"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[Blix72]

I have started with the Fierce 5 program. I'm on a cut and considering my body fat percentage is high (25) my goal is to get it around 15% and become lean. I have never lifted weights before.

I would think the correct way of attempting this would be to start Fierce 5 with low reps and heavy weight as recommended.

As I understand this, in order to build muscle you must be in caloric surplus. As I'm cutting, increasing weights as suggested in the program every week or so may not be possible because I wont be able to lift heavy with low reps due to a low calorie intake to cut (I could be wrong here, please correct me if so).

I therefore think I should have high reps low weight using the same weight I stall on in a few months or whenever this situation develops? So if I am bench pressing 150lbs in 8 months and cant increase anymore weight then my view here would be to use 150lbs but increase my reps and not the weight? Does this sound correct?

I have a view where I think lifting heavy and low reps may not give the lean look? Again correct me if this is not true.

I have read the stickies for nutrition and have come to a conclusion of around 2000 calories per day.

Looking into the future and if I reach my goal, I would then consider bulking and getting to around 18% body fat to build more muscle and then go back on a cut to around 15%. Does this seem the correct way to approach my goal?

I'm happy for anyone to give me constructive feedback as I may not have understood this the way intended and please keep in mind I'm new here so what may seem obvious to some of you may not with me.

BTW there are two versions of this program. One is on this thread the other is within the body space link

You're overthinking, follow the program(in this thread) to a T and forget about whatever is going to give you a "lean look". For now.
I'm cutting too and getting close to where I can't progress a lot more on a caloric defict, but I'm just going to deload/reset and push on to at least try to maintain what muscles I have until I can start bulking.

[frenchy72]

Hi all,

How are folks figuring starting weights? I've just started back with AllPro after a looooong lazy layoff and like the idea of the additional exercises this offers.

Thanks in advance.

[Rodman1]

Ok, what if i want to gain weight fast?

[SP1987]

Ok, what if i want to gain weight fast?

Eat t'ill nothing remains???

on a serious note, lift heavy, eat at a surplus, watch the gains

Follow the program, it is writted as such for a reason

[DrakHarr]

Hi all,

How are folks figuring starting weights? I've just started back with AllPro after a looooong lazy layoff and like the idea of the additional exercises this offers.

Thanks in advance.

I'm going to be coming over from Allpro's to this either at the end of this month or next, depending on my cut. I'll be doing my starting weight around my 10 rep max or so since the first month is supposed to be easier. So I'll prolly just use my current Allpro weights for the same exercies, the others I'll have to figure out with another test.

[BLicK1252]

You're overthinking, follow the program(in this thread) to a T and forget about whatever is going to give you a "lean look". For now.
I'm cutting too and getting close to where I can't progress a lot more on a caloric defict, but I'm just going to deload/reset and push on to at least try to maintain what muscles I have until I can start bulking.

This. I'm probably about the same BF% as OP, maybe even a little higher: read OVERWEIGHT. I haven't been monitoring my calories on this program as much as I'm just focused on hitting my protein goals. I'd like to eventually slim down to 180-190. I'm about 215-220 right now. If you're fat and you dedicate yourself to this program and hitting your protein goals, you'll start building muscle and losing fat. I'm probably consuming 2,200-2,500 calories a day. I was probably consuming about the same, if not more before, but wasn't getting ~200gs of protein. You burn calories by being more active, I'm assuming you were mostly sedentary before. So basically, you could still eat like you were previously (but focus on getting your protein macros) and you should still be building muscle and losing fat. Being active on your off-days will help as well, I try to walk as much as I can and play basketball / football.

[Squid24]

Hi all,

How are folks figuring starting weights? I've just started back with AllPro after a looooong lazy layoff and like the idea of the additional exercises this offers.

Thanks in advance.

FAQ

How much weight should I use? I highly advise to start out lighter than you think you can handle since the progression is very fast. I can’t stress this enough! This program works best with lighter starting weights. I suggest all lifters, regardless of experience, start with 85% of what they think they can lift. You should not be struggling for 4-6 weeks or so.

Ok, what if i want to gain weight fast?

Pretty much this vvvvvvvvv

Eat t'ill nothing remains???

on a serious note, lift heavy, eat at a surplus, watch the gains

Follow the program, it is writted as such for a reason

I'm going to be coming over from Allpro's to this either at the end of this month or next, depending on my cut. I'll be doing my starting weight around my 10 rep max or so since the first month is supposed to be easier. So I'll prolly just use my current Allpro weights for the same exercies, the others I'll have to figure out with another test.

I brought the insert from the front over.

[Arkadij947]

managed to record today's squat session, should have started doing this earlier, thought I was hitting parallel the whole time when I was actually stopping a little earlier. I've been using the mirror in front of the rack for reference, next time I'll go by feel. Form looks ok to me, although I lean a bit on one side on the way up.

50kg side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klzhyHRT3AU

back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjC42BqOqQ

I also filmed bench press and noticed that I tend to hold the bar with my wrists bent, this is how I naturally grab it, no bending halfway through the set. Is it ok or should I start holding it with straight wrists?

[joshdbeard]

I also filmed bench press and noticed that I tend to hold the bar with my wrists bent, this is how I naturally grab it, no bending halfway through the set. Is it ok or should I start holding it with straight wrists?

It's not okay. You're bending your wrists a bit on squat too.

Read davis' Bench Form Thread (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=157060063)

Actually, you should spend a lot of time in the 'Exercises' forum reading about all of the lifts. Read until you can't read anymore. Go watch the YouTube series' So You Think You Can Squat and So You Think You Can Bench. Compare what you are doing to what the pros are doing and make the necessary changes.

A lot of the movements will feel better the more you stretch. Start to incorporate a lot of stretching, foam rolling, and warm up sets to maximize your lifts.

Good luck.

[MisterKC]

Man I'm in a very limited gym, there's basically a bench and Dumbbells. What do you guys recommend?

I can do deadlifts with the bench bar but no squats and tons of other stuff. What do you guys recommend?

[Metalmank]

Man I'm in a very limited gym, there's basically a bench and Dumbbells. What do you guys recommend?

I can do deadlifts with the bench bar but no squats and tons of other stuff. What do you guys recommend?

Is this a home gym? or just a real ****ty gym that you pay for?

if its a home gym, Build a rack for the bar.

If its at a gym. Tell management to get there **** together.

[MisterKC]

Yeah it's a gym in the apartment lol. I reckon I could get a squat rack but not right now. What do you reckon?

[MyEgoProblem]

managed to record today's squat session, should have started doing this earlier, thought I was hitting parallel the whole time when I was actually stopping a little earlier. I've been using the mirror in front of the rack for reference, next time I'll go by feel. Form looks ok to me, although I lean a bit on one side on the way up.

50kg side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klzhyHRT3AU

back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjC42BqOqQ

I also filmed bench press and noticed that I tend to hold the bar with my wrists bent, this is how I naturally grab it, no bending halfway through the set. Is it ok or should I start holding it with straight wrists?

Yeah. A Bit high. You can work on that by pushing your ass back earlier (or Before you bend at the knee)and sitting down between your thighs more.

And the wrists thing is NOT a problem FOR SQUATS so long as you aren't holding the weight with your arms! And the weight is full supported on your back. But for bench. You need to keep the bar in line with your forearms NOT cocked right back.

The only serious thing I saw was your knees!
Your toes are pointed out way too much for how wide you spread your thighs (or how far you push your knees out if you prefer). Your putting them in a very precarious position. So...

You need to either push your knees out way more and keep them tracking in line with your toes which can be difficult to maintain. As you see your knees come in when you push up.

Or..Turn your toes in more with a slightly closer stance. Either way that's the important thing you NEED to sort that so you dont hurt your knees when it gets heavy.

TLDR: keep knees over your toes, NOT inside of them!

Good luck and post a new form video when you think you have that sorted.

[Arkadij947]

It's not okay. You're bending your wrists a bit on squat too.

Read davis' Bench Form Thread (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=157060063)

Actually, you should spend a lot of time in the 'Exercises' forum reading about all of the lifts. Read until you can't read anymore. Go watch the YouTube series' So You Think You Can Squat and So You Think You Can Bench. Compare what you are doing to what the pros are doing and make the necessary changes.

A lot of the movements will feel better the more you stretch. Start to incorporate a lot of stretching, foam rolling, and warm up sets to maximize your lifts.

Good luck.

Thanks, I've been doing DeFranco's agile 8 and upper body warm up routine before every wo but never did any stretching at the end, usually I just do a 15 min cardio session on the treadmill.

I wish I could do more warm up sets but my gym is pretty small so I have to do everything in a hurry if don't wanna wait hours for the equipment to get clear. This especially true for squats since we got only one rack and there's always this guy who takes his sweet ass time to his sets. Takes him 20+ min to do 3 sets with most of time spent chatting or looking at his phone.

Yeah. A Bit high. You can work on that by pushing your ass back earlier (or Before you bend at the knee)and sitting down between your thighs more.

And the wrists thing is NOT a problem FOR SQUATS so long as you aren't holding the weight with your arms! And the weight is full supported on your back. But for bench. You need to keep the bar in line with your forearms NOT cocked right back.

The only serious thing I saw was your knees!
Your toes are pointed out way too much for how wide you spread your thighs (or how far you push your knees out if you prefer). Your putting them in a very precarious position. So...

You need to either push your knees out way more and keep them tracking in line with your toes which can be difficult to maintain. As you see your knees come in when you push up.

Or..Turn your toes in more with a slightly closer stance. Either way that's the important thing you NEED to sort that so you dont hurt your knees when it gets heavy.

TLDR: keep knees over your toes, NOT inside of them!

Good luck and post a new form video when you think you have that sorted.

Thanks for the advice, man!

I'll definitely try keeping my toes more inwards. Didn't know it could hurt knees, they felt pretty sore lately but I thought it was mostly due to excessive pressure put on them for not hitting parallel properly.

[ItsTiME35]

I have started with the Fierce 5 program. I'm on a cut and considering my body fat percentage is high (25) my goal is to get it around 15% and become lean. I have never lifted weights before.

I would think the correct way of attempting this would be to start Fierce 5 with low reps and heavy weight as recommended.

As I understand this, in order to build muscle you must be in caloric surplus. As I'm cutting, increasing weights as suggested in the program every week or so may not be possible because I wont be able to lift heavy with low reps due to a low calorie intake to cut (I could be wrong here, please correct me if so).

I therefore think I should have high reps low weight using the same weight I stall on in a few months or whenever this situation develops? So if I am bench pressing 150lbs in 8 months and cant increase anymore weight then my view here would be to use 150lbs but increase my reps and not the weight? Does this sound correct?

I have a view where I think lifting heavy and low reps may not give the lean look? Again correct me if this is not true.

I have read the stickies for nutrition and have come to a conclusion of around 2000 calories per day.

Looking into the future and if I reach my goal, I would then consider bulking and getting to around 18% body fat to build more muscle and then go back on a cut to around 15%. Does this seem the correct way to approach my goal?

I'm happy for anyone to give me constructive feedback as I may not have understood this the way intended and please keep in mind I'm new here so what may seem obvious to some of you may not with me.

BTW there are two versions of this program. One is on this thread the other is within the body space link

Hey dude.. to give you an example of this program working check out the attached pics.. one of me pre F5 work out and the other post... follow the program to the letter, eat at a deficit and you will see results First pic was May at 202 pounds (had already lost 20 pounds from diet alone), Second pic is 2 weeks ago at 168 pounds

good luck

[Squid24]

Hey dude.. to give you an example of this program working check out the attached pics.. one of me pre F5 work out and the other post... follow the program to the letter, eat at a deficit and you will see results First pic was May at 202 pounds (had already lost 20 pounds from diet alone), Second pic is 2 weeks ago at 168 pounds

good luck

Hey Fatty GREAT PROGRESS PICS!!!!!! Doing AWESOME BUD, keep it up!!!

How slow has your lifting progress been with the cut? Or, are you not cutting, but just losing the weight?

[Squid24]

Worked the scoreboard at the local College for the Men and Women's games last night. Got over after 10pm(I am in bed by 9 mind you...lol) went straight to be when I got home. Alarm went off at 4, as normal, and reset my alarm...lol. suffice it to say, I did NOT get my workout in this morning Gonna play catch up tomorrow morning before my 12hr shift...yay

[BLicK1252]

Ugh, tried to take video of my back squat today. Big fail. Guess I'll just have to suck it up and ask someone to do it for me.

[ItsTiME35]

Hey Fatty GREAT PROGRESS PICS!!!!!! Doing AWESOME BUD, keep it up!!!

How slow has your lifting progress been with the cut? Or, are you not cutting, but just losing the weight?

Hey Squid... I have been cutting since march at around 1550 cals and upped it to 1700 when I went under 170 pounds (54 lost total since march). My lifting started off great but its starting to slow up. My Deads are going up but my DB bench and squats seem to always feel super heavy.. Lat pulls are creeping up too.

Aim is to cut another 5-10 pounds then lean bulk

[ItsTiME35]

Ugh, tried to take video of my back squat today. Big fail. Guess I'll just have to suck it up and ask someone to do it for me.

no shame in that man

[ItsTiME35]

Worked the scoreboard at the local College for the Men and Women's games last night. Got over after 10pm(I am in bed by 9 mind you...lol) went straight to be when I got home. Alarm went off at 4, as normal, and reset my alarm...lol. suffice it to say, I did NOT get my workout in this morning Gonna play catch up tomorrow morning before my 12hr shift...yay

missing a workout sucks man... i know it aint massive in grand scheme but missing one plays havock with my head

[mattl1992]

Hey, i joined a few weeks ago looking for advice as i was on an awful (now obvious to me) bro split and peeing in the wind trying to put on serious muscle.

Under the advice of a few people i scrapped all previous program and began doing the fierce 5 routine solely, working out exactly as set out by davisj3537 in the original post.

I started on 11th November and have just completed my 11th workout, just wanted to share my results to see whether i'm making the right progress or doing anything wrong etc.

I've tried to be spot on with nutrition, get 10-11 hours of sleep on my days off and follow this program religiously, I do feel as though i'm getting slightly bigger, but nothing too noticeable or obvious as yet (which I would expect as i've only been running the program just over 3 weeks).

I'm just wondering when others started to notice a difference in their physique when running this program? I know it varies dependent on genetics and body fat etc.

Here is my progress so far:

Workout 1- 11/11/15
A
Sq- 22.5kg or 50lbs
Bench- 25kg or 55lbs
PR's- 30kg or 66lbs
RF's- 2.5kg or 5.5lbs
CR's- 40kg or 88lbs
TP's- 25kg or 55lbs

Workout 2- 13/11/15
B
F Sq- 17.5kg or 38.5lbs
Inc Bench- 20kg or 44lbs
RDL- 35kg or 77lbs
LP's- 40kg or 88lbs
ABS- 2x15 Sit Ups
Curls- 15kg or 33lbs

Workout 10- 02/12/15
B
F Sq- 25kg or 55lbs
Inc Bench- 30kg or 66lbs
RDL- 45kg or 99lbs
LP's- 65kg or 143lbs
Abs- 2x50 Sit Ups
Curls- 20kg or 44lbs

Workout 11- 04/12/15
B
Squat- 35kg or 77lbs
Bench- 35kg or 77lbs
PR's- 40kg or 88lbs
RF's- 10kg or 22lbs
CR's- 55kg or 121lbs
TP's- 40kg or 88lbs

My progress has been slow at times but i've made a point of only adding weight when I can lift it and not pushing to a point where I can't physically lift it anymore.

Thanks to every and especially davis for this program, finally after spending so much time going round in circles and feeling lost in a vat of information i finally feel like i'm making progress on a solid program.

[Squid24]

Hey Squid... I have been cutting since march at around 1550 cals and upped it to 1700 when I went under 170 pounds (54 lost total since march). My lifting started off great but its starting to slow up. My Deads are going up but my DB bench and squats seem to always feel super heavy.. Lat pulls are creeping up too.

Aim is to cut another 5-10 pounds then lean bulk

Keep on doing it...awesome sh!t so far

missing a workout sucks man... i know it aint massive in grand scheme but missing one plays havock with my head

mine too

[joshdbeard]

Thanks, I've been doing DeFranco's agile 8 and upper body warm up routine before every wo but never did any stretching at the end, usually I just do a 15 min cardio session on the treadmill.

I wish I could do more warm up sets but my gym is pretty small so I have to do everything in a hurry if don't wanna wait hours for the equipment to get clear. This especially true for squats since we got only one rack and there's always this guy who takes his sweet ass time to his sets. Takes him 20+ min to do 3 sets with most of time spent chatting or looking at his phone.


Thanks for the advice, man!

I'll definitely try keeping my toes more inwards. Didn't know it could hurt knees, they felt pretty sore lately but I thought it was mostly due to excessive pressure put on them for not hitting parallel properly.

Glad to hear you know of DeFranco's warmup stuff...keep at it. Flexibility will increase. Try to do something daily...and if you don't have a foam roller (or a large piece of PVC pipe) you should invest in one. Should not run you more than $30.

As I said, continue to read in the 'Exercises' section of the forums. Check out the videos I suggested. Also, by the looks of you, this thread may come in handy...I came across it yesterday it's called "Squatting With Long Femurs" (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=160995431).

As far as being in a hurry...that's no good for anyone. Be direct with other members. Try not to disturb them when they are in a set or preparing for a set...but usually a good time to ask how long they will be is directly after finishing a set. Get an estimate and ask them politely to give you a wave/nod when they are about to be done. When you have the rack, don't feel the need to rush. If someone else really needs in...they will likely ask to "work in" with you. The gym is just as much yours as it is theirs. Good luck!

[ItsTiME35]

Keep on doing it...awesome sh!t so far

mine too

thanks man.. and yeah its hard mentally missing one, throws out my week totally LOL.... and as for my losses I would love to see how my lifts respond eating at a 100-200 cal surplus... oh well that will come in time I guess

[mannymann]

Hey, i joined a few weeks ago looking for advice as i was on an awful (now obvious to me) bro split and peeing in the wind trying to put on serious muscle.

Under the advice of a few people i scrapped all previous program and began doing the fierce 5 routine solely, working out exactly as set out by davisj3537 in the original post.

I started on 11th November and have just completed my 11th workout, just wanted to share my results to see whether i'm making the right progress or doing anything wrong etc.

I've tried to be spot on with nutrition, get 10-11 hours of sleep on my days off and follow this program religiously, I do feel as though i'm getting slightly bigger, but nothing too noticeable or obvious as yet (which I would expect as i've only been running the program just over 3 weeks).

I'm just wondering when others started to notice a difference in their physique when running this program? I know it varies dependent on genetics and body fat etc.

Here is my progress so far:

Workout 1- 11/11/15
A
Sq- 22.5kg or 50lbs
Bench- 25kg or 55lbs
PR's- 30kg or 66lbs
RF's- 2.5kg or 5.5lbs
CR's- 40kg or 88lbs
TP's- 25kg or 55lbs

Workout 2- 13/11/15
B
F Sq- 17.5kg or 38.5lbs
Inc Bench- 20kg or 44lbs
RDL- 35kg or 77lbs
LP's- 40kg or 88lbs
ABS- 2x15 Sit Ups
Curls- 15kg or 33lbs

Workout 10- 02/12/15
B
F Sq- 25kg or 55lbs
Inc Bench- 30kg or 66lbs
RDL- 45kg or 99lbs
LP's- 65kg or 143lbs
Abs- 2x50 Sit Ups
Curls- 20kg or 44lbs

Workout 11- 04/12/15
B
Squat- 35kg or 77lbs
Bench- 35kg or 77lbs
PR's- 40kg or 88lbs
RF's- 10kg or 22lbs
CR's- 55kg or 121lbs
TP's- 40kg or 88lbs

My progress has been slow at times but i've made a point of only adding weight when I can lift it and not pushing to a point where I can't physically lift it anymore.

Thanks to every and especially davis for this program, finally after spending so much time going round in circles and feeling lost in a vat of information i finally feel like i'm making progress on a solid program.

Hey dude, keep with it. Your numbers look like where they should be as it's only been 3 weeks (15kg's on lower body and 7.5kg on upper). What I will say though is that in the first 3 weeks, if you've picked your starting weights right, then it should be more about getting your form in and shouldn't really be having any issues with the weight.

[mannymann]

Hey Squid... I have been cutting since march at around 1550 cals and upped it to 1700 when I went under 170 pounds (54 lost total since march). My lifting started off great but its starting to slow up. My Deads are going up but my DB bench and squats seem to always feel super heavy.. Lat pulls are creeping up too.

Aim is to cut another 5-10 pounds then lean bulk

I was going to ask if you were still on the cut, your progress has been great so far

I pretty much ditched the idea about 2 weeks ago when I was having a crisis (in my head). I decided that I am doing this primarily for strength so have went for more along the maintainence calorie route and seeing where that takes me. As a guy who has weighed in at about 240lbs (of mostly fat) i'm scared at the moment to think about bulking.

[joshdbeard]

thanks man.. and yeah its hard mentally missing one, throws out my week totally LOL.... and as for my losses I would love to see how my lifts respond eating at a 100-200 cal surplus... oh well that will come in time I guess

At this point, I don't think I mentally can miss one. When Monday/Wednesday/Friday's roll around I crave the trip to the gym. At this rate I will be working out on Christmas...assuming my gym is open. Uh oh...those two weeks may have to be Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday.

[mannymann]

At this point, I don't think I mentally can miss one. When Monday/Wednesday/Friday's roll around I crave the trip to the gym. At this rate I will be working out on Christmas...assuming my gym is open. Uh oh...those two weeks may have to be Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday.

I'm on a half self imposed, half personal life imposed deload week. Don't get me wrong, the first 2 days I felt much better after it but now I'm itching to get back into it on Sunday

[guessmyusername]

Noob question, but does it matter if we go high bar or low bar on back squats? I kind of assume it was designed for low-bar, since you have front squats on the B day, but I haven't ever done them before. If I need to, I will learn, though! Hoping to start this Monday. It looks like fun.