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  1. #121
    Registered User starx6673's Avatar
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    Heya,

    Needed a nice beginner routine that wasn't boring, so I started on Fierce 5 today. Had a good workout. As I train at home I replaced the Pendlay Rows with a normal BOR and the tricep pressdowns with overhead extensions.

    Thanks for creating this!

    Cheers!

  2. #122
    Registered User CagedInSanity's Avatar
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    Hey! So this routine looks perfect for me, just started it today (the simple version) starting with workout B. got a great pump going and feel properly exhausted haha.

    So I have made most of the big beginner mistakes in my months of lifting but was noob enough to make progress anyway. I've been learning more and more and improving my workouts but it's about frickin time I get on a real program. This is my past:

    I tried a ppl split one time but didn't like it, I think it was too advanced for me and it just didn't feel right... Too much volume per workout. Quit almost immediately.

    Kept planning on doing all pros beginner routine but never actually started it because I wasn't excited about it AT ALL!
    Progression scheme seemed really low and it was the exact same workout every time.

    Most of the Time though I just did my own thing, which was a constantly evolving bastard child of bro split and ppl, and it definitely wasn't ideal.

    My squat and deadlift are pathetic compared to a lot of my other exercises because I neglected them until a couple weeks ago. For example today on workout B I was dead lifting 130 and OHP 90. Also I think during my randomness workouts I neglected my rear delts and I think they're lagging. Will this stuff correct itself if I work on your split or is there anything you'd change?

    Ps I'm 195 pounds started bulking late sept. Starting around 165-170 lbs. I'm 6'1". Someone told me I should start cutting but I was hoping to do another month or two to bulk and add strength to those big compound exercises first gain another 5-10 lbs. What do you think?
    Last edited by CagedInSanity; 01-30-2014 at 02:54 PM.

  3. #123
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    Originally Posted by starx6673 View Post
    Heya,

    Needed a nice beginner routine that wasn't boring, so I started on Fierce 5 today. Had a good workout. As I train at home I replaced the Pendlay Rows with a normal BOR and the tricep pressdowns with overhead extensions.

    Thanks for creating this!

    Cheers!
    Sounds good bud. Good luck. The more you lean over with BOR the better it is gonna stimulate your upper back, which was the point behind pendlay rows. Try to get a hybrid between the two if you can't do the pendlays for whatever reason. Wide grip with elbows flared.
    Originally Posted by CagedInSanity View Post
    Hey! So this routine looks perfect for me, just started it today (the simple version) starting with workout B. got a great pump going and feel properly exhausted haha.

    So I have made most of the big beginner mistakes in my months of lifting but was noob enough to make progress anyway. I've been learning more and more and improving my workouts but it's about frickin time I get on a real program. This is my past:

    I tried a ppl split one time but didn't like it, I think it was too advanced for me and it just didn't feel right... Too much volume per workout. Quit almost immediately.

    Kept planning on doing all pros beginner routine but never actually started it because I wasn't excited about it AT ALL!
    Progression scheme seemed really low and it was the exact same workout every time.

    Most of the Time though I just did my own thing, which was a constantly evolving bastard child of bro split and ppl, and it definitely wasn't ideal.

    My squat and deadlift are pathetic compared to a lot of my other exercises because I neglected them until a couple weeks ago. For example today on workout B I was dead lifting 130 and OHP 90. Also I think during my randomness workouts I neglected my rear delts and I think they're lagging. Will this stuff correct itself if I work on your split or is there anything you'd change?

    Ps I'm 195 pounds started bulking late sept. Starting around 165-170 lbs. I'm 6'1". Someone told me I should start cutting but I was hoping to do another month or two to bulk and add strength to those big compound exercises first gain another 5-10 lbs. What do you think?
    Sounds like you are headed in the right direction man. This program will definitely put some size on your rear delts and help to even out any imbalances you may have developed from pressing a lot. This program will work much better for you if you continue to bulk. Slow bulk, seems like your best bet.

    BTW your deadlift and squat will absolutely skyrocket on this program. I'm looking forward to a progress report in the coming weeks/months.

  4. #124
    Registered User CagedInSanity's Avatar
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    Can I ask why you chose pens lay rows over bent over barbell rows? I have been doing lots of bent over rows, the reason being that they maintain constant tension which from what I've read would be better for size. I was originally thinking they'd be better for strength because you can use higher weights at 45 degrees? Is it the Deload and having to pick it up from the ground that makes it more beneficial or what?

  5. #125
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CagedInSanity View Post
    Can I ask why you chose pens lay rows over bent over barbell rows? I have been doing lots of bent over rows, the reason being that they maintain constant tension which from what I've read would be better for size. I was originally thinking they'd be better for strength because you can use higher weights at 45 degrees? Is it the Deload and having to pick it up from the ground that makes it more beneficial or what?
    It works more upper back than a BOR. Balancing upper back/rear delts vs. anterior delts/pecs is super important for shoulder/upper back health. The BOR is a good exercise, but the pendlay row is in place for good reason. The video in the original post covers some of it.

  6. #126
    Registered User CagedInSanity's Avatar
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    Sorry for all the questions but I got more lol

    So you say it's ok to do cardio and recommend it on off days, and you also say don't add any extra lifts. Dif you mean that on workout days or in general? Say if I do cardio at he gym on a rest day, would it be okay to do light bi, tri and ab work?

    I'm asking because My friend (who's more experiences than me) said that your arms and abs recover really quickly so you could work them out lots if you want.

  7. #127
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    Just coming off a deload on AP workout. Gonna start this next week.

    I haven't done supersets before (4 months lifting now).

    "Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset" ....how does this work? I start off with calf extensions and do 15 reps but without taking rest, switch to tricep pressdowns and go back and do one more set of each?

    Looking forward to this program as I was getting 'bored' with AP (excellent program but I wanted a change of pace/variety).

    Thanks!!
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  8. #128
    Registered User GymFreak25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    Just coming off a deload on AP workout. Gonna start this next week.

    I haven't done supersets before (4 months lifting now).

    "Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset" ....how does this work? I start off with calf extensions and do 15 reps but without taking rest, switch to tricep pressdowns and go back and do one more set of each?

    Looking forward to this program as I was getting 'bored' with AP (excellent program but I wanted a change of pace/variety).

    Thanks!!
    One set of calf extensions, then immediately one set of tricep pressdowns, rest for a minute, repeat.

  9. #129
    Registered User GymFreak25's Avatar
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    Hey, since i can only add 10 pounds to the face pulls and lat pulldowns, i was thinking of adding 2 extra reps on the week that i won't be adding any weight so i am at least progressing in reps for that week, then once i add the 10 pounds the following week, i will drop down to 8 reps again, what do you think about this idea?.

  10. #130
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CagedInSanity View Post
    Sorry for all the questions but I got more lol

    So you say it's ok to do cardio and recommend it on off days, and you also say don't add any extra lifts. Dif you mean that on workout days or in general? Say if I do cardio at he gym on a rest day, would it be okay to do light bi, tri and ab work?

    I'm asking because My friend (who's more experiences than me) said that your arms and abs recover really quickly so you could work them out lots if you want.
    Don't do that. Your friend is misinformed.
    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    Just coming off a deload on AP workout. Gonna start this next week.

    I haven't done supersets before (4 months lifting now).

    "Calf extensions 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset" ....how does this work? I start off with calf extensions and do 15 reps but without taking rest, switch to tricep pressdowns and go back and do one more set of each?

    Looking forward to this program as I was getting 'bored' with AP (excellent program but I wanted a change of pace/variety).

    Thanks!!
    Exactly. You basically don't take a rest. You move back and forth between the exercises until you complete the required sets. You are getting a rest for each muscle while doing the other exercise.
    Originally Posted by GymFreak25 View Post
    Hey, since i can only add 10 pounds to the face pulls and lat pulldowns, i was thinking of adding 2 extra reps on the week that i won't be adding any weight so i am at least progressing in reps for that week, then once i add the 10 pounds the following week, i will drop down to 8 reps again, what do you think about this idea?.
    Not a bad idea if you don't like putting a 5lb weight on the weight stack.

  11. #131
    Registered User GymFreak25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    Don't do that. Your friend is misinformed.

    Exactly. You basically don't take a rest. You move back and forth between the exercises until you complete the required sets. You are getting a rest for each muscle while doing the other exercise.

    Not a bad idea if you don't like putting a 5lb weight on the weight stack.
    Alright thanks, and its not that i don't like puting 5lb weight on the stack, its just that there is no space to put them in, i'll just do the reps thing until i am able to get my some of those adaptable plates.

  12. #132
    Texan JC20010's Avatar
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    Hi guys, I wanted to come in and share my story and see if yall thought this would be a good program for me.

    I started out a little over 2 years ago at 275 pounds and am now down to 150 pounds but I lost a large portion of muscle mass at the same time as fat as I didn't realize the importance of lifting in the beginning. Now I am in solid cardio shape (this for some reason has been my primary focus) and I have been doing a 5 day split for my weight lifting for almost a year now but I have just been spinning my wheels as I haven't been eating enough to see any progress at all. I weigh all of my food and know my maintenance level and have calculated my calories needed to build muscle. As you can see in my profile pic, with the 100 plus pounds I lost I have a lot of loose skin in my lower abdomen and anytime I gain weight, that's straight where it seems to go. For this reason and the fact I was obese my entire life up until the point I began my weight loss and fitness journey, I have been terrified to gain any weight. I am however prepared to suck it up and finally pack on some weight as I am now sick of being weak for my size and having very little muscle definition. I thought that I would try to be fully dedicated to a weight lifting program as opposed to running so much and focusing on cardio. I started out this program yesterday with day A1 that focused on size and has you doing 10 reps of each exercise, it felt good but is a lot less than I was doing in my 5 day split. The thing is even though I have been lifting and doing that 5 day split for a while, I saw no progress and feel this program will help give me a strong foundation since I will now be eating at a surplus i'm 5'10'', 150 pounds, 22 years old, moderate-heavy activity level and calculated a little bit over 2700 calories to gain. Thanks everyone!
    Last edited by JC20010; 02-01-2014 at 08:45 AM. Reason: add info

  13. #133
    I'm your huckleberry! davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JC20010 View Post
    Hi guys, I wanted to come in and share my story and see if yall thought this would be a good program for me.

    I started out a little over 2 years ago at 275 pounds and am now down to 150 pounds but I lost a large portion of muscle mass at the same time as fat as I didn't realize the importance of lifting in the beginning. Now I am in solid cardio shape (this for some reason has been my primary focus) and I have been doing a 5 day split for my weight lifting for almost a year now but I have just been spinning my wheels as I haven't been eating enough to see any progress at all. I weigh all of my food and know my maintenance level and have calculated my calories needed to build muscle. As you can see in my profile pic, with the 100 plus pounds I lost I have a lot of loose skin in my lower abdomen and anytime I gain weight, that's straight where it seems to go. For this reason and the fact I was obese my entire life up until the point I began my weight loss and fitness journey, I have been terrified to gain any weight. I am however prepared to suck it up and finally pack on some weight as I am now sick of being weak for my size and having very little muscle definition. I thought that I would try to be fully dedicated to a weight lifting program as opposed to running so much and focusing on cardio. I started out this program yesterday with day A1 that focused on size and has you doing 10 reps of each exercise, it felt good but is a lot less than I was doing in my 5 day split. The thing is even though I have been lifting and doing that 5 day split for a while, I saw no progress and feel this program will help give me a strong foundation since I will now be eating at a surplus i'm 5'10'', 150 pounds, 22 years old, moderate-heavy activity level and calculated a little bit over 2700 calories to gain. Thanks everyone!
    Sounds like it might be a great fit for you. I understand it can be hard to gain weight after that. I also understand it can not seem like enough after running a 5 day split. You'd be surprised how effective low volume is.

    I had typed out a few accomplishments of mine and a story of how I reduced my volume after reaching those goals. Despite being in an intermediate to advanced lifter at the time I still made better progress on low volume. I deleted the whole thing cuz it just sounded like some weird bragging kind of post. I hope this shortened version still helps to show that low volume isn't only for beginners. I'm currently running low volume and I'm making excellent gains.

    Give the program a shot for a few months while in a calorie surplus and you'll be happy with the results. I'm sure.

  14. #134
    Texan JC20010's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    Sounds like it might be a great fit for you. I understand it can be hard to gain weight after that. I also understand it can not seem like enough after running a 5 day split. You'd be surprised how effective low volume is.

    I had typed out a few accomplishments of mine and a story of how I reduced my volume after reaching those goals. Despite being in an intermediate to advanced lifter at the time I still made better progress on low volume. I deleted the whole thing cuz it just sounded like some weird bragging kind of post. I hope this shortened version still helps to show that low volume isn't only for beginners. I'm currently running low volume and I'm making excellent gains.

    Give the program a shot for a few months while in a calorie surplus and you'll be happy with the results. I'm sure.
    Thanks a lot for the insight davisj, I am really looking forward to progressing with the program. I created a log as I follow the workout routine, but unfortunately I can't post links yet... Anyways thanks for creating the routine and hopefully you can check out my log from time to time and provide any pointers or knowledge you see necessary.

  15. #135
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    Originally Posted by JC20010 View Post
    Thanks a lot for the insight davisj, I am really looking forward to progressing with the program. I created a log as I follow the workout routine, but unfortunately I can't post links yet... Anyways thanks for creating the routine and hopefully you can check out my log from time to time and provide any pointers or knowledge you see necessary.
    I'll scope it out bud. Good luck.

  16. #136
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    Davis (or any others):

    I workout at home so have limited equipment.....weider bench, loose weights+bar, dumbbells, etc. I use the bench as my squat rack as well.

    What can I substitute the following with (keeping in mind the equipment I have currently)?

    OHP 3x10 === > ???
    Lat Pulldowns 3x10 ==> ???
    Leg Curls 3x1 ====> ??

    I know you pointed out there are no substitutions but still....

    Thx again, mate.
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  17. #137
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    I have similar equipment to you.
    I'd do the ohp as you have a bar and weights which is all you need.
    I was thinking that doing dumbell leg curls would be a fine substitution for leg curls.
    see here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfCpfxb36s8

    Not sure about the lat pulldowns. my initial thoughts would be pullups but I can't do them myself and don't know what to sub in for it.

    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    Davis (or any others):

    I workout at home so have limited equipment.....weider bench, loose weights+bar, dumbbells, etc. I use the bench as my squat rack as well.

    What can I substitute the following with (keeping in mind the equipment I have currently)?

    OHP 3x10 === > ???
    Lat Pulldowns 3x10 ==> ???
    Leg Curls 3x1 ====> ??

    I know you pointed out there are no substitutions but still....

    Thx again, mate.
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  18. #138
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    I'm a little busy ATM, but I will get back to you about these questions.

  19. #139
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    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    Davis (or any others):

    I workout at home so have limited equipment.....weider bench, loose weights+bar, dumbbells, etc. I use the bench as my squat rack as well.

    What can I substitute the following with (keeping in mind the equipment I have currently)?

    OHP 3x10 === > ???
    Lat Pulldowns 3x10 ==> ???
    Leg Curls 3x1 ====> ??

    I know you pointed out there are no substitutions but still....

    Thx again, mate.
    You can do OHP with the bar you bench with.

    Maybe do inverted rows instead of lat pulldowns?

    Glute Ham raises with barbell, google it, or do RDLs
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    This is a toss up. Both Jason and cardassian offered good subs. If you don't like the DB leg curl then you have a few choices to make. Swap deadlifts for a front squat and then swap the leg curls for a SLDL, RDL or Good morning. Chin ups are a good sub for the lat pulldowns if you can do them. If you can't do them then you'll need to do assisted chin ups or negatives. You can assist yourself with a chair or bands.

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    Registered User mrBlue2's Avatar
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    I've been training consistently for 6 months and gained 40kg in deadlift, 45kg in squat, 20kg in bench and 10kg in ohead press. Can I use this routine? You mentioned you recommend it to people with <6months experience and I just reached 6months hha... want to switch to fierce5 because I can't train using my old routine anymore. Thanks!!

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    Thanks Jason/Cardas and Davis. Yes..those are totally doable substitutes. I 'sampled' these just in the morning today and they'll do the job!

    Many thanks again guys!
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    Originally Posted by mrBlue2 View Post
    I've been training consistently for 6 months and gained 40kg in deadlift, 45kg in squat, 20kg in bench and 10kg in ohead press. Can I use this routine? You mentioned you recommend it to people with <6months experience and I just reached 6months hha... want to switch to fierce5 because I can't train using my old routine anymore. Thanks!!
    You can certainly give it a shot man. You may want to cut the progression in half. It is hard to predict someone's ability to handle the progression after they've been training for several months. Try it for two months and if you aren't seeing results then pick up an intermediate program.
    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    Thanks Jason/Cardas and Davis. Yes..those are totally doable substitutes. I 'sampled' these just in the morning today and they'll do the job!

    Many thanks again guys!
    Good to hear man.

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    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    Thanks Jason/Cardas and Davis. Yes..those are totally doable substitutes. I 'sampled' these just in the morning today and they'll do the job!

    Many thanks again guys!
    Good to hear that!
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    Hey Dave,

    Been lifting for 6 months . Routine hopped first 3 months , then started PHAT and been making good progress. I did lower the volume quite a bit though, but workouts are fun.

    I bench (had rc issues for while)185 lb x5 -- up from 80lb start, bb row 170lbx5 , squat 240lbx 5, and deadlift 250 (had lower back problems for while).

    With aesthetics being my primary goal woukd this be an ideal routine for me? Or stick with PHAT?
    Last edited by tekno17; 02-03-2014 at 02:01 AM.
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    Originally Posted by tekno17 View Post
    Hey Dave,

    Been lifting for 6 months . Routine hopped first 3 months , then started PHAT and been making good progress. I did lower the volume quite a bit though, but workouts are fun.

    I bench (had rc issues for while)185 lb x5 -- up from 80lb start, bb row 170lbx5 , squat 240lbx 5, and deadlift 250 (had lower back problems for while).

    With aesthetics being my primary goal woukd this be an ideal routine for me? Or stick with PHAT?
    If PHAT is working, and it sounds like it is, then I'd stick with it. I don't think you'd be able to run this program for very long without stalling.

  27. #147
    Registered User NiceGuyTom's Avatar
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    Going to start this program today. I like the look of it. The volume adjustments make sense to me, a 3 day program works for how busy I am atm, and I like the fact that there are smart assistance lifts in there as well. I also don't think it is as vanilla / boring as 5x5 or SS... Since I work out from home I'm having to adjust some exercises so I'm just looking for feedback on what I'm thinking of changing...

    Calf Extensions into Calf Raises
    Tri Pressdowns into Dumbbell Tri Kickbacks
    Lat Pull Downs into Pull Ups
    Leg Curls into Glute Ham Raises on a GHD

    Cheers,
    Tom

  28. #148
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    Originally Posted by NiceGuyTom View Post
    Going to start this program today. I like the look of it. The volume adjustments make sense to me, a 3 day program works for how busy I am atm, and I like the fact that there are smart assistance lifts in there as well. I also don't think it is as vanilla / boring as 5x5 or SS... Since I work out from home I'm having to adjust some exercises so I'm just looking for feedback on what I'm thinking of changing...

    Calf Extensions into Calf Raises
    Tri Pressdowns into Dumbbell Tri Kickbacks
    Lat Pull Downs into Pull Ups
    Leg Curls into Glute Ham Raises on a GHD

    Cheers,
    Tom
    All looks good to me bud. Good luck to ya man.

  29. #149
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    All looks good to me bud. Good luck to ya man.

    \m/

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    Hey, if i were to do chin ups instead of the pulldowns, how many reps of bodyweight would you recommend before adding weight?, then how many reps before adding weight after?.

    Also, would dips be a good sub for the pushdowns?.

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