"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[fatalerror786]

Just wondering whether for the lat pulldown i should use wide grip overhand or underhand?

Thanks

[connorpat1995]

What if I fail a lift the week I'm doing it only once?

The program says I have to fail a lift twice so reduce the weight 15%. If I fail bench press the week I'm doing B-A-B, should I increase weight again although I have failed the lift? Common sense says no.

retry the same weight you failed at. If you fail again at that weight, take 15% off the bar next time

[JanterFixx]

Davis might disagree but i'd say take a deload if you haven't in a while, so work with 50% of weight for next week. Then go back to your current lifts and if you fail twice then reduce by 15% as per the protocol for resetting. At this weight, slow the progression down and you should be fine.

I'll wait his word also on it, otherwise your solution seems reasonable

I haven't had a proper deload yet. Had one extra day of "rest" about month ago, due work had to be done, and about twice taken a bit more lightly on accessory lifts if I haven't slept over 6h and had fast and busy day.

[davisj3537]

I went to the gym to find my one rep max for the compound exercises. I got 155 lbs on bench, 135 lbs inclined bench, and 205 lbs on squat,. Does 130 lbs, 110 lbs, and 175 lbs for my working sets on bench, inclined bench, and squat sound good? I know the faq says to go 50% lighter than what you think, but that's why I went to find out my maxes. I didn't like the idea of just guessing somewhere I think I should be. I thought that I'd max out at 100-110 lbs on bench, but was able to do 155 lbs. And just to clarify, if I choose 130 lbs as my working set for bench that means I will be doing three sets of 130 lbs with five presses in each set?

I didn't mention my max for front squat because I think I am doing them all wrong. I was only able to get up to 105 lbs before I felt like my form was bad, so I stopped there. I started with just the bar for a warm up set and to practice form. I felt I was able to keep my elbows up, have a good leg/foot stance, and keep the bar parallel with my feet. I did another warm up set of 65 lbs and didn't feel tired, so I went to 105. Once I got to 105 I felt a LOT of pressure on my wrists after I got done squating. It felt fine as I was lifting the weight, but after I racked the bar my wrists hurt a lot more than I thought they should. Any advice to help prevent this? I don't know if 105 is just too heavy or if having a bad form is the cause of it. I know I can sub out front squat and RDL, but they both seem fun and I'd like to get the hang of them.

I also felt like 80 lbs was a good working set for lat pull downs for me. Should I keep that at my working set or adjust it?

Sorry for so many questions in one post.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt doing this. That's why I don't advise it.

Your working sets sound too high. Reduce them by another 15%.

Try the cross arm grip for front squat.

Hi Davis and other good people!

Need a bit of advice. I already read quite much, but it isn't still 100% clear to me, so I ask from my point of view - sorry if it has already answered many times!

I try to be brief and clear:

Just started my 8th week.

- I have failed BP (80kg) twice in a row now (yesterday managed to do first set, but failed on 2nd)
- My 105kg squat also started to get a bit heavy and on third set I lost form. (100kg last week was very nice, also lower body isn't lagging)
- I am also on a cut.

What do you recommend.

Should I take deload week = work with 50% weights next 3-4 sessions?
then start with 75% weights from all lifts (or main/compound) and work my way up again (progressing as program says 5lb up and 10lb low every week)

then if I have reached my current weights I will follow advice "increasing weight half as much as the program calls for".

best of all and thanks in advance!

Deload and still take 15% off of your weights when you come back.

Just wondering whether for the lat pulldown i should use wide grip overhand or underhand?

Thanks

I like overhand, but you could do a close grip underhand if you want.

[Intervals]

My tweaked routine. Advice or anything I should add/drop or change order of? I'm doing my workouts from top down.

Workout A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Cable rows 3x8 (Sub for pendlays)
Cable Face Pulls 3x8 (Sub for reverse flys)
Calf raises 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x8

Workout B

Front Squat 3x5
Military Press 3x5 (Sub for incline bench)
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Pullups 5x5 (Sub for lat pulldowns)
Abs 3x8
Curls 3x8

[JanterFixx]

Deload and still take 15% off of your weights when you come back.

Thanks for the advice Davis and VanillaBear!

(I mistypod, should have typed @ 85%, somehow managed 100-15% = 75% (*shameonme*)

[username941]

Program looks fun. Would it be alright if I did cardio and abs on my off days 3 times a week as well? So MWF would be weight days, and TThS would be cardio/ab days with Sunday being a rest day. If this is alright, what would be a substitute for the the abs scheduled for workout B?

[davisj3537]

My tweaked routine. Advice or anything I should add/drop or change order of? I'm doing my workouts from top down.

Workout A

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Cable rows 3x8 (Sub for pendlays)
Cable Face Pulls 3x8 (Sub for reverse flys)
Calf raises 3x8
Skullcrushers 3x8

Workout B

Front Squat 3x5
Military Press 3x5 (Sub for incline bench)
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Pullups 5x5 (Sub for lat pulldowns)
Abs 3x8
Curls 3x8

Looks good to me bud. Good luck

Program looks fun. Would it be alright if I did cardio and abs on my off days 3 times a week as well? So MWF would be weight days, and TThS would be cardio/ab days with Sunday being a rest day. If this is alright, what would be a substitute for the the abs scheduled for workout B?

That's fine. Don't go nuts on abs though. Just one workout per off day and it's plenty. There is no sense in giving chest 1 workout 3xweek and abs 3 workouts 3xweek. Make sense?

Lateral raises for ab sub.

[username941]

Appreciate it. Thanks.

[jrpl]

So after all I've decided that Fierce 5 will be my routine to start with my comeback after almost a year break due to various reasons. I hope I'm not too old for that. Though I think for now the best idea will be to build good strength base for like 6 months and I will move from there if needed.

So some basic question - how to threat first few workouts, in like two weeks or something. Hammer it all like there is no tomorrow, or maybe start with reduced number sets or just maybe light weight and just see how it goes?

[davisj3537]

So after all I've decided that Fierce 5 will be my routine to start with my comeback after almost a year break due to various reasons. I hope I'm not too old for that. Though I think for now the best idea will be to build good strength base for like 6 months and I will move from there if needed.

So some basic question - how to threat first few workouts, in like two weeks or something. Hammer it all like there is no tomorrow, or maybe start with reduced number sets or just maybe light weight and just see how it goes?

See the FAQs for the answer to your question.

Sounds like you have a good plan otherwise.

[JanterFixx]

Doing deload week. Using lower weights.
It is nice to work on your form, really learned few things. Watched my form and tried to execute movements with precision. It is much easier to observe how your body moves and acts (with lower weights) and if anything is wrong you can try to fix it before moving to bigger weights.

Two guys were giggling at me and pointing fingers since I used 30kg for incline I giggled back!

[Calidream]

Hi,

I'm going to start this routine, i've a few questions that i haven't seen any answer for them.
For B workout, can i do front squat and rdl one day and deadlift and leg curl the other day ? Like:
1st week: A B(front squat - RDL) A
2nd week: B(Deadlift - Leg curl) A B(front squat - RDL) ?

Deadlift seems to be a really great exercise that's why i want to include it. Second question, it's better to substitute triceps pushdowns with overhead dumbell extension, skullcrusher or dips ?

I saw that dips is a good substitute for bench but now for tri's isolation.

Thanks in advance, i'll start the routine tomorrow but the routine seems to be really good, thanks to the author for making it

[connorpat1995]

For B workout, can i do front squat and rdl one day and deadlift and leg curl the other day ?

Second question, it's better to substitute triceps pushdowns with overhead dumbell extension, skullcrusher or dips ?

Stick with DL + leg curl or FS + RDL. The less variety you have the better you can get at the exercises = more weight = more muscle over time
so for example if someone took their RDL from 100 to 200 would have bigger hamstrings than someone who brought their deadlift up but only took their RDL from 100 to 150

SCs and OH DB extensions are great if you can do them pain free. Don't do dips unless you're replacing bench

[Calidream]

Stick with DL + leg curl or FS + RDL. The less variety you have the better you can get at the exercises = more weight = more muscle over time
so for example if someone took their RDL from 100 to 200 would have bigger hamstrings than someone who brought their deadlift up but only took their RDL from 100 to 150

SCs and OH DB extensions are great if you can do them pain free. Don't do dips unless you're replacing bench

Thanks for your reply,

You're right i haven't think about that, i don't know what to do, FS or DL ahah. Thanks i'll try both and see what i'm going to do, yes that's what i saw in your first post.

Thank you

[VanillaBearB]

I think the FS + RDL combo is better for novices. Most people when they start deadlifting don't have the leg strength to keep up with their lower back. This leads to a very lower back heavy deadlift and eventually these people tend to round their backs, myself included.

Get your squat up and your deadlift will follow.

[davisj3537]

Doing deload week. Using lower weights.
It is nice to work on your form, really learned few things. Watched my form and tried to execute movements with precision. It is much easier to observe how your body moves and acts (with lower weights) and if anything is wrong you can try to fix it before moving to bigger weights.

Two guys were giggling at me and pointing fingers since I used 30kg for incline I giggled back!

Good for you.

Guys like that really piss me off. I hate it when people make fun of or put others down for how much they lift. I love making those people feel inadequate working out next to me. Douches.










To the question about alternating FS/RDL and DL/leg curl- I was going to say alternating is fine, but these guys just brought up two good points. Particularly what Connor said about focusing on one set of lifts at a time. Learning the form can be tough and repetition is important to ingrain the proper movement pattern into your form.. If you still wanted to alternate it would be wiser if you did FS/RDL for a few months and then DL/leg curl for a few months. IF you were to do something like that I'd start with the RDL/FS first.

[Calidream]

Thanks everyone for your reply,

I already did some DL but not with crazy weights (90kg), i follow your advice and i'm going to start with FS/RDL, and in a few months i'll switch to DL and Leg curl.

Thanks again

[JanterFixx]

Good for you.

Guys like that really piss me off. I hate it when people make fun of or put others down for how much they lift. I love making those people feel inadequate working out next to me. Douches.

I didn't take them seriously, but thought damn if there are such people who mock others with less confidence (and quite openly).
In my gym I've seen mostly beginners, only few advanced guys, 90% of people seem pretty normal.
The most advanced guys are a) completely concentrated on their own work or
b) give beginners tips on form time-to-time. I've also received some, makes me feel nice.
Beginners just do their stuff and are mostly shy.

But those two douches - they only "did" one exercise, you guessed it - bench press.

I was actually impressed for good 20-30 seconds when I saw they loaded total of 90kg on bar!

DoucheA started to bench (let me tell you - they didn't do ANY warmups) and BOOOM! instantly the bar collapsed on DoucheA's chest when DoucheB took his hands off the bar, DoucheA gave his 100% and his friend DoucheB gave also 80-100%ish, they barely managed to get it up and put it away. And then the most unexpected happened: DoucheB - full on enthusiasm- told do DoucheA:" New Personal Record! Want to try it again?"
"No, not feeling well today" replied DoucheA who was clearly winded or hurt.
Then they switched. I have to give props for DoucheB - he managed to get weight off and down on his own.. but not up, maybe 5-10cm and then it also fell down to his chest they got it up and then again 3 times. DoucheB was happy. They stayed there and started to chat. Only few people in gym, so they were not disturbing anybody that much.

By the time I was working with 5kg dumbbells for bicep curls, they again pointed at me and giggled at my dumbbells. It even felt funny to me at first, but program and body asked for deload, so it has to be, no shame!
I smirked back with confidence and hope these fools won't come in again. If they do and start to pick on other people I will confront them for sure. That is a promise!

It wasn't a fairytale, it was real life. Unbelievable!

[davisj3537]

I didn't take them seriously, but thought damn if there are such people who mock others with less confidence (and quite openly).
In my gym I've seen mostly beginners, only few advanced guys, 90% of people seem pretty normal.
The most advanced guys are a) completely concentrated on their own work or
b) give beginners tips on form time-to-time. I've also received some, makes me feel nice.
Beginners just do their stuff and are mostly shy.

But those two douches - they only "did" one exercise, you guessed it - bench press.

I was actually impressed for good 20-30 seconds when I saw they loaded total of 90kg on bar!

DoucheA started to bench (let me tell you - they didn't do ANY warmups) and BOOOM! instantly the bar collapsed on DoucheA's chest when DoucheB took his hands off the bar, DoucheA gave his 100% and his friend DoucheB gave also 80-100%ish, they barely managed to get it up and put it away. And then the most unexpected happened: DoucheB - full on enthusiasm- told do DoucheA:" New Personal Record! Want to try it again?"
"No, not feeling well today" replied DoucheA who was clearly winded or hurt.
Then they switched. I have to give props for DoucheB - he managed to get weight off and down on his own.. but not up, maybe 5-10cm and then it also fell down to his chest they got it up and then again 3 times. DoucheB was happy. They stayed there and started to chat. Only few people in gym, so they were not disturbing anybody that much.

By the time I was working with 5kg dumbbells for bicep curls, they again pointed at me and giggled at my dumbbells. It even felt funny to me at first, but program and body asked for deload, so it has to be, no shame!
I smirked back with confidence and hope these fools won't come in again. If they do and start to pick on other people I will confront them for sure. That is a promise!

It wasn't a fairytale, it was real life. Unbelievable!

That's irritating. At least you didn't let it bother you. I'd have been tempted to go warm up with their "new personal record."

[WrathfulOne]

Was supposed to increase squats to 90kg yesterday, but wasn't happy with my form and depth on 85kg, so I am repeating it this week. I found the 1st 2 sets OK, but the last set I almost bailed on the 4th and 5th reps. Not sure if that means I am not eating enough or not having enough rest between sets? I usually rest 3 minutes.

I had to deload on rows to 50kg since at 60kg I found it really difficult. I think I might have been increasing at 5kg by mistake on rows over Christmas since the gym was closed for a while and messed with my schedule and I think I got the numbers wrong.

Managed to bench 67.5kg without much problem, so hopefully I will be able to handle 70kg well next week.

Saw the strangest squats ever yesterday - this guy was squatting with his arms stretched out and hands actually resting on top of the plates! Guess he decided shoulder width grip is not for him.

[FitsWannabe]

Was supposed to increase squats to 90kg yesterday, but wasn't happy with my form and depth on 85kg, so I am repeating it this week. I found the 1st 2 sets OK, but the last set I almost bailed on the 4th and 5th reps. Not sure if that means I am not eating enough or not having enough rest between sets? I usually rest 3 minutes.

I had to deload on rows to 50kg since at 60kg I found it really difficult. I think I might have been increasing at 5kg by mistake on rows over Christmas since the gym was closed for a while and messed with my schedule and I think I got the numbers wrong.

Managed to bench 67.5kg without much problem, so hopefully I will be able to handle 70kg well next week.

Saw the strangest squats ever yesterday - this guy was squatting with his arms stretched out and hands actually resting on top of the plates! Guess he decided shoulder width grip is not for him.

We have good day and bad day. Just keep going on and keep squatting! And rest well as well.

Some people just don't have shoulder mobility for squat. But that type of squat is harder since you can't really keep your upper back tight.

[WrathfulOne]

We have good day and bad day. Just keep going on and keep squatting! And rest well as well.

Some people just don't have shoulder mobility for squat. But that type of squat is harder since you can't really keep your upper back tight.

Think I need to get my stance perfect too, I might be moving my feet too far apart and then I completely lose hip drive at the bottom and get stuck and it's a real struggle to get up. Feet should be shoulder width apart but maybe when the weight is heavy I am moving them out too much. Squats are by far my worst lift in terms of enjoyment.

[connorpat1995]

Saw the strangest squats ever yesterday - this guy was squatting with his arms stretched out and hands actually resting on top of the plates! Guess he decided shoulder width grip is not for him.

that's the kind of shoulder issue this program was designed to prevent

Think I need to get my stance perfect too, I might be moving my feet too far apart and then I completely lose hip drive at the bottom and get stuck and it's a real struggle to get up. Feet should be shoulder width apart but maybe when the weight is heavy I am moving them out too much. Squats are by far my worst lift in terms of enjoyment.

many people start with way too wide a stance when squatting. I know I did
feet shoulder width, toes pointed slightly out, not flared way out like rippetoe squats, is a good starting point

[WrathfulOne]

many people start with way too wide a stance when squatting. I know I did
feet shoulder width, toes pointed slightly out, not flared way out like rippetoe squats, is a good starting point

Cheers, I will pay attention to this on my warmups to check what stance I get maximum power from. Like I said, the first 2 sets were OK, but I think what tends to happen is by the 3rd set I think "heavy weight = wider stance required" and I automatically stand wider.

[whackybeanz]

Just wanted to share some things I learned from today's session:

Apparently I placed the bar at where the delts somewhat end (so the less meaty area) when doing front squats previously. I accidentally placed it on a meatier area today and the entire squat just felt so much easier to do and less uncomfortable.

I also attempted a high bar back squat. My frame seems to be destined for low bar only; I have protruding shoulder bones (I think it's called the acromion?), so when I squeeze my shoulder blades together the bar ends up resting on the bone as well, which is really painful of course. Moving it slightly higher up means the bar is almost on my neck, moving it lower is just like low bar... so I guess I'll stick with low bar and improve my form!

Edit: Okay maybe it's the clavicle instead. I'm not sure.

[Deniboy10]

I was wondering whether I could add dips and power cleans in the workout,, together with the other workouts,, I was thinking power cleans since I play rugby in high school (16yrs).Dips on non bench days

[davisj3537]

Just wanted to share some things I learned from today's session:

Apparently I placed the bar at where the delts somewhat end (so the less meaty area) when doing front squats previously. I accidentally placed it on a meatier area today and the entire squat just felt so much easier to do and less uncomfortable.

I also attempted a high bar back squat. My frame seems to be destined for low bar only; I have protruding shoulder bones (I think it's called the acromion?), so when I squeeze my shoulder blades together the bar ends up resting on the bone as well, which is really painful of course. Moving it slightly higher up means the bar is almost on my neck, moving it lower is just like low bar... so I guess I'll stick with low bar and improve my form!

Edit: Okay maybe it's the clavicle instead. I'm not sure.

Sounds like your high bar placement is wrong. It shouldn't touch your collar bone at all. A front squat will though. Glad to hear you got that figured out.

I was wondering whether I could add dips and power cleans in the workout,, together with the other workouts,, I was thinking power cleans since I play rugby in high school (16yrs).Dips on non bench days

If you want to drop incline you can add dips. If you run the DL/leg curl combo you could run cleans in place of DL.



You should have gathered you can't just add sh*t to the routine when you read the FAQs.

[alinavmirza]

95% of people should start with 5lb DBs. If 5lb DBs load your hamstrings and back you're f*cking something up pretty badly. Take a look at the above video. It's a very light weight exercise that shouldn't be stressing anything except for rear delts, rhomboids and mid/lower traps AT MOST.

Thanks for the video link. I tried this one out and it felt much better. I try to keep my shoulders pinched during the movement (saw that on a video on youtube too), is that ok?

Secondly, just confirming, the program says reverse flyes increase 5 lbs per month. So, in between monthly weight increments, are we adding in 2 reps per week to the exercise as per the procedure outlined in the program?

[Jeyloh]

I have subbed Incline BP with OHP as I feel the need to work my shoulders. Does this mean that on BAB weeks I'll only hit chest once, or is OHP adequite for working the chest? Would it be possible to add in Dips instead of triceps, and keep doing OHP?

Original:
Incline BP
Triceps isolation

My question:
OHP
Dips