**The Official Engineers/Engineering Thread V2**

[cncman]

Thanks bro, I figured I shouldn't mind eating **** for my first job. I hear of people going half a year to a full year jobless before anything comes around and this is giving me a chance to get experience and money.

Btw, how's your business going?

Slow. I'm directing operations at a semicon company in Austin in the meantime. Building a network behind the scenes lol.

[the_individualist]

For those that didn't see before, I'm the guy from a few pages back (133) who was unable to find a job after graduating in May 2013 with a BS in Chem E.

In an attempt to finally start my career, I decided to go for a Master's in Bioengineering, and leverage this into gaining some kind of experience that would enable me to get a job after graduating. It is essentially my only option at this point.

I started as a non-degree grad at another university, trying out classes in bioengineering. After deciding to pursue a Bioengineering Master's in the program I asked the instructors of these classes to write letters of recommendation for me (to which they happily agreed), and I applied.

Amazingly, I was accepted. In the application essays I was upfront about my inability to find a job after graduating, and about my mediocre undergrad GPA, but I was able to spin everything in a positive light and frame myself as ready for graduate level work. I think my high GRE scores and recommendation letters from people in the department helped too.

So far, I've aced all my classes, and even obtained a research fellowship. As a non-degree grad I was also able to use my association with the university to land a clinical equipment technician job at the university-affiliated hospital, so that I could finally leave part-time ranch work for 4K per year behind. But now I'm looking for summer internships, and despite the vast improvement in my resume due to the technician job, Master's student status, and fellowship, it is apparently just as hard to find an internship as an actual job. In the first place, there are very few opportunities I can find, and insofar as there are opportunities, I am hitting the same exact walls I hit while searching for a job (competition with people who already have experience, resume getting sucked into the HR black hole, "under-" or "overqualified" for the role, etc.) This is ridiculous...you now apparently need some kind of magical experience to get a chance to gain internship experience which will convince people to hire you so you can get job experience. I feel like everyone else in engineering is part of some secret club that I am denied access to, like I'm playing some game that is rigged against me. No matter what I do to try to get started (let alone to get ahead), it is never enough.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I call companies to try to "create" opportunities? Who exactly should I contact (especially if they don't have any internships explicitly listed)? And what exactly should I say? Should I simply ask about internship opportunities, or should I straight up tell them I am willing to work as an intern on whatever project they need me for? For those of you that have successfully acquired internships in the past, how did you do it? Any other advice related to starting a career, gaining the relevant skills and experience, and so on? Was going the Master's route a mistake?

I'll be honest, I've been so busy with classes, the technician job, and the fellowship (when I can even find time for that), that I haven't been attending any career fairs or other networking events (though I have been jumping on opportunities as I find out about them through the department). After this semester though, I will be 100% done with my course requirements, and that will clear up my schedule a lot so I can start doing these things.

I know that if I don't get some kind of industry experience before graduating, I will be back to square one: unable to start my career, only this time with loan debt. I doubt the fellowship and project/thesis experience alone will be enough to convince someone in industry to hire me. So I'm starting to get really worried, and starting to feel like the Master's might also be for nothing. I'm 28 years old and have already missed out on 5 years of experience and compensation- the possibility I will get my Master's and then fall deeper into this post-grad purgatory is concerning.

For the record, I'm interested in assistive and medical devices, and my Master's project will probably be on machine learning for socially assistive robots. Basically I'm interested in the interface between devices and the patient, so machine learning, signal processing, etc. For me the holy grail would be implantable brain devices, but that's cutting edge stuff well beyond the scope of a Master's project. As a Chem E student I was always more interested in devices (biosensors, microfluidics, etc.) than processes, and insofar as I was interested in processes my interest was biochemical processes (hence my choice of Bioengineering for my Master's)- hopefully in a career in the future I will be able to call upon this Chem E side of things to work on such implantable devices.

[jinda628]

For those that didn't see before, I'm the guy from a few pages back (133)...

Where are you from?
I have little knowledge about the market for Chem Engg grad honestly. Your chosen field seems to be very specialized and sounds like a very small market.

Most of the professionals I know with Chem Engg degree are working in processing plants, manufacturing and energy sectors.

Aren't you open in trying other Chem Engg jobs that are more mainstream at least just to get a chance to penetrate the market? It's either you'll like it and stay in that industry or later on use the network of people that you will establish to help you transition to your chosen field.

Edit:

I tried to look for your previous post but can't find it. There's not page 133 yet. Or is that post# 133 because its not also from you.

Edit2: Nvm, I think I found all your post, all 2 or 3 of them.

[the_individualist]

Thank you for the reply, and thanks for taking the time to find my other posts. Despite my 2006 join date I still don't quite have enough posts to post links haha.

I'm in the Western US (close to the Midwest).

I have little knowledge about the market for Chem Engg grad honestly. Your chosen field seems to be very specialized and sounds like a very small market.

Most of the professionals I know with Chem Engg degree are working in processing plants, manufacturing and energy sectors.

I think you're right, and that was probably a contributing factor to my unemployment after graduation: I had some biology lab experience, but no specialized, industry internship experience.

Aren't you open in trying other Chem Engg jobs that are more mainstream at least just to get a chance to penetrate the market? It's either you'll like it and stay in that industry or later on use the network of people that you will establish to help you transition to your chosen field.

I completely agree. For the first month or two following graduation, I was only looking at the bio-related stuff in-state, but after not finding a job I quickly broadened my search to include ALL types of Chem E jobs, all across the country (I even applied to some international positions, as well). Unfortunately this didn't help.

Since I'm more interested in the bioengineering side of things, I probably would have had to get a Master's to change my career direction anyway, and it definitely would have been a million times better to get a more conventional Chem E job, then choose to either stay in that industry or leverage the experience, money, network, etc., to help change my career direction and fund any further education. In the end though I didn't have this choice, unfortunately. And now 5 years later, I think any window of opportunity for that is long gone.

[jinda628]

And now 5 years later, I think any window of opportunity for that is long gone.

It's never actually too late. I'm not sure how or what steps you're doing to find a job but are you using every channel possible to put yourself out there? Be sure to do the following if you haven't done so:

• Prepare a standard cover letter. Then customize it depending on the type of application you're submitting. Elaborate your intention that you are willing to start over etc. I always have this updated in my google drive so I can access and forward it anytime if I need to.
• Make your resume updated not just on information but also on presentation. Not too long but not too short and make sure it highlights your strength.
• Sign up with LinkedIn - search for networks even if you dont know them as long as they are in the same field. Follow known companies who are in your target industry as they usually post their requirements.
• Still in LinkedIn - add and follow recruitment companies. Be active and DM them that you are looking for jobs. Recruiters usually will accommodate you since they need to have huge pool of professionals ready for any requirements.
• Register and fill your info in online job sites. - this will get boring but you need to keep up with it.
• Go to company websites and browse their career sections - some companies do not post their requirements to online job search sites. Some of them just post it in their own job boards.
• Search Reddit job page.
• Register on professional organizations for your discipline.
• Etc etc

There are more ways to advertise yourself or look for a job aside from what I mentioned above.
Dont lose hope. GL!

[the_individualist]

It's never actually too late. I'm not sure how or what steps you're doing to find a job but are you using every channel possible to put yourself out there? Be sure to do the following if you haven't done so:

Yes, I did those things and more, with the exception of the last two things you listed (I considered joining AIChE, but until just last year I have literally not been able to afford things like $200 membership payments; and I didn’t know Reddit had a job board, so I will have to check that out).

However, I have not used or updated my LinkedIn in a couple years, so I think it would be a good idea to get back on, update my educational and job information, and do the things you suggested. Maybe I will have better results this time? It might be a good place to look for internships too...

I really hope you are right that it’s not too late. I will admit though that I am very skeptical of that, based on research which has found that after an employment gap of only six months, most employers won’t even consider someone; based on my experience thus far; and based on feedback from engineers in industry. One chemical engineer I contacted (about a year into my search) on LinkedIn urged me to find a job soon, saying that once it had been a couple years post-graduation with no experience it would be like I didn’t even have a degree. Another person I contacted via e-mail recommended I go for a Master’s degree at that point, otherwise my chances of employment would continue to be small. And these were the people nice enough to reply. Most people I contacted (whether by phone, e-mail, LinkedIn, in person) wouldn’t reply or give me the time of day.

There are more ways to advertise yourself or look for a job aside from what I mentioned above.
Dont lose hope. GL!

Again I appreciate the reply and the good wishes. As soul crushing as my experience has been, I have not given up, by any means.

[axiom15]

Geez, been applying to jobs lately with no luck once again. Although I'm currently under consideration for a consulting gig and also a field engineering position. Really discouraging

[jinda628]

based on research which has found that after an employment gap of only six months, most employers won’t even consider someone;

This is usually the case but it's not like a rule or something. I was unemployed for 2 occasions during my professional career. 7 mos in 2010 and 7 mos in 2016. This is not to convince you that you can stay unemployed longer but just to tell you there's always hope.

[the_individualist]

This is usually the case but it's not like a rule or something. I was unemployed for 2 occasions during my professional career. 7 mos in 2010 and 7 mos in 2016. This is not to convince you that you can stay unemployed longer but just to tell you there's always hope.

Sure, but that is kind of like saying “There’s always a chance you’ll win the lottery.” The probability of finding a job while unemployed (or employed outside the given field) doesn’t hit zero after a specific time, but after half a year (let alone five...) this probability drops off big time. The probability I’ll get an engineering job right now isn’t as low as that of me winning the lottery of course, but it’s low enough that the analogy is valid. It seems my best option is to change my probability somehow, rather than continuing to play the game as is.

[the_individualist]

Geez, been applying to jobs lately with no luck once again. Although I'm currently under consideration for a consulting gig and also a field engineering position. Really discouraging

Tell me about it man. I’m getting tired of being treated like a second-class subhuman not part of the kewl kidz klub. I’m really starting to think the vast majority of jobs are filled through pure nepotism.

[Dezzimin]

Interviewing with a huge company for a CAN Software Engineer position (I'm EE) soon, anyone have some tips or advice?

ty men

[jinda628]

Sure, but that is kind of like saying “There’s always a chance you’ll win the lottery.” The probability of finding a job while unemployed (or employed outside the given field) doesn’t hit zero after a specific time, but after half a year (let alone five...) this probability drops off big time. The probability I’ll get an engineering job right now isn’t as low as that of me winning the lottery of course, but it’s low enough that the analogy is valid. It seems my best option is to change my probability somehow, rather than continuing to play the game as is.

If that's how negative you are about finding a job you want, then I personally would not hire you and you would probably not get it.

I get that its a reality and already happening but comparing your chances even just for the sake of analogy with winning a lottery is stupid and shows a defeatist attitude.

Again, I hope you find what you are looking for man. DO NOT GIVE UP just because there's a saying about being unemployed for too long.

[jinda628]

Interviewing with a huge company for a CAN Software Engineer position (I'm EE) soon, anyone have some tips or advice?

ty men

Are you interviewing for the 1st time for this kind of job? If you have been doing this job for a long time, I don't think you need to be worried.

I always treat interviews as conversation. I don't have any notes but I have a blank paper to write on. I just answer their questions and ask questions once they are finish asking. Treating it as regular conversation and not thinking its an interview makes it easier and lessens the tension or whatever people calls it. Goodluck bro.

[the_individualist]

If that's how negative you are about finding a job you want, then I personally would not hire you and you would probably not get it.

I get that its a reality and already happening but comparing your chances even just for the sake of analogy with winning a lottery is stupid and shows a defeatist attitude.

Again, I hope you find what you are looking for man. DO NOT GIVE UP just because there's a saying about being unemployed for too long.

I'm being realistic, not necessarily negative. I'm not giving up or being defeatist: my point is I need to change my probabilities (by getting my Master's, finding an internship, etc.), rather than continuing to bang my head against the wall. I'm not moping around saying "the probability is so low I shouldn't even try", I'm saying "the probability is very low, so my energies are better directed towards doing what I can to change this probability rather than towards continuing to do what I've been doing".

The fact is, one is at the whims of the hirers and their social, emotional, and other biases. That you and others wouldn't hire someone for "being negative" kind of illustrates that. I can understand rejecting someone if they are so depressed they can't perform the job, for example. But rejecting someone for having a sober view of the probabilities of things? Sorry, but that is capricious.

Needless to say I don't act negative or anything during interviews. I ALWAYS try to act positive and spin everything in a positive way, because I know how fickle most people are over these things. Of all the interviews I've had in my life (for jobs in general), I have about a 60% success rate (and for some of the failures they told me they simply hired someone with more experience) so I don't think I'm oozing with negativity or that I have anything severely offputting about me in person.

[the_individualist]

Worse comes to worst I'll continue working menial jobs by day and start building my own business by night. If no one will hire me I'll make my own engineering job for myself. We'll see how things shape up in the next year though- maybe I'm finally in for a break.

[jinda628]

The fact is, one is at the whims of the hirers and their social, emotional, and other biases. That you and others wouldn't hire someone for "being negative" kind of illustrates that. I can understand rejecting someone if they are so depressed they can't perform the job, for example. But rejecting someone for having a sober view of the probabilities of things? Sorry, but that is capricious.

I do think no one acts negatively when being interviewed anyway. I just said that to try to ignite you

If I'm interviewing someone, I don't think it will be easy to see their outlook. So negativity would probably be not the reason not to hire them since I probably wont see it.

Needless to say I don't act negative or anything during interviews. I ALWAYS try to act positive and spin everything in a positive way, because I know how fickle most people are over these things. Of all the interviews I've had in my life (for jobs in general), I have about a 60% success rate (and for some of the failures they told me they simply hired someone with more experience) so I don't think I'm oozing with negativity or that I have anything severely offputting about me in person.

That's what I'm saying. But you need to bring that positivity over outside of interviews as well while making plans for yourself. I think I mentioned before about trying other fields or industry covered by your degree. So yes, if you are kind of negative in your original industry, maybe there will be better chances of trying something else.

[cncman]

Programming jobs involve white boards a lot of the time, although I read that's changing.
Just psuedocode and flow chart some logic to answer basic problems.
Unless you are pitching yourself as an absolute expert in Java or another language. Then write syntax.

[DrinkingBull]

Programming jobs involve white boards a lot of the time, although I read that's changing.
Just psuedocode and flow chart some logic to answer basic problems.
Unless you are pitching yourself as an absolute expert in Java or another language. Then write syntax.

Can confirm. I was white boarding from 10:00 am to 3:30 pm at my last interview. One of the questions had to do with Graph algorithms. The first hour I was asked to give a presentation (I did a code walk through). Some interviewers did ask me to write my code as close to production level as possible.

Mind you this was at the on-site after I had submitted a preliminary code sample, gone through a technical phone interview with coding problems, and met with the hiring manager off site for a behavioral.

Coding interviews are no joke.

Edit:
My advise for the above question ^^ is to buy the Cracking the Coding Interview book and drill the problems in it. Especially Graphs and Java/C++/ maybe Python Trivia questions. Most of the chit they threw at me in that interview was straight out of that book and the Algorithms one (Cormen). I mentioned Graph algorithms in particular because they're popular for interview questions.

[TMaC828]

Any brahs work with MATLAB frequently? Should I further pursue MATLAB through the material that was covered in class? Or dedicate my time to a different programing language?

[DrinkingBull]

Any brahs work with MATLAB frequently? Should I further pursue MATLAB through the material that was covered in class? Or dedicate my time to a different programing language?

It's really popular in the scientific community. If you want to get into hardcore physics/analysis/signal processing then it would probably be worth learning really well.

[cncman]

Any brahs work with MATLAB frequently? Should I further pursue MATLAB through the material that was covered in class? Or dedicate my time to a different programing language?

All of the physical hardware and software systems and math models we did at my last job used matlab. Like mentioned, digital signal processing was my matlab forte applying machine learning and edge detection. And linear algebra for many reasons. I was at an R&D company. Haven't used it in any other job. It's an awesome tool, you'll just hate it in college. Solve a real problem with it and it becomes very cool.

[SouthDakotaBrah]

Across all of the companies/clients I've worked with, not once have I ever heard of a person using MATLAB at work lol (power/utilities industry)

Depends on the industry, I don't really do any engineering, but I will say Excel is king in the field I am in

[TMaC828]

It's really popular in the scientific community. If you want to get into hardcore physics/analysis/signal processing then it would probably be worth learning really well.

All of the physical hardware and software systems and math models we did at my last job used matlab. Like mentioned, digital signal processing was my matlab forte applying machine learning and edge detection. And linear algebra for many reasons. I was at an R&D company. Haven't used it in any other job. It's an awesome tool, you'll just hate it in college. Solve a real problem with it and it becomes very cool.

Across all of the companies/clients I've worked with, not once have I ever heard of a person using MATLAB at work lol (power/utilities industry)

Depends on the industry, I don't really do any engineering, but I will say Excel is king in the field I am in

Thanks brahs.

I think I will dive into a little bit further. Not looking to master it though.

[RockyIV]

Do you know an extensive list where I could easily find an entry level job/internship in the Power field? I'm primarily using Indeed.com typing key phrases like "Electric power", "Power systems", "eletrical hvac", etc. but most of the results I'm looking for doesn't seem to be in the Power field. Although my gpa is kind of mediocre, I've actually had the privilege to work as a intern in the summer at my local airport before and gained insight to voltage drop calc, reading single line diagrams of sights all over the airport facility, and planning the electrical design of a room via autocad and revit and I didn't even take Basic Circuits during that time yet. I also want to work outside of my area as I really hate living in the bay area. Thanks

Start by going to websites for utility companies if you are interested in that. Lots of big utilities are hiring if you are willing to relocate. It also helps if you have a recommendation from a professor to a connection in the company you are trying to get hired. With most professors you have to ask and not assume they are trying to hook you up with a job.

[RockyIV]

Across all of the companies/clients I've worked with, not once have I ever heard of a person using MATLAB at work lol (power/utilities industry)

Depends on the industry, I don't really do any engineering, but I will say Excel is king in the field I am in

x2 on this. Excel is where you need to spend your time to master versus MATLAB. Only graduate schools care about that

[TMaC828]

x2 on this. Excel is where you need to spend your time to master versus MATLAB. Only graduate schools care about that

We covered excel in this class too, but it was like 3-4 weeks of Excel applications and the other 12 were MATLAB. We had to program a game. We created a hangman game through MATLAB and it was honestly a pain in the ass.

What kind of excel stuff would you recommend working on?

Also brahs. Had a phone interview yesterday for an entry level IT job. They are looking specifically for people with an active TS/SCI clearance because they've teamed with Amazon who has picked up a contract from a three letter agency and there's sensitive information. Have a face to face on Monday.

[cncman]

We covered excel in this class too, but it was like 3-4 weeks of Excel applications and the other 12 were MATLAB. We had to program a game. We created a hangman game through MATLAB and it was honestly a pain in the ass.

What kind of excel stuff would you recommend working on?

Also brahs. Had a phone interview yesterday for an entry level IT job. They are looking specifically for people with an active TS/SCI clearance because they've teamed with Amazon who has picked up a contract from a three letter agency and there's sensitive information. Have a face to face on Monday.

You aren't gonna do that kind of programming with mathematica or matlab anywhere. Its for modeling and tough matrix operations to me. I have never seen matlab used in an industry that is not R&D driven. Mostly preliminary models and internal systems projects because all the MS/PhD guys used it forever in academia.

If you wanna program and be more EE type I'd do something related to low level assembly rather than really far downstream front end/UI dev.
It can get you down the path of embedded/IC/VLSI which I like, but it all depends on what you don't find daunting to do.
Ownster in here has good insight.

Motorola 68HC12 crew

If you're dead set on IT, meh. I hate it but to each his own. Very valuable guys.
I don't give a chit personally about networks, I like physics.

[Bobs of FL]

Happy Seis De Mayo everybody. Hope y'all had a safe night! Aerospace undergrad student currently, about 19 months away from graduating down here at UCF. Any Aerospace Engineers have advice for a hopeful Propulsion Engineer? Was looking at some Lockheed job postings and they said they would want to see some vehicle design/propulsion experience which I'll start getting into. I figure I'm just far enough out to beef up my experience to fit what they're seeking, but am also seeking wisdom from those in the industry already.

[KingofLifts]

About to graduate this summer with a BSME! Any tips on the job search for an applicant with a 2.8 GPA, but lots of leadership experience in school? I was an office for our Formula SAE team.

Unfortunately didn't land any internships, so I don't even know what sort of job I should be looking for.

[jinda628]

About to graduate this summer with a BSME! Any tips on the job search for an applicant with a 2.8 GPA, but lots of leadership experience in school? I was an office for our Formula SAE team.

Unfortunately didn't land any internships, so I don't even know what sort of job I should be looking for.

You need to decide which industry you'll be interested. Construction, manufacturing, processing, design, etc. Each of those I mentioned usually have technical and management side of the profession.

I'm in the construction industry so I can only speak for that but I'm not an ME. I'm a Civil Engr but I worked with lots of people with ME degree.

As a new grad, the easiest in this industry that you can enter is with contractors. You can try applying for consulting or owner side but they usually prefer people with experience already.

• MEP Contractors (Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing)
• //Management - Estimator, Quality Control, Site Engineer, Site Inspector, Project Controls Engr, Safety Engr etc)
• //Technical - Design Engr, Draftsman, Configuration Engr, etc

MEP or mechanical contractors usually do installations for HVAC, elevators, escalators, plumbing works, fire protection, chilled water system, pumps, turbine, transmission pipelines, etc in buildings, factories, site development, power plants, etc.

There are many choices in construction alone. I'm pretty sure its the same in other industries. You just need to start researching. Goodluck.