"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[dgoyena216]

Brilliant mate!
Build up to volume and weight tho.. No rush to get back to 100%.. Let your shoulder adapt to the stresses!

Clean reps.. Perfect form.. and go from there!

This is my advice from my experience :-)

Yep. That is the plan. Start at 50% of the weight I was doing before, and go up from there, and make sure form is perfect on everything. Been doing that for the last 2 weeks as instructed my the physio to see how it feels during pressing and chins.

This is why I decided to basically just start over with a novice program with all the new knowledge I have acquired from these forums and a few books in the last 6 months.

Been putting a lot of weight back on the scale too. And my surplus is pretty small or not at all. Trying to figure out my TDEE, and using a calculator as a ballpark figure for the last 2 weeks. But then I just end up eating way above that, so trying to figure out my TDEE isnt going too well haha.

[DrakHarr]

So, how should I handle a reset on an isolation? I didn't fail curls at 70, but I'm guessing next weeks 75 will not go well. Should I just keep doing 70, reset the 15% like it was a compound lift, or switch to a different bicep iso?

[cnh57811]

It's tough to add weight to the isolation movements consistently. You could try adding reps for a few weeks and then bumping the weight up. For example. 70x10, 70x11, 70x12, 75x10, 75x11, etc.

[dgoyena216]

So, how should I handle a reset on an isolation? I didn't fail curls at 70, but I'm guessing next weeks 75 will not go well. Should I just keep doing 70, reset the 15% like it was a compound lift, or switch to a different bicep iso?

I wouldnt worry too much about isos. Just try and progress on those best you can. The big thing with this routine is to progress on the main lifts.

[MyEgoProblem]

When i fail /stall an iso..

I change reps and weight, maybe 5s, 20s, 15s, 8s..

or more likely.. Ill just swap it out to a different version.

Bb Curl > ez curl, db curl, rope curl, ect
Skullcrusher > rope pushdown, French press, ect

And so on. But very rarely would i reset and rebuild like i do for a compound.

[davisj3537]

While I only discussed one version of a deload in the FAQ, all of the ones discussed on the last page are good. I simply ran out of characters to fit in the FAQ post. lol



It'stime, nice job bud. It will keep climbing and before you know it you'll be s/b/d 150kg/100kg/180kg.

[Kanvus]

How do you make your wrist more flexible for the front squats? everytime I do it it seems to hurt,

[TheViking1992]

How do you make your wrist more flexible for the front squats? everytime I do it it seems to hurt,

What grip are you using?

[Squid24]

How do you make your wrist more flexible for the front squats? everytime I do it it seems to hurt,

I do the cross arms.

[beardohio]

How do you make your wrist more flexible for the front squats? everytime I do it it seems to hurt,

Kanvus, you're always popping in here to ask a quick question and ignore the answers.

I answered with a pretty comprehensive link back in post #9399:

Read Mike Wines' guide to the Front Squat. Should give you some insight.

http://forum.muscleandstrength.com/t...the-Front-Rack

Check it out and come back with further questions if you have them.

[Metalmank]

Believe IM going to take a deload either starting tomorrow, Or next week..

Cutting weight 50% and so forth.

Workout last night was absolutely terrible, Though it was more mental and personal issues that couldnt keep me focused.

Example: Did 375LB DL last night, Was only able to get out 1 set of 5 and 1 set of 4. Im sure i could of done more, But i felt like my form was possible crumbling, Lack of energy and my body was tired already to begin with. So dropped ot 315LB and did 3x5 of that and than 15 reps of 225.

Only did two more other lifts and just left the gym.

If my body continues to feel like **** (Joints, tired etc) than I'll prob only do light work the rest of the week and plenty of rest. I need to reevaluate my diet as well.


I've been getting some knee pain in my left knee as well (Possible due to the fact that my left leg is shorter than my right therefore sometimes requires more effort). Still feel like **** to so probably going to deload this week. Still mite attempt heavy squats tomorrow tho

[danfleysher]

I am thinking of switching up the the volume to 5 sets of 3 reps, instead of 3 sets of 5 for my powerlifting goals.

Any thoughts?

[Squid24]

I am thinking of switching up the the volume to 5 sets of 3 reps, instead of 3 sets of 5 for my powerlifting goals.

Any thoughts?

I understand Powerlifting is different, but when you look at the time wasted on resting...(in my eyes), you are adding 7 more min(if it's 3min between sets) to just your rest time for that 1 exercise. Times that by the other exercises and that is how long you are sitting on the bench..per say....lol

Me, I don't have the time to waste, I like to be in and done. Also, most ppl complain already on how long the workouts take....

[danfleysher]

I understand Powerlifting is different, but when you look at the time wasted on resting...(in my eyes), you are adding 7 more min(if it's 3min between sets) to just your rest time for that 1 exercise. Times that by the other exercises and that is how long you are sitting on the bench..per say....lol

Me, I don't have the time to waste, I like to be in and done. Also, most ppl complain already on how long the workouts take....

That's a good point. I might incorporate the change once every few weeks or when I have the time to spare and see how the progress goes. I think lifting heavier for 3 reps would then make the 5 reps seem a bit easier.

I don't think the workouts take long at all. I'm always done in about an hour, sometimes less if I skip the biceps/triceps which i sometimes do.

[MyEgoProblem]

Be mindful that most power lifters spend a lot of their time training in higher reps than tripples..

[WrathfulOne]

Would anyone recommend increasing reps when resetting to help break through a plateau?

I do this since it's used in GSLP and I don't see what harm it can do. I just do the last set for AMRAP. Just recently I had to reset squats from 95kg, and when I squatted 85kg I was able to do 5,5,8 whereas on the first run through I could barely manage 5,5,5 on 85kg.

[cnh57811]

I do this since it's used in GSLP and I don't see what harm it can do. I just do the last set for AMRAP. Just recently I had to reset squats from 95kg, and when I squatted 85kg I was able to do 5,5,8 whereas on the first run through I could barely manage 5,5,5 on 85kg.

I'm not convinced that is the best way to reset. A reset is effectively a way to deload on the specific exercise you're failing. If you drop the weight down by 15%, but then increase your reps, your keeping the volume close to constant and not really giving yourself much rest.

[WrathfulOne]

I'm not convinced that is the best way to reset. A reset is effectively a way to deload on the specific exercise you're failing. If you drop the weight down by 15%, but then increase your reps, your keeping the volume close to constant and not really giving yourself much rest.

If you are deloading 15% you have like 3 or 4 weeks until you attempt the failed weight again. And it's not like you will suddenly be pumping out double the reps on your last set. Don't see why you can't just do more if you feel you have gas left in the tank. I'm no expert, but like I said, it's used on GSLP and the progression on that is faster than Fierce 5.

[cnh57811]

If you are deloading 15% you have like 3 or 4 weeks until you attempt the failed weight again. And it's not like you will suddenly be pumping out double the reps on your last set. Don't see why you can't just do more if you feel you have gas left in the tank. I'm no expert, but like I said, it's used on GSLP and the progression on that is faster than Fierce 5.

I'm no expert either, so maybe somebody can come in here and set us straight

But, I thought the whole point of the reset is to give you some(well needed) rest from an exercise that you're failing. The situation you described above was 95kg x 15 reps = 1425kg total volume. When you reset down to 85kg, you went up to 18 reps for total volume of 1530kg. I could be off base here, but that sounds like the exact opposite of how a reset should be. You increased your volume on that lift by 105kg. Definitely not giving your body the rest it probably needs.

[bettendomain]

Interesting routine!

[dgoyena216]

What are some people doing for ab work? I am planning to throw in a cardio(my endurance in mountain biking is suffering)-stretching-ab and some shoulder rehab work day(mostly just internal and external rotations and scapular retractions) on Saturdays. During the week I do ab wheel 3x15. But would like to do something different on Saturdays like planks and leg lifts.

[Squid24]

For your 3 Deloads...did they consist of:
A- Avoiding the gym entirely
B- Lifting with 50% weight
C- No lifting, just cardio/stretching

I'm no expert either, so maybe somebody can come in here and set us straight

But, I thought the whole point of the reset is to give you some(well needed) rest from an exercise that you're failing. The situation you described above was 95kg x 15 reps = 1425kg total volume. When you reset down to 85kg, you went up to 18 reps for total volume of 1530kg. I could be off base here, but that sounds like the exact opposite of how a reset should be. You increased your volume on that lift by 105kg. Definitely not giving your body the rest it probably needs.

A deload is to give you a well needed rest, not because of a fail.

If you fail on your second encounter an exercise of that workout, then you reset 15%. It's like starting over, but heavier, more or less in simpler terms. Some ppl will add reps to help get used to the weight before the jump up and then bring it back down to 5 or said reps.

You are correct about a deload and only dropping it 15% and adding reps...that is not to smart, cause then you are NOT doing a proper deload.

See the difference?

edit: I am not a expert, nor do I play one on the TV, or INTERNET

[Squid24]

What are some people doing for ab work? I am planning to throw in a cardio(my endurance in mountain biking is suffering)-stretching-ab and some shoulder rehab work day(mostly just internal and external rotations and scapular retractions) on Saturdays. During the week I do ab wheel 3x15. But would like to do something different on Saturdays like planks and leg lifts.

I am going to do my regular stuff and add in landmines this yr

[dgoyena216]

I am going to do my regular stuff and add in landmines this yr

What was your regular stuff?

[Squid24]

What was your regular stuff?

Ab rollouts, Hanging leg raises...more like knee raises for me...lol. Crunches and Russian twist

[cnh57811]

A deload is to give you a well needed rest, not because of a fail.
If you fail on your second encounter an exercise of that workout, then you reset 15%. It's like starting over, but heavier, more or less in simpler terms. Some ppl will add reps to help get used to the weight before the jump up and then bring it back down to 5 or said reps.
You are correct about a deload and only dropping it 15% and adding reps...that is not to smart, cause then you are NOT doing a proper deload.
See the difference?
edit: I am not a expert, nor do I play one on the TV, or INTERNET

Yeah, I see the difference. I'm generally a conservative person, so maybe that's why this is hard for me to imagine. I can't see how dropping 15% in weight, but increasing volume or keeping it the same will give you enough rest before you need to tackle the failure point again. Sounds like something I might try both ways when I get to that point...

[WrathfulOne]

I'm no expert either, so maybe somebody can come in here and set us straight

But, I thought the whole point of the reset is to give you some(well needed) rest from an exercise that you're failing. The situation you described above was 95kg x 15 reps = 1425kg total volume. When you reset down to 85kg, you went up to 18 reps for total volume of 1530kg. I could be off base here, but that sounds like the exact opposite of how a reset should be. You increased your volume on that lift by 105kg. Definitely not giving your body the rest it probably needs.

According to Rippetoe (and I think the legend Alan Thrall) if you are a novice and you fail a lift on a novice program, it's either because you didn't eat enough or you didn't sleep enough. I'm trying to follow that philosophy rather than overthink it, so I believe in my case I just need to eat more.

[Squid24]

Yeah, I see the difference. I'm generally a conservative person, so maybe that's why this is hard for me to imagine. I can't see how dropping 15% in weight, but increasing volume or keeping it the same will give you enough rest before you need to tackle the failure point again. Sounds like something I might try both ways when I get to that point...

For me, when I am getting closer to my failed weight, I start adding reps in, cause you want your body to be ready for the jump. If you are benching 180 and you keep failing at 185, add reps before the jump. If you can bench 180 for 6-8 reps, then you should be able to get 5 reps at 185. If that helps make any sense......

[cnh57811]

According to Rippetoe (and I think the legend Alan Thrall) if you are a novice and you fail a lift on a novice program, it's either because you didn't eat enough or you didn't sleep enough. I'm trying to follow that philosophy rather than overthink it, so I believe in my case I just need to eat more.

When you got back up to 95kg, did you successfully get 3x5 and then continue increasing weight?

[cnh57811]

For me, when I am getting closer to my failed weight, I start adding reps in, cause you want your body to be ready for the jump. If you are benching 180 and you keep failing at 185, add reps before the jump. If you can bench 180 for 6-8 reps, then you should be able to get 5 reps at 185. If that helps make any sense......

Ok, yeah....it's like adding a touch of AllPros progression philosophy to slow things down a bit.