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  1. #31
    Banned IamTurkey's Avatar
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    Week 16-28: Off-Season 1: This block is the "Attributes" block. Here, we're concentrating on strength and speed. If players are to gain or lose weight, they do that here, too. Conditioning focus here is for work capacity. If players have a particular weakness in conditioning, they may have remedial conditioning added here or may be moved to Off-Season 2 earlier.

    This is were I start right? I will be joining D1 club rugby team in the fall, though I will be playing developmental. They say anyone can join haha. I will use your program to prepare.

    I decided to use the GST training to bulk up over the summer so I guess I will use that as off season 1 and 2. Do you recommend anything for increasing speed and running. I have never ran on a field. :") My hammies feel tight and I can only take short strides for about 3 minutes before I am panting. I have done HIIT on treadmill but I can see that has no carry over, but since it is the option that is available to me I will keep doing it. I have started focusing on form(after reading and youtubing ) on the treadmill so I hope that carries over onto the field. Do you have any suggestions with this?
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  2. #32
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IamTurkey View Post
    Week 16-28: Off-Season 1: This block is the "Attributes" block. Here, we're concentrating on strength and speed. If players are to gain or lose weight, they do that here, too. Conditioning focus here is for work capacity. If players have a particular weakness in conditioning, they may have remedial conditioning added here or may be moved to Off-Season 2 earlier.

    This is were I start right? I will be joining D1 club rugby team in the fall, though I will be playing developmental. They say anyone can join haha. I will use your program to prepare.

    I decided to use the GST training to bulk up over the summer so I guess I will use that as off season 1 and 2. Do you recommend anything for increasing speed and running. I have never ran on a field. :") My hammies feel tight and I can only take short strides for about 3 minutes before I am panting. I have done HIIT on treadmill but I can see that has no carry over, but since it is the option that is available to me I will keep doing it. I have started focusing on form(after reading and youtubing ) on the treadmill so I hope that carries over onto the field. Do you have any suggestions with this?
    My first comment is that there is little, if anything you can do on a treadmill which will carry over to the field.

    Which phase / block you start with will depend on how far out the season is, how much experience you have and conditioning. When does your season start? Do you feel that you need to work on speed/strength/weight/etc or do you feel you need to work on game stuff more? Those are the questions which you need to answer to know where to start.

    In Australia, GST means Goods and Service Tax. So, I'm not sure what that is.
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  3. #33
    Banned IamTurkey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    In Australia, GST means Goods and Service Tax. So, I'm not sure what that is.
    GST is a program I saw here on the BB forum. It basically focuses on training cycles where you lift weights according to a % of your 1rm. For example 60% 70% 80% 90% for week one. Its like Pull day, Press day, and Legs.

    I guess I will hit the pavement. I need to be able to run I am thinking of focusing on my top speed since I have size 32 inseam legs, haha. Best description I could give. I actually understated how early I would get tired and out of breath on a field, I tried running around the park got through, maybe 20 meters before my legs were tired and I was breathless. (coulda been the pollen though)
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  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    Off-Season1:


    Here, you can select any template you like. There are lots of good ones. 5-3-1, WS4SB, the Bill Starr 5x5s, Starting Strength, old school Westside, the list goes on.

    My favourite is a template I got from an old T-Mag article by Mike Robertson. It's in his "Designer Athletes" article. Over the years, though, I've modified it such that you wouldn't realise where it came from.


    .
    JW if your favorite template was available on the forums. So would the template stay the same if you need to work on your fitness and conditioning. I saw you mentioned that depending on the condition of the player off-season two may be entered sooner. For example I am at week 20, and am doing a 3 day full body split.
    Since I am pretty weak( my 1 rep max on the bench is about 160 and so is my squat) and pretty slow I was thinking based on your information I should move onto Off-season 2. I still don't fully understand the whole thing tbh.

    At this point Offseason 2 I was wondering if I should abandon my 3 day split and do something different. My 3 day split focuses on increasing mass, it rotates workouts based on 1RM% and a different rep scheme each week.


    I just started it 2 months ago so I wasn't sure if I should jump ship too quickly. I was thinking I could keep it and do HIITS on an inclined tread on a rest day or two 2-hour sevens sessions (not sure if they will be focused on conditioning). I would fit these sessions in on the afternoon. So M-lift T-7s W-lift T-7s F-Lift S-Rest S-rest

    I also am thinking that I can maybe start WS4SB3 as you mentioned above and try to adapt it to my equipment restrictions and to a treadmill indoor since it is in the mid 90's recently. In addition attend the two 2 hour sevens training sessions.

    MONDAY – Max-Effort Lower Body
    TUESDAY – 7's
    WEDNESDAY – Max-Effort Upper Body
    THURSDAY – 7's
    FRIDAY – Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
    SATURDAY – Repetition Upper Body
    SUNDAY – OFF

    Alternatively I was also considering doing an 8 week program designed to improve Physical preparedness for the military physical preparedness tests. In addition I would squeeze in the 7s. The program looks like its aimed at reducing BF% and says its for "Those who can’t run two miles without walking or stopping. Those who can’t do 10 pullups. Those who can’t do 20 pushups."
    It seems to be cardio intensive, good for Off-season 2 right? Here is the link if you want to check it out: http://scoobysworkshop.com/get-boot-camp-ready/

    I would most likely be a winger. I want to make the strength gains necessary, but I also want to be able to play a full game, or if it is more realistic at least 30 minutes of continuous play in a 15's union match. In your experience which path seems best. Can I improve conditioning and get stronger physically as well?

    Thanks and thanks for making this thread!
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  5. #35
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Lots of questions. So I will start at the top.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    JW if your favorite template was available on the forums.
    I have no idea. But here it is on T-Nation. Bear in mind I use a very different set of templates which have evolved from here (or more specifically from Ian King's early stuff). I suspect a lot of coaches have done the same.

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...igner_athletes

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    So would the template stay the same if you need to work on your fitness and conditioning.
    Until Off-Season 2, I keep strength and conditioning quite separate. So, no. The template you choose for your work in the weight room doesn't change. Unless, of course, your chosen template interferes with the conditioning work - which it shouldn't if you don't choose a bodybuilding-style split.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    I saw you mentioned that depending on the condition of the player off-season two may be entered sooner.
    That is essentially for an athlete who has a lot of strengths and not too many weaknesses in strength/speed. It's also for players who have spent a portion of their off-season in either rep footy or other sports. For example I am at week 20, and am doing a 3 day full body split.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    Since I am pretty weak( my 1 rep max on the bench is about 160 and so is my squat) and pretty slow I was thinking based on your information I should move onto Off-season 2. I still don't fully understand the whole thing tbh.
    No. Not really. If you feel you are weak and slow, you are a candidate for a longer Off Season 1. It takes longer to develop strength and speed than conditioning. OS2 shifts the focus somewhat to conditioning. Your conditioning will come. In OS1, you can focus on the strength and speed elements while working on skills without needing to worry about fatigue interfering with skill development.


    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    At this point Offseason 2 I was wondering if I should abandon my 3 day split and do something different. My 3 day split focuses on increasing mass, it rotates workouts based on 1RM% and a different rep scheme each week.
    One thing to bear in mind is that the idea of a "Strength" or "Mass" routine is largely garbage except to the most advanced athletes. Use a simple routine designed to improve strength and you will get bigger - assuming your nutrition is in check.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    I just started it 2 months ago so I wasn't sure if I should jump ship too quickly.
    I don't believe in changing routines frequently. If a routine is working, stay with it until it doesn't work any more or until it interferes with sport performance.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    I was thinking I could keep it and do HIITS on an inclined tread on a rest day or two 2-hour sevens sessions (not sure if they will be focused on conditioning). I would fit these sessions in on the afternoon. So M-lift T-7s W-lift T-7s F-Lift S-Rest S-rest
    That is a good way of doing it. If your 7s training is big on running, then you won't want for too much extra conditioning work. By the way, this is more like an OS2 program. That doesn't really matter, though, as 7s will help you pick up the skills required for the 15 man game.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    I also am thinking that I can maybe start WS4SB3 as you mentioned above and try to adapt it to my equipment restrictions
    I wouldn't. It's not really a beginners' program. I think you'd get more out of a linear 5x5 or Starting Strength in the middle term.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    and to a treadmill indoor since it is in the mid 90's recently. In addition attend the two 2 hour sevens training sessions.
    Our summer conditioning sessions were frequently in direct sun at over 100 of your degrees. We had players from 11 up attending. But, I understand you're probably in a colder climate generally. So, knock yourself out.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    Alternatively I was also considering doing an 8 week program designed to improve Physical preparedness for the military physical preparedness tests. In addition I would squeeze in the 7s. The program looks like its aimed at reducing BF% and says its for "Those who can’t run two miles without walking or stopping. Those who can’t do 10 pullups. Those who can’t do 20 pushups."
    It seems to be cardio intensive, good for Off-season 2 right? Here is the link if you want to check it out: http://scoobysworkshop.com/get-boot-camp-ready/
    Um, no. I like Scooby and he's done a lot to help people get in shape - and all for free. But that is not a sport prep program. It seems aimed at getting sedentary people to a given standard to actually be able to start training properly.

    Originally Posted by New2Rugby View Post
    I would most likely be a winger. I want to make the strength gains necessary, but I also want to be able to play a full game, or if it is more realistic at least 30 minutes of continuous play in a 15's union match. In your experience which path seems best. Can I improve conditioning and get stronger physically as well?
    Yes, you can. I think You're thinking too much. At it's core, Rugby is a simple game. And so is conditioning for it. If you're on the wing, conditioning isn't too much of an issue, nowadays. But don't assume where you will be. One of our forwards just move to Inside Centre and has been an absolute revelation.

    At this point in time, get as strong as you can and work on your conditioning. Work on those skills, as well. You'll be fine.

    Stop thinking so much and love the game.
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  6. #36
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Ttt
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  7. #37
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    Started reading this and will give it another look when I have more time, but looks really good. You could also look at position specific training as well. For example the requirements of a prop are going to be a lot different to those of a winger. Paul Pook former Ireland and British and Irish Lions strength and conditioning coach is a good read.

    There are also some useful stats on the IRB website showing details of GPS readings, etc. Distances run, number of sprints, number of collisions that sort of thing.

    Keep up the good work though. Spread the rugby faith!
    Rugby is the game of gods!

    Where else can you have that much fun with 13 other blokes and a hooker?

    BDog
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  8. #38
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Buzzydog View Post
    You could also look at position specific training as well. For example the requirements of a prop are going to be a lot different to those of a winger.
    That's why I said it may ultimately become a book.

    Thanks for reading through.
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  9. #39
    Coconut Member jumbl's Avatar
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    great thread krakkers though im gonna have to sit down with a pen and paper later to properly digest it all.....what would you advise for a guy starting playing again after a massive break? I havent played since school but would love to play next season (wont start til sept)

    currently on a modified 5x5 program and strength is about where i think i could just about physically compete, however its cardio where i'd really suffer, only played 80mins less than 5 times in 4 years
    red crew
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  10. #40
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jumbl View Post
    great thread krakkers though im gonna have to sit down with a pen and paper later to properly digest it all.....what would you advise for a guy starting playing again after a massive break? I havent played since school but would love to play next season (wont start til sept)

    currently on a modified 5x5 program and strength is about where i think i could just about physically compete, however its cardio where i'd really suffer, only played 80mins less than 5 times in 4 years
    For a comeback from a layoff, I'd firstly recommend getting to club training as soon as it starts and not accepting any excuses you can make for not going.

    Aside from that, do the whole training year I've outlined in short blocks. So, the first 2-3 weeks is aerobic and mobility predominantly so that you can work out where the issues are. June for OS1, July for OS2 and August for pre-season. Seems to come together pretty well.

    Alternately, just skip OS1 altogether.
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  11. #41
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    Any recommendations for a fast track program?

    Sevens season starts in about a month and I want to play for the local club. I've played for them in the past but they have an influx of college guys playing so I know that being in the best shape possible is important.

    Since the beginning of the year I have lost about 30 lbs and I've gotten into better shape with some lifting and cardio two-three days a week but I'm still far from sevens shape.

    I figured that I'd shift the focus more towards cardio and start doing some interval training, sprint work and calisthenics at a higher pace than previously.

    Any suggestions on how to get the maximum amount of benefit out of these four weeks?
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  12. #42
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ISWThunder View Post
    Any recommendations for a fast track program?

    Sevens season starts in about a month and I want to play for the local club. I've played for them in the past but they have an influx of college guys playing so I know that being in the best shape possible is important.

    Since the beginning of the year I have lost about 30 lbs and I've gotten into better shape with some lifting and cardio two-three days a week but I'm still far from sevens shape.

    I figured that I'd shift the focus more towards cardio and start doing some interval training, sprint work and calisthenics at a higher pace than previously.

    Any suggestions on how to get the maximum amount of benefit out of these four weeks?
    Sorry, I missed this one earlier.

    You've lost a few of those weeks now, so I hope you found something that has worked for you.

    If I had gotten to this, I would have suggested you jump straight in at the pre-season end. I would suggest two days per week in the weight room and a focus on intervals, as your aerobic fitness is likely to be OK.

    I'd be looking at this program http://hybridfitness.wordpress.com/2...rvals-phase-4/ (which is a version of the interval training described in the off-season 2 part) or the first one on this page http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...-rugby-player/ - depending on your weaknesses.

    Some people could manage both - with 2 sessions from the first program and one from the second
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  13. #43
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    I'm looking to get back into playing rugby, I'm going to log your year-round philosophy in the "sports journals" section. As I've really stepped away from training for the better part of two years now I'm going to start with the recovery phase as I can tell my mobility and flexibility are almost non-existent and I had a rugby season end (a few years back) because of a foot/knee injury that still causes issues when not properly "pre-habbed".

    In terms of the longer conditioning sessions in the recovery phase, what type of frequency and length of sessions do you recommend? My plan of attack is to start with rowing/swimming as I've found these in the past to cause the least amount of stress on my knee, transitioning into incline treadmill walking/hiking, and eventually running.

    YTWL Spinal Breathing + Limber 11 + Knee Prehab + PVC Work (OH Squat, Shoulder Dislocations, etc.) @ 2x per day
    VT1 Endurance @ 1x every other day


    Cheers,

    The flanker who got fat
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  15. #45
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by athletesfirst View Post
    I'm looking to get back into playing rugby, I'm going to log your year-round philosophy in the "sports journals" section. As I've really stepped away from training for the better part of two years now I'm going to start with the recovery phase as I can tell my mobility and flexibility are almost non-existent and I had a rugby season end (a few years back) because of a foot/knee injury that still causes issues when not properly "pre-habbed".

    In terms of the longer conditioning sessions in the recovery phase, what type of frequency and length of sessions do you recommend? My plan of attack is to start with rowing/swimming as I've found these in the past to cause the least amount of stress on my knee, transitioning into incline treadmill walking/hiking, and eventually running.

    YTWL Spinal Breathing + Limber 11 + Knee Prehab + PVC Work (OH Squat, Shoulder Dislocations, etc.) @ 2x per day
    VT1 Endurance @ 1x every other day


    Cheers,

    The flanker who got fat
    Congratulations on choosing the best Rugby prep program on the internet!

    As far as the Cardio Rehab phase goes, Comana recommends 12-15 sessions over 4-6 weeks. I, personally think you can get these in over 3-4 weeks. The recommendation in the literature is between 20 and 26 minutes. However, I think most Rugby players get more out of 30-40 minutes.

    An interval-based routine is ideal. Comana recommends setting up two zones - each 10bpm either side of your estimated VT1 - with the lower zone representing rest and the upper zone representing work. From there, increase from 3 minute work intervals with 2 minute rest (3:2) to 6:1 over the time.

    If you retest the estimated VT1 at that point, you can expect to see a change of 5 or more bpm. That can be very telling in-gae as far as recovery is concerned.

    I like the mobility work you've listed. Not sure I'd be able to stick with it twice per day, but I'm sure you'll manage well.
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    Awesome! Thanks!!
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  17. #47
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    Im giving this a well needed bump!
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    bump
    Estimated 1Rep Max at ~204lbs

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  19. #49
    Registered User amar654's Avatar
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    SO I am about to start the conditioning that is recommended in this post from the site;http://www.trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml.
    So when doing this RPE conditioning on the treadmill should I strive to increase resistance when I can (AKA going from 7-8 on the speed setting) or keep the speed setting the same throughout all three phases as the rest decreases, and then after getting through all 3 phases increase speed?
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  20. #50
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    Great post!
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  21. #51
    Registered User krakkerz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by amar654 View Post
    SO I am about to start the conditioning that is recommended in this post from the site;http://www.trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml.
    So when doing this RPE conditioning on the treadmill should I strive to increase resistance when I can (AKA going from 7-8 on the speed setting) or keep the speed setting the same throughout all three phases as the rest decreases, and then after getting through all 3 phases increase speed?
    I realise this is a bit late, but always as fast/hard as you can maintain for the full period. That means increasing whenever you can.
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  22. #52
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  23. #53
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    Great thread.

    This is really great info
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  24. #54
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  25. #55
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    I'm going to use some of this into the off-season when it comes.

    BTW.. what are your thoughts on resistance sprints? I don't have access to the fancy stuff... and while looking for a hill to do some hill sprints, this will come as another good tool IMO. Getting a med ball too.
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  26. #56
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    Originally Posted by theFutureD View Post
    I'm going to use some of this into the off-season when it comes.

    BTW.. what are your thoughts on resistance sprints? I don't have access to the fancy stuff... and while looking for a hill to do some hill sprints, this will come as another good tool IMO. Getting a med ball too.
    I don't use resistance sprints for the most part. I simply don't see results from it except in a couple of very advanced athletes working on top speed for 200/400 where I have used some parachutes. I never sprint with sleds, etc.

    I do use hill sprints for conditioning and some acceleration drills.
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    Originally Posted by krakkerz View Post
    I don't use resistance sprints for the most part. I simply don't see results from it except in a couple of very advanced athletes working on top speed for 200/400 where I have used some parachutes. I never sprint with sleds, etc.

    I do use hill sprints for conditioning and some acceleration drills.
    I mean using resistance sprints for short distances like 10 meters with full recovery for improving explosiveness.

    And just for some extra knowledge... how do you utilize the sleds?
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  28. #58
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    Are you a strength & conditioning coach for a team?
    I ain't here to put shoes on caterpillars
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  29. #59
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    Originally Posted by McFlavour View Post
    Are you a strength & conditioning coach for a team?
    I don't work as a S&C coach any more. I am a Rugby coach with a S&C background, if that helps.
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  30. #60
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    Ttt.
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