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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Ttt.
    I got a question.

    Can you use strongman training as weighted GPP early in the off-season like flipping tires and maybe even dragging it because that's what I have access to. Could it be added as an extra day within a program or as a sub for a lower body day?
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  2. #62
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    I got a question.

    Can you use strongman training as weighted GPP early in the off-season like flipping tires and maybe even dragging it because that's what I have access to. Could it be added as an extra day within a program or as a sub for a lower body day?
    Absolutely. You shouldn't need to use a separate workout. Just do them after you're finished in the weight room, as described. You could add an extra day if you wanted to, but I find that people don't sustain high volume conditioning year-round, so I wouldn't.

    If you do add a workout, use concentric only movements to reduce recovery requirements.
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Absolutely. You shouldn't need to use a separate workout. Just do them after you're finished in the weight room, as described. You could add an extra day if you wanted to, but I find that people don't sustain high volume conditioning year-round, so I wouldn't.

    If you do add a workout, use concentric only movements to reduce recovery requirements.
    That's helpful, thanks.

    I was thinking of doing them in the off-season only. Flipping tires would not only improve my lack of physical qualities, but improve mental toughness to.. or so I believe.
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  4. #64
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    That's helpful, thanks.

    I was thinking of doing them in the off-season only. Flipping tires would not only improve my lack of physical qualities, but improve mental toughness to.. or so I believe.
    Since tyre flipping is pretty much concentric only, it fits in quite well anywhere in the program. It's also quite close to a lot of movements used in football, so it can also fit into the Specific Prep period well (Pre-season).

    As far as mental toughness, anything that makes you work past your preconceived limit is great. Tyres are great because one flip can be very difficult, so the "just one more" aspect is very challenging. So, yes. Great for mental toughness.
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    I got a question.

    Can you use strongman training as weighted GPP early in the off-season like flipping tires and maybe even dragging it because that's what I have access to. Could it be added as an extra day within a program or as a sub for a lower body day?
    I started strongman training in order to get better at rugby. 10 years and 60+ strongman competitions later, I'd say that it's the single most effective way to train for sports. Of course, you have to keep up with your fitness.

    Tire flipping has great carry over to rucking and scrummaging. The motion is very similar and your body awareness goes way up. Also, flipping an 800 tire for 10-12 flips is a fitness workout on a whole new level.
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    First of all, thanks for the great post.

    Couple of questions krakkerz if you don't mind.

    So here in the UK the Union season has just finished. We are about 17 weeks out from the start of the new season (early September). How would you programme this relative to your phases? Would you suggest skipping off-season 1 and jump straight into off season 2 with the increased focus on conditioning? I've come straight out of playing a full season during which I was maintaining at 2 weight sessions a week. Club pre season will begin in around 9 weeks, would this be a better time to switch over from off season 1 to 2?

    For the Weighted GPP element, how many of these sessions would you suggest if you are doing 3/week strength sessions?

    What is your opinion on Cycling as a conditioning tool for rugby?
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  7. #67
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cviji View Post
    First of all, thanks for the great post.

    Couple of questions krakkerz if you don't mind.

    So here in the UK the Union season has just finished. We are about 17 weeks out from the start of the new season (early September). How would you programme this relative to your phases? Would you suggest skipping off-season 1 and jump straight into off season 2 with the increased focus on conditioning? I've come straight out of playing a full season during which I was maintaining at 2 weight sessions a week. Club pre season will begin in around 9 weeks, would this be a better time to switch over from off season 1 to 2?

    For the Weighted GPP element, how many of these sessions would you suggest if you are doing 3/week strength sessions?

    What is your opinion on Cycling as a conditioning tool for rugby?
    Shorter offseasons are an issue especially for those who have rep duty. For most players, I'd keep both offseason blocks at 6 weeks each. 3 weeks accumulation, 2 weeks intensification and one week realisation. Then, 5 weeks of preseason.

    For very advanced athletes, you might do as you suggest so as to lengthen the blocks especially preseason. If the prep period was shorter still, that's certainly what I'd do.

    For weighted GPP, I would do it whenever you have been in the gym and don't have an unweighted GPP session planned. It's largely concentric only and so doesn't affect recovery too badly yet adds so much.

    I'm not a massive fan of cycling as a programmed element. But if you enjoy it and can manage it as part of your workload, that's fine.
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  8. #68
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    Do you use indicators in your program krakerz and if so.. what do you use as indicators for your athletes?
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  9. #69
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    Do you use indicators in your program krakerz and if so.. what do you use as indicators for your athletes?
    Most are Rugby players. Rugby (and almost all sports played here) are much "fuzzier" than American Football, basketball, etc. So indicators internal to the S&C program are less important. We just expect to see consistent aggregated improvements over two or so years in the weight room, but don't tie any specific requirements to the weight room program.

    We do more speed and conditioning testing. I've been testing 40s since the mid-90s (most Rugby people test on 30m), pro agility, Yo-Yo test and 1 mile. There are others, but those are the ones used most for our Rugby players.
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  10. #70
    Registered User theFutureD's Avatar
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    Wanted to create few topics on some questions that I needed to be answer.. but instead decided to ask them here. Hopefully it's not a problem.

    What's a good sample plyo progression for a strong and big athlete who's a 2xBW deadlift and close to 2xBW squat? I've some few ideas of my own but I need an outside opinion (qualified one.. which I don't have here) to convert with strength into some power. Was thinking of starting him up with DB squat jumps or maybe power cleans before the main lift as a day for lower body explosive strength, follow it up with some hamstring assistance and core.

    However, I have no clue with the plyometric jump progression which is why I need help. And throw box jumps out of the window because there's no boxes to jump on.
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  11. #71
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    Wanted to create few topics on some questions that I needed to be answer.. but instead decided to ask them here. Hopefully it's not a problem.

    What's a good sample plyo progression for a strong and big athlete who's a 2xBW deadlift and close to 2xBW squat? I've some few ideas of my own but I need an outside opinion (qualified one.. which I don't have here) to convert with strength into some power. Was thinking of starting him up with DB squat jumps or maybe power cleans before the main lift as a day for lower body explosive strength, follow it up with some hamstring assistance and core.

    However, I have no clue with the plyometric jump progression which is why I need help. And throw box jumps out of the window because there's no boxes to jump on.
    OK, easy bit first. Box jumps are really no different to standing verticals. Anywhere you can box jump, you can do a standing vertical.

    If you're not used to plyometrics, you'll have to start reasonably slowly, anyway. As I say, you're unlikely to hurt yourself, but won't get anywhere if your structure fails or your form is poor.

    The quintessential progression is to use box jumps or standing vertical as a mostly concentric movements. From there, introduce depth drops at increasing height. When you can comfortably "stick" the landing with minimal flexion on contact at a decent height (Some any from the height of your vertical, but I think that's unnecessary), you can start depth jumps.

    If you are very strong, you'll want a low box. You're looking for speed off the ground - minimal ground contact time. As you increase height, if you notice a jump in ground contact time, you've gone too far.

    There are obviously a lot of horizontal, lateral and single leg work you can build up to, but this is a standard progression for two legged, vertical work.
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    OK, easy bit first. Box jumps are really no different to standing verticals. Anywhere you can box jump, you can do a standing vertical.

    If you're not used to plyometrics, you'll have to start reasonably slowly, anyway. As I say, you're unlikely to hurt yourself, but won't get anywhere if your structure fails or your form is poor.

    The quintessential progression is to use box jumps or standing vertical as a mostly concentric movements. From there, introduce depth drops at increasing height. When you can comfortably "stick" the landing with minimal flexion on contact at a decent height (Some any from the height of your vertical, but I think that's unnecessary), you can start depth jumps.

    If you are very strong, you'll want a low box. You're looking for speed off the ground - minimal ground contact time. As you increase height, if you notice a jump in ground contact time, you've gone too far.

    There are obviously a lot of horizontal, lateral and single leg work you can build up to, but this is a standard progression for two legged, vertical work.
    Appreciate that you had time to look at this. Thank you.

    Also.. gotta ask about the weighted GPP. How long should the workout be? 15-20 minutes?
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  13. #73
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    Appreciate that you had time to look at this. Thank you.

    Also.. gotta ask about the weighted GPP. How long should the workout be? 15-20 minutes?
    Depends on how you're working. You can use 2 or 3 minute rounds with 1 minute breaks for 20-30 minutes. Longer rounds, too, if you want.

    I like consistent, slow cadence stuff with heavy loads (especially sledge hammer) for 12 minutes. Faster stuff for 8 minutes, or a 4 minute all out sprint.

    You can even find a way to do a VO2Max workout. There is a Dragondoor publication on it for kettlebells, but it can be used with almost anything.
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Depends on how you're working. You can use 2 or 3 minute rounds with 1 minute breaks for 20-30 minutes. Longer rounds, too, if you want.

    I like consistent, slow cadence stuff with heavy loads (especially sledge hammer) for 12 minutes. Faster stuff for 8 minutes, or a 4 minute all out sprint.

    You can even find a way to do a VO2Max workout. There is a Dragondoor publication on it for kettlebells, but it can be used with almost anything.
    So how exactly would a sample workout go?
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  15. #75
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    So how exactly would a sample workout go?
    What's the goal?
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    What's the goal?
    1. For strength/explosiveness

    2. For endurance? (increasing capacity, power endurance... etc)


    I sort of have an idea for the first.. like let's say 3 sets of 5 tire flips with full recovery. However, for latter.. none at all.
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    1. For strength/explosiveness

    2. For endurance? (increasing capacity, power endurance... etc)


    I sort of have an idea for the first.. like let's say 3 sets of 5 tire flips with full recovery. However, for latter.. none at all.
    These workouts aren't for strength/power. Tyre flips would be used within the weight workout in place of say, deadlifts or cleans.

    The weighted GPP workouts are conditioning workouts only. A general capacity workout would be 12 minutes of sledgehammer strikes with increasing density over time.

    A method of improving capacity as well as increasing cadence is to do a few weeks of heavy sledge hits for three minute rounds before switching to lighter hammers for two minute rounds and a fast cadence.

    For general, full body capacity, take a well-loaded wheelbarrow for a walk or get a rucksack and hit the road.

    Generally, you find the work period you want to improve at and build density in that range with a primarily concentric movement.
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    These workouts aren't for strength/power. Tyre flips would be used within the weight workout in place of say, deadlifts or cleans.

    The weighted GPP workouts are conditioning workouts only. A general capacity workout would be 12 minutes of sledgehammer strikes with increasing density over time.

    A method of improving capacity as well as increasing cadence is to do a few weeks of heavy sledge hits for three minute rounds before switching to lighter hammers for two minute rounds and a fast cadence.

    For general, full body capacity, take a well-loaded wheelbarrow for a walk or get a rucksack and hit the road.

    Generally, you find the work period you want to improve at and build density in that range with a primarily concentric movement.
    Aha..misunderstood it then. Still.. you'd get benefits in nearly every quality (strength, power, endurance etc) right?

    I've a tire only available.
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    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    Aha..misunderstood it then. Still.. you'd get benefits in nearly every quality (strength, power, endurance etc) right?

    I've a tire only available.
    You can flip the tyre for GPP work, as well. You can work for density in singles, then doubles, then triples, etc over time. I recommend buying a hammer and hitting the tyre, as well.
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    You can flip the tyre for GPP work, as well. You can work for density in singles, then doubles, then triples, etc over time. I recommend buying a hammer and hitting the tyre, as well.
    Appreciated as always. Yeah.. I may do that one day.
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    Did my first ever Weighted GPP session today. Quite amazing. There were 2 tires... one was at least 225 lbs while the other one was 160 lbs. I did majority of the workout with the lighter one.. because my technique sucked (still does), was finding what stance was I strongest in and one I could get a good grip. The big tire.. I had trouble getting a grip for it and just couldn't do it on the ground. However, I did get few reps with the bigger one once I made an adjustment and put just something below it so I could get a grip like in this video here ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An1UN2ckMow)

    Amazing workout, period. Lungs were on fire, mentally exhausting too. It will do wonders for me... adds the physical qualities I lack yet improves also mental toughness.
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    Its mid season atm, I play 13 / 14 for our premier grade side in WA.

    I find the Texas Method a perfect fit for rugby. A typical week looks like this for me:


    Mon: Squat + Bench volume, Speed deadlift

    Tues: Rugby, usually fitness and skills

    Wed: Light Squat variation, Light Bench variation, Row, GHR

    Thurs: Rugby, usually skills and team run

    Fri: Squat intensity, Bench Intensity, Dead intensity

    Sat: Game day



    Friday's intensity is just a single working top set, doesnt make you sore or fatigued for game day the next day.

    The only hard thing is doing a typical fitness day on tuesday, after volume squats on monday, but ive somewhat accustomed to the workload now
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    Giving this a well deserved bump.

    I've used a template from this for the off season with a WS4SB 3 template and that extra GPP day with additionally a running day added later on. With proper nutrition here, I've made nice improvements in size, strength, vertical etc. This has made a lot of sense and made it into a fantastic way to improve in the off season. The more I think about, the more impressive it is.
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    Giving this a well deserved bump.

    I've used a template from this for the off season with a WS4SB 3 template and that extra GPP day with additionally a running day added later on. With proper nutrition here, I've made nice improvements in size, strength, vertical etc. This has made a lot of sense and made it into a fantastic way to improve in the off season. The more I think about, the more impressive it is.
    Thanks very much for the feedback. And congrats on your improvement.
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    Everytime I link this post to help someone im bumping it.
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    So I have read over some of the articles posted about interval training and I'm not I'm understand them correctly

    for example


    "Week 1 Monday & Friday:
    20 seconds work + 10 seconds recovery: 10X"


    20 seconds of sprinting, 10 seconds of walkling rest
    do that ten times
    training over?
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    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Azrairc View Post
    So I have read over some of the articles posted about interval training and I'm not I'm understand them correctly

    for example


    "Week 1 Monday & Friday:
    20 seconds work + 10 seconds recovery: 10X"


    20 seconds of sprinting, 10 seconds of walkling rest
    do that ten times
    training over?
    That's exactly what it means. But that's also week 11 and 12 of a 12 week program.

    For most people, the first one on the Ashley Jones article listed is the best one to use.
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    That's exactly what it means. But that's also week 11 and 12 of a 12 week program.

    For most people, the first one on the Ashley Jones article listed is the best one to use.
    So with that program you calculate specific distances to run in 40 seconds if I'm understanding it correctly.. what if you beat the time?
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    How do you prefer to separate conditioning and weights/speed? I know for OS1 you can do the weighted GPP right after but for OS2 when the conditioning becomes more intensive, do you seperate it into two workouts in one day (about 4-5 hours apart), on seperate days or still continue to do it right after?

    Thanks for the great thread, it helped a lot!!
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    Originally Posted by Azrairc View Post
    So with that program you calculate specific distances to run in 40 seconds if I'm understanding it correctly.. what if you beat the time?
    You need to pace yourself on the time. If you beat the time, you get an extra couple of seconds rest, but that's not worth doing.
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