"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[FearIsGood]

There is no issue with you not doing the supersets. As for starting with a 8-10 rep max for sets of 5...this is done so that you don't fail. Running your lifts to failure is a mistake. You can run the program any way you like, but using a 5RM would be a mistake. The progression would eat you alive. If you just continued to follow the progression as is you'll be struggling in no time.

What do you mean by "The progression would eat you alive" and "mistake"? Also, should I workout if I'm still sore? My workout is something like this Mon/wed/Fri do you think muscles like the legs and back need more time to recover?

[unstrong]

1. That depends on on several factors. We'll discuss this next. For future reference I advise a back squat

2. I'm liking the front squat/RDL swapped for DL/leg curl more and more lately. With this in mind, if you want to alternate between front and low bar then I'd do exactly that. Swap the DL/leg curl for a front squat/RDL. This way you'll do a low bar squat on workout A and do a front squat and RDL on workout B.

3. If you don't do the swap listed above then the stance you take on a DL doesn't matter.

4. This is complicated. You'll be adding more volume and changing rep ranges. I also have no clue how hard you are working. I'm not pulling/pushing the weight ya know. Dropping 10% wouldn't kill ya to be safe. It'll be put right back on in less than 3 weeks...work on your form during this time and come back strong.

Good luck

Awesome, gonna do this with the RDL/front squat substitution and start a log next week.

EDIT: One more question on that modified programming...
5x3 on front squats? 5, 8, or 10 reps for RDL?

[davisj3537]

What do you mean by "The progression would eat you alive" and "mistake"? Also, should I workout if I'm still sore? My workout is something like this Mon/wed/Fri do you think muscles like the legs and back need more time to recover?

Alright, take a step back for a moment and think about one thing. Don't you think that if this program was better by making the changes that you have suggested I would have designed it that way in the first place? Your suggestions make the program less effective. Don't try and reinvent the wheel dude.

As for the progression question you asked. If you are working to failure every set, then how in the world would you be able to add weight every week? You wouldn't be able to keep up with progression (weight increases.)

Awesome, gonna do this with the RDL/front squat substitution and start a log next week.

EDIT: One more question on that modified programming...
5x3 on front squats? 5, 8, or 10 reps for RDL?

3x5 front squats and 3x8 RDL is a good guideline. Let me know when your log is up, I'd like to see someone actually keep up with a F5 log.

[tsraponi]

That depends on what your 1arm DB row looks like. I attached a video of how to do a pendlay row in the FAQ.

My DB row looks something like this:

youtube (cant post links...) /watch?v=1gOYkpfT9Hc

[unstrong]

My DB row looks something like this:

youtube (cant post links...) /watch?v=1gOYkpfT9Hc

FYI you can embed YT videos even without 50 posts. I got you here, but for future reference it's [ youtube] EVERYTHING AFTER THE EQUAL SIGN[/ youtube]

[davisj3537]

My DB row looks something like this:

youtube (cant post links...) /watch?v=1gOYkpfT9Hc

That isn't bad. I feel it would be better suited to this program if you held the DB like a barbell instead of a hammer style grip. It will help facilitate your elbow flaring out. Touching your chest with the DB is another good idea. Aim to touch where your pecs meet your abs.

[CagedInSanity]

Hey so I barely failed OHP today on 3rd set. I read your reasons why you think resetting is a good idea but I made it to 6/8 reps and I am eager to stay on track. If the only issues are psychological (me not liking to fail and associating negative feelings with the lift), then I would prefer to just redo the same weight next week instead of progressing or setting my weights back 15%.

If it will cause real problems I'll listen to you though lol

[davisj3537]

Hey so I barely failed OHP today on 3rd set. I read your reasons why you think resetting is a good idea but I made it to 6/8 reps and I am eager to stay on track. If the only issues are psychological (me not liking to fail and associating negative feelings with the lift), then I would prefer to just redo the same weight next week instead of progressing or setting my weights back 15%.

If it will cause real problems I'll listen to you though lol

It isn't a black and white scenario. There is wiggle room in everything. Keeping the same weight for a week instead of dropping 15% isn't gonna kill ya. OHP will always be a hard lift to get your sets on. If you fail on your next OHP workout I would certainly drop 15%. If you rest up, eat accordingly and give it 100% you'll get it though.

Edit: Just saw your goals. They look like good goals. Good luck on the OHP.

[OnedayHEHE]

What curl workout am I supposed to do when im doing supersets?

[davisj3537]

What curl workout am I supposed to do when im doing supersets?

Surprise me

[Mak1n]

Hey guys, hey davisj3537
first of all thanks for routine.

Question 1: Reverse flies - as I understood you recommend doing DB or cable crossover version? Can you please recommend videos/articles for proper form, I have never done this exercise before.

Question 2: Pendlay rows - why I nobody is ever doing them? And do I have to drop barbel on the floor on negatives with loud sound? Or I can do it in a controlled manner?

[FearIsGood]

Alright, take a step back for a moment and think about one thing. Don't you think that if this program was better by making the changes that you have suggested I would have designed it that way in the first place? Your suggestions make the program less effective. Don't try and reinvent the wheel dude.

As for the progression question you asked. If you are working to failure every set, then how in the world would you be able to add weight every week? You wouldn't be able to keep up with progression (weight increases.)

Thanks for clearing it for me, another thing, about the benchpress, should I do it on a flat bench or the incline or decline one?? And about leg curls, you mean the Prone Leg Curl or Leg extension??

[davisj3537]

Hey guys, hey davisj3537
first of all thanks for routine.

Question 1: Reverse flies - as I understood you recommend doing DB or cable crossover version? Can you please recommend videos/articles for proper form, I have never done this exercise before.

Question 2: Pendlay rows - why I nobody is ever doing them? And do I have to drop barbel on the floor on negatives with loud sound? Or I can do it in a controlled manner?

You can set down pendlays in a controlled manner.

Thanks for clearing it for me, another thing, about the benchpress, should I do it on a flat bench or the incline or decline one?? And about leg curls, you mean the Prone Leg Curl or Leg extension??

Do flat bench. If you look at the names of the leg exercises you posted you should see your answer.

[UnknownPreacher]

I recently made a new routine and just want some feedback. I saw this topic yesterday and noticed my routine looks kinda like this only that i have a little bit more exercises (which i can complete). I'm working from home so i have no machines avaliable. Still would love to hear some feedback from you davis. My goals are gains and strength in that order.
Monday
front squat ATG 3x8-10
Romanian Deadlift 3x8-10
DB lunges 3x10-12
hamstring raise 3x10-12
calf raise 3x8
hanging leg raises 2x10
ab routine 2 cycles

Tuesday
Flat bench press 3x8-10
Bent over barbell row 3x8-10
Overhead DB press 3x10-12
Reverse flys 3x10-12<-- i'm gonna superset it with some tricep exercise, preferably my left tricep because it's really lacking
Chin up 3x10-12
Dips 2x12
DB curls 3x10-12

Thursday
front squat ATG 3x8-10
Romanian Deadlift 3x8-10
DB lunges 3x10-12
hamstring raise 3x10-12
calf raise 3x8
hanging leg raises 2x10
ab routine 2 cycles

Friday
Flat bench press 3x8-10
Bent over barbell row 3x8-10
Incline DB bench press 3x10-12
Reverse flys superset left arm DB tricep extension!
Pull up 3x10-12
Dips 2x12
DB curls 3x10-12

what do you think?

[davisj3537]

1. That program is not similar to this one.
2. This is not a "critique my program" thread man, you should start your own thread for that. PM the link if you like.

[GainAfterPain]

First week, but is it normal that I don't feel tooooooooo exhausted?

Squats: 45kg
Bench: 40kg
Pendlay: 25
reverse flies: 12

[tsraponi]

Hey dude, I'm absolutely loving your program. I've been progressing well, and I feel great. Much appreciation for the tips and help, too.

Another question.. What's the benefit of super setting two workouts (ex. 2*10 barbell curl / 2*12 sit ups) instead of just doing each workout separately, and for more sets (ex 3*10 barbell curl / 3*12 situps).

[whateversclever]

Loving this program. Really builds my confidence and challenges me. The progression rate is perfect for me and I'm ultimately just excited for the next time I get to go to the gym.

Edited for redundancy

[davisj3537]

Gain- that is normal. You'll be struggling in no time. You don't have to feel exhausted to grow muscles.

Tsraponi- super setting saves time. I don't advise adding extra sets.

Clever- good to hear man. Keep it up!

[scoutkb]

You are more than welcome to use a belt. You should keep in mind that deadlifts will cause injuries if your form is bad. A belt won't fix bad form...you'll still get injured. Take some video of your deadlift from the side and post it or PM it to me. This forum is very helpful when it comes to form critiques.

Hi Davis, I went ahead and had someone record my deadlift. I'll PM you the link, can you please provide some feedback? Thanks so much in advance!

[ottawatim]

Think I'm going to start this program on Monday. Just completed 12 weeks of HRT Solo. Will be cutting while on this. Thanks for taking the time to put this together and answering the questions.

[ZeusTheBeast]

Hey, solid routine, i wanted to get your opinion on something though, i like your set up however i would like to change it up slightly and would like to get your thoughts on it, my reasons for the changes are, first i would like to work with a wider variety of rep ranges, and second i would like to progress at least in reps workout to workout, btw i will replace the DL/Leg curl combo with the Front squat/RDL combo since i think its better for my goals, but anyways here is what im thinking.

Workout A1
Squat 3x6-8
Bench 3x6-8
Pendlay Rows 3x8-10
Face Pulls 3x8-10
Calf Raises 2x12-14/Skullcrushers 2x10-12

Workout B1
Front Squat 3x6-8
OHP 3x6-8
Chin-Ups 3x8-10
RDL 3x8-10
Crunches 2x12-14/Barbell Curls 2x10-12

Workout A2
Squat 3x6-8
Bench 3x6-8
Pendlay Rows 3x8-10
Face Pulls 3x8-10
Calf Raises 2x12-14/Skullcrushers 2x10-12

Workout B2
Front Squat 3x6-8
OHP 3x6-8
Chin-Ups 3x8-10
RDL 3x8-10
Leg Raises 2x12-14/Barbell Curls 2x10-12


The progression im thinking of doing is on the 6-8 exercises, first workout ima try for 6,6,6, then second workout 7,7,7, finally last workout 8,8,8, once i get that i increase the weight by 5 on all exercises except maybe the squat which i might increase by 10 if the 8 reps felt easy, same type of progression for the 8-10, 10-12, and 12-14 exercises. What do you think about this idea, and do you think it would work also?, again not bashing your routine whatsoever, i love the set up, i just wanted to get your thoughts on this particular way of doing it, since i feel it tailors more for my particular goals, thanks.

[Monyistbitu]

Hey davis,

What's your thoughts on running this program every other day? As in you skip the extra day on the weekend, and fit in 4 workouts in an 8 day period.

Day 1 - Workout A
Day 2 -
Day 3 - Workout A
Day 4 -
Day 5 - Workout B
Day 6 -
Day 7 - Workout A
Day 8 -
Day 9 - Workout B etc etc

[UnknownPreacher]

Just wondering... why isn't this a sticky? Out of all beginner/novice routines listed in here this one seems the best. Why? Because it doesn't have just main exercises to which people add isolation work anyway. It's a full setup more or less.

[ottawatim]

Hey davis,

What's your thoughts on running this program every other day? As in you skip the extra day on the weekend, and fit in 4 workouts in an 8 day period.

Day 1 - Workout A
Day 2 -
Day 3 - Workout A
Day 4 -
Day 5 - Workout B
Day 6 -
Day 7 - Workout A
Day 8 -
Day 9 - Workout B etc etc

He has already started that he doesn't recommend this. The extra rest day it's there for a reason. Rest is just as important as gym time. Rushing things won't help.

[HDiddy747]

He has already started that he doesn't recommend this. The extra rest day it's there for a reason. Rest is just as important as gym time. Rushing things won't help.

+1

I'm on a different full body A/B split, but I did the A, rest, B, rest, etc.. without 2 days rest for a few weeks and burned out fairly quickly.
I hit a wall and failed on everything.

After 4 days off I felt great and got back to it.
And I will not be changing important aspects of the program such as rest anymore.

[CagedInSanity]

Just wondering... why isn't this a sticky? Out of all beginner/novice routines listed in here this one seems the best. Why? Because it doesn't have just main exercises to which people add isolation work anyway. It's a full setup more or less.

It's too young right now.

[Wicked12]

Hi everyone!

I just registered here today and have already posted in the AllPro-thread. Here's a quick summary of who I am and what I want to achieve:

I used to be a 5 and 10 k runner (best 5k 18:55min), so you can pretty much imagine what I look like. As of now I do not do any sports and haven't been doing any for quite a while, however, I haven't gained any weight.
I never really needed any muscles to run fast. I am 19 years old, 6 feet 4 and extremely skinny, I'm talking 144 lbs skinny. I have finally decided to gain some weight for several reasons (confidence, feel better, etc..) and read quite a few articles on the internet (about working out and gaining weight as a skinny guy) and eventually stumbled upon the AllPro program where someone mentioned this program. I feel like this would be a good start and I'm pretty excited to get started right after my exams, which is next week. I think I would be very happy if I was able to gain about 20 lbs of mostly muscle, which would still be pretty skinny, but much more in shape.

In the other thread people answered very fast and nicely. I am just not sure where to start.
They told me that it might be a good idea for me to start with Starting Strength, which to be honest I am not totally sure what exactely it is (if I'm not mistaken it's a book, but do I have to buy the book or just do a workout out of that book?).
So right now I am wondering whether I should do that or jump right into either this or AllPros program. Do you guys have any suggestion on which one would be better for me and whether I should do the Starting Strength workout (or buy the book if that is necessary) or not?

Also, they said that I should not start changing my diet until I've been working out for a month or so since I wouldn't be able to build muscle in that time anyways. Is that correct or should I start changing my diet as soon as I start working out? I will have to change my eating habits a lot, since I do not quiet eat a lot at the moment.

Any advice is appreciated!

[DubCuda]

Hi everyone!

I just registered here today and have already posted in the AllPro-thread. Here's a quick summary of who I am and what I want to achieve:

I used to be a 5 and 10 k runner (best 5k 18:55min), so you can pretty much imagine what I look like. As of now I do not do any sports and haven't been doing any for quite a while, however, I haven't gained any weight.
I never really needed any muscles to run fast. I am 19 years old, 6 feet 4 and extremely skinny, I'm talking 144 lbs skinny. I have finally decided to gain some weight for several reasons (confidence, feel better, etc..) and read quite a few articles on the internet (about working out and gaining weight as a skinny guy) and eventually stumbled upon the AllPro program where someone mentioned this program. I feel like this would be a good start and I'm pretty excited to get started right after my exams, which is next week. I think I would be very happy if I was able to gain about 20 lbs of mostly muscle, which would still be pretty skinny, but much more in shape.

In the other thread people answered very fast and nicely. I am just not sure where to start.
They told me that it might be a good idea for me to start with Starting Strength, which to be honest I am not totally sure what exactely it is (if I'm not mistaken it's a book, but do I have to buy the book or just do a workout out of that book?).
So right now I am wondering whether I should do that or jump right into either this or AllPros program. Do you guys have any suggestion on which one would be better for me and whether I should do the Starting Strength workout (or buy the book if that is necessary) or not?

Also, they said that I should not start changing my diet until I've been working out for a month or so since I wouldn't be able to build muscle in that time anyways. Is that correct or should I start changing my diet as soon as I start working out? I will have to change my eating habits a lot, since I do not quiet eat a lot at the moment.

Any advice is appreciated!

You should change your diet now and thats bullchit that you won't build any muscle in the first month of weightlifting. You need to start bulking up too, I suggest you read the thread "Calculating Calories and Macronutrients" (I can't post links) if you haven't already, has very useful info about nutrition.

[davisj3537]

Hi Davis, I went ahead and had someone record my deadlift. I'll PM you the link, can you please provide some feedback? Thanks so much in advance!

Looks good bud.

Think I'm going to start this program on Monday. Just completed 12 weeks of HRT Solo. Will be cutting while on this. Thanks for taking the time to put this together and answering the questions.

Good luck to ya

Hey, solid routine, i wanted to get your opinion on something though, i like your set up however i would like to change it up slightly and would like to get your thoughts on it, my reasons for the changes are, first i would like to work with a wider variety of rep ranges, and second i would like to progress at least in reps workout to workout, btw i will replace the DL/Leg curl combo with the Front squat/RDL combo since i think its better for my goals, but anyways here is what im thinking.

Workout A1
Squat 3x6-8
Bench 3x6-8
Pendlay Rows 3x8-10
Face Pulls 3x8-10
Calf Raises 2x12-14/Skullcrushers 2x10-12

Workout B1
Front Squat 3x6-8
OHP 3x6-8
Chin-Ups 3x8-10
RDL 3x8-10
Crunches 2x12-14/Barbell Curls 2x10-12

Workout A2
Squat 3x6-8
Bench 3x6-8
Pendlay Rows 3x8-10
Face Pulls 3x8-10
Calf Raises 2x12-14/Skullcrushers 2x10-12

Workout B2
Front Squat 3x6-8
OHP 3x6-8
Chin-Ups 3x8-10
RDL 3x8-10
Leg Raises 2x12-14/Barbell Curls 2x10-12


The progression im thinking of doing is on the 6-8 exercises, first workout ima try for 6,6,6, then second workout 7,7,7, finally last workout 8,8,8, once i get that i increase the weight by 5 on all exercises except maybe the squat which i might increase by 10 if the 8 reps felt easy, same type of progression for the 8-10, 10-12, and 12-14 exercises. What do you think about this idea, and do you think it would work also?, again not bashing your routine whatsoever, i love the set up, i just wanted to get your thoughts on this particular way of doing it, since i feel it tailors more for my particular goals, thanks.

Really the only things you've changed are the reps and progression. The reps don't matter much. If you'd like to do those rep ranges it'll still work fine. The progression you've listed is about twice as slow as the suggested progression. If you want slower progression then that is fine too. I do think you are over thinking this though.

Hey davis,

What's your thoughts on running this program every other day? As in you skip the extra day on the weekend, and fit in 4 workouts in an 8 day period.

Day 1 - Workout A
Day 2 -
Day 3 - Workout A
Day 4 -
Day 5 - Workout B
Day 6 -
Day 7 - Workout A
Day 8 -
Day 9 - Workout B etc etc

The guys already answered this one for me. You'll want that extra rest day before upping weight. It is no coincidence powerlifters take a few extra rest days before a break...we are stronger after this longer break.

Hi everyone!

I just registered here today and have already posted in the AllPro-thread. Here's a quick summary of who I am and what I want to achieve:

I used to be a 5 and 10 k runner (best 5k 18:55min), so you can pretty much imagine what I look like. As of now I do not do any sports and haven't been doing any for quite a while, however, I haven't gained any weight.
I never really needed any muscles to run fast. I am 19 years old, 6 feet 4 and extremely skinny, I'm talking 144 lbs skinny. I have finally decided to gain some weight for several reasons (confidence, feel better, etc..) and read quite a few articles on the internet (about working out and gaining weight as a skinny guy) and eventually stumbled upon the AllPro program where someone mentioned this program. I feel like this would be a good start and I'm pretty excited to get started right after my exams, which is next week. I think I would be very happy if I was able to gain about 20 lbs of mostly muscle, which would still be pretty skinny, but much more in shape.

In the other thread people answered very fast and nicely. I am just not sure where to start.
They told me that it might be a good idea for me to start with Starting Strength, which to be honest I am not totally sure what exactely it is (if I'm not mistaken it's a book, but do I have to buy the book or just do a workout out of that book?).
So right now I am wondering whether I should do that or jump right into either this or AllPros program. Do you guys have any suggestion on which one would be better for me and whether I should do the Starting Strength workout (or buy the book if that is necessary) or not?

Also, they said that I should not start changing my diet until I've been working out for a month or so since I wouldn't be able to build muscle in that time anyways. Is that correct or should I start changing my diet as soon as I start working out? I will have to change my eating habits a lot, since I do not quiet eat a lot at the moment.

Any advice is appreciated!

All Pros is a great program, but I think a bulking beginner can handle much faster progression. The Starting Strength book and program are good. Some people get bored with SS since the workouts are so short. I feel this program addresses those small flaws in the other programs. Whatever program you pick will provide you with great progress given that your diet is in order.

As for your diet advice...that was very bad advice. You'll want to get your diet in order immediately. You'll build muscle faster during your first 6 weeks than any other time in your entire lifting career. Take a look through the FAQ in post #4. There is a question about diet. Follow the link and read all about macronutrients. You'll want to bulk to gain weight so I advise adding roughly 20% to your maintenance number.

Good luck.