"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[JayB1985]

Sweet * assume it's not mandatory to run all pros over this? I just really like the layout and that you can alternate squat and deadlift rather than doin both on the same day like SL and SS.

I do have a lot of weight to lose but would assume this comes down to diet more than routine

With regards to leg curl is it the leg press machine or the hamstring curl machine I would use or neither and it's somethin else?

Finally can you use trap bar for deadlifts or is it strictly barbell? I do find it easier to do trap bar ones.

Thanks again

[ItsTiME35]

Sweet * assume it's not mandatory to run all pros over this? I just really like the layout and that you can alternate squat and deadlift rather than doin both on the same day like SL and SS.

I do have a lot of weight to lose but would assume this comes down to diet more than routine

With regards to leg curl is it the leg press machine or the hamstring curl machine I would use or neither and it's somethin else?

Finally can you use trap bar for deadlifts or is it strictly barbell? I do find it easier to do trap bar ones.

Thanks again

I have lost 60 pounds since march 15 and been on this routine since July... you will lose weight on this with proper deficit and nutrition.

Good luck man

[JayB1985]

I have lost 60 pounds since march 15 and been on this routine since July... you will lose weight on this with proper deficit and nutrition.

Good luck man

can you advise on the deadlifts? trap bar or barbell and the leg curl machine

Thanks

[Squid24]

Is it alright If I take a 10-15 seconds rest between reps in deadlifts? felt like progression went way too up 60lbs in 6weeks, and now its kicking me up the curb, but If I drop the weight down by just a bit it feels too light.

Do you really need that long? Why not 5 sec? That is enough time to straighten up, get in a good breath, then get back into position. But I would try to get as many reps in before you have to do that.

do i also need to add 5lbs to my curls and tricep rope pushdown every week?

No, I would try and add reps, once you hit 15 reps add weight.

[Squid24]

can you advise on the deadlifts? trap bar or barbell and the leg curl machine

Thanks

I have never used a trap bar. I think it puts everything in a different position than the barbell. Your legs have limited space, arms to the sides, kinda like DB squats to me, but I have heard is better for someone with a bad back...I can not prove this, cause again, I do not have one.

Davis????

[TheViking1992]

I have never used a trap bar. I think it puts everything in a different position than the barbell. Your legs have limited space, arms to the sides, kinda like DB squats to me, but I have heard is better for someone with a bad back...I can not prove this, cause again, I do not have one.

Davis????

Trap Bar Deadlifts have more in common with a Barbell Hack Squat than the Regular Deadlift...

[MyEgoProblem]

Last time I did RDL was August when I made the switch to deadlift/legcurl. At that point my RDL was 50kg. I can now deadlift 125kg 3x5 (140kg 1RM) so wondering what RDL weight to start at for working sets now I have made 8 months progress? i'm thinking around 90kg but is this too light/heavy?

Thanks in advance guys

Test day buddy.. Just work up to a number that feels good and use that next time! (with a little room to get a good run of progression ofc)

[ItsTiME35]

Test day buddy.. Just work up to a number that feels good and use that next time! (with a little room to get a good run of progression ofc)

works for me brosepth... thanks Jay

[Squid24]

Trap Bar Deadlifts have more in common with a Barbell Hack Squat than the Regular Deadlift...

I have never done Hack Squats, but yes, the mechanics are the same and hit the same muscle groups

[MyEgoProblem]

can you advise on the deadlifts? trap bar or barbell and the leg curl machine.

Thanks

Leg Curl. Hamstring curl. Curl.

Trap bar is very good but as already posted its halfway between a squat and a deadlift. Bb is preference here but...

If you flip it so the handles are down you get a longer rom, more hip hinge and it resembles a dead a little more. It could pass.

[ruizer]

If I decide to do Deadlifts instead of RDLs do I have to switch out front squats too? Or can I keep the front squats?

[Squid24]

If I decide to do Deadlifts instead of RDLs do I have to switch out front squats too? Or can I keep the front squats?

Did you even read the first page? I am thinking you did not.


Acceptable Substitutions
Face Pulls-Reverse Flies
Tricep pressdowns-overhead extensions, skull crushers…etc. (basically any tricep isolation exercise)
Lat Pulldowns-Any form of pull/chin up. You’ll need a dip belt to add weight. (You need a pull from above your head)
Overhead Press-Incline Bench
Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull to the chest with a wide grip and elbows at 45 degrees. NOT BOR. See FAQ.
Bench-Decline bench, dips (leaning forward) You’ll need a dip belt to add weight
Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.
Front Squat-Paused back squats

[MyEgoProblem]

If I decide to do Deadlifts instead of RDLs do I have to switch out front squats too? Or can I keep the front squats?

That's what the program says.
For recovery reasons.

Full deadlift takes way more out of you and takes longer to recover from and adapt to than the RDL.

You could theoretically do a sldl instead of rdl at a pinch, as its similar to an RDL recovery/stress wise but its not actually in the list of subs davis posted. And people butcher it and push it into a reg deadlift without realising.

But honestly if you are having to ask, you aren't in a position to make changes tbh, no disrespect.. Stick to front squat + rdl OR reg dead + ham curl IMO.

[ruizer]

Did you even read the first page? I am thinking you did not.


Acceptable Substitutions
Face Pulls-Reverse Flies
Tricep pressdowns-overhead extensions, skull crushers…etc. (basically any tricep isolation exercise)
Lat Pulldowns-Any form of pull/chin up. You’ll need a dip belt to add weight. (You need a pull from above your head)
Overhead Press-Incline Bench
Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull to the chest with a wide grip and elbows at 45 degrees. NOT BOR. See FAQ.
Bench-Decline bench, dips (leaning forward) You’ll need a dip belt to add weight
Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.
Front Squat-Paused back squats

I did read it. i just wanted clarification.

[ruizer]

That's what the program says.
For recovery reasons.

Full deadlift takes way more out of you and takes longer to recover from and adapt to than the RDL.

You could theoretically do a sldl instead of rdl at a pinch, as its similar to an RDL recovery/stress wise but its not actually in the list of subs davis posted. And people butcher it and push it into a reg deadlift without realising.

But honestly if you are having to ask, you aren't in a position to make changes tbh, no disrespect.. Stick to front squat + rdl OR reg dead + ham curl IMO.

I only asked bc I wanted to deadlift as well as front squat. Thanks for the clarification.

[blo0mz]

Hey guys,

Bulked on this program for a few months and made some good progress. I went being a complete noob to "intermediate" lift numbers. However, I'm getting noticeably fat so I switched to cutting (~300kcal deficit). My main goal right now is to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing just under a pound a week.

My problem is that now, at a deficit, I do not have the energy to complete the workout. Squatting 3x5 at the start just completely drains me at the start. By the time I get to Pendlay rows I have pretty much 0 gas left in the tank. I already halved my progression rate. Now, I don't expect to gain much (if any) strength or muscle while lifting at a caloric deficit, I just want to keep what I have. Would it be terrible to lower the number of sets (i.e. 2x5 for compounds), or lower the number of reps per set (i.e. 3x3 for compounds) for each exercise since I can't make gains anyway? Should I just switch to Allpro's?

Thanks

[Escanor]

I'm an idiot, I was thinking about it today during my workout why this program doesn't work shoulders then looked at the original post and saw I was supposed to be doing shoulder presses not incline bench.

Also during my second set of front squats in got this splitting headache for about 20 seconds, not sure if I wasn't breathing properly but is this something I should be worried about?

[Squid24]

I'm an idiot, I was thinking about it today during my workout why this program doesn't work shoulders then looked at the original post and saw I was supposed to be doing shoulder presses not incline bench.

Also during my second set of front squats in got this splitting headache for about 20 seconds, not sure if I wasn't breathing properly but is this something I should be worried about?

Well, Incline does work your shoulder too

[MyEgoProblem]

Aggressively too.

As does flat bench.. And facepulls, and rows and chins.

What doesn't work shoulders again? :-)

[splattenburgers]

My problem is that now, at a deficit, I do not have the energy to complete the workout. Squatting 3x5 at the start just completely drains me at the start. By the time I get to Pendlay rows I have pretty much 0 gas left in the tank.

Make sure to eat well before you start. You don't need to spread your food evenly throughout the day. Eat what you must about an hour or so before you start working out and then eat whatever your remaining calories allow for for the rest of the day. Also make sure that your meal contains a fair amount of all 3 macros. Works for me.

[MyEgoProblem]

Hey guys,

Bulked on this program for a few months and made some good progress. I went being a complete noob to "intermediate" lift numbers. However, I'm getting noticeably fat so I switched to cutting (~300kcal deficit). My main goal right now is to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing just under a pound a week.

My problem is that now, at a deficit, I do not have the energy to complete the workout. Squatting 3x5 at the start just completely drains me at the start. By the time I get to Pendlay rows I have pretty much 0 gas left in the tank. I already halved my progression rate. Now, I don't expect to gain much (if any) strength or muscle while lifting at a caloric deficit, I just want to keep what I have. Would it be terrible to lower the number of sets (i.e. 2x5 for compounds), or lower the number of reps per set (i.e. 3x3 for compounds) for each exercise since I can't make gains anyway? Should I just switch to Allpro's?

Thanks

Stalls, resets and plateaus are all part and parcel of lifting in a defecit.

Lowering weights and trying to build them back up without loosing strength IS good going on a cut. The undulation of intensity give you some well needed drops in workload and rest.

Imo, DON'T cut the sets n reps tho.. Even if you aren't progressing, getting leaner and maintaining your numbers IS an increase in relative strength.

[BearDupuis]

One more question. Is it normal for my overhead press to be higher than my bench press?
It's 210, but my bench is 200. Oh. And it gets weirder. I'm 208 lbs last I weighed and I can do 3x5 dips. With 50 lbs hanging off me.
This is my first weight lifting program. Everything else I did has been calisthenics with weight vests.
... ?

[bob2589]

I'm no expert by any means but those numbers do look a little off. My OHP is around 50kg but my bench is currently at 85kg and i'm weighing in at around 85kg.

[bob2589]

Need a little advice guys.

I failed the last rep of the last set on bench on Monday, i'm back round to it today. I'm benching bodyweight now, but the form is shot. Half reps at best for the last 1.5 sets and can't get it down to my chest for good depth. I'm working without a spotter.

Is there any benefit to reseting and working back up using paused reps, to build the strength out of the bottom, or should I just reset and go again with standard reps.

I think I may be about to plateu on bench as i've never benched up this high before, so thinking a change may help.

[lqwwssd]

OK everyone, I need you guys help on this one.

I have been doing this program for a month, now. So far so good, I have been eating at surplus (3000-3500 cal a day). My weight went from 59kg to 63kg. I have 2 questions for OHP and assisted pullup (I subbed for lats pull down).

1. I seem to start struggling on my OHP, although I was barely able to complete the set on my last workout. Unlike other big lifts, after I completed the sets, I can still able to feel the weights can go up to next increment. And to be honest, I think I have the worst form (arched back while doing OHP) out of other big lifts. Should I start using micro plates only on OHP? Or should I start deloading first and then use micro plates to increase the weight over time?

2. For assisted pullup, I have been deoloaded (i.e increased the assisted weight) twice already, Should I keep deloading until I am able to complete the set or change the exercise back to lats pull down?

Thanks.

[ItsTiME35]

Need a little advice guys.

I failed the last rep of the last set on bench on Monday, i'm back round to it today. I'm benching bodyweight now, but the form is shot. Half reps at best for the last 1.5 sets and can't get it down to my chest for good depth. I'm working without a spotter.

Is there any benefit to reseting and working back up using paused reps, to build the strength out of the bottom, or should I just reset and go again with standard reps.

I think I may be about to plateu on bench as i've never benched up this high before, so thinking a change may help.

Always form before weight my friend. I personally would dial the weight back a bit until you get your form right... pointless lifting loads of weight when your form is ****ed and you are doing half reps.

[MyEgoProblem]

Need a little advice guys.

I failed the last rep of the last set on bench on Monday, i'm back round to it today. I'm benching bodyweight now, but the form is shot. Half reps at best for the last 1.5 sets and can't get it down to my chest for good depth. I'm working without a spotter.

Is there any benefit to reseting and working back up using paused reps, to build the strength out of the bottom, or should I just reset and go again with standard reps.

I think I may be about to plateu on bench as i've never benched up this high before, so thinking a change may help.

If your form is ****, reset regardless..
But pause reps are an excellent idea tbh..

Forces good form, tightness and explosive power from chest.

One more question. Is it normal for my overhead press to be higher than my bench press?
It's 210, but my bench is 200. Oh. And it gets weirder. I'm 208 lbs last I weighed and I can do 3x5 dips. With 50 lbs hanging off me.
This is my first weight lifting program. Everything else I did has been calisthenics with weight vests.
... ?

Normally, decline,flat, incline then ohp in order of moving the most weight.

And as dips are good.
Form check time imo,something is off.

[RebornGC45]

I've been doing triceps rope push downs and I was wondering if close grip bench press is better for my triceps or skullcrushers

[MyEgoProblem]

I've been doing triceps rope push downs and I was wondering if close grip bench press is better for my triceps or skullcrushers

Not cgbp (or dips) throws out the push / pull balance.

Skulls are good! More long head emphasis.

[RebornGC45]

Is it better to have skullcrushers close to forehead or over your head as you do it? I've seen different videos and each of em do different styles. Which of the two is more effective?