Bulking is a complete waste of time

[PersonaNonGrata]

So i'm back down to 73kg, 7% body fat, following another 4 months of over-eating, training..... added 2lbs/month consistently (so 8lbs total)

Muscle gained = 0

Bulking is such a big fking waste of time. My fifth "bulk" in recent years, this one was short-ish and clean at 0.5lb/week but the result is just the same as the eat-everything-in-sight for 6 months approach. Trained slightly differently this time with lots of volume as well as pushing the weight, but it makes no difference.

Bollocks.

[brava]

OK, so how do we build muscle then?

I came to similar conclusion, gave up on the bulking/cutting cycle...I'm just training and then eating when hungry, and just watch the waist line not going overboard.

[Vytis]

Here's what one of the leading experts in the field has to say:

The Top 10 “Don’ts” for Mass Gaining
To pack on pounds of rock-hard muscle fast, here’s what not to do

by Charles Poliquin
5/20/2010 12:20:37 PM
David Letterman’s signature comedy routine for his late-night TV show is his Top Ten List. Likewise, many bodybuilding and fitness magazines also have their top ten lists of how to achieve various body composition goals with countdowns such as “Six Tips for Building Shoulders Like Boulders!” and “The Four Best Ways to Pump Your Stomach!” Because this formula is a good way to get a message across, here is my top ten list of “Don’ts” for muscle building so you won’t end up with a body like David Letterman’s.

1. Performing too many isolation exercises
An exercise is only as good as the time it takes you to adapt to it. Provided you use enough load for enough time, all exercises can build muscle. It’s just that some exercises do it better than others.

It has to do with what the German strength physiologists call the scale of motor unit recruitment. For example, cam exercises for a given number of reps recruit less motor units than pulley exercises, and pulley exercises recruit less motor units than dumbbell exercises. The more you stick to what we were designed for as animals (lifting rocks, carrying carcasses and generally just fighting against gravity), the better off you are. What that means is using free weights in preference to machines. A large, muscular physique is built from squats, dips, chins and deadlifts – not triceps kickbacks and cable crossovers.

2. Performing too many machine exercises
Remember this motto: “Seven days training on machines makes one week (weak)!” Again, because of the scale of motor unit recruitment, if you are the type who lines up at the gym for the lat pulldown machine, you are not going to grow as fast as the guy slaving away at the chin-up bar.


To see the maximum amount of muscle that can be packed on a frame, check out a Mr. Olympia competition. Photo by Milos Sarcev
3. Believing the bulking-up nonsense
In the so-called Golden Age of Bodybuilding where bodybuilders were known by their first names (e.g., Arnold, Louie and Sergio), bulking up in the off-season and then cutting up was standard practice. Besides the obvious health problems associated with adding excess fat, bulking up is a really bad approach to trying to achieve your physique or athletic fitness goals. Here are six reasons why:

ANTI-BULKING FACT #1. Bulking-up diet programs won’t produce any more muscle growth than ingesting an ideal amount of nutrients. Sorry, but it’s simply not possible to force additional muscle growth by overfeeding.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #2. Bulking up develops insulin resistance, which makes it harder in the long run to gain muscle. What happens when you bulk up is that carbohydrates will go preferentially to fat stores, not to muscle tissue.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #3. Bulking up will make it harder for you to get leaner because insulin resistance is hard to reverse. The fatter you get, the harder it becomes to get lean. Female bodybuilders learn this fact quickly, as it is considerably harder for women to reach the low body-fat levels required for competition.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #4. The fatter you get, the more aromatase enzyme your body will produce. In the extreme, getting fat could be considered a form of self-castration, as your own testosterone will be converted into the female hormone estrogen and you will suffer many unwanted side effects. If you’re a man and you enjoy wearing a bra, go right ahead and get fatter.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #5. Getting fatter will ramp down the effectiveness of your thyroid hormone production – not a good thing, because thyroid production is essential for fat loss. The fatter your abdominal wall becomes, the less conversion there will be of T4 to T3, the metabolically active form of thyroid.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #6. The lower your percentage of body fat, the better your body becomes at nutrient partitioning. This means individuals with low body fat are more effective at storing the ingested nutrients in the muscle (as muscle tissue or glycogen) or in the liver (as glycogen) and less effective at storing nutrients as body fat. To put it in simpler terms, leaner individuals can eat more nutrients without gaining fat.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #7. The idea that “a calorie is a calorie” is a bunch of bunk. Calories from sweet potatoes are great for building muscle; calories from beer are not. For that matter, getting fat increases the risk of dying from any cause, even terrorist attacks. I’m serious – you’re a bigger target and you can’t get out of danger as fast.

4. Burning too many calories outside the gym
You can’t effectively gain a lot of muscle mass if you play basketball four days a week and in the evening go to bars cutting the carpet till the wee hours, and then run up and down the beach on Sundays. My good friend Angus Cooper was a bronze medalist in hammer throwing at the Commonwealth Games. He used to repeat a poem that came from Al Schoterman, a PICP Level 5 strength coach who was a 1972 Olympian and Jud Logan’s hammer throw coach:


The Phases of Rest
Never run when you can walk
Never walk when you can get a ride
Never stand when you can sit
Never sit when you can lie down
Never lie down when you can go to sleep


5. Keeping your reps too low
Using relative-strength protocols are great to build up the nervous system to lift high loads, but they are not the fastest way to hypertrophy. That is why athletes who compete in set weight classes sport like judo and wrestling will do relative strength as they want to get stronger and not necessarily heavier. Alternating cycles of 9-12 reps with cycles of 4-8 reps is the quickest way to gain lean muscle mass. Occasionally doing sets of 20-50 can also boost mass gains in muscles with a relative higher proportion of slow twitch muscles like the quadriceps. Such high reps for hamstrings with are typically at least 60% fast-twitch would be a waste of time.



A post-workout bundle of whey protein, L-glutamine and glycine will improve recovery ability and help add muscle mass.
6. Failing to take post-workout shakes
Taking a post-workout shake is critical for mass gaining. In fact, the rate of protein synthesis and possibly muscle growth can double when protein is consumed immediately after a workout.

Researchers at the University of Connecticut at Storrs found that a protein/carb shake also helps increase the number of testosterone receptors.
For those athletes who are already lean, I’ve found that results are best when you use a formula that contains four carbs to every gram of protein. For carbs, you should be taking one gram per pound of bodyweight post-workout. For protein you should be taking 0.25g per pound of bodyweight. My recommendation for post-workout carb powder is Quadricarb.

Post-workout glutamine supplementation facilitates muscle recovery and can accelerate muscle glycogen resynthesis and glutamine levels, which are critical in creating an anabolic environment and in preventing overtraining. Adding glycine and/or Primal Greens also helps lower cortisol post workout.

7. Failing to stay hydrated
Water is often the most neglected nutrient. Dehydration leads to higher cortisol output; negative repercussions range from increased oxydative stress to the brain, to increased fat storage.

As a rule of thumb you should drink 0.6 to 0.7 ounces of water for every pound of bodyweight. In other words, if you weigh 200 pounds, you should drink 120 to 140 ounces of water a day. An easy way to ensure that you are drinking your proper daily quota is to measure your prescribed amount into containers for the day, every morning. By bedtime, all the containers should be empty.

When first starting to do this hydration protocol, many individuals realize that they barely drink 40 percent of their water needs by the time they retire for the evening. This exercise in itself is very educational. From a practical standpoint the best indication that you are staying well hydrated is that your morning urine is clear and odorless. If it has the color of Vermont’s finest maple syrup, start drinking more water.

8. Drinking stimulating drinks all the time
Stimulants by their very nature increase cortisol. That is fine if you are on your way to the gym and are going to use that extra drive to increase loading. But once the workout is over, no more coffee, caffeinated drinks, etc.

One of the dumbest things I have seen was at Italy’s best gym in Tuscany: Locals would reach for the coffee machine post workout! No wonder I’d never seen anyone from that town bench or squat over 80 kg all week.

9. Getting insufficient sleep
As in the case of fat loss, sleep deprivation can interfere with muscle mass gains. Lack of sleep lowers androgen levels and growth hormone levels, thus robbing you of some serious growth potential.

10. Consuming insufficient protein
For a 200-pound lean male, 300 grams of protein per day would be the minimum. In fact, I think the rule should be closer to two grams of protein per pound of body weight, assuming the person is lean.

For about 70 percent of the population who is not carb tolerant, two grams per pound is good for mass gains; it can make a huge difference. Personally, I couldn’t get above 192 pounds until champion bodybuilder Milos Sarcev convinced me to get two grams of protein per pound of body weight. In a matter of eight weeks’ time I was up to 205 pounds, lean.

That being said, if an individual is carb tolerant (i.e., handles carbohydrates very well), that value would drop to 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Someone like Christian Thibaudeau, who’s not carb tolerant, should be getting 2 grams per pound. But I’d say 1 to 1.5 grams for a guy like Milos Sarcev, who would be able to wake up and drink a gallon mixture of 50 percent maple syrup and 50 percent dextrose without it affecting his blood sugar. Guys like Milos need to get 70 percent of their calories from carbs.

The bottom line is that carb intake has to be individualized to an extent. Still, most people don’t “deserve” the carbs they eat. The rule for most people is this: You have to earn your carbs!

[highiso]

All depends on the person and how close you are to your genetic potential. I've been continuing to make 3-4 lb. gains each year. How long have you been lifting? I'm up about 15 lbs. from my summer weight. Surely a few of those are LBM. Last year I put on about 22+ lbs. on my bulk. This year I've dialed it back a bit because I've learned more isn't necessarily more.

[trickyB]

So i'm back down to 73kg, 7% body fat, following another 4 months of over-eating, training..... added 2lbs/month consistently (so 8lbs total)

Muscle gained = 0

Bulking is such a big fking waste of time. My fifth "bulk" in recent years, this one was short-ish and clean at 0.5lb/week but the result is just the same as the eat-everything-in-sight for 6 months approach. Trained slightly differently this time with lots of volume as well as pushing the weight, but it makes no difference.

Bollocks.

Nothing, did you do any before and after pics or measurements? How about any changes strength?

[JRT6]

I never bulk but putting "bulking" in my sig makes me so kewl around here.

[acrawlingchaos]

All depends on the person and how close you are to your genetic potential.

This...

This past bulk was 151 at the low, to 173 in 8 months. I spend the next 12 weeks cutting to about 158-160. Each time, I know the amount of mass I gain will become smaller.


Detail your bulk? How much weight did you gain and over what amount of time? Did you break new ground on any of your lifts?

[Capt_Lou]

I'm around 230 now and just started my cut. I can say for certain that I have the same strength levels as when I was 205. See food diet does not work except to make me feel slow and lazy.

The only thing that I am doing different this time in my cut is aiming for a pound a week rather than the 2lb goal that a lot of people here hold as gospel.

[Geneius365]

Man i envy you guys! I can gain 10lbs in two days if i done eat clean. I wish to get to 7%BF, **** even 10% would be giant. Stuck around 15-18% and working my ass off. Best of luck "bulking" fellas.

[michail71]

I tend to come out of a bulk/cut cycle at about 1 lbs progress. It feels like a big letdown with all the hard work. But I sort of wonder if I'm near my rather low genetic potential. I try to do the 10% to 15% route but I usually cut at 14% because I start to feel pudgy.

At 7% body fat it has to be hard to keep on a large amount of mass.

[raynerd]

Hmmm this thread is alittle disheartening considering I am a couple weeks into a bulk. I am not going insane with eating or anything, but still, wondering if I am on the right track now?

[4g64fiero]

Op, how do we add muscle without a caloric surplus?

Also, LOL at Poloquin implying the enthalpic value of a calorie is different depending on food. Just lol.

Your sig is hilarious because you look like you are sub 8% in your avi. I pretty sure your abs count bro. Who cares if you don't weight the same as a cycled 20 yo.

[brbacquiring]

One issue here, guys, is that the more "advanced" you are the less muscle there is to be built at all. Even at my pathetic stats I wouldn't consider a full "bulk" ever again, unless I was on dat der. There's just very little more muscle than can be built on me, so any bulk will have to mostly add a load of fat. Ideally, with the right genetics, one can just permabulk and never need to cut. If that's not possible, one or two good long medium-rate bulks near the beginning of your "career" should pack on 90% of the muscle you can ever carry, and then that's about it!

Some of the avis in here are pretty impressive and if you're natty then I'm not surprised most of the bulk's gains were fat.

ANTI-BULKING FACT #6. The lower your percentage of body fat, the better your body becomes at nutrient partitioning. This means individuals with low body fat are more effective at storing the ingested nutrients in the muscle (as muscle tissue or glycogen) or in the liver (as glycogen) and less effective at storing nutrients as body fat. To put it in simpler terms, leaner individuals can eat more nutrients without gaining fat.

Heh, this is a bit confused. Lowering your bf% doesn't make you better at partitioning, but individuals with a naturally lower bf% do have much better partitioning... obviously. That is to say that there's a huge difference (hormonally, physiologically and in terms of their potential) between two individuals at the same bf%, one who cut long and hard to get there and will struggle to hold it for a week, and one who is just always at that level without trying.

[EjnarKolinkar]

So i'm back down to 73kg, 7% body fat, following another 4 months of over-eating, training..... added 2lbs/month consistently (so 8lbs total)

Muscle gained = 0

Bulking is such a big fking waste of time. My fifth "bulk" in recent years, this one was short-ish and clean at 0.5lb/week but the result is just the same as the eat-everything-in-sight for 6 months approach. Trained slightly differently this time with lots of volume as well as pushing the weight, but it makes no difference.

Bollocks.

Do you think your getting close to maxed out on mass? I remember your similar thread from last year. I imagine it would be frustrating.

Many people seem to be in similar situations, and look for subtle quality changes from year to year. A least that seems to be the consensus of those with many years if training under their belts.

Idk, seems to be their common goal to increase density, and quality when size no longer comes.

Not saying that you are in that position, but perhaps trying to steer the topic toward your real dilemma, where to go from here?

[michail71]

I've seen many guys one here that seem to be able to build crazy mass cut and repeat likes is nothing.

I've made major changes to the shape of my body but it is more or less around the same weight, give or take 8 lbs.

[Marius_Ursus]

Op, how do we add muscle without a caloric surplus?

Also, LOL at Poloquin implying the enthalpic value of a calorie is different depending on food. Just lol.

Your sig is hilarious because you look like you are sub 8% in your avi. I pretty sure your abs count bro. Who cares if you don't weight the same as a cycled 20 yo.

So you think the net calorie value of a gram of beef liver is exactly the same as the net value of a gram of sugar?

[michail71]

Surprised none of the huge guys have come on here yet and said to just eat more.

[4g64fiero]

So you think the net calorie value of a gram of beef liver is exactly the same as the net value of a gram of sugar?

Chemically, the energy is the same PER calorie. Since calories are the units we use to quantify the energy available, it's ABSURD to state otherwise.

In your example,you are trying to compare mass versus calories, that is unrelated.

It is a whole different story to say the joules in a sweet potato are different than the joules in a burger. That is a completely ILLOGICAL statement.

[acrawlingchaos]

So you think the net calorie value of a gram of beef liver is exactly the same as the net value of a gram of sugar?

Provided I have already meet my quota for protein and BCAA consumption, plain sugar could be of greater value than "additional" BCAA's.

[Marius_Ursus]

Chemically, the energy is the same PER calorie. You are trying to compare mass versus calories, that is unrelated.

Is it mass that affects the metabolic impact of digestion?

I honestly don't know.

[Marius_Ursus]

Provided that I have already meet my quota for protein and BCAA consumption, I would be willing to say that the value of plain sugar could be of greater value than "additional" BCAA's.

It certainly wins in the brownies department.

[acrawlingchaos]

It certainly wins in the brownies department.

It certainly does, or energy drinks in my case.

I will agree that the energy/value/use of any macro is completely within the context of one's diet. To simply say that protein = carb in terms of energy values is over simplified.

[discdoggie]

So i'm back down to 73kg, 7% body fat, following another 4 months of over-eating, training..... added 2lbs/month consistently (so 8lbs total)

Muscle gained = 0

Bulking is such a big fking waste of time. My fifth "bulk" in recent years, this one was short-ish and clean at 0.5lb/week but the result is just the same as the eat-everything-in-sight for 6 months approach. Trained slightly differently this time with lots of volume as well as pushing the weight, but it makes no difference.

Bollocks.

I would never intentionally "bulk" again, either. (I fall off the strict-nutrition wagon every year and get softer and fatter, but that's not the same thing as "I am intentionally going to eat more---force-feed myself if necessary---so I can grow muscles.")

Have you ever done a bulk longer than 6 months, though? Say, a year? I'm no expert, but the only intentional bulk I ever did was a year and at the end I did have reasonably appreciable gains.

[michail71]

I keep thinking I need bulk hard because of my smallish size but even gaining fat seems to be tough for me at my current LBM. I always seem to struggle with the question of if I should be eating a 3800-4000 calorie diet or just coast easy around 3000~3100.

I have way too much stress which is probably holding me back too.

[JRT6]

Everyone reps you when you post that you're bulking.

[discdoggie]

Everyone reps you when you post that you're bulking.

Everyone reps you when you post something patriotic, jesus-based, mention health or marital problems, or show tits. (female)

[jamest2k]

So i'm back down to 73kg, 7% body fat, following another 4 months of over-eating, training..... added 2lbs/month consistently (so 8lbs total)

Muscle gained = 0

Bulking is such a big fking waste of time. My fifth "bulk" in recent years, this one was short-ish and clean at 0.5lb/week but the result is just the same as the eat-everything-in-sight for 6 months approach. Trained slightly differently this time with lots of volume as well as pushing the weight, but it makes no difference.

Bollocks.

You're right, bulking's for idiots, unless you're on drugs. The mirror should be your guide, but how can it be if you're on a bulk and everything's covered in a layer of fat?

Besides, when you cut you're going to lose the same percentage of muscle gained that was supposedly the advantage of a bulk. Nobody cuts for x amount of time and retains all their muscle mass and strength.

[discdoggie]

Besides, when you cut you're going to lose the same percentage of muscle gained that was supposedly the advantage of a bulk.

Well, that's why I was thinking a longer, slower bulk *might* be more effective? Maybe not; what do I know? It WAS in the earlier years of my training, so I probably woulda grew anyway regardless of what I did.

[jamest2k]

Well, that's why I was thinking a longer, slower bulk *might* be more effective? Maybe not; what do I know? It WAS in the earlier years of my training, so I probably woulda grew anyway regardless of what I did.

Yep, you would have. Besides, when is a bulk a bulk? For me its when you start losing definition and put on a percentage of body fat that you can't lose within 2 weeks.

[broad.stance]

I've seen many guys one here that seem to be able to build crazy mass cut and repeat likes is nothing.

I've made major changes to the shape of my body but it is more or less around the same weight, give or take 8 lbs.

Is that 8 lbs. in muscle? If so, that's a noticeable amount on the body.

I would never intentionally "bulk" again, either. (I fall off the strict-nutrition wagon every year and get softer and fatter, but that's not the same thing as "I am intentionally going to eat more---force-feed myself if necessary---so I can grow muscles.")

Have you ever done a bulk longer than 6 months, though? Say, a year? I'm no expert, but the only intentional bulk I ever did was a year and at the end I did have reasonably appreciable gains.

Pfftt. You'd need to bulk that long just to tell.

Women put on a pound of muscle in a month and then after all that work they can lose it just as fast as men when decreasing bodyfat. I don't know how you double-Xs differentiate LBM gains from normal weight fluctuations on a weekly basis, but it gives me a good idea of why women working towards that goal are VERY focused. They simply do not have time to fuck around.