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  1. #91
    Registered User of Peace MaximosJ's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GymFreak25 View Post
    Wait so your saying that i can remove those 10 pound plates and replace them with 5 pound ones?, i've never seen those type of plates before though, they look like this:



    Do you know where they sell them at?.
    You can get "adapter plates" like these: http://www.amazon.com/Weight-Stack-A.../dp/B001R1XOW2

    You just set them on top of the stack. They don't all look like that^, though.

    My first post ITT (if I remember right), so want to also say it's a great program, OP. Been lurking this thread so far.
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  2. #92
    288 Strongbow's Avatar
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    Getting back into things after a long break due to work. I didn't like a lot of the "beginner" routines on here for one reason or another but I like the look of this one.

    Going to start this routine this week!

    I tried doing Allpros but as someone who has worked out a lot in the past it was just way too slow for me and I got bored.
    Last edited by Strongbow; 01-27-2014 at 09:07 AM.

  3. #93
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GymFreak25 View Post
    Wait so your saying that i can remove those 10 pound plates and replace them with 5 pound ones?, i've never seen those type of plates before though, they look like this:



    Do you know where they sell them at?.
    Originally Posted by VanillaBearB View Post
    I think what he's trying to say is get a 5lb db or 5lb plate and put it on top of it.
    This is what I meant. Generally a 5lb plate put on top doesn't move anywhere if you aren't throwing weights around like crazy. You could loop it around the weight stack with a belt or something if you are worried about it falling off.
    Originally Posted by MaximosJ View Post
    You can get "adapter plates" like these: http://www.amazon.com/Weight-Stack-A.../dp/B001R1XOW2

    You just set them on top of the stack. They don't all look like that^, though.

    My first post ITT (if I remember right), so want to also say it's a great program, OP. Been lurking this thread so far.
    This is a great long term option.
    Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
    Getting back into things after a long break due to work. I didn't like a lot of the "beginner" routines on here for one reason or another but I like the look of this one.

    Going to start this routine this week!

    I tried doing Allpros but as someone who has worked out a lot in the past it was just way too slow for me and I got bored.
    Nice to have you on board bud. As someone coming back from a layoff, you will increase strength super fast. I'm excited to see your results.

  4. #94
    Merry Christmas, Bob. cnh57811's Avatar
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    Why 3x5 on deads instead of the 'standard' 1x5? Do you think cns fatigue is overexaggerated on other programs?

  5. #95
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    Thanks for your responses fellas.

  6. #96
    Registered User GymFreak25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cnh57811 View Post
    Why 3x5 on deads instead of the 'standard' 1x5? Do you think cns fatigue is overexaggerated on other programs?
    Because your not squatting and deadlifting on the same day, as in SS.

  7. #97
    Registered User Bluerex's Avatar
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    I think I am going to make the switch over from strong lift to your program. I like the advanced option 2 with the variation in reps, just to change it up a little since I have been doing 5x5 for several months now. I am also going to try and cut down calories a little since I plumped up on SL and see how it goes.

    One question, what is your opinion on seated OHP vs standing? I fully understand you want us to use standing, but do to low ceilings in my basement where I workout, standing isn't an option. I have been doing seated without the aid of the back support, but was wondering if something should be added or if you could think of another option. I have thought about doing them from my knees.

  8. #98
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cnh57811 View Post
    Why 3x5 on deads instead of the 'standard' 1x5? Do you think cns fatigue is overexaggerated on other programs?
    I think if you started doing deadlifts with your squat 10rep max like I suggest then it won't overdo your cns. Your squat and dl workouts will increase at the same rate so your dl will always be an easier workout than squat. By the time deadlift becomes difficult all of your other lifts will have stalled out and you'd be doing a different program anyway. You could make the first two sets of 5 ramp up sets if you like, but I don't think it is needed if you did sufficient warm ups and started the program with the suggested weight.
    Originally Posted by Bluerex View Post
    I think I am going to make the switch over from strong lift to your program. I like the advanced option 2 with the variation in reps, just to change it up a little since I have been doing 5x5 for several months now. I am also going to try and cut down calories a little since I plumped up on SL and see how it goes.

    One question, what is your opinion on seated OHP vs standing? I fully understand you want us to use standing, but do to low ceilings in my basement where I workout, standing isn't an option. I have been doing seated without the aid of the back support, but was wondering if something should be added or if you could think of another option. I have thought about doing them from my knees.
    There is no problem doing it seated. Of course you'd get more core activation doing them standing, but you have to do what your equipment allows.

  9. #99
    Registered User TraposaurusRx's Avatar
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    Wasn't able to get started on the routune today cuz of work. Would it be alright to do Tuesday Thursday and Saturday this week and go to monday wednesday friday next week?

  10. #100
    Registered User GymFreak25's Avatar
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    First workout today, felt great, i gotta say it was way better to do the rows 3x8 than 3x5, my form was **** with 5 reps. I do have a question about the face pulls though, is it better to pull to your face or neck area?, or does it not matter?.

  11. #101
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TraposaurusRx View Post
    Wasn't able to get started on the routune today cuz of work. Would it be alright to do Tuesday Thursday and Saturday this week and go to monday wednesday friday next week?
    No issues with that.
    Originally Posted by GymFreak25 View Post
    First workout today, felt great, i gotta say it was way better to do the rows 3x8 than 3x5, my form was **** with 5 reps. I do have a question about the face pulls though, is it better to pull to your face or neck area?, or does it not matter?.
    Doesn't matter man.

  12. #102
    Registered User krazeecracker's Avatar
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    Currently I'm running this program: muscleandstrength.com/workouts/shaun--s-3-day-muscle-building-split I'm getting decent results, and I've been using it for about a month and a half so far. My question is, would I benefit from using fierce 5 as far as gaining size and keeping my definition over the latter?

  13. #103
    Just trying to make it. Kcabo's Avatar
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    A couple of my buddies just started working out and come to me and some other lifters (bro scientists) for advice. Unfortunately, they don't listen to me and are running the typical bro split as a complete beginner. Makes me so mad - they'd benefit so much more from a routine like this.
    The more I eat and the heavier I train - the better my 'genetics' get.

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  14. #104
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by krazeecracker View Post
    Currently I'm running this program: muscleandstrength.com/workouts/shaun--s-3-day-muscle-building-split I'm getting decent results, and I've been using it for about a month and a half so far. My question is, would I benefit from using fierce 5 as far as gaining size and keeping my definition over the latter?
    Can't find the routine you posted. This is a double edged sword. I don't like advising people to hop programs so let me explain.

    A 3day split will have you working out each muscle less often which means you'll also be increasing weight less often. You will still see pretty decent results in terms of strength and muscle growth, but they will be slower than running a program like this that has more frequency.

    What is equally as important is not hopping from program to program cuz you find one you think is better every 6 weeks. The issue with program hopping is the lack of progression. Programs are designed to start light and increase progression over time. If you only do the program for 6 weeks you miss out on all the more intense workouts. This is one HUGE reason so many beginners work out for a year and don't see results.

    What should you do? You should pick a routine and stick with it for at least 4-6 months. This way you don't ruin the progression of the program you are running. Whether you decide to switch to this one or stick with the one you are already running is your choice, but whatever you decide to do, STICK WITH IT.

    Make sense?


    Edit: You are blue...wtf! This must be a new thing.

    Edit2: Judging by your join date I'm gonna guess and say you got negged by a first time poster and got -10 rep taking you to exactly zero reputation. Interesting.
    Originally Posted by Kcabo View Post
    A couple of my buddies just started working out and come to me and some other lifters (bro scientists) for advice. Unfortunately, they don't listen to me and are running the typical bro split as a complete beginner. Makes me so mad - they'd benefit so much more from a routine like this.
    I had a similar experience with a good friend last week...erasing a lifetime's worth of broscience is hard to do in one thread.
    Last edited by davisj3537; 01-27-2014 at 09:49 PM.

  15. #105
    Registered User of Peace MaximosJ's Avatar
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    Hey OP, I'm curious what you think about a variant of your "Option 2" (under "ADVANCED OPTIONS") that keeps Workout A1 on Monday and Workout B1 on Wednesday, but makes Friday a full-body size-oriented day (instead of splitting the size-oriented work into two days, A2 and B2). The benefit of this would be that the workouts would stay the same every week (A1 - B1 - FB), instead of changing order weekly, as they do in Option 2. The progression would proceed weekly in that case, as well (instead of about every 9 days).

    Let me quickly add that I'm not suggesting that all of the lifts on A2/B2 be combined into one day(!). Instead, I'm envisioning a Friday full-body workout that is something more like this (it's pretty similar to an All Pro workout day):

    Squat 3x10
    Bench 3x10
    Pendlay Rows 3x10
    OHP 3x10
    SLDL 3x10
    BB Curl 2x10
    Calf Extension 2x10
    Triceps Pressdown 2x10

    The numbers could be tinkered with if the volume on this day is too much. Maybe 2x10 across all lifts, or maybe substitute Incline Bench for both OHP/Bench (to eliminate a lift), etc., etc. Don't want to get into all that nitty-gritty stuff because it's your thread, and I don't want to be proposing a "new" program here -- just curious whether you think a variation like this is possible in your setup.
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  16. #106
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Well when it comes right down to it my program is just a recommendation. You can change it anyway you see fit and there is nothing I can do about it. lol.

    I see what you are saying about the volume being similar to all pros, but you've got to remember this program has over 4 times faster progression than all pros. After a month's worth of progression you'd fry your cns trying to do sets of 10 for all of these exercises on a Friday workout IMO. It is also worth mentioning that you'll see such a small difference between sets of 10 and 5 in a beginner's muscle growth, that this advanced option 2 is something of a placebo.

    I think if you'd like to keep the workouts the same from week to week you'd be better off rotating weeks of all 10 and all 5. You'll still rotate days A and B, but the reps will be consistent throughout the week.

    Everyone is different though. If you want to try it out and update everybody with the results I'd be interested to see them.

  17. #107
    Registered User CrazyCanuck01's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    It is also worth mentioning that you'll see such a small difference between sets of 10 and 5 in a beginner's muscle growth, that this advanced option 2 is something of a placebo.
    Interesting, I was planning on using the Advanced 2 routine as I've heard that more reps=more size gains, so a mix of the two (5 & 10s) made sense to me for size/strength. If you don't believe there is any noticeable difference between 10s and 5s for a beginner why do you consider it your fav of the bunch?

  18. #108
    Registered User TraposaurusRx's Avatar
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    Works been hell this week and I couldn't start today either. My schedule got changed for the week too. So imma get started next monday. But the good news is the schedule im working this week is the schedule ill be on for work regularly and going to the gym so this weeks kinda become an adjust my sleep schedule week for next week lol

  19. #109
    Registered User GymFreak25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck01 View Post
    Interesting, I was planning on using the Advanced 2 routine as I've heard that more reps=more size gains, so a mix of the two (5 & 10s) made sense to me for size/strength. If you don't believe there is any noticeable difference between 10s and 5s for a beginner why do you consider it your fav of the bunch?
    I believe there is a 90% overlap between strength and size, the other 10% has to do with neural effiency with the lower reps and increased glycogen storage with the higher reps.

  20. #110
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck01 View Post
    Interesting, I was planning on using the Advanced 2 routine as I've heard that more reps=more size gains, so a mix of the two (5 & 10s) made sense to me for size/strength. If you don't believe there is any noticeable difference between 10s and 5s for a beginner why do you consider it your fav of the bunch?
    It adds variety to the routine making it more fun IMO. How rep ranges affect muscle growth is certainly debatable. Regardless of my parroted opinions on muscle growth and how rep ranges affect that, there are many people that only want to do routines with rep ranges of 10; in contrast there many people that only want to do rep ranges of 5. Some people want a mix and that is the reason for the 3 options. It gives a program option to anyone regardless of what rep ranges they are wanting to do.

    Rep ranges aside, no one can deny that if you are eating appropriately, you will gain size and strength regardless of what rep ranges you are using. This is particularly so in beginner stages of muscle growth. I don't intend to change anyone's opinion on what rep range to use. I simply gave an option to appease everyone.

    Originally Posted by TraposaurusRx View Post
    Works been hell this week and I couldn't start today either. My schedule got changed for the week too. So imma get started next monday. But the good news is the schedule im working this week is the schedule ill be on for work regularly and going to the gym so this weeks kinda become an adjust my sleep schedule week for next week lol
    Sounds like a good thing overall bud.

  21. #111
    Registered User CrazyCanuck01's Avatar
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    Right on, thanks guys.

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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    It adds variety to the routine making it more fun IMO. How rep ranges affect muscle growth is certainly debatable. Regardless of my parroted opinions on muscle growth and how rep ranges affect that, there are many people that only want to do routines with rep ranges of 10; in contrast there many people that only want to do rep ranges of 5. Some people want a mix and that is the reason for the 3 options. It gives a program option to anyone regardless of what rep ranges they are wanting to do.

    Rep ranges aside, no one can deny that if you are eating appropriately, you will gain size and strength regardless of what rep ranges you are using. This is particularly so in beginner stages of muscle growth. I don't intend to change anyone's opinion on what rep range to use. I simply gave an option to appease everyone.


    Sounds like a good thing overall bud.
    I think the original is pretty mixed, your doing 2 exercises each day with 5 reps, 2 exercises with 8 reps, one exercises with 10 and one with 15, your pretty much working with all rep ranges in each workout, how is that not suitable for both strength and size?, i don't think its necessary to do a workout utilizing just one rep range if you want size.

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    Have you sent a PM to any mod to ask him to stick this routine?

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    Yup seems to be. Forcing me to adjust my sleeping schedule and work on prepping food for the next day too with going to bed early and getting up early

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    Originally Posted by GymFreak25 View Post
    I think the original is pretty mixed, your doing 2 exercises each day with 5 reps, 2 exercises with 8 reps, one exercises with 10 and one with 15, your pretty much working with all rep ranges in each workout, how is that not suitable for both strength and size?, i don't think its necessary to do a workout utilizing just one rep range if you want size.
    Some exercises are just better suited to higher reps like traps, calves...etc.. Others are programmed in high rep sets to reduce the amount of sets, but still acquire overall volume.
    Originally Posted by krysix View Post
    Have you sent a PM to any mod to ask him to stick this routine?
    I pm'd a mod when I first put up the thread asking for tips on what I might have left out that may be useful, so at least one is aware of this thread's existence. I could be wrong, but I don't think mods would want a bunch of PMs asking for a sticky. We may need more support or they may not deem it worthy of a sticky. Only time will answer that question.

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    Starting this today. I love having a good mix between power and hyper rep ranges.
    Last edited by davisj3537; 02-24-2015 at 09:11 PM.
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    Originally Posted by drummaboyyyy View Post
    Starting this today. I love having a good mix between power and hyper rep ranges. Though might run it A1, B1 rest, A2, B2, rest, rest, repeat.
    Not sure that running it that way would work for very long... Having A1 and B1 on back-to-back days means doing 3x5 on Squats one day and 3x5 on Deadlifts the next. Could be pretty brutal.

    OP, thanks for your response to my earlier question.
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    Originally Posted by MaximosJ View Post
    Not sure that running it that way would work for very long... Having A1 and B1 on back-to-back days means doing 3x5 on Squats one day and 3x5 on Deadlifts the next. Could be pretty brutal.

    OP, thanks for your response to my earlier question.
    This.

    Don't do a fullbody day right after a fullbody day. You need a day of rest in between. Remember how fast the progression is...in 4 months you'll have put 160lbs on your squat. If you go taking out rest days OR adding in exercises you'll stall way faster and won't increase your lifts even close to that level. This is a super fast full body program already...trying to make more shortcuts is a bad idea.

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    Hey ~

    I have a good 50 lbs to lose on me at the moment.

    I am 6'1 tall, about 230 lbs. (no muscle, very fat, weak too..former 300 lb guy that has a lot of extra skin on me as well lol)

    I know 180 lbs at 6'1 is a bit skinny, but because I have been a big/fat guy all my life, I want to be "skinny" once lol. But nonetheless, about 180 and 15% body fat by 1/1/2015 is my goal.

    Anyhow, I am going to be on a cut, rather significant one at that. Do you recommend all pros for people on a cut?
    IF not, how should I adjust the progression on your program to fit my caloric deficit?

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    Originally Posted by kc0716 View Post
    Hey ~

    I have a good 50 lbs to lose on me at the moment.

    I am 6'1 tall, about 230 lbs. (no muscle, very fat, weak too..former 300 lb guy that has a lot of extra skin on me as well lol)

    I know 180 lbs at 6'1 is a bit skinny, but because I have been a big/fat guy all my life, I want to be "skinny" once lol. But nonetheless, about 180 and 15% body fat by 1/1/2015 is my goal.

    Anyhow, I am going to be on a cut, rather significant one at that. Do you recommend all pros for people on a cut?
    IF not, how should I adjust the progression on your program to fit my caloric deficit?
    Well I talked about this a bit in an earlier post. I'm interested to see how cutting works on this program. Obviously the progression will be more difficult. I'd be tempted to cut progression in half after the first time you fail on several major lifts. If you start light this will still take awhile...my guess is at least 6-8 weeks.

    All pros is a good option for people cutting, but I still think the progression is too slow...particularly in the beginning.

    You may want to run this program until you legitimately stall and then jump on all pros??? It is all up to you bud. If you run this program be sure to follow my advice on picking starting weights.

    BTW your goals are good ones and completely achievable in your time frame.

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