Bulking is a complete waste of time

[Caesura75]

**Curious how a person with no avi, completely obsessed with weight loss and sleep apnea, has amassed 1166 reps in under 100 posts**

Not overly curious though as I can't be bothered to check.

[TaRockula]

I get that it's free and you can say what you want but you come off as an ass attacking a respected member. I don't even necessarily agree with the bulking thing (as I mentioned in my first post #91 above). But that's not the point, the point is you come off as a douchebag.

This thread will show up on a Google search.....and anyone who has ever had sleep apnea will see you as the d- bag....not me.

Bulking is not recommended for anyone who is at risk for sleep apnea.

[TaRockula]

**Curious how a person with no avi, completely obsessed with weight loss and sleep apnea, has amassed 1166 reps in under 100 posts**

Not overly curious though as I can't be bothered to check.

3 forum threads about sleep apnea in the last week.....all from members of this open and free site...I read them and then I left comments here.

[drudixon]

3 forum threads about sleep apnea in the last week.....all from members of this open and free site...I read them and then I left comments here.

OMG.. Sleep apnea...

With all the bad backs, painful joints and self esteem that's been fixed on this site, I guess we better tell everyone to forget what they've accomplished because sleep apnea is coming....

[ricktbaker]

3 forum threads about sleep apnea in the last week.....all from members of this open and free site...I read them and then I left comments here.

You do know that your post history is visible to everyone correct? I was curious about your advice in those threads about sleep apnea. Funny...I couldn't find one.

[TaRockula]

You do know that your post history is visible to everyone correct? I was curious about your advice in those threads about sleep apnea. Funny...I couldn't find one.

Cyber stalk much...weirdo?

[TaRockula]

OMG.. Sleep apnea...

With all the bad backs, painful joints and self esteem that's been fixed on this site, I guess we better tell everyone to forget what they've accomplished because sleep apnea is coming....

It is more prevalent than you know....educate yourself...then come back and apologize.( or continue to post know it all ******* posts that show you are a prick!)

[induced_drag]

..
And about the pics....this is the internet....do you still actually believe that a pic online proves anything.????

Photo shop and copy paste is proof pics mean nothing! (damn!).

Yes you are right....it is amazing what you can find on the net and photoshop. Look what I just found!




Now lets test your reading comprehension.....I said apnea is something I had touches of long before I got back in the gym. (read nothing has really changed except I am in A LOT better shape and healthier now). It is something that runs in my family. In their teens both my sister and brother both had tonsils removed due to breathing issues and sleeping. I avoided it as I was very small built. Even at 18yo I was only 145 lbs. As I grew into my body, the snoring came on.

I only suffer touches of it when I do two things,....eat high carbs and high sodium for several days. No different now then when I was not working out


Now can you move on and let a productive thread go on?...

Oh by the way....feel free to post up a pic of yourself so we can see who we are taking advice from .

[michail71]

I was on so called "bulking" phase for last 2 months. Started eating over maintenance (2 extra protein meals/day). While my arms/shoulders started looking fuller, I lost the 'leanness' in my tummy area. At times, I felt more bloated (drank lot of water). Before I was skinny and eating at maintenance, my belly would look flatter. Now I've added over 4lbs but added little bit of fat around my lower waist as well. Don't know how you guys manage to consume 3000+ cals daily and still be ripped.

Now I'm just going back to lifting hard and eating at maintenance (with 1 day cheat in the weekend). I find this easier to manage (I do IF in the morning on most days and then start eating from 1pm-8pm). If I was competing, I'd have cleaned up my bulk diet down to the macro but as it, I simply wanna stick to a daily routine without the need to bulk/cut, etc.

I guess in the end, it all depends on the physique/personal fitness goals :-).

3000 to 3100 seems to be around my maintenance. Why I don't know as I have a desk job. I took a slow bulk up to 3200 and later to 3500 calories for a while. I even stalled on weight gain at 3200. I recently hit near 15% body fat. I still have faint abs and good vascularity.

I'm now cutting on 2500. My fear right now is I'm going to get to 10% in 8 or 9 weeks and be right back where I started the bulk. Perhaps I'll pick up a pound if I'm lucky. If it takes me 6 to 7 months to recomp a pound I'll just have to accept the fact.

Oh, and I don't attribute this to my age. I think I would have had just as hard a time at 20.

[TaRockula]

Yes you are right....it is amazing what you can find on the net and photoshop. Look what I just found!




Now lets test your reading comprehension.....I said apnea is something I had touches of long before I got back in the gym. (read nothing has really changed except I am in A LOT better shape and healthier now). It is something that runs in my family. In their teens both my sister and brother both had tonsils removed due to breathing issues and sleeping. I avoided it as I was very small built. Even at 18yo I was only 145 lbs. As I grew into my body, the snoring came on.

I only suffer touches of it when I do two things,....eat high carbs and high sodium for several days. No different now then when I was not working out


Now can you move on and let a productive thread go on?...

Oh by the way....feel free to post up a pic of yourself so we can see who we are taking advice from .

Oh, OK....thanks for the pic...............and next time I feel the need to prove something to a total stranger online, I will consider your taunt to post personal info on a public site....OK?..LOL

[drudixon]

It is more prevalent than you know....educate yourself...then come back and apologize.( or continue to post know it all ******* posts that show you are a prick!)

LOL you're a total douchebag with nothing to show for yourself. Enjoy nerd raging as you come to realize that not only are you socially inept irl, but online as well.

I'm well aware of sleep apnea having car pooled with a guy for years who had it. Like any malaise, you deal with it, but you don't stop for it.

[induced_drag]

Oh, OK....thanks for the pic...............and next time I feel the need to prove something to a total stranger online, I will consider your taunt to post personal info on a public site....OK?..LOL

Great. Now that we understand each other.....lets get back to the topic

[Brackneyc]

Great. Now that we understand each other.....lets get back to the topic

Good call. I think bulking is a fine idea. But, like anything else, it must be monitored and adjusted. If all else fails, consult a professional.

[OutOfStep]

Go bear mode and become alpha.

^^^^This kid gets it. Not sure what all the debate is about. Thick and powerful > Not thick and powerful. All day, every day. Not gonna get there doing your ****gy "recomps" boys and girls. Don't let the fear of getting a little blur in your midsection keep you looking like Harry Potter with a sixpack your whole life.

[michail71]

**Curious how a person with no avi, completely obsessed with weight loss and sleep apnea, has amassed 1166 reps in under 100 posts**

Not overly curious though as I can't be bothered to check.

That is rather curious. That outdoes the girls getting reps for nude shots.

[PersonaNonGrata]

I should probably used a more qualified thread title, like

"Based on my experiences over the last few years, bulking is a complete waste of time for me"

Some interesting points, and some strong opinions..... thx

[michail71]

I should probably used a more qualified thread title, like

"Based on my experiences over the last few years, bulking is a complete waste of time for me"

Some interesting points, and some strong opinions..... thx

Not all of us are blessed with the ability to go bear mode and get away with it. My ability to partition just doesn't allow for it and I'd just start looking like a fat out of shape guy that doesn't lift. I do all I can but it seems I'm limited to about 2 lbs of lbm per year unless I want to be 20% body fat or higher. Knowing that I know it will take me some more years to get to my goal.

I'm also sticking to the 10% to 15% range. My body seems to like to stay in the 12.5-13%. I was once in the 20% range when I started and ID persuaded me to get leaner.

Though in your case it could be you're just trying to stay too lean.

[sytun]

It is more prevalent than you know....educate yourself...then come back and apologize.( or continue to post know it all ******* posts that show you are a prick!)

I seem to remember a guy getting banned here in the OV35s for calling another guy a Prick, you should try and be a little more respectful to others even if you don't have the same opinion as they do.

[Big_Sky_Guy]

Just to throw some things out there. There is no fallacy (with all due respect). Eating is MOST powerful tool we have in gaining lean mass. There have been studies where they overfed people with a calorie surplus (without any weight training). Aprox 30% of the weight they gained was lean mass. WITHOUT any training. Another study would surprise people. Sumo wrestlers have been shown to have greater LBM then Mr Olympia contestants. Overeating sets into motion some of the bodies most anabolic hormones.

I have no problem standing corrected.

I was focused on the demand side of the equation rather than being honest about the supply side. We will add muscle to carry around the extra overall body weight even if we do not train.

[yepitsme]

First, the following is just my way of doing things and there are many ways. Also I want to state that I no longer am as regimented as I was for the first couple of years when I got back to the gym. If I am honest with myself, there is not a lot of room for me to 'grow' regardless of what I do. (well I do have another avenue. ) I am happy with where I am now, and enjoy a more well rounded lifestyle.

With that said, things were quite different when I first returned to the gym and I had A LOT of lost time to make up for. I wanted to do things in the most efficient path forward, so nutrition was paramount. For just over 2 years I tracked and planned EVERY meal and hit every macro goal within 3-5 grams per day. (yea....a little obsessive, but it was what I felt I needed to do) And there is no arguing with the results I got....and these were 100% natural....and actually done while I had low-t and did not even know it.

Here is a timeline of my successive bulks and cuts. In the last pic, I had just gotten on TRT for 2 months, so pretty much 98% of this was done with the test levels of a 12year old girl and ALSO hypothyroid. (to be clear, I am only speaking about natural gains, and not referring to supplemented ones) The rules change somewhat after that....but regardless of what people want to think, they are not THAT much different.


**Removed due to lack of posts**


I just want to put that out there since I feel too many people talk about what to do, yet have little to back up what they say.

With that said....I found my favorite thing to do in both bulks AND cuts is carb cycle. Just to give you an idea of the variety of my cal levels, here is a scan of my stickies that I would put on my desk when I adjusted macros. There were more, but I just saved the ones I used most often. This was my what I ate over time. You can see it does take some planning.

The big number is cals.

The 'hi' and 'low' are carb levels.

The days of the week each have a different carb level which correspond to my workouts.

Fat and pro were mostly constants.

If you look close, there were even times I would cycle my fat on various days. I was very regimented and did LOTS of trial and error.

I can share more if interested, but I dont want to derail this thread too much

**Removed due to lack of posts**

Were you working out on MWF with lower carbs on the off days?

[machined]

You must not be aware of absorption rates... Inefficient foods are labeled at 100 percent value. It's not a calorie if you never digest it or metabolize it in some way . It's just sht.

In between ignorantly judging people, Google pdcaa. Compare whey to peanuts. A gram of whey protein is 100% digestible. 1 gram of peanut protein is a hair over 50 percent digestible. Both labels would calculate 7 calories per gram of each, but in the case of peanuts, it's worth half much.

Same premise applies to fats and carbs as well.

If true (haven't researched this yet), this is probably the most profound (and provocative) post I've ever read here regarding diet/ nutrition. Would explain why so many fail to gain LBM on adequate cals and perceived ratios, and why people lose lbm on a cut while eating sufficient cals (and what they believe is) adequate amounts of protein. This principle should have its own thread. Its that important.

Side note: I believe Metzger advocated no bulking and said that a BBer only needs 15-20 cals per day over maintenance to gain max LBM.

[michail71]

If true (haven't researched this yet), this is probably the most profound (and provocative) post I've ever read here regarding diet/ nutrition. Would explain why so many fail to gain LBM on adequate cals and perceived ratios, and why people lose lbm on a cut while eating sufficient cals (and what they believe is) adequate amounts of protein. This principle should have its own thread. Its that important.

Side note: I believe Metzger advocated no bulking and said that a BBer only needs 15-20 cals per day over maintenance to gain max LBM.

I think genetics would still be a bigger factor. I looked up pdcaa and found most of my diet was rather high with the exception of peanuts (but peanut butter may be different). Wheat is rather low but I'm gluten sensitive so I don't eat any of that.

I also get a bit of Aminogen enzymes in my diet. No idea if that helps at all.

15-20 calories seems seems low. That's too close to tracking margin of error.

[anonymous]

That sumo thing is what Dante strudel used to use to rationalize the permabulking aspect of doggcrapp, but no way is a morbidly obese drug free sumo carrying more actual muscle than Ronnie Coleman in his prime (on enough drugs to kill a bull elephant). More water and fat in the muscle sure, but not actual muscle size. Uh nuh.

This thread is making me hungry.

[drudixon]

If true (haven't researched this yet), this is probably the most profound (and provocative) post I've ever read here regarding diet/ nutrition. Would explain why so many fail to gain LBM on adequate cals and perceived ratios, and why people lose lbm on a cut while eating sufficient cals (and what they believe is) adequate amounts of protein. This principle should have its own thread. Its that important.

Side note: I believe Metzger advocated no bulking and said that a BBer only needs 15-20 cals per day over maintenance to gain max LBM.

Another related word is bioavailability, but it tends to be related to pharmaceuticals. People can play tricks with certain pharmas, like consuming grapefruit to increase potency, however that can be very dangerous as bioavailability is already considered when dosing. For example, oral dhea is only 3% bioavailable. That's awful. The issue of food is compounded by people's uniqueness. Folks have different allergies, different speed metabolisms etc. For example, my girlfriend and I both got food poisoning. I had the sh!ts in 30 minutes and felt bad for about 6 hours. She had throwing up and the sh!ts 8 hours later and felt bad for 2 days.

When figuring out this stuff, it's really hard. Is speed of metabolism a factor? Are allergies a factor? Are totals macros a factor? Is the quality of the food a factor? It could be any number of things, or some permutation of all of them. While I don't keep a feed journal, I think for some people there could be huge benefits. Anecdotally, I know for me, I can bulk more easily without coffee and soda. It's not the caffeine, it's the acid. Kinda gross, but I can see big differences in the stool and how fast the scale climbs. I've been remiss in cutting out both for the most recent bulk, but likely will have to break down and do it.

Regarding a thread on it, it'd be hard to put all that together. Somebody like Emma Leigh or Alan Aragon could, but no way I could.

[scullin]

^^^^This kid gets it. Not sure what all the debate is about. Thick and powerful > Not thick and powerful. All day, every day. Not gonna get there doing your ****gy "recomps" boys and girls. Don't let the fear of getting a little blur in your midsection keep you looking like Harry Potter with a sixpack your whole life.

Kidding, but not everyone is a skinny 19 year old that has no muscle and needs to bulk. I think a skinny newb should definitely bulk but once you get to a certain point it's not as beneficial.

[michail71]

Another related word is bioavailability, but it tends to be related to pharmaceuticals. People can play tricks with certain pharmas, like consuming grapefruit to increase potency, however that can be very dangerous as bioavailability is already considered when dosing. For example, oral dhea is only 3% bioavailable. That's awful. The issue of food is compounded by people's uniqueness. Folks have different allergies, different speed metabolisms etc. For example, my girlfriend and I both got food poisoning. I had the sh!ts in 30 minutes and felt bad for about 6 hours. She had throwing up and the sh!ts 8 hours later and felt bad for 2 days.

When figuring out this stuff, it's really hard. Is speed of metabolism a factor? Are allergies a factor? Are totals macros a factor? Is the quality of the food a factor? It could be any number of things, or some permutation of all of them. While I don't keep a feed journal, I think for some people there could be huge benefits. Anecdotally, I know for me, I can bulk more easily without coffee and soda. It's not the caffeine, it's the acid. Kinda gross, but I can see big differences in the stool and how fast the scale climbs. I've been remiss in cutting out both for the most recent bulk, but likely will have to break down and do it.

Regarding a thread on it, it'd be hard to put all that together. Somebody like Emma Leigh or Alan Aragon could, but no way I could.

Are you saying the acid in coffee impacts bioavailability? I'm a heavy drinker myself.

[drudixon]

Are you saying the acid in coffee impacts bioavailability? I'm a heavy drinker myself.

No, I'm saying it makes my stools loose, not that you wanted to know that. For most people probably not.

[jobronze]

I bulked for the entire year of 2013. I figured Id go for gold. ..tracked every bite, macro and almost never missed a gym session. Complete tool to my wife and friends.

Now I barely look like I lift and will have a tough spring cut ahead. And with this bulk I can't even claim I got fatceps out it, so what the hell was the point???

yearly muscle growth really is barley noticable for most. Me thinks I could have gotten the same amount of growth hovering around maintenance .

Lesson learned, I'm not some 18 y/o at 130lbs with plenty of room to fill out.

[brava]

I bulked for the entire year of 2013. I figured Id go for gold. ..tracked every bite, macro and almost never missed a gym session. Complete tool to my wife and friends.

Now I barely look like I lift and will have a tough spring cut ahead. And with this bulk I can't even claim I got fatceps out it, so what the hell was the point???

yearly muscle growth really is barley noticable for most. Me thinks I could have gotten the same amount of growth hovering around maintenance .

Lesson learned, I'm not some 18 y/o at 130lbs with plenty of room to fill out.

I also believe that around maintenance I can build the couple of lbs per year of LBM, considering my body fat level. I think that the fat deposits are used to fuel the little muscle growth even if I eat only at maintenance. The problem though will be for those with body fat into single digits, they should get some surplus eating.

[Taichichuan]

So i'm back down to 73kg, 7% body fat, following another 4 months of over-eating, training..... added 2lbs/month consistently (so 8lbs total)

Muscle gained = 0

Bulking is such a big fking waste of time. My fifth "bulk" in recent years, this one was short-ish and clean at 0.5lb/week but the result is just the same as the eat-everything-in-sight for 6 months approach. Trained slightly differently this time with lots of volume as well as pushing the weight, but it makes no difference.

Bollocks.

You've got to keep your caloric intake high. Don't do every exercise under the sun.
8-12 exercises should be your limit.
No damn split routines. 1hr. 15min. on the gym floor.
Full body workout routines only. Old School. 3-4 days. M-W-F or M-T-TH-F.