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  1. #31
    Registered User EndLineTraining's Avatar
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    Bump for wrestlers and basketball players ending their season.
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  2. #32
    Registered User EndLineTraining's Avatar
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    TTT so people can learn something.
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  3. #33
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  4. #34
    Registered User EndLineTraining's Avatar
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    BUMP for summer training.
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  5. #35
    Registered User EndLineTraining's Avatar
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    TtT
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  6. #36
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  7. #37
    Registered User slawoti4's Avatar
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    Thoughts on dynamic body upper body work like speed bench with bands for 3 reps with 55% of your max? Or do you think it isn't useful aside from the power lifting aspect and just recommend upper body plyos like med ball throws and plyo pushups for athletes? Also with block periodization would one not adapt to the focus of the training block and lose gains from another? Like if you have an athlete do a hypertrophy then a strength block, wouldn't the athlete adapt to the strength block but lose hypertrophy? Also could you give a specific example of an athletes offseason gains from this program? Like his maxes before in bench, squat, deadlift, 40, vert, shuttle, etc and after?
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  8. #38
    Registered User EndLineTraining's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by slawoti4 View Post
    Thoughts on dynamic body upper body work like speed bench with bands for 3 reps with 55% of your max? Or do you think it isn't useful aside from the power lifting aspect and just recommend upper body plyos like med ball throws and plyo pushups for athletes? Also with block periodization would one not adapt to the focus of the training block and lose gains from another? Like if you have an athlete do a hypertrophy then a strength block, wouldn't the athlete adapt to the strength block but lose hypertrophy? Also could you give a specific example of an athletes offseason gains from this program? Like his maxes before in bench, squat, deadlift, 40, vert, shuttle, etc and after?
    1) I don't think it is needed for a HS athlete. Straight bar work plus plyo's and medball work gets the job done. 2) No. You can still keep doing higher rep work on accessory lifts on the low CNS intensive days just don't do stuff to failure on these days. 3). I'll put some stats up.
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  9. #39
    Registered User slawoti4's Avatar
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    While looking at your program I noticed you test at the 5-10-5 shuttle but never actually do any agility training. Wouldn't it be beneficial to do some agility drills that could mimic some game like situations or is it included in the speed training part of the workouts?
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  10. #40
    Registered User EndLineTraining's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by slawoti4 View Post
    While looking at your program I noticed you test at the 5-10-5 shuttle but never actually do any agility training. Wouldn't it be beneficial to do some agility drills that could mimic some game like situations or is it included in the speed training part of the workouts?
    I do agility work starting after block 4. Agility drills in my opinion are very specific to the movements of the position. Ladder drills and "quick feet" drills would not apply in my opinion. All the Alactic Capacity blocks have agility work in them.
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  11. #41
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    Come on mods make this a sticky.
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  12. #42
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    Hi Friends

    Can anyone tell me the long program for body building.
    For more body Building and Fitness go here http://www.daawn.com/
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  13. #43
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    bump this for good measure
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  14. #44
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    Bump (was in powerlifting/strongman)
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  15. #45
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  16. #46
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    You give a good argument as to why a full Olympic Clean and jerk shouldn't be performed, fair enough. But not even hang cleans? Power cleans? Are even those to technically complex for an athlete to learn you feel?
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  17. #47
    Registered User amar654's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jaywalking View Post
    You give a good argument as to why a full Olympic Clean and jerk shouldn't be performed, fair enough. But not even hang cleans? Power cleans? Are even those to technically complex for an athlete to learn you feel?
    After reading Juggernaut method 2 0 (which Is very similar to this program may I add) I realized Chad Smith makes a good point. Treat every training day like a cup. The more stuff you do the more it fills up, and add to much and it overflows(overtraining). Now for an athlete the majority of the cup is already filled with sprints, jumps, and the main lifts. Now you can add in oly lifting, but remember due to the stress they implace on your body as opposed to throws is more. But as an athlete, you still need to train a specific part of your development, sport training (running drills, playing the sport). For most average athletes, adding in the oly lifts will only take space away from the sport training at hand, while throws will still take up space, but not nearly as much. After all the human body can only take so much.


    plus, due to the fact you are catching a bar, you will decelerate during the lift to safely and successfully catch or stop the bar. For throws though you don't need to catch so you will accelerate the full way through
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by amar654 View Post
    After reading Juggernaut method 2 0 (which Is very similar to this program may I add) I realized Chad Smith makes a good point. Treat every training day like a cup. The more stuff you do the more it fills up, and add to much and it overflows(overtraining). Now for an athlete the majority of the cup is already filled with sprints, jumps, and the main lifts. Now you can add in oly lifting, but remember due to the stress they implace on your body as opposed to throws is more. But as an athlete, you still need to train a specific part of your development, sport training (running drills, playing the sport). For most average athletes, adding in the oly lifts will only take space away from the sport training at hand, while throws will still take up space, but not nearly as much. After all the human body can only take so much.


    plus, due to the fact you are catching a bar, you will decelerate during the lift to safely and successfully catch or stop the bar. For throws though you don't need to catch so you will accelerate the full way through
    It's a generally accepted fact that cleans are king for Rate of Force Development, along with box jumps and other max effort exercises. I agree that a full on Olympic clean and jerk may not carry over/carry the proper risk:reward ratio for an athlete - but eliminating the simple clean all together? I get pretty much fried after a heavy set of 5 deadlifts, so I mean if we're talking about getting tired, the deadlift taxes the body to a pretty high degree as well.

    I've never sprinted and cleaned all in the same day so I wouldn't know, but after I learned the clean I felt much more explosive and mobile on the playing field/water.
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  19. #49
    Registered User amar654's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jaywalking View Post
    It's a generally accepted fact that cleans are king for Rate of Force Development, along with box jumps and other max effort exercises. I agree that a full on Olympic clean and jerk may not carry over/carry the proper risk:reward ratio for an athlete - but eliminating the simple clean all together? I get pretty much fried after a heavy set of 5 deadlifts, so I mean if we're talking about getting tired, the deadlift taxes the body to a pretty high degree as well.

    I've never sprinted and cleaned all in the same day so I wouldn't know, but after I learned the clean I felt much more explosive and mobile on the playing field/water.
    Yes defenititly, but the fact remains you performed the lift with proper technique to get the results. There are two ways this is done: 1)Have a good coach 2(Naturally be able to perform the lift better than most. An average amount of athlete does not have that. And just teaching the athlete how to do the oly lifts takes up to much time, basicly learning the small things that take to long to teach for a sport the athlete isnt even in. Medicine balls are for the most part just more convenient and still offer the same results with less of a learning curve.
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  20. #50
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  21. #51
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    Someone make this sticky already
    Squat: 152,5kgx5
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  22. #52
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    And its a sticky! Success
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  23. #53
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    Thx for making this a sticky. There's a lot of valuable and interesting information here.
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  24. #54
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    just do it
    I've been reading all of your threads.
    Definitely some quality material here.
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  25. #55
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    No, I just got lazy and didn't make sure I was right. I guess I heard "Vandals" when they said "Vandy" during the game or something.
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    I began following Keith (endline training) once I saw his review of James Smith's - Applied Sprint Training manual. Knowing that he was influenced by James, and might even have been at Juggernaut when James was there, I couldn't help but read his stuff. Granted I don't post here, and only just started due to my recent knowledge of end line posting here, I know my "online" clout is of little substance in this community. That said, I'll offer up what I can which I know will be taken with a whole shaker of salt.

    I'm at a training age of 20+ years, and in that time have tried about everything. Systems by Joe Kenn, Buddy Morris, James Smith, Martin Rooney, Jim Wendler, Mark Rippetoe, Landon Evans, Tom Myeslinski, and a few others from elitefts. Endline's influences and experiences, prompted me to put his plan into action this week. Even at the old age of 37 I got through it with only a little soreness and slightly less speed. But one would expect that with 6 day/wk training and speed training. It will be interesting to see in a few months how the rebound of building such a large work capacity affects true speed and strength work in the later blocks. I've always striven to keep the weight room work to a minimum so that MUCH more time could be spent on the field. So this will be a change for me.

    Some of the initial work in the first 3 week block he details, seems to be a bit of overkill. But again, if it's about building general work capacity and not specific, due to the time of the year, I get it. And I won't bastardize it until I've gone through a few full blocks and need to consolidate the stressors.

    I haven't seen Keith posting much lately, based on here, his FB page, and his website. He may have moved on to bigger things. But I'll follow up on this in a few weeks. As if it will work for an advanced trainee, then it will DEFINITELY work for you younger guys.
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    Anyone heard from EndLine? I've tried to reach him via a couple different avenues. Just curious if he's still around anywhere and if perhaps some of you still speak with him via other means than this board.
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    I'll be through week 2 of this after today's session. Too early to comment on anything beyond what's already been posted by EndLine. There is definitely some cumulative fatigue setting in, which of course it to be expected. 625 yards of hill work 3 times a week along with squatting 3 times a week will do that to most anyone. But the goal is to build a large base of GENERAL work capacity, from which we can then subtract/condolidate/replace with Specific work capacity/training on down the line. And in knowing that I'm an advanced trainee, the fatigue I generate from the initial spread of CNS work will be more so than that of the youngsters on here. Case in point, my hip flexors are starting to talk back just a touch after my 3rd running session this week.

    If one is blessed with the time, it might behoove you to split the running and upper body work into 2 sessions across the day. As that workout takes 2 hours. The lower body training day is right at 1 hour. Not a necessity, but it would probably yield better sessions.

    That said, all the accessory work which seems pointless, and from a strength perspective probably is, definitely is contributing to mental toughness. I've always favored high volume strength work with the core exercises, as outlined here, but skipped the accessory work in favor of more time spent practicing/recovering. However, knowing that I DON'T want to do any of that little crap, yet force myself to can only help with mental resolve. And the sets of 15 with such exercises are done with weights that aren't damaging to muscle, so soreness is not limiting progress. There is also little impact to the CNS due to the same.

    We'll see how next week's RM testing goes.
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    RM testing went well and I was pleasantly surprised. 17 reps for my squat test, which anything over 10 is to indicate and increase in strength. After all the work in the 3-5 rep range, I was concerned that my mitochondria wouldn't be set up to allow for a "marathon" squat set.

    A couple things were reinforced with this testing result. One - High volume low rep strength work is the key to increased strength. Two - RM testing is to be avoided by anyone in season or whom has other abilities to train at any given time. My CNS is still a bit wrecked, and as soon as the test was done, I was happy with the strength gain of course. But already dreading what I knew would be a lack luster performance in the next day's sprint work. That sprint work was last night, and I was not surprised with how pathetic it was. I could barely stay on my toes while running. It was to be expected however, as the give and take is what you get once you reach a certain level of development.

    We'll see how the Bench RM testing goes in a couple days. I'm somewhat genetically gifted when it comes to lower body, so the results above might be skewed due to that fact. I don't foresee the same happening with the bench. But athletes don't run on their hands now do they.........
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    Rep test for Bench went well too. 16 reps for the RM set. Considering that I did 630 yards of hill sprints immediately prior to that, I'm sure there was some CNS drain that knocked that down a touch too. That 3rd day of hill sprints is always as much a mental battle as anything. Which again is a good thing as you are forced to think about running correctly and maintaining the proper sprint position. Not due to muscle fatigue, but rather due to the lack of mental capacity for such. And when the mental process breaks down, that's when injuries happen, games are lost, and energy use becomes inefficient to the point of faster fatigue.
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