Men Going Their Own Way [MGTOW] forums.

[Market_Pantry]

neat

[ICrapBig]

"46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege."



No self-respecting woman isn't a feminist (or, if she isn't, she doesn't know enough about it). Would you not be a part of a movement that promoted men's rights from a position of legal and social nonentity, and continued to challenge the lingering sexism of such a history, if such a movement had been necessary? Or would you be "against" it because the opposite side that always had hegemony wanted you to feel like you should be ashamed about your gender having equality?

Oh good God. This right here chaps is what the MGTOW patrons are ignoring.

No self respecting man would settle down with a feminist. Any woman who complains about her lot in western society in this day and age is either ignorant or a psycho.

[weightsbrah]

Prob agree with a lot of points they make and I think feminism is ridiculous, BUT, seems like the same gender war bs but on the other side. Like joining either the Democrats or Republicans. I'm more of a libertarian in all of this.

[weightsbrah]

Oh good God. This right here chaps is what the MGTOW patrons are ignoring.

No self respecting man would settle down with a feminist. Any woman who complains about her lot in western society in this day and age is either ignorant or a psycho.

Just let them be lonely and miserable. Most feminists are entitled upper middle class white liberal arts graduates who need to feel oppressed. They either settle down with some beta dude or convince themselves being a cougar/Sex in The City hag was what they wanted all long. Just avoid them. They're just not positive or happy people to be around.

[conceptions]

Oh good God. This right here chaps is what the MGTOW patrons are ignoring.

No self respecting man would settle down with a feminist. Any woman who complains about her lot in western society in this day and age is either ignorant or a psycho.

If these MGTOW are "self-respecting" then they're completely free to keep "banging whores [and] bitches" while perpetuating the problem that led them to be alone and self-pitying in the first place. Ain't nobody got time for that hypocritical kind of "self-respect."

[jro9999]

Citing Queen Victoria's views on feminism is:

1. Incredibly strange, showing that you're not interested or able to entertain a complex situation.

2. Kind of like using quotes from monarchs to denigrate democracy.


You're basically playing the find ~quotes online from famous people and pass them off as authoritative opinions on subjects I know nothing about~ game. Nice.

The sad thing about the MGTOW movement is precisely what you're displaying here: you need someone to hate to catalyze your own development (and then, as other posters have said, you tend to stagnate). What good can come of that if you're driven by fear and mistrust about half the population? The inflated sense of worry and urgency about the small amount of legal agency women have earned here is disturbingly blind to the many privileges that men continue to have. But then the misc has never been very good with cultural concepts. I'm not shaming individuals here, because the issue is bigger than all of us, but the whole point is that you become conscious of them-- hell, it could make you feel better about the whole situation if you want to take it that way. Nothing you did in life earned you those privileges, but, if you're going to be sexist anyways, you might as well enjoy them. Many already do whether they recognize it or not-- they relish the power that the established gender roles give them-- although they still want to play the victim card whenever possible. And, honestly, men unnecessarily playing the victim card seems like kind of a new and abhorrent side effect of cultural liberalism (although playing the victim card unnecessarily is frustrating regardless of gender). I suppose it is your right to feel like that, but that doesn't justify expressions that border on/express outright hate.

While I agree a blind hate for anything is toxic, I'm confused by this part, "The inflated sense of worry and urgency about the small amount of legal agency women have earned here is disturbingly blind to the many privileges that men continue to have"

Are you trying to argue it's wrong for men to be wary of divorce or have a distrust of marrying women?

If you were a business owner and had to hire an employee, and at any time after being hired the employee could quit or get fired, and you were legally obligated to pay half his salary for 18 years after the employee left, would you perhaps have an "inflated sense of worry and urgency about the small amount of legal agency employees have earned here"

In my opinion it's a no brainer as far as who wins in divorce courts, the ex wives. I worked with a guy who had 2 jobs, one as a ups truck loader from about 4am-10am then he came over to my work and did 1pm-9pm. I asked him once why he's working so much and he explained some of the conditions of his divorce, and he isn't an isolated incident either, millions of men are being financially burdened on a scale so massive it forces you to question why it exists. This guy works two jobs 6 days a week while his ex wife doesn't work, she was granted main custody of the kids and because they have 3 kids the judge awarded the wife with a substantial amount of child support from the husband. He works 12-14 hour days because he's legally obligated to give his ex wife a healthy weekly check, while she sits back and watches the money roll in. Does she have to prove she's spending the money on the kids, after all it is called child support, nope. Does the fact that she has a new boyfriend who also works and has money mean the ex husband can catch a break and stop paying support or get the amount reduced, nope. If he loses a job or gets fired and can't pay anymore does the court have any sympathy for him, nope. In fact failure to pay child support can lead to jail time!

This is a serious issue between men and women that I feel isn't taken seriously or gets dismissed because this happens at the expense of the man. All 50 states have some form of no-fault divorces, alimony, and child support laws on the books. Our divorce courts have created financial incentives for women to file divorce, long gone are the days you had to prove your spouse was a bad person in order to divorce them.

So many people dismiss this and act like it'll never happen to them, "oh those guys are just stupid for marrying a woman who would do that" but that misses the point completely, or even reading your post, the implication that somehow this stuff isn't relevant because men have other "privileges" so we shouldn't have concerns or criticisms when women benefit from their genders double standards.

Mindless hate and vitriol is never good, but there are serious issues between men and women when it comes to marriage and divorce, and I think these issues get underrepresented so I can understand why there is a hate or distrust.

[Acard]

I'm still convinced most of those guys are FA's.

There IS value to a good girlfriend/wife.

i think the key word is GOOD. thes gguys are not finding good ones and the numbers have a reduce some

[Yero91]

In for later

[MajesticLion]

[weightsbrah]

If these MGTOW are "self-respecting" then they're completely free to keep "banging whores [and] bitches" while perpetuating the problem that led them to be alone and self-pitying in the first place. Ain't nobody got time for that hypocritical kind of "self-respect."

Would most guys want to marry this chick or a bitchy feminist?

[KingOfCastle]

"46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege."



No self-respecting woman isn't a feminist (or, if she isn't, she doesn't know enough about it). Would you not be a part of a movement that promoted men's rights from a position of legal and social nonentity, and continued to challenge the lingering sexism of such a history, if such a movement had been necessary? Or would you be "against" it because the opposite side that always had hegemony wanted you to feel like you should be ashamed about your gender having equality?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA, OH MY GOD DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND YOURSELF.


Strong feminist logic, GTFO

[WAviking24]

What is happening to the male gender....our ancestors. Hell, our grandpas would be so embarrassed of this generation lol.

[Quibble]

Ok, feminism in its current incarnation is hilarious but...


MGTOW are losers who can't capitalize on all the no strings attached pussy available these days


carry on

[Bonesyy]

Would most guys want to marry this chick or a bitchy feminist?

wouldwife/10

wait?


wouldbewith/10

[MrJensenn]

The video with the female doctor is really good. It is true that the financial and the lawful status of marriage is only in favor of women.

If I was to marry in my 20s I would have to sign many documents etc. so that my wife couldn't divorce me then run my company into bankruptcy.
It is actually very sad, that if you love someone that if you one day lose the connection with them, they can actually **** you over bigtime, get all your money etc. If that is fair, well then go sign over all your cash.

[05impalaSS]

That was a good vid

[CitizenVagrant]

I find this whole backlash interesting because it seems like it doesn't recognize that feminism is a reaction to a male world throughout history.

First wave was. Third wave, not so much. Even some of the founders of first wave feminism have stated that it has long since abandoned any idea of equality and since progressed to seeking dominance.

That dominance is in defining what it means to be masculine by levying mass shame on Men for traditionally masculine activities.

What has happened in the last 100 years that has made all definitions of men contingent on women

It would be difficult to summarize without touching on a bunch of how / why tangents, but the tl;dr is:

Early to mid 1900's Women's Rights -> 1960's Feminism -> Gender biased legislation and courts -> Destruction of the family -> Massive number of single parent (matriarchal) households

= Generation of boys raised by women

The result of which is the current crop of women who bemoan ad nauseam the boys who "never grow up." How did you expect a boy to answer the male condition when you have removed all male role models from his life and shame every bit of masculine behavior he ever engaged in?

I don't think feminism is out to define masculinity.

They are: by trying to convince Men that "privileges" still exist, and shaming behavior that is not beneficial to women. At best it's misinformation. At worst it's active subversion. My dead great-grandfather might have enjoyed male "privilege" in leading a family and getting a job. I enjoy a 55%+ divorce rate and the worst job market since the great depression. The same double standard applies over and over again, no matter the venue.

It's the same line of reasoning that a feminist uses when convincing men that men should still abide by chivalrous activity like paying for dates, vacations, and all sorts of other expenses in the realm of a relationship: all while men's role as the breadwinner and provider is undermined? All while feminists stridently protest for equal pay? So equal pay in the workplace, but not equal obligation to pay for expenses? We've really progressed, huh?

The feminist wants equality, but only when it benefits them. Otherwise they want to keep their gender-specific privileges to opt out of the responsibility that comes with having said equality.

And of course this results in the dumbest **** you've ever seen. Check the responses to any video in which a chick unloads punches on a guy. Chivalry would say he shouldn't hit a woman, right? But go figure as soon as he one-hit KO's her, white knights will be riding to her rescue in the comments, ready to defend her honor and uphold this corrupted idea of chivalry. Who do you think taught them that? Did they figure it out on their own? If you take a little boy and sit him on the playground, and a girl comes up and starts hitting him, what do you think his natural response is going to be? To hit back.

It's a learned behavior. The parent or teacher is the person admonishing the boy, telling him to not hit girls. And whether you think it's right or wrong, my point is that it's a learned behavior. In a world of "equality" if you hit someone, you should be prepared to get hit back - whether you have a penis, vagina, or otherwise. But in a world of Feminism, this is not the case.

Previously the feminist and women's rights movement were synonymous and petitioned for exactly that: women's rights and equality. But take a look at the outcome of the Equal Rights Amendment and how women killed it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis...ghts_Amendment

Schlafly became an outspoken opponent of the Equal Rights Amendment during the 1970s as the organizer of the "STOP ERA" campaign. STOP is an initialism for "Stop Taking Our Privileges." Schlafly argued that the ERA would take away gender specific privileges currently enjoyed by women, including "dependent wife" benefits under Social Security and the exemption from Selective Service registration

It marked the beginning of a massive paradigm shift in and the divergence between Feminism and the Women's Rights movement. Women's Rights proponents (essentially 1st wave Feminists) understood that equality meant taking on equal responsibility and boy did they put the brakes on that one because they wanted to maintain their privileges. And people wonder why I can't help at laugh at feminists who now tell me to "check my privilege!" ?

You do know that Men's Studies looks at this issue, right? It is the (friendly) masculine studies counterpart to feminist studies.

Lol, better make sure those departments get equal funding, amirite?

If Feminism isn't the answer, then neither is Masculism. And I've argued this before to MRA groups and gotten quite the enraged responses from it. If you want equality, then you're going to have to accept equality. I know that sounds redundant, but I don't think many people understand the meaning of the statement.

Equal rights. Equal responsibilities. Right now everyone wants the first one with as few of the second as possible.

The day people can figure this out and balance it is the day we'll be one step closer to ending the gender war.

Overall I think MGTOW is a good idea in general after reading the misc for a while. I would have taken a lot of its precepts (as I understand it) for granted. You don't need the opposite sex to drive your life. That's how I live anyways, but I wasn't spurned by rejection or disappointment. I like men, but they don't define my life in any significant way.

My adherence to "you don't need the opposite sex to drive your life" has such a stigma attached to it that they developed an internet meme to describe it FFS. There have been multi-million dollar movies made about it.

I wasn't spurned by rejection or disappointment.

Because you are female.

I like men, but they don't define my life in any significant way.

And I like women, and I do not allow them to define my life in any significant way - however since society STRONGLY thinks I should, the stigma that comes with this life choice is immense. It's a stigma you don't have to deal with as a female in the West. Meanwhile the double standard continues - and as much as I've mentioned it, I don't bemoan it regularly. Crying about it doesn't change anything. However if I'm to continue to live, I have to work around it, so I do.

____________

tl;dr for glorious winged *******s:

1. Feminism and Women's Rights used to be similar. Now not so much.

2. Women killed the Equal Rights Amendment because they wanted to maintain gender-specific female privileges. Meanwhile they want to convince you that Men still have privilege.

3. Neither Feminists or MRAs (especially Feminists) want actual "Equality." They just want all the rights with none of the responsibilities.

4. As I've stated in the FA thread before, the entire premise of an FA female is about as realistic as fairy dust and unicorns.

[weightsbrah]

Read some of those pioneering 1960s feminsits. It's all about the destruction of the nuclear family and the so-called "Patriarch".

[alial30]

First wave was. Third wave, not so much. Even some of the founders of first wave feminism have stated that it has long since abandoned any idea of equality and since progressed to seeking dominance.

That dominance is in defining what it means to be masculine by levying mass shame on Men for traditionally masculine activities.




It would be difficult to summarize without touching on a bunch of how / why tangents, but the tl;dr is:

Early to mid 1900's Women's Rights -> 1960's Feminism -> Gender biased legislation and courts -> Destruction of the family -> Massive number of single parent (matriarchal) households

= Generation of boys raised by women

The result of which is the current crop of women who bemoan ad nauseam the boys who "never grow up." How did you expect a boy to answer the male condition when you have removed all male role models from his life and shame every bit of masculine behavior he ever engaged in?




They are: by trying to convince Men that "privileges" still exist, and shaming behavior that is not beneficial to women. At best it's misinformation. At worst it's active subversion. My dead great-grandfather might have enjoyed male "privilege" in leading a family and getting a job. I enjoy a 55%+ divorce rate and the worst job market since the great depression. The same double standard applies over and over again, no matter the venue.

It's the same line of reasoning that a feminist uses when convincing men that men should still abide by chivalrous activity like paying for dates, vacations, and all sorts of other expenses in the realm of a relationship: all while men's role as the breadwinner and provider is undermined? All while feminists stridently protest for equal pay? So equal pay in the workplace, but not equal obligation to pay for expenses? We've really progressed, huh?

The feminist wants equality, but only when it benefits them. Otherwise they want to keep their gender-specific privileges to opt out of the responsibility that comes with having said equality.

And of course this results in the dumbest **** you've ever seen. Check the responses to any video in which a chick unloads punches on a guy. Chivalry would say he shouldn't hit a woman, right? But go figure as soon as he one-hit KO's her, white knights will be riding to her rescue in the comments, ready to defend her honor and uphold this corrupted idea of chivalry. Who do you think taught them that? Did they figure it out on their own? If you take a little boy and sit him on the playground, and a girl comes up and starts hitting him, what do you think his natural response is going to be? To hit back.

It's a learned behavior. The parent or teacher is the person admonishing the boy, telling him to not hit girls. And whether you think it's right or wrong, my point is that it's a learned behavior. In a world of "equality" if you hit someone, you should be prepared to get hit back - whether you have a penis, vagina, or otherwise. But in a world of Feminism, this is not the case.

Previously the feminist and women's rights movement were synonymous and petitioned for exactly that: women's rights and equality. But take a look at the outcome of the Equal Rights Amendment and how women killed it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis...ghts_Amendment



It marked the beginning of a massive paradigm shift in and the divergence between Feminism and the Women's Rights movement. Women's Rights proponents (essentially 1st wave Feminists) understood that equality meant taking on equal responsibility and boy did they put the brakes on that one because they wanted to maintain their privileges. And people wonder why I can't help at laugh at feminists who now tell me to "check my privilege!" ?




Lol, better make sure those departments get equal funding, amirite?

If Feminism isn't the answer, then neither is Masculism. And I've argued this before to MRA groups and gotten quite the enraged responses from it. If you want equality, then you're going to have to accept equality. I know that sounds redundant, but I don't think many people understand the meaning of the statement.

Equal rights. Equal responsibilities. Right now everyone wants the first one with as few of the second as possible.

The day people can figure this out and balance it is the day we'll be one step closer to ending the gender war.




My adherence to "you don't need the opposite sex to drive your life" has such a stigma attached to it that they developed an internet meme to describe it FFS. There have been multi-million dollar movies made about it.



Because you are female.



And I like women, and I do not allow them to define my life in any significant way - however since society STRONGLY thinks I should, the stigma that comes with this life choice is immense. It's a stigma you don't have to deal with as a female in the West. Meanwhile the double standard continues - and as much as I've mentioned it, I don't bemoan it regularly. Crying about it doesn't change anything. However if I'm to continue to live, I have to work around it, so I do.

____________

tl;dr for glorious winged *******s:

1. Feminism and Women's Rights used to be similar. Now not so much.

2. Women killed the Equal Rights Amendment because they wanted to maintain gender-specific female privileges. Meanwhile they want to convince you that Men still have privilege.

3. Neither Feminists or MRAs (especially Feminists) want actual "Equality." They just want all the rights with none of the responsibilities.

4. As I've stated in the FA thread before, the entire premise of an FA female is about as realistic as fairy dust and unicorns.

Good stuff man. I read all of your posts intently.

[Rufflez]

innn

[Bawniy]

Ok, feminism in its current incarnation is hilarious but...


MGTOW are losers who can't capitalize on all the no strings attached pussy available these days


carry on

Been reading the forums and a lot of the guys are still seeking out sex but are avoiding long term relationships, probably the best approach a man should have in this day and age.

[ICrapBig]

If these MGTOW are "self-respecting" then they're completely free to keep "banging whores [and] bitches" while perpetuating the problem that led them to be alone and self-pitying in the first place. Ain't nobody got time for that hypocritical kind of "self-respect."

Thats the point you missed though. If you were not so self centred as is typical of modern women these days you would have taken the time to see where they seem to be coming from. They are not self pitying, they are indifferent.

They are ignoring women like you for everything but sex. You are simply not worth being with as far as they are concerned. They are not fighting feminism, they are indifferent to the whole thing and simply dont care. Dont want, need or care about your approval.

Its actually quite funny when you think about it. Society will collapse when men are not there to prop up and pay for your equality while we protect the borders, dig the ditches and invent the cure for your impending fertility treatments. Which means that their form of protest is to leave you with your cats while they become outright hedonists

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[alial30]

Been reading the forums and a lot of the guys are still seeking out sex but are avoiding long term relationships, probably the best approach a man should have in this day and age.

Couldn't agree more.

[NickDaQuik]

good video if you have the attention span,

most mgtow's know this chit but idk if the majority of them see how all of this is related and the end results

[OmniaVanitas]

Lol at their response to this thread.

At first the forum sounded reasonably constructive but the bitter and passive aggressive responses are pathetic.

To the "MGTOW" forum; if you spent just 5 minutes on the Misc., you would realize that there is an equal balance (debatable) of WKs and BKs (or as you call them "red pillers")...the arguments between the two are perpetual. The difference here is, this forum is far more two sided and provides a more well rounded approach rather than emphasizing something to the point of being spiteful and vindictive.

[drstrangepimp]

Tell you what man. If she takes me to the cleaners I'll be sure to come back here and concede to you bros that I was completely wrong and y'all can relish in your victory. I'm sure a lot of you would love to rub it in my face.

And you know what will happen?

Some 20 year olds will call you bitter and tell you all about how great their gf is.

And you're like "dude...the ring. It has powers.". "Ah screw off gramps, i know everything".

I don't revel in the misfortunes of others and wish you luck.

My victory is she can't take ME to the cleaners no matter what happens.

[drstrangepimp]

Been reading the forums and a lot of the guys are still seeking out sex but are avoiding long term relationships, probably the best approach a man should have in this day and age.

Yes, avoiding commitment and legal entanglements in particular is all it amounts to.

Then we deal with the question..."ok now what? How do I have a fulfilling life without depending on females for validation?".

There is no "movement", this is not men's rights movement and we are not activists though we are sympathetic to men's rights.

And this is not about incels either, any man can get laid with an escort at least.

There is no real advantage to paying or not paying, you are paying one way or the other - that is the main point to understand, you will pay sooner or later.

Often it is better to pay a higher cost upfront, the most expensive things in the world are free.

All that sex your gf is giving you now, she will take it out of your hide later.

Any time you are having sex with a female or getting affection from a female, the meter is running and she is keeping score.

Game means trick them into giving you free samples, then don't buy the product.

[TheFourthPooper]

Lol at their response to this thread.

At first the forum sounded reasonably constructive but the bitter and passive aggressive responses are pathetic.

To the "MGTOW" forum; if you spent just 5 minutes on the Misc., you would realize that there is an equal balance (debatable) of WKs and BKs (or as you call them "red pillers")...the arguments between the two are perpetual. The difference here is, this forum is far more two sided and provides a more well rounded approach rather than emphasizing something to the point of being spiteful and vindictive.

They are OBVIOUSLY bitter (ok well a lot of them at least). Now, maybe they have good reason to be bitter. If I lost my house, my kids, and became impoverished b/c of divorce I would be bitter too. They are guys who probably went from an overly optimistic view of society to an overly pessimistic one. Although unlike feminists a lot of them at least have a reason to complain, but that does not change the fact that dwelling on the topic is not healthy.

[Engineer_Guy]

So basically it's a bunch of old guys with failing or failed marriages telling young guys not to get married because it didn't work out for them.

[syth1230]

They are OBVIOUSLY bitter (ok well a lot of them at least). Now, maybe they have good reason to be bitter. If I lost my house, my kids, and became impoverished b/c of divorce I would be bitter too. They are guys who probably went from an overly optimistic view of society to an overly pessimistic one. Although unlike feminists a lot of them at least have a reason to complain, but that does not change the fact that dwelling on the topic is not healthy.

i dont think you know what bitter means. Theyve experienced first hand what can happen in todays society and so choose to be indifferent. You can endlessly parrot 'oh he just picked the wrong girl, hes insecure etc.' but divorce rates are not going down anytime soon. Child support payments arent going down anytime. The 'good' girls (whatever that means) are becoming even more scarce (perhaps they never existed in the first place?).

If you decide to not undergo an interaction which has more costs than benefits then youre bitter?