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  1. #1
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    *** Official 2014 R/P Presidential Debate Thread ***


    The 2014 R/P Presidential Debates will be conducted royale rumble style, with each party answering the initial debate questions, and then responding to other parties answers, and so on. Each party may also post their running platform.

    Only official party candidates will be able to ask/answer questions of each other, all other comments will be deleted.


    Debate Chat thread for everyone else... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1193905811


    Official Party Candidates

    ELDER PARTY
    P = GreatOldOne
    VP = GregariousWolf

    UNITED PEOPLES COUNCIL OF DOGE PARTY
    P/DoH = Realism
    GS/P = Ancients

    PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL PARTY
    P = EctoCanuck
    VP = MediaDeit

    THE WHITE HORSE PARTY
    P = brighamw
    VP = mtnbikedude

    CONSERVATIVE PARTY
    P = BEATINGU
    VP = sawoobley

    LIBERTARIAN PARTY
    P = Kusok
    VP = Stizzel

    SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY
    P = EddyBearr
    VP = Posthardcore




    DEBATE TOPICS (answers can be as short or as in-depth as you'd like, but be prepared to defend your position)

    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?
    2. Should we increase or cut taxes? If so, why?
    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?
    4. How do we handle UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS?
    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?
    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?
    7. In what cases, if any, is it acceptable to conduct warrantless surveillance of citizens?
    8. What specific measures, if any, would you support to reduce national gun violence?
    9. What would you do to reduce poverty?
    10. How will you combat America’s obesity epidemic?



    The debates will end on 1-26-14, at which point the actual election poll will begin.
    Last edited by Hola Bola; 01-18-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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  2. #2
    Hell to pay... brighamw's Avatar
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    1st spot officially reserved for:

    THE WHITE HORSE PARTY


    P = brighamw
    VP = mtnbikedude

    brighamw ~ Fiscal Conservative, strong on National Defense (actual National Defense, NOT nation building or spreading democracy)

    mntbike dude ~ Social Liberal, also in charge of all official state Balls and Galas

    We promise to return America to the actual US Constitution!

    Last edited by brighamw; 01-18-2014 at 09:43 AM.

  3. #3
    Registered User EddyBearr's Avatar
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    The Social Democratic Party*


    *Also known as The Magnificent Quasi-Revolutionary People's Semi-Democratic Republican Guard for Societal Evolution, Liberation, Re-Education, Gains, and Equal Opportunity for Betterment of Peoples of Misc in a New, Equitable, and Freed World



    About Us


    My name is EddyBearr, and I'm running for misc R/P president this year. My running-mate is Posthardcore, a regular poster you may know and love. We are an American-Canadian team and we have come together to push for some much needed Social Democracy in R/P. I'm not one for fluff talk, unlike the propagandist reactionaries advertising below this post, so let's get straight to it.

    What is Social Democracy?


    Social Democracy is a socioeconomic tendency which focuses on reform and progress in the most important matters of human civilization. A form of socialism (yes, socialism!), Social Democracy is largely responsible for the high quality of life, low levels of corruption, and human-oriented policies found in many countries throughout the globe, from Europe, to Australasia, to Canada, and even to parts of the United States. In fact, social democracy is one of the world's leading political ideologies, being the ruling or major opposing party of the vast majority of country's on Earth. In fact, in the entirety of the Americas, only the United States, Colombia, and the Bahamas lack a major social democratic presence. Social democracy's track record as an ideology is among the world's best, leading to financial stability, higher quality of life, increased wealth, and high levels of innovation! For Americans, you can thank social democracy (under the guise of farmer-labor populism) for the 40-hour work week, the ban on child labor, the existence of workplace safety mechanisms, and the significant expansions of rights throughout the 20th century. Please ask us if you have any questions regarding social democracy!



    Answering Questions:


    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?
    Status Quo: The U.S. national debt isn't as bad as alarmists make it out to be.^[1][2] Although the U.S. National Debt is a big number, the U.S. creates big numbers every time it sneezes. By looking at U.S. Debt as a percentage of GDP, and removing debts the government owes to itself (EX: Public fund to social security fund,) the U.S. debt is ~70% of GDP.^[3][4] Lowering the debt is important, but it's not terribly urgent.
    Preferred situation: The U.S. should adopt a more proper fiscal policy of budget surplus in good times, and deficit in bad times. Through construction of an effective "rainy day fund," the U.S. can effective deal with the booms-and-busts of a capitalist economy without the riskiness of having a large debt.
    The plan: Nationalization of fiscal institutions, forgiving much of the debt from state-owned operations (social security fund, newly nationalized banks, etc,) challenging the legitimacy of U.S. debt to foreign debtholders in court, similar to the actions of Ecuador, proclaiming that much of it is "odious debt."^[5]
    Sources:
    [1] : http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnthar...not-largest/2/
    [2] : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRdJod4wjSE
    [3] : http://useconomy.about.com/od/moneta...ional-Debt.htm
    [4] : http://www.cia.gov/library/publicati.../2186rank.html
    [5] : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2kNx7T25Ak

    2. Should we increase or cut taxes? If so, why?
    Status Quo: The working and middle class are taxed enough as is, while the poorer classes are overtaxed, and the ultra-rich undertaxed. The government deficit can be heavily fought through more intelligent taxation.
    Preferred situation: Strong opposition to regressive forms of taxation, unless a very strong benefit would arise from it. Taxation should be smart, strategic, progressive, and used to benefit society not just through revenue, but through treatment of societal ails. Much of government revenue will be achieved through state enterprise of strategic sectors.
    The plan: Taxes on less-than-desirable goods/services (smoking, etc.) There is no reason to increase taxes on the middle class (50-100/150k USD salary) as increases in government efficiency can circumvent any problems had. Impose a (large) inheritance tax, to create a more meritocratic system and to prevent the unproductive accumulation of wealth in families, and start considering a capital gains a form of income exactly like salaried income.


    More to come as answers are explored more thoroughly.
    Last edited by EddyBearr; 01-19-2014 at 08:31 PM.

  4. #4
    ♚Elected President - R/P♚ BEATINGU's Avatar
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    I would like to begin my post by thanking Hola Bola for moderating this debate.

    Without your hard-work this whole thing would not be possible. Also, I would like to thank those spending the time reading this debate and learning more about the candidates running.

    It's always good to see people interested in politics and our Democratic process.


    Let me introduce myself; my name is BEATINGU and I will be running with Sawoobley as the Conservative Party candidate.

    We are both long-term members of this forum and contribute regularly to political and religious discussions. Many of you are probably aware of us and some of our views.


    It's important to note that we are respectful of all posters and under a BEATINGU/Sawoobley administration everyone is free to share their views in a mature and dignified manner.

    To begin my first post, I would like to outline the Conservative Party platform.

    This will give you, the reader, an opportunity to learn more about what our party stands for and the type of things we believe in.




    The Conservative Party Platform

    1. Cut Federal Income Taxes by 2 percent per year over four years, for a minimum total of 8 percent over four years. We hope to eventually move towards a flat-tax system in which individuals will pay an equal share of taxes.

    2. Reduce Federal Government Departments in size by 4 percent each year, for a total reduction of size by 16 percent over four years.

    3. Eliminate most public assistance for able-bodied recipients.

    4. Strong support for the Second Amendment and the "Right to Bear Arms. The right to defend your-self, your-family, and your property is important and will not be infringed upon.

    5. Leave social issues like gay-marriage and abortion to the states. Allow people to handle these issues through their local state representatives.

    6. End the death-tax. When you die, you should be allowed to choose where your money and property goes to. It should not be forcibly confiscated by the state and re-distributed to government bureaucrats.

    7. Repeal Obama-care.

    Our Party does not support the "Affordable Care Act". Taking care of one's health is an individual responsibility. If states want to run programs similar to Obama-care, fine, but our government will have no involvement on the issue.

    We hope to cut red-tape and propose that a free-market based solution can be implemented. Government involvement, regulation, and a lack of competition is one of the reasons our health-care costs are so high.

    Improving the economy shall also make health-care more accessible as traditionally workers received health-insurance through an employer. We have become a nation of part time workers thanks to Obama-care. The Conservative Party will put people back to work!

    8. Pull all troops out of the middle-east. Rebuilding Afghanistan and similar countries is not our business and we get no benefit out of it.

    9. Secure our border. Many of the troops pulled from the middle-east should be used to defend our national sovereignty and secure our countries border.

    10. No amnesty for illegal immigrants. We should not reward those that have broken our laws.

    11. Enact voter ID legislation. As the joke goes "My grandfather, voted republican all his life. And after he died he voted democratic." The Elderly and poor should be given assistance in receiving voter ID for free/reduced costs.

    12. Convert the United Nations building in New York into housing for the working poor.

    13. End Affirmative Acton. Judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

    14. Obesity is not the government's business. Though we will not subsidize bad decision making

    15. Eliminate the Federal Minimum Wage. Allow states to compete with one another for jobs and businesses.

    Detroit economy doing poorly? Fine, allow them to lower their minimum wage and attract out of state capital and businesses. This will also help bring jobs back from overseas because it will allow states to become more competitive.

    16. End warrant-less breaches of privacy on American Citizens. We will not read your personal emails.

    17. Maintain funding for NASA. This program attracts scientists and brilliant minds to the United States. Technology created by NASA has led to commercial-product developments that have benefited consumers, and improved our military capabilities.

    18. Continue putting funds into developing new military technology. We will maintain our military superiority and continue improving our technology and capabilities.

    19. Get rid of the Department of Education. Leave education policy and curriculum to the states (we personally support vouchers)

    20. Leave the death penalty to the discretion of the states and the judicial system.

    21. Strong and strict support of the United States Constitution. We believe the Federal Governments role is outlined in the text of our Constitution.

    22. Nominate Supreme Court Justices that follow the text of the Constitution and maintain our rights.




    This platform will be edited and may have things added in the near future
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  5. #5
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    3st post.



    answers to questions shall be posted soon, after realism and i have conferred

    in the meantime, we leave you with our campaign video


  6. #6
    Banned GreatOldOne's Avatar
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    Spot saved for Cthulhu.

    Vote Elder Party.

  7. #7
    kein mitleid für mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Vote Libertarian, because only we care about everyone individually, including the poor.

    - No sending the poor to die in imperialistic wars

    - No burdening the poor with endless debt

    - No trapping the poor in a welfare system that establishes a permanent underclass

    - No forcing the poor into mind shattering schools

    Vote Libertarian, because what about the poor?

    Last edited by Stizzel; 01-18-2014 at 04:45 PM.
    Bababooey crew

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  8. #8
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    THE PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL PARTY IS HERE!!!


    I will post our position here this time tomorrow.Too many irons in the fire right now.



    Originally Posted by BEATINGU View Post
    I would like to begin my post by thanking Hola Bola for moderating this debate.


    I was hoping for someone less biased like Candy Crowley.
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    ****St. Jude/FedEx Classic Donation Thread****

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173739861

  9. #9
    kein mitleid für mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Answer to Debate Questions

    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?

    -There is no such thing as a national debt. What we call a nation is a group of individuals, and because no individual has the right to put another individual into debt without their permission, they do not have the right to grant the State authority to do so. The steps necessary to eliminate this debt are as follows:

    1) Acknowledge that the concept of involuntary debt is a grave evil not far removed from slavery or theft.
    2) Place the responsibility for this debt as directly in the hands of the individuals responsible for it as much as possible.
    3) Allow the public/market to work out repayment terms with foreign debtors, to their satisfaction. Any business that cannot pay it's debts without a bailout or subsidy will cease to exist.

    2. Should we increase or cut taxes? If so, why?

    Taxes will be progressively phased out. This will begin by eliminating corporate and business taxes, to be supplemented by eliminating defense spending and shutting down interventionist based federal agencies. Laws restricting the ability for citizens and local governments to defend themselves will be repealed.

    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?

    Obamacare must be phased out, followed with the HMO act, medicare, medicaid, and the unnecessary licensing and regulatory laws that are currently preventing the health care market from functioning.

    4. How do we handle UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS?

    The role of immigration will be completely reformed. Passport laws will be revoked, the need for documentation to live or work in the U.S. will be completely removed. This will coincide with an elimination of subsidies such as free health care, free education, tax paid food and resources that immigrants currently enjoy. Any immigrant committing crime within our borders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?

    You are only entitled to whatever you create with your own hands or receive from voluntary trade or charity. All federally imposed entitlements will be revoked.

    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?

    All drug laws will be repealed. Anyone currently in federal prison for non violent drug offenses will be released.

    7. In what cases, if any, is it acceptable to conduct warrantless surveillance of citizens?

    The NSA will be completely terminated and a full investigation into it's practices and activities will be conducted. The findings will be made available to the public and anyone who has had their privacy violated will have the option of taking the individuals responsible to court.

    8. What specific measures, if any, would you support to reduce national gun violence?

    Libertarians are concerned with all violence regardless of the implementations used. Violent crime will be addressed primarily by focusing on the two greatest factors that lead to violent behavior - poverty by creating an environment of prosperity with a growing middle class, and single parenthood by eliminating subsidies that discourage marriage.

    9. What would you do to reduce poverty?

    The history of poverty is clear. Nothing ends poverty like freedom. The ultimate goal is a complete dismantling of the welfare state. This must immediately follow dismantling the military industrial complex. However there must be contingencies made for those who have depended on government aid their entire lives and are unable to function without it, primarily amongst the elderly.

    10. How will you combat America’s obesity epidemic?

    The factors leading to an obesity epidemic are derived from the subsidizing of bad health habits through our current health care laws and the subsidizing of unhealthy foods through our agricultural laws/regulations. There will be no more agricultural subsidies and no more forcing our neighbors to pay for our detrimental behaviors.
    Last edited by Stizzel; 01-18-2014 at 06:32 PM.
    Bababooey crew

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  10. #10
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    ^^^ Signed


    *various nods of approval*

  11. #11
    ♚Elected President - R/P♚ BEATINGU's Avatar
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    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?
    Addressing the national debt requires that we reign in massive spending and reform our tax system.

    We should cut Federal Income Taxes by 2 percent per year over four years, for a minimum total of 8 percent over four years. We hope to eventually move towards a flat-tax system in which individuals will pay an equal share of taxes.

    At the same time, Reduce Federal Government Departments in size by 4 percent each year, for a total reduction of size by 16 percent over four years.

    Public assistance should be cut to most able-bodied people (saving billions) Also, we should eliminate the Department of Education and allow curriculum changes to be handled on the state level. In it current for the DOE is costing us around 80 billion a year, and the educational system continues to deteriorate. Traditionally education was handled on the state levels, and our children were doing much better.

    Lastly, we can raise more revenue by putting people back to work and strengthening the United States economy. This can be accomplished by repealing the Federal Minimum wage and allowing states to compete with one another for business and labor.

    If this is done businesses and jobs are likely to move back to the United States, and of-course it would be much easier to find a job. Also, repealing Obama-care will move people back into full-time work.

    Keep in mind: ending US involvement in places like Afghanistan and returning troops home will naturally come with reduced costs.

    The National Debt wasn't acquired in a day and won't be eliminated in a day. Though, through common-sense reform we can slowly pay it back. Some additional cuts may need to be made in the near future depending on the rate of growth for the United States economy.



    2. Should we increase or cut taxes? If so, why?
    CUT CUT CUT

    People deserve to keep more of what they earn. Taxes are too high and government spending is too high. Both need to be drastically reduced and will be under a BEATINGU/Sawoobley administration.

    Our tax-plan is addressed and outlined in the first question.

    Reducing taxes allows people to keep more of what they earn and will make it easier to start businesses as well as find work.


    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?
    YES YES YES

    Taking care of one's health is an individual responsibility. If states want to run programs similar to Obama-care, fine, but our government will have no involvement on the issue.

    We hope to cut red-tape and propose that a free-market based solution can be implemented. Government involvement, regulation, and a lack of competition is a big reason our health-care costs are so high.

    Improving the economy shall also make health-care more accessible as traditionally workers received health-insurance through an employer.

    We have become a nation of part time workers thanks to Obama-care.


    4. How do we handle UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS?
    Cut all benefits to illegal immigrants.

    Put more resources and boots on the ground to secure our border.

    Illegal immigrants already here will be handled on a case-by-case basis.

    There will be no amnesty, but some may be able to earn citizenship (assuming they've been here for awhile) if they choose to serve in the military or something else that greatly contributes to our country.

    Illegal immigrants in prison will be immediately deported. Some people that have been here for a long-time and have no criminal record may potentially be given residency status. Depending on whether or not they are contributing to our society. They will not be allowed to vote, and will not be given citizenship, but they will be able to pay taxes.

    It's likely that many will end up being deported to their country of origin. Especially those that are not contributing.


    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?
    Welfare should be mainly reserved for people with mental handicaps and the disabled.

    We don't believe in government funded iPhone's for everyone.

    Eliminate most public assistance for able-bodied recipients.

    There can be temporary welfare for people actively looking for a job. They will be forced to prove they are actually looking for a job by submitting copies of job applications.

    Welfare should ideally give you enough for some rice/beans and water to drink. No people on welfare with Jordan sneakers and various other luxuries.

    If the states want to do more, that's on them.


    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?
    Will answer this question after consulting with my VP.


    7. In what cases, if any, is it acceptable to conduct warrantless surveillance of citizens?
    The United States Constitution applies to citizens.

    Surveillance should be done with warrants.

    We don't be reading your emails.


    8. What specific measures, if any, would you support to reduce national gun violence?
    Strong support for the Second Amendment and the "Right to Bear Arms". The right to defend your-self, your-family, and your property is important and will not be infringed upon.

    The areas of the country with the strongest gun-control also tend to be the most violent and deadly (Detroit, Chicago, etc)

    We expect crime to go down once people are properly equipped to defend themselves.


    9. What would you do to reduce poverty?
    Make it easier for people to find jobs and provide for themselves.

    We hope to convert the United Nations building in New York into housing for the working poor.

    Poverty will naturally decrease with a stronger economy.

    Most welfare programs should be run on the state level, and we encourage individuals to donate to private charities.

    10. How will you combat America’s obesity epidemic?
    We won't.

    You want to eat yourself to death? Fine. But tax-payers won't be paying for it.
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    Answer to Debate Questions

    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?

    -There is no such thing as a national debt. What we call a nation is a group of individuals, and because no individual has the right to put another individual into debt without their permission, they do not have the right to grant the State authority to do so. The steps necessary to eliminate this debt are as follows:

    1) Acknowledge that the concept of involuntary debt is a grave evil not far removed from slavery or theft.
    2) Place the responsibility for this debt as directly in the hands of the individuals responsible for it as much as possible.
    3) Allow the public/market to work out repayment terms with foreign debtors, to their satisfaction. Any business that cannot pay it's debts without a bailout or subsidy will cease to exist.


    The Elder Party would like to begin with discussing the first question as a response to the Anarchists. We are for compromise, and work across and through all party lines. Here, we find common ground:

    Originally Posted by Anarchists
    There is no such thing as a national debt
    However, where the anarchists fall short the Elder Party goes the whole mile. We will usher in a new and brief era of a unified world-wide government in a single form: Anarchy. Under an Elder Party administration money is permitted, just like everything will be permitted. So, personal debts and company debts may be resolved, disputed, arbitrated...at your leisure and pleasure.

    Those other anarchists may say they can deliver the lack of structure needed for such an outcome but only the Elder Party can deliver here. While most parties only want another 4 years, the Elder Party is different. We only want one thing.



    While other people make promises and fail to deliver...the Elder Party WILL solve all your problems. For eternity.

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    Originally Posted by Those other anarchists
    2. Should we increase or cut taxes? If so, why?

    Taxes will be progressively phased out. This will begin by eliminating corporate and business taxes, to be supplemented by eliminating defense spending and shutting down interventionist based federal agencies. Laws restricting the ability for citizens and local governments to defend themselves will be repealed.
    To respond to the second question, the Elder Party would also like to point out another area where we see common ground with other thinkers...but want to highlight our solution as the superior one.

    Some may say a gradual reduction in taxes phasing them out is the way to go. This is not the case. Just imagine...you will never pay taxes again. The Elder Party will make that happen, and not gradually but immediately. You will be free to enjoy everything you have worked for to date.



    Capital gains taxes: gone
    Income taxes: gone
    Property taxes: gone
    Death taxes: gone

    Elder Party can not only make these promises but deliver on them.



    Vote Elder. Vote for NO TAXES.

  14. #14
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    No Taxes

    No Poverty

    No Drugs

    No Violence

    No Crime

    NO NOTHING



  15. #15
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    DEBATE TOPICS

    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?

    Reduce federal government in size, eliminate or greatly reduce unnecessary or outdated departments. NONE are exempt!
    Reduce or eliminate aid to foreign countries, set up strict criteria for countries that are eligible to receive it in the 1st place.

    2. Should we increase or cut taxes?

    Cut

    If so, why?

    Business & people know better what to do with their own money than “Big Gov”


    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?

    REFINE, not necessarily repeal. We need health care reform, primarily cost, not just talk & kick backs for insurance companies…

    4. How do we handle UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS?

    I think you mean illegal aliens

    Fine them for breaking the law by being here illegally in the 1st place. Deport all that have committed more crimes since they came here. Set up very, very strict guidelines & paths to citizenship for those who qualify.

    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?

    Return to some of the work to welfare reforms enacted in the 90’s, stricter enforcement against welfare fraud. Cap benefits both time wise & dollar amount. We need to return “entitlements” to being a crutch NOT a way of life.

    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?

    In favor of de-criminalizing many aspects of the “drug war”, but not just “all out” legalization. More treatment, less criminals, go after the “big fish”, etc…

    7. In what cases, if any, is it acceptable to conduct warrantless surveillance of citizens?

    A warrant should always be obtained to monitor US citizens.

    8. What specific measures, if any, would you support to reduce national gun violence?

    Non issue, gun violence has been declining for years now.

    9. What would you do to reduce poverty?

    (see #2) Along with reducing taxes and putting more money back in the people’s hands and out of the governments.

    (see#5) Welfare to work reform, again, welfare should be a temporary crutch NOT a way of life. Cap time and amounts people can draw on welfare, just like unemployment.

    10. How will you combat America’s obesity epidemic?

    Definitely NOT through laws & more legislation. Education would be the only step, including re-emphasis on gym/PE in schools, etc. In the end it’s a personal choice.

    *NOTE: WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFINE AND EXPAND UPON OUR ANSWERS AT A LATER DATE*

    WHP approves this message...

  16. #16
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    So far the White Horse Party, the Conservative Party, and the Libertarian Party are the only ones to successfully answer all 10 debate questions.

    FYI, failure to answer all debate questions will disqualify your party from the election poll.
    Audentis Fortuna Iuvat

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    will answer tomorrow

    quizzes to study for and such..

  18. #18
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    Can't edit first post. Putting down short answers, without citations for now. Feel free to PM me for any citations if a voter, or ask away in this thread of an opposing candidate.

    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?
    Yes, and replace it with mandated state-run universal systems. Each state must implement a form of universal healthcare which covers all people at less than $5,000 USD per person per year. This may be single-payer, dual-payer, or anything else the state can think of. Similar states and/or smaller states may choose to band together to have regional economic policies, such as between Maryland and Delaware. We will also lower cost, remove conflicts of interest, and enhance innovation through strategic and non-profit nationalization of medical industries, such as pharmaceutical companies. All actions will be completed by 2016 if we are elected, and states are expected to reach standards by 2017. Failure to do so will result in federal intervention, at the state's expense.

    4. How do we handle UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS?
    Undocumented immigrants should be able to function in the country, but ultimately this issue boils down to a state responsibility, as different states have different immigration situations. More importantly, we will re-negotiate the trade deal with Mexico to re-instate the lost agricultural sector of Mexico, creating a more stable Mexico and reducing the influx of displaced Mexican farmers who immigrate illegally to the U.S. A stable Mexico, one not dependent on foreign food, is better for the United States.

    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?
    A. Medicare. Medicare will be entirely replaced with state-run universal healthcare systems.
    B. Food Stamps. Food stamps shall undergo two reforms: Becoming eligible only for healthier foods, and becoming universalized. It has been shown that food stamps are beneficial to the economy, and since eating is a necessity, the Law of Diminishing Return will never lead to anything below 100% repayment. People may still buy more, and less healthy, foods with their own money.
    C. Unemployment Insurance: There are no significant changes that must be made to unemployment at this time. Emotional arguments from subjective systems of morality over what is or isn't fair or righteous mean nothing in the face of the reality that unemployment benefits help our economy, especially in difficult times such as these.

    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?
    Portugal gives us the answer to drug policy. Drugs will be classified into two different tiers.
    Tier 1: Tier 1 drugs are truly detrimental to society, horribly addictive, and dangerous. These drugs shall be legalized and the market monopolized through state-run for-profit institutions which will provide a safe place to get a clean and legal hit, while also offering help to break free from addiction. It must be state-run and monopolized to prevent a conflict of interest. It will be for-profit so to utilize higher costs of drugs to further incentivize quitting, while also supplying much needed revenue. Those who want help will receive help, and those who are lost-causes will at least generate some tax revenue to benefit society.
    Tier 2: Tier 2 drugs are recreational, relatively harmless, and can be regulated, taxed, and subjected to the market like any other recreational drug, such as alcohol.

    7. In what cases, if any, is it acceptable to conduct warrantless surveillance of citizens?
    Never, outside of critical public institutions such as legislative bodies, as per basic security measures. The SDP completely and utterly respects your personal privacy, in your home, your car, your workplace, online, and wherever else.

    8. What specific measures, if any, would you support to reduce national gun violence?
    We believe that the 2nd amendment of the constitution gives you the right to a fire-arm, but not necessarily what kind of fire-arm. All states shall retain the right to keep and bear arms used for hunting. Other aspects of gun policy shall be left mostly to the states, as each state has a unique gun situation, though policies that reduce poverty and increase equality are expected to reduce violence.

    9. What would you do to reduce poverty?
    A. Universal programs to help circumvent the cost of living, helping lift people into better socioeconomic situations
    B. Making the taxation system more progressive and less regressive, curbing or even eradicating the tax burden on the lower classes.
    C. Removal of for-profit policy in key industries to lower costs and bureaucratic measures, such as healthcare, to lower the cost of living.
    D. Entry-level jobs programs in key and strategic industries to make finding a job easier while bettering society.

    10. How will you combat America’s obesity epidemic?
    -Ending agricultural subsidies for less-than-healthy products, such as oil and corn.
    -Universal [healthy] Food Stamps will severely curb the interest in spending extra money on unhealthy foods, helping people to eat healthier.
    -Nationalized and taxpayer funded gym membership for all citizens who have graduated high school.
    -Every high school shall be mandated to have physical education, a thorough and applied health course, and a weight room which students are free to use.


    Other Common Topics:

    Military Policy
    -Huge reduction in military spending, and huge change in who funds it. Instead of having all states come together through the federal legislature to decide how to fund military, which applies to each state equally, each state will have a relatively low military spending obligation (EX: 0.3% of state's GDP must go to military spending,) while individual state legislatures are free to add more to the federal military.
    -Ending foreign wars, closing foreign military bases (continuing support for South Korea for their security, and similar drastic situations) nationalization (or state-ownership) of all military industries, to prevent conflicts of interest.
    -Any acts of war must be put to a referendum for the public-at-large, in which at least 2/3 of the votes must vote "yes" to going to war.
    -Since the military is essentially a giant jobs program, the change would be steady (not abrupt,) and efforts would be made to re-distribute much of our economic activity, to minimize the inevitable ill effects of restructuring our economy and federal budget.

    Energy:
    -Nationalization of energy firms to better manage and understand U.S. energy needs.
    -Some time after nationalization to understand U.S. energy needs, taxes shall be instituted on "over-usage" of energy to lower energy waste (and subsequently increase the percentage of energy gotten through cleaner energy), have wasteful Americans give a bit more to society in the form of taxes, and provide much needed funding for cleaner energy development.

    Free trade:
    Replace free trade with fair trade (for both sides), and push for trade deals which promotes competition with foreign markets, not the domination of foreign markets.

    Corporate Fascism:
    A strong stance against the corporate-public cooperation that is corporate fascism. Private prisons, bailouts, enforced private monopolies, subsidies which do not benefit society, and similar measures will be strongly opposed and removed.
    Last edited by EddyBearr; 01-21-2014 at 04:07 PM.

  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by EddyBearr View Post
    Can't edit first post. Putting down short answers, without citations for now. Feel free to PM me for any citations if a voter, or ask away in this thread of an opposing candidate.

    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?
    Yes, and replace it with mandated state-run universal systems. Each state must implement a form of universal healthcare which covers all people at less than $5,000 USD per person per year. This may be single-payer, dual-payer, or anything else the state can think of. Similar states and/or smaller states may choose to band together to have regional economic policies, such as between Maryland and Delaware. We will also lower cost, remove conflicts of interest, and enhance innovation through strategic and non-profit nationalization of medical industries, such as pharmaceutical companies. All actions will be completed by 2016 if we are elected, and states are expected to reach standards by 2017. Failure to do so will result in federal intervention, at the state's expense.
    Once again the Elder Party can reach compromise with other thinkers, particularly with the Social Democrats on the subject of Obamacare. We agree that it should be repealed, and replaced with a universal system.

    However, our idea for implementation is a little different. While the Social Democrats want to have individual states provide their own solution the Elder Party will place healthcare in the hands of Cthulhu. There would simply be no need for individual, state-provided solutions which could vary wildly across the country according the individual prosperity of individual states. That could lead to a large inequity of healthcare based simply on where you live. Isn't this the United States?

    Cthulhu, on the other hand, can personally guarantee equal treatment and quality healthcare for all people. Regardless of income, religion, ethnicity, or sexual persuasion the Elder Party can see that there will finally be an end to cancer, diabetes, false diagnoses, medical mistakes, incompetent doctors, expensive prescriptions, health care bills, and waiting in line for doctors who are late for their 15 minute appointment.

    Because everyone will be dead.

    No more sickness. Vote Elder Party.


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    1. What is to be done to address our national debt?
    well, we're going to be real here. the national debt is absolutely massive and to ever be reduced, needs a huge reduction in spending. the question is how much?

    the UCPD will switch to a FairTax system, which gets rid of the income tax, capital gains, corporate income taxes, estate taxes etc etc. the fair tax is set at 23% for the first year, then to be adjusted according to the budget. this will broaden the tax base, tax wealth instead of income, tax illegal immigrants and those involved in criminal activies, as well as simplifying the tax code. i.e, laying off tens of thousands of IRS employees.

    social programs will also be reformed, which is where much of the savings will come from, but we'll talk about that in question 5. all but the most critical forces in afghanistan will be completely pulled out, same with iraq, which naturally will save billions.

    2. Should we increase or cut taxes? If so, why?
    cut taxes, but broaden the tax base, so everybody pays and not just 50% of the country. which is exactly what the fair tax will do. we will get rid of the estate tax, income tax, capital gains and many others. the debt is way too high right now and people are struggling. increasing taxes wont help, but cutting them will. we won't ever take away money from someone's work, then more when they try to invest what little they have left, then even more when they buy things with those earnings. a simple tax plan is the policy of the Doge party.

    3. Should we repeal Obamacare?
    obamacare will be repealed, and there will be a national referendum on how the people wish to deal with their health care. options will include DogeCare, a return to the old system of health insurance (with minor reforms, because nobody should ever pay $40 for a aspirin), state run health care, and so on.

    4. How do we handle UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS?
    as of today, it's increasingly difficult to do anything about illegals. many don't have car insurance or licenses, many dont pay any sort of taxes, etc.

    but we can't just kick them all out. hundreds of thousands have been here for decades, working and have families. so our reform will include deporting any and all criminal illegals, i.e those in jail. people who have lived here for 10+ years will be able to apply for residency. people contributing will be allowed to stay, and not to copy BEATINGU here, but we will have a 'citizenship by blood' type thing as France does. join the military and leave honorably, get citizenship.

    each case will be handled individually, recent illegal immigrants will be sent back. border states will be allowed their own choosing of how they wish to enforce immigration laws, as in the government will not stop arizona from what they wanted to do a few years ago.

    once on the track to citizenship, illegals will be given licenses and allowed to drive (given they passed the tests), but any illegal not on that track without insurance who drives and totals someones car will be gone.

    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?
    food stamps will be gone. no other country in the world has them, and not many other countries makes as much money or have food as cheap as Americans do.

    welfare will be for those who honestly need it. the old, the handicapped, the disease stricken, and so on.

    since states will most likely choose DogeCare or their own health care systems like RomneyCare, medicare for the most part will be done away with.

    is stuff like no child left behind a social program? even if its not, stuff like this will be done away with, and my more in depth explanation of this point can be found here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1194978951

    unemployment will also be reformed. there will be a certain number of hours that must be worked before one can apply to unemployment (does murica have this? i know canada does). unemployment is meant to be temporary, and recipients must give some sort of proof they are actively looking for jobs.

    the economic opportunity act (commonly known as the great society) will be repealed.

    section 8 will also be greatly reduced for the most part. $2200 is way too much per month for most people. only people who honestly cannot afford their rent, again the elderly and so on, will be given access to public housing. moving inner city problems to the burbs isnt helping anyone.

    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?
    the war on drugs is done again for the most part. only the most dangerous drugs such as meth will be kept illegal. marijuana will be legalized, and anyone currently in prison will for non violent drug related crimes (such as simple possession or usage, not trafficking) will be instantly released

    7. In what cases, if any, is it acceptable to conduct warrantless surveillance of citizens?
    in cases where a judge has signed off on a warrant, and thats it. no warrant, no surveillance. any and all mass surveillance programs will be shut down and their activities made public.

    8. What specific measures, if any, would you support to reduce national gun violence?
    any convicted felons of serious crimes (again, murder and so on, not punching someone in the face when you were drunk) will not be allowed to carry guns in public. mental illnesses will be added to the NCIS nation wide, the age of owning a firearm will be set at 20, except for those that served in the military. there will be mandatory firearms training and education courses that one must take to get their CCW. these courses must re upped every 10 or so years. no state will be allowed to ban guns as NY and california do. parents who own guns take the responsibility that their children wont have access to them.

    9. What would you do to reduce poverty?
    - end the war on drugs and therefore end ruining lives for minor drug use
    - fairtax, ending the income tax
    - $2000/month living wage (not srs)
    - reduce welfare programs for anyone who does not absolutely need them

    poverty at the end of the day comes down to personal responsibility. i recently read a blog about a man who has lived for the last 10 years with his wife on a combined $14,000 a year income. considering the average income is 2x that and the average household income is more than 4x that, it comes down to people deciding, 'what's more important? food or my new iphone 5s?'

    10. How will you combat America’s obesity epidemic?
    fat people will be shot

    survivors will be shot again

    now but srsly it comes down to nutrition and education. we should be at least sort of teaching our children what they should and should not be eating at some point in school. we wont punish mcdonalds and others for running a business that works, but we don't help those who couldn't stop helping themselves.

    no taxpayer will support the lifestyle of the 400 lb fat man, but we do like the idea of national fitness. promoting fitness as a lifestyle rather than hating on fit people as we currently do. this is done by education and emphasis on sports and general fitness of course. there are cheap $10 a month gyms like planet fitness available to everyone and we like the idea of having a sort of check in sheet to prove that you are at least sort of trying to give a chit about your health. those that do go to the gym or participate in some other activity will have reduced health care premiums if the people should so choose to go back to the old style of health care

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    4. Undocumented Workers

    This is a tough issue. It's one that gets people's blood moving, and honestly it is a little hard for the Elder Party to find room to compromise on although we do want to find common ground with the bare minimum number of people who can elect us successfully.

    Consider the response from the Dog party:

    Originally Posted by Ancients
    as of today, it's increasingly difficult to do anything about illegals. many don't have car insurance or licenses, many dont pay any sort of taxes, etc.

    but we can't just kick them all out. hundreds of thousands have been here for decades, ....
    Who doesn't agree with this? But it's not just decades the 'illegal aliens' have been here. It's eons. In fact, the Old Ones came to Earth from another planet and precede humanity itself by millions of years, not just decades.

    Let's face facts: They were here first.

    Now: They want to work.

    I say we should be giving the Great Old One's the chance to come back and make real changes in our society. They can, and will, fix ALL of our problems.

    But regarding the Mexicans I say we let them all in. We'll need as many cultists as possible chanting.

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    Originally Posted by Ancients View Post
    The UCPD will switch to a FairTax system, which gets rid of the income tax, capital gains, corporate income taxes, estate taxes etc etc. the fair tax is set at 23% for the first year, then to be adjusted according to the budget. this will broaden the tax base, tax wealth instead of income
    Can you please explain what taxing wealth means?

    If I have a net-worth of one million dollars, will I be taxed 23 percent of that every year?


    Originally Posted by Ancients
    tax illegal immigrants and those involved in criminal activies
    What the hell do you mean tax criminal activities?

    If you pay someone 100,000 dollars to kill your wife, the government should just tax that?? Not sure if serious...
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    Originally Posted by BEATINGU View Post
    Can you please explain what taxing wealth means?
    gladly

    wealth consumes, therefore we tax wealth
    income doesnt consume, therefore we dont tax income

    if you have a net worth of a million dollars, then you have a net worth of a million dollars. that has nothing to do with your tax rate. if you make a million and you spend a million, you get taxed at 23%. if you make a million and spend nothing, you get taxed nothing, thereby increasing purchasing power.


    What the hell do you mean tax criminal activities?

    If you pay someone 100,000 dollars to kill your wife, the government should just tax that?? Not sure if serious...
    no.

    when someone sells drugs, they don't pay taxes on that income. however when they go out and buy that $200,000 car with that money, we tax that. thereby increasing the tax base to include money gained by criminal activities

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    Originally Posted by Ancients View Post
    gladly

    wealth consumes, therefore we tax wealth
    income doesnt consume, therefore we dont tax income

    if you have a net worth of a million dollars, then you have a net worth of a million dollars. that has nothing to do with your tax rate. if you make a million and you spend a million, you get taxed at 23%. if you make a million and spend nothing, you get taxed nothing, thereby increasing purchasing power.
    Investment is driven by accumulated wealth. How can you expect your economy to function when you are stifling investment?
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    Investment is driven by accumulated wealth. How can you expect your economy to function when you are stifling investment?
    what the fuk am i reading

    how does replacing the capitals gains tax and income tax as well as almost every other kind of tax stifle investment

    if anything, people would be investing more as theyre taking home more money and not having to pay taxes on money made from stocks and whatnot

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    Originally Posted by Ancients View Post
    gladly
    wealth consumes, therefore we tax wealth
    income doesnt consume, therefore we dont tax income
    I have never heard of a national sales tax of 23 percent being called a wealth tax, lol

    So, you're basically advocating increasing prices on everything we purchase a minimum of 23 percent.

    This number doesn't include a state sales tax.

    Meaning in places like NYC prices on all goods and services will increase 30 percent.


    when someone sells drugs, they don't pay taxes on that income. however when they go out and buy that $200,000 car with that money, we tax that. thereby increasing the tax base to include money gained by criminal activities
    Uh, if i made 200,000 dollars as a hitman and bought a car with that money, it would be taxed at the time of purchase

    It's not like they check where you made the money when making a purchase at the store, lol.
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    Originally Posted by Ancients View Post
    what the fuk am i reading

    how does replacing the capitals gains tax and income tax as well as almost every other kind of tax stifle investment

    if anything, people would be investing more as theyre taking home more money and not having to pay taxes on money made from stocks and whatnot
    What is the point in taking the wealth you've so graciously allowed me to keep and putting it at risk in an investment, knowing you're going to take your cut regardless of the outcome?
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    Originally Posted by BEATINGU View Post
    I have never heard of a national sales tax of 23 percent being called a wealth tax, lol

    So, you're basically advocating increasing prices on everything we purchase a minimum of 23 percent.

    This number doesn't include a state sales tax.

    Meaning in places like NYC prices on all goods and services will increase 30 percent.
    a household's effective tax rate on consumption would vary with the annual expenditures on taxable items and the fixed monthly tax rebate. at higher spending levels, the rebate has less impact, and a household's effective tax rate would approach 23% of total spending

    effective tax rates can very anywhere from negative values to 23%. that 23% is inclusive, not exclusive. as in $100 doesn't pay $123, $100 sticker price is $100 at the cashier.

    isn't that better than getting taxed at well over 30% of your income at federal and state income taxes, then having to pay capital gains on any investments you may have, then having to pay the 10% or whatever it is in federal and state sales taxes on whatever you buy?

    to make the plan progressive, monthly rebates will be given, as is laid out in the fairtax legislation.

    Uh, if i made 200,000 dollars as a hitman and bought a car with that money, it would be taxed at the time of purchase

    It's not like they check where you made the money when making a purchase at the store, lol.
    yeah, you charge the guy who just bought a quarter million $ car from illegal courses like 6% and then he doesn't pay any taxes on the millions he makes. with the fairtax they have to pay, no matter where the money comes from.

    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    What is the point in taking the wealth you've so graciously allowed me to keep and putting it at risk in an investment, knowing you're going to take your cut regardless of the outcome?
    lower tax rate. gets rid of several useless taxes. consumption decreases as a percentage relative to increase of wealth. therefore this is preferable to the current system, although i'm sure you think no tax is best, but we arent living in somalia

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    Originally Posted by BEATINGU View Post
    Can you please explain what taxing wealth means?

    If I have a net-worth of one million dollars, will I be taxed 23 percent of that every year?




    What the hell do you mean tax criminal activities?

    If you pay someone 100,000 dollars to kill your wife, the government should just tax that?? Not sure if serious...
    Technically that might need a CTR since it was over 10,000.

    Originally Posted by debate topics
    5. What kind of entitlement reform would you implement?
    The Elder Party would wipe out entitlements...they are illusions and not real.

    What the Elder Party can help bring you, is your natural right...that is to say, death. This IS your natural right, and other parties only skirt the issue. Elder Party takes it head on, and delivers. Elder Party helps usher in the era where you can realize your only natural right.

    Originally Posted by debate topics
    6. How will you reconcile the federal government’s War on Drugs with state-level legalization efforts?
    In an Elder Party administration drugs are permitted, like everything. The 'War on Drugs' is over with the Elder Party.
    Last edited by GreatOldOne; 01-21-2014 at 05:36 PM.

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    Originally Posted by Ancients View Post
    lower tax rate. gets rid of several useless taxes. consumption decreases as a percentage relative to increase of wealth. therefore this is preferable to the current system, although i'm sure you think no tax is best, but we arent living in somalia
    You're right, we're not living in Somalia, and I'm so proud of you for figuring that out. We're also not experiencing the explosive growth Somalia has experienced, and that's largely because we're lead by people like yourself who think the solution to bad ideas is to implement different bad ideas.
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