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  1. #1501
    Registered User fordbwee52's Avatar
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    Thanks for a good advice sir.

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    Hello davisj3537,

    Just started this program last week and wanted to know if I should cut or bulk. I been working out since the beginning of the year but with no set program and doing different types of workouts with brosplits, cardio and sports just to burn fat. I want to start getting stronger/bigger on a set program that has progression but also want to get rid of my belly fat and look more toned. I was noticing I was getting too skinny a few weeks ago and started to eat more and start this program.

    I am currently around 164 lbs 6ft and around 13% bf.

    I was planning on eating 2400 calories and see how I progress from there.


    Last weeks work out in lbs, going to increase weights and start week 2 tomorrow.

    Squat - 95
    Bench - 125
    Pendlay row - 95
    Reverse flies - 10
    Calf Raises - 185
    Tricep pulldown 40

    Front squat -65
    Incline bench -105
    RDL - 95
    Lat pulldown -115
    Abs - 10 lbs holding behind
    curls - 50 lbs

  3. #1503
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    At a guesstimated 13% bf I'd be bulking if I were you, but everyone is different. Slow bulk (1lb per week) for 6 months and then cut for 2-3.

  4. #1504
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    im on a surplus of 250 calories is that good enough?

  5. #1505
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kieran1127 View Post
    im on a surplus of 250 calories is that good enough?
    I'd say it is too slow. You'd only gain 12lbs in six months. You should shoot for 25lbs in that time frame IMO.

    That would be ok for an advanced or intemediate lifter, but you are a beginner if you're on this program. You are supposed to grow very fast.

  6. #1506
    Registered User Wicked12's Avatar
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    Hi,

    kind of a weird question but I thought maybe someone has had the same problem or knows how to solve it.

    Recently I've been frequently (almost always) getting headaches during my workouts and it kinda sucks. It's in my forehead and goes away quite fast when I'm done. I've had the same issue when I was practicing my handstand a while ago, if that is any useful information.

    I'm not sure what could be the problem, maybe breathing? I think I'm drinking enough.

    Cheers

  7. #1507
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    Originally Posted by Wicked12 View Post
    Hi,

    kind of a weird question but I thought maybe someone has had the same problem or knows how to solve it.

    Recently I've been frequently (almost always) getting headaches during my workouts and it kinda sucks. It's in my forehead and goes away quite fast when I'm done. I've had the same issue when I was practicing my handstand a while ago, if that is any useful information.

    I'm not sure what could be the problem, maybe breathing? I think I'm drinking enough.

    Cheers
    How much are you drinking? I know you might think it's enough, but the majority of people go day to day dehydrated.

    The recommended "2 litres a day" is bollocks, that is for someone who is incredibly sedentary. I personally drink around 5-6 litres daily and 3-4 on a rest day. So i'd aim for at least 4.5 (gallon) litres a day.

    Are you taking a pre-workout? Some pre's may give you that, I found that with C4 I'd end up getting a migraine/headache about half way through my training. Had to go for a non stim for a while.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165717061

  8. #1508
    Lift & Code Cranz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wicked12 View Post
    Hi,

    kind of a weird question but I thought maybe someone has had the same problem or knows how to solve it.

    Recently I've been frequently (almost always) getting headaches during my workouts and it kinda sucks. It's in my forehead and goes away quite fast when I'm done. I've had the same issue when I was practicing my handstand a while ago, if that is any useful information.

    I'm not sure what could be the problem, maybe breathing? I think I'm drinking enough.

    Cheers
    Are you breathing properly or taking any pre workouts? What is your pre nutrition as well? Does it happen right into the training or towards the end?

    I think you should post more details, but I'd quite honestly tell you that the best advice is...consult a proper doctor. it's very hard to diagnose something you can't see.
    Any post I make should not be taken seriously.

  9. #1509
    Lift & Code Cranz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kieran1127 View Post
    im on a surplus of 250 calories is that good enough?
    Based on experience I wouldn't do that.

    I am no more a fan of very strict 250 surplus diets, I wasted time on my last bulk trying to be as lean as possible, it was a mistake. Next one I'm definitely shooting for 500, exact 500 though, no need to add more.
    Any post I make should not be taken seriously.

  10. #1510
    Registered User Wicked12's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. I drink about 3 litres of Water a day plus a litre of milk/juice. I don't take any pre workouts, I'm having musli with a banana in the morning, then go lift two hours later or so.
    It usually doesn't appear right in the beginning, more like half way through. I THINK I'm breathing correctly, that is, breathing in before a rep, holding it in (at least for squats and DLs, for other lifts I might breathe out a little), finish rep, breathe out, repeat.

  11. #1511
    Registered User kimilkwon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    At a guesstimated 13% bf I'd be bulking if I were you, but everyone is different. Slow bulk (1lb per week) for 6 months and then cut for 2-3.
    Thanks for the reply. Do you think it is ok to have bulk and cut cycles every 3 months?

  12. #1512
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimilkwon View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Do you think it is ok to have bulk and cut cycles every 3 months?
    Sounds like a lot of wasted time to me. Unless you are really overweight you should bulk for the first 6 months of lifting. You should easily gain 10-15lbs of muscle in that time frame.




    Wicked, funny you ask this as I'm sitting next to a dr right now. He says going to the dr could take you a LONG time to figure out the real problem...numerous visits and things to try and then finally getting a referral to neurologist.

    He says to make a diary about the headaches. When did they start? Any changes around that time? Has your diet changed? Caffeine, water...etc. Do they come at the same time every day? What causes them? Are they in the back/front/side of the head? Are they on both sides of your head or just one? Do you have congestion or runny eyes with them? Be detailed. What did you eat the days you got headaches, how much/what did you drink...etc.

    Try some diet/fluid changes and see if you can find the problem on your own. If you can't then take your massive list of notes to the dr. and ask for a neurologist referral. Hopefully all that sh*t saves you 8 months worth of the typical dr run around.
    Last edited by davisj3537; 08-11-2014 at 11:32 PM.

  13. #1513
    Registered User we1ghtlift3r's Avatar
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    Just wanted to post in here and thank davis for this awesome program. Been bulking on this for 10 weeks and my lifts have increased like crazy. Going back to school, but gonna keep bulking on this program until like December/January and then think about cutting. Also I've really started to love pendlay rows. Wasn't a fan of them when I first started, but now that I've gotten used to them, they are definitely a fantastic exercise, and I don't really know why more people don't do them. Anyways my lifts are in the sig. Squat and deadlift have shot up. Bench has definitely been slower. Had to deload at 115, but now I'm up to 125 which is great. Never been able to do above 115 for 3x5 until now so its great. Gains are definitely getting slower, but hope to keep increasing my lifts through to December

  14. #1514
    Registered User fordbwee52's Avatar
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    I run the first cycle today.

    These are my log and I have some short video for you to comment my form. Give me some advice please.

    Squats : 70kg 3x5
    Bench : 60kg 3x5
    Pendlay : 40kg 3x8
    Facepulls : 10kg 3x10
    Pushdown : 15kg 2x10

    75 kg BW with around 20% bf, 171cm height

    Last edited by fordbwee52; 08-12-2014 at 07:38 AM.

  15. #1515
    #tallpeopleproblems unstrong's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fordbwee52 View Post
    I run the first cycle today.

    These are my log and I have some short video for you to comment my form. Give me some advice please.

    Squats : 70kg 3x5
    Bench : 60kg 3x5
    Pendlay : 40kg 3x8
    Facepulls : 10kg 3x10
    Pushdown : 15kg 2x10

    ::: I can't post my link. Don't have any idea to share my video to all you guys.
    Did you upload to youtube? You can do embeds without 50 posts using the [youtube ] and [/youtube ] tags (remove spaces) and then putting in the middle everything after the equal sign.
    My log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=166030441

  16. #1516
    Registered User kimilkwon's Avatar
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    For the reverse flies, do I increase the reps by 2 each week before increasing weight after a month or keep it at 3x10?

    Also for Abs. Can I change up the type of workouts such as weighted sit ups and then weighted leg raises. If so should I do it every other week or every other month?
    Last edited by kimilkwon; 08-12-2014 at 06:24 AM.

  17. #1517
    Registered User fordbwee52's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by unstrong View Post
    Did you upload to youtube? You can do embeds without 50 posts using the [youtube ] and [/youtube ] tags (remove spaces) and then putting in the middle everything after the equal sign.
    Thanks guys. This is my form check video. Maybe it looks unclear because this is my first time in recording workout form.


  18. #1518
    lagging quads connorpat1995's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fordbwee52 View Post
    Thanks guys. This is my form check video. Maybe it looks unclear because this is my first time in recording workout form.
    The bar is supposed to come out of a dead stop on the floor with Pendlays
    log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165742981

    nothing but the basics

  19. #1519
    Registered User fordbwee52's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by connorpat1995 View Post
    The bar is supposed to come out of a dead stop on the floor with Pendlays
    Thanks Connorpat1995. can I make some base to place a bar higher? because with that 10kg plates it seem to low for me.

  20. #1520
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    Originally Posted by fordbwee52 View Post
    Thanks Connorpat1995. can I make some base to place a bar higher? because with that 10kg plates it seem to low for me.
    I've seen people put them on top of a pair of plates sitting on the ground. So long as your back is about parallel to the ground and your arms extend all the way out at the bottom, you have a full range of motion.
    log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165742981

    nothing but the basics

  21. #1521
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by we1ghtlift3r View Post
    Just wanted to post in here and thank davis for this awesome program. Been bulking on this for 10 weeks and my lifts have increased like crazy. Going back to school, but gonna keep bulking on this program until like December/January and then think about cutting. Also I've really started to love pendlay rows. Wasn't a fan of them when I first started, but now that I've gotten used to them, they are definitely a fantastic exercise, and I don't really know why more people don't do them. Anyways my lifts are in the sig. Squat and deadlift have shot up. Bench has definitely been slower. Had to deload at 115, but now I'm up to 125 which is great. Never been able to do above 115 for 3x5 until now so its great. Gains are definitely getting slower, but hope to keep increasing my lifts through to December
    Great progress bud. Thanks for the update. Up your calories a bit. 6lbs in 10 weeks is a little low.
    Originally Posted by kimilkwon View Post
    For the reverse flies, do I increase the reps by 2 each week before increasing weight after a month or keep it at 3x10?

    Also for Abs. Can I change up the type of workouts such as weighted sit ups and then weighted leg raises. If so should I do it every other week or every other month?
    Leave it the same. Pause at the top of the movement.

  22. #1522
    Registered User Wicked12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    Wicked, funny you ask this as I'm sitting next to a dr right now. He says going to the dr could take you a LONG time to figure out the real problem...numerous visits and things to try and then finally getting a referral to neurologist.

    He says to make a diary about the headaches. When did they start? Any changes around that time? Has your diet changed? Caffeine, water...etc. Do they come at the same time every day? What causes them? Are they in the back/front/side of the head? Are they on both sides of your head or just one? Do you have congestion or runny eyes with them? Be detailed. What did you eat the days you got headaches, how much/what did you drink...etc.

    Try some diet/fluid changes and see if you can find the problem on your own. If you can't then take your massive list of notes to the dr. and ask for a neurologist referral. Hopefully all that sh*t saves you 8 months worth of the typical dr run around.
    Thanks for the thourough reply man. I figured that it'd be hard to find the cause...

    I'll record my Bench the next time I do them. I failed and stalled at 57.5 a couple weeks ago and now after working back up I just did 60KG yesterday without failing, which really surprised me. Form probably wasn't amazing though. I'll post or message you the link.

  23. #1523
    Registered User nicvannic's Avatar
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    Hello, I started a clean bulk using this routine and it's working well.

    I really tried not to modify it but I have some form problems with the pendlay row (I don't even like it...) so I decided to replace it with a dumbell row (one arm row so it's easier on the low back) also decided to replace the front squat with a leg curl so I don't squat every workout (finding faster to progress this way). I also decided to increase the weight on my squat/dl by 2kg every week instead of 4kg, this is because I couldn't get all my 5 reps even on my first set while I can barely complete all the 3 sets with the 2kg increase. The progress will be slower but atleast it's going to be steady.

    This is what I'm doing:

    A

    squat 3x5 64kg
    bench press 3x5 54kg
    dumbell row 3x8 going to start this on saturday
    reverse flyes 2x10
    smith machine calf raises
    triceps pushdown

    B

    romanian dl 3x5 64kg
    oh press 3x5 34kg
    seated leg curl 3x8 30kg
    overhand wide grip lat pulldown 3x8 50kg (going to replace this with pullups when I'll have the strenght)
    abs
    ez bar curl

    Is this still ok or I'm doing something wrong? Thanks
    Last edited by nicvannic; 08-13-2014 at 06:09 AM.

  24. #1524
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    connorpat1995 is offline
    Originally Posted by nicvannic View Post
    decided to replace the front squat with a leg curl so I don't squat every workout (finding faster to progress this way). I also decided to increase the weight on my squat/dl by 2kg every week instead of 4kg
    Something doesn't add up there...
    By "clean bulk", how much of a surplus are we talking?

    If you fail a set, it's just a stall; it's part of the program. Continue with that weight for that day and try the next time. If you stall twice, reset. You'll do better with the fast progression + resets than progressing at half the rate
    log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165742981

    nothing but the basics

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    nicvannic is offline
    Originally Posted by connorpat1995 View Post
    Something doesn't add up there...
    By "clean bulk", how much of a surplus are we talking?

    If you fail a set, it's just a stall; it's part of the program. Continue with that weight for that day and try the next time. If you stall twice, reset. You'll do better with the fast progression + resets than progressing at half the rate
    250 cal plus, I was bulking with 2800 cal/day some months ago but ended up fat, had to waste 3 months cutting down. My tdde is around 2000kcal (tested).

    I don't think getting 250 cal more is going to change much, except getting me fat. I'd rather progress slower anyway and keep my form ok. When I was doing stronglifts 5x5 I kept stalling around 54 kg and I was eating well above my tdee...

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    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    250 cals is almost a waste of time for a beginner. You replaced a quad movement with a ham one. You failed your set 2 weeks in because you started way too heavy.

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    nicvannic is offline
    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    250 cals is almost a waste of time for a beginner. You replaced a quad movement with a ham one. You failed your set 2 weeks in because you started way too heavy.
    I was doing 56x12 with no problems before switching (while on a calories deficit), and I started this program with 60kg...The moment I tried to do 64kg I failed on the first set, so I just did 62kg, then the next week 64kg and I managed to complete every set. I don't think I can personally increase every week by 4kg, that means I'm going to squat around 100kgx5 in 2 months.

    I don't know how people can manage to get to intermediate level in 4 months, I have no sport background (I'm 66kgx180cm, small bones, never done legs before) and when I started with the empty bar I was already struggling, even on a 5x5 and a 500+ calories surplus I started having problems at 40kg. I kept deloading but only managed to get fat. My form is good too...

    I already tried a big caloric surplus while increasing every workout and it didn't work, I'd rather take the slower route. I'm looking for a 250gr body weight increase every week, I'm going to adjust my calories accordingly if needed.

    You are right about swapping a quad movement with a ham one, I misunderstood the op, If I'm correct the choice is between romanian deadlifts/front squats and standard deadlifts/leg curls right?

    Like this:

    B
    standard deadlift 3x5
    oh press 3x5
    seated leg curl 3x8
    overhand wide grip lat pulldown 3x8
    abs
    ez bar curl

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    connorpat1995 is offline
    Originally Posted by nicvannic View Post
    If I'm correct the choice is between romanian deadlifts/front squats and standard deadlifts/leg curls right?
    You got it

    You started too heavy on squats. You're supposed to start well below your max and ramp it up quickly. Your slow progress thus far is an issue of mindset. Leave your ego at the door and start light
    log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165742981

    nothing but the basics

  29. #1529
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    Hey davisj, great routine, been running it for just over 3 months and this is my progress so far:
    (lbs)
    dl 132 -> 231
    squat 120 - > 187
    bench 105 - > 170
    incline bench 100 -> 143 (2 months)
    pendlays 88 -> 121

    As you can see, my bench progress is alot faster than anything else, and it feels like I am really making good progress, my squat and my dl progress is reallllly slow atm, and I have been pretty much stuck here for just over a month (did a deload) and after the deload and 2 resets I still can't increase the weights.

    I have very tight / inflexible hip flexors and feel like this really hinders me, if you think this could be a cause for the constant stalling, how should i approach the progression from now on? (im doing alot of stretching and flexibility exercises at the moment to try and loosen up my hip flexors)

    (500 calorie surplus, and I am gaining weight)

    Thanks.

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    nicvannic is offline
    Originally Posted by connorpat1995 View Post
    You got it

    You started too heavy on squats. You're supposed to start well below your max and ramp it up quickly. Your slow progress thus far is an issue of mindset. Leave your ego at the door and start light
    Yea but I've been doing squats for months and it seems no sense to deload just because I'm changing the rep range (I was doing allpro while cutting), it's not like i'm fatigued; if I deload now to 54kg and come back to increase 4kg every week I guarentee you I'm going to stall again, I already tried it when I started and it didn't work for me.

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