Straight up RANT about cardio vs. weights false dichotomy

[shesprints]

First of all, shoutout to LinzCapp, who posted this on your blog. I admire your work ethic, even if I disagree with the article you posted.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/predator-conditioning

I can't stand articles like this.

First, they're comparing low-level cardio with high-level conditioning.

I promise you, runners who are serious about their sport perform 'conditioning' on a level that would rip the guts out of absolutely anyone. (Anyone who could even perform the workout, that is. Which you can't if you have no aerobic capacity.)

They do this in addition to longer, slower runs that build aerobic conditioning and strengthen tendons and ligaments in order to sustain speedwork.

Oh, and some of us runners? We can do BOTH. I regularly do battleropes, Jacob's Ladder, jumprope, etc., along with longer slower runs and sprints.

Anyway, I'm really pissed off today for some reason, so I'm just going to tackle this moronic article point by point.


Conditioning prepares you for battle. Cardio makes you really good at running slowly away.

Yep. You're definitely going to battle, there, guy. You're macho! GR! Strong! Never mind that the actual military spends a great deal of time on long endurance sessions done at a slower pace. Manly! That 300 movie with the abs! RAWR! Isn't there some sequel coming out with boats? Better start talking about ways to making swimming more manly.

• Conditioning fires up the metabolism. Cardio extinguishing it over time.

Yeah, all cardio. Any cardio. 10 minutes of cardio will kill your gains. Don't even walk! Just sit on your couch. Don't even walk to the gym. Get one of those scooters to deposit you in the squat rack. But wait... how is jump rope not cardio? Oh, because the magic of manliness means it is something else. Even though 'conditioning' is actually just the intense end of, um, cardio.

• Conditioning makes a man look good naked. Cardio makes a man look good in lavender skinny jeans and not much else.

I wouldn't mind seeing a man in lavender skinny jeans and not much else. Moving on...

• Conditioning builds legs of steel. Cardio builds legs of an underfed seabird.

Yeah, all these guys have totally underbuilt legs, bro.



• Conditioning makes you lean and hard. Cardio makes you small and soft.

Maybe only doing long slow cardio and never lifting weights or eating adequate food can do this, but who does that who's reading T-Nation?

• Conditioning gives you an upper body made of stone. Cardio gives you an upper body made of twigs and Jell-O.

To be fair, this imagery is sort of funny. It's true that high-performance distance runners sometimes choose to cut down upper body muscle purposefully and can look twiggy, but that's their choice. If you aren't specifically training for a marathon and want to run it in 2:30 or so, there's no need to purposefully starve off your upper body.

• Conditioning makes you better at any physical activity. Cardio makes you good at cardio.

Later on, the article says you specifically want to avoid adaptation with these exercises, i.e. you want to avoid getting better at them. I don't know about you, but it sounds like "conditioning" doesn't make you better at ANY physical activity. That's not my idea of good training. I'd rather actually improve at something. Could be just me, though.

• Conditioning is sex. Cardio is cuddling and a chick-flick.

Have you ever seen a race? Really, have you ever caught a marathon on TV or the track events in the Olympics?

Also, fun fact: some runners talk about how great sex the night before a race is for stress levels and performance. Cool, right?

• Conditioning is testosterone. Cardio is cortisol and estrogen.

"OK, let's just go for overt misogyny now." (Cardio does not, in any way, increase estrogen levels, though excessive exercise can lower them. Yes, even excessive 'conditioning,' i.e. anything done at high intensity. The word 'estrogen' here is simply standing in for 'femaleness.')

• Conditioning is pecs. Cardio is man-boobs.

Jump rope: great for the pecs. It's not like you can lift or anything. Nope. It's all the conditioning.

• Conditioning is Westside Barbell. Cardio is Planet Fitness.

Westside Barbell? AKA primarily powerlifting?

• Conditioning relieves anxiety, boosts all-day energy and fires up brain function. Cardio increases anxiety and cortisol. (Runners are only happy when they run. The rest of the time they're *******s. True story.).

Nope, I'm an ******* while I run, too. :P

But seriously, cardio of moderate intensity has been proven many times to improve mood and even alleviate depression (as it does for me). Actually, in my experience, doing some moderate cardio makes me less depressed than going all-out/too hard too often, which burns me out, overtrains me, and makes me very grumpy.

• Conditioning is fun. Cardio is fun when it's over.

If you suck at cardio it's not fun. But if you have a decent set of lungs and actual good conditioning, it can be. In addition, if your conditioning workout is fun, it's probably not intense enough... which... OMG... means you aren't really MANLY!

Quick, what is something more manly than battle ropes and jump rope? Let's talk next about how powerlifters are really the only legit athletes out there. Except bodybuilders. Or something. Wait, is this supposed to be about how we look or how manly we are in some other way? Is it about being hardcore or looking good? Cannot seem to decide. The tone of this article in general would seem to imply that actually performing better at anything is secondary to looking good in non-skinny jeans.

But caring too much about looks isn't manly.

But...

Oh whatever let's go back to manliess metaphors.

• Conditioning is for hunters. Cardio is for Bambi's mom.
• In short, conditioning is for predators. Cardio is for prey.

GR RAWR! CARDIO BAD WEIGHTS GOOD

critical thought is for wimminz

lol womenlogic not even once wut logic

[Artemis00]

I agree with you. That article was absolutely ridiculous. It could have been done well if it was doing a comparison between a dedicated athlete and one that isn't. Attacking runners is absolutely ridiculous.

The predator stuff is laughable. C'mon...power lifting and battle ropes don't make you into a predator. I know some really incredible power lifters and they wouldn't do too well in the ring with some amateur fighters I know (ones that have never done even one dead lift...imagine the horror. lol).


I get annoyed as well with that mentality. I would never in a million years think of comparing you with the type that I would categorize as a "Cardio Bunny" just because you both may use a treadmill. It would be as offensive to you as it is to me when someone compares what I do to a woman taking a cardio kickboxing class.

[Charuto222]

You must be new to tnation. Chris didn't mean to be taken 100% literally on his "conditioning vs cardio" points, he was just talking ****, mostly tongue in cheek. Every author over there does this in pretty much all of their articles.

[shesprints]

You must be new to tnation. Chris didn't mean to be taken 100% literally on his "conditioning vs cardio" points, he was just talking ****, mostly tongue in cheek. Every author over there does this in pretty much all of their articles.

Amazing how you can sometimes mock something tongue in cheek. I never would have thought of that.

[meimonsta]

I...thought "cardio" and "conditioning" were interchangeable until just now?

[shesprints]

I...thought "cardio" and "conditioning" were interchangeable until just now?

'Conditioning' seems to be a word with many deeply unspecific meanings. For instance, in the bodybuilding world, 'coming in with good conditioning' to a show just seems to mean you're freakin' shredded. For others, 'conditioning' seems to be the word they use so they can do something that gets their heartrate up without admitting to 'doing cardio,' as that is apparently for sissies.

'Cardio' is fairly unspecific, too, come to think of it...

[Charuto222]

Amazing how you can sometimes mock something tongue in cheek. I never would have thought of that.

*sigh* What is it with you kids these days and this hell-bent determination to make an internet confrontation out of everything?



Whatever, let's re-read some of this.

• Conditioning is sex. Cardio is cuddling and a chick-flick.

Have you ever seen a race? Really, have you ever caught a marathon on TV or the track events in the Olympics?

Also, fun fact: some runners talk about how great sex the night before a race is for stress levels and performance. Cool, right?

• Conditioning is testosterone. Cardio is cortisol and estrogen.

"OK, let's just go for overt misogyny now." (Cardio does not, in any way, increase estrogen levels, though excessive exercise can lower them. Yes, even excessive 'conditioning,' i.e. anything done at high intensity. The word 'estrogen' here is simply standing in for 'femaleness.')

• Conditioning is pecs. Cardio is man-boobs.

Jump rope: great for the pecs. It's not like you can lift or anything. Nope. It's all the conditioning.

The author's points = silly jokes that appear to serve no purpose other than to make the choir of meat-heads to which Chris is preaching laugh. Your counterpoints = counterpoints meant for literal arguments. Chris's points are so ridiculous I can't envision even the meat-head choir taking them seriously. He did that on purpose, like pretty much every other tnation author.

[shesprints]

I like jokes better when they are funny because they are true, not when they are funny because they are stupid. Something can be funny and serious all mixed together.

Taste in humor varies. My taste in humor tends toward the sophisticated. Your taste obviously doesn't include my humor. 'Scool.

What is it called when a bro comes in and White Knights on behalf of other bros? Is it still White Knighting?

[Ascendedlife]

I like jokes better when they are funny because they are true, not when they are funny because they are stupid. Something can be funny and serious all mixed together.

Taste in humor varies. My taste in humor tends toward the sophisticated. Your taste obviously doesn't include my humor. 'Scool.

What is it called when a bro comes in and White Knights on behalf of other bros? Is it still White Knighting?

BROKNIGHT!

For the unaware, with regard to the hunting comment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

But seriously, I agree with my Jiu Jitsu sister, there isnt really a better version of physical training, just the training that is focused on a particular activity. Its a, "To each his own", "Apples and Oranges" kind of thing. The human body is pretty fascinating in how it will accommodate its physical capabilities based on how you focus your training.

I know crossfit gets joked about on BB.com but I love the ideology behind it. Being a well rounded athlete is very appealing to me.

If I want to go rock climbing or canoeing? no problem
If I want to run a 10k or even try out a triathalon? sounds fun
Friends want to play a game of basketball? sweet
Want to move something heavy? I got you
Want to roll with the cocky white belt? humble time

Whats not to like?

[Artemis00]

Want to roll with the cocky white belt? humble time

HAHA...not just humble time but fun times


They don't let me do that anymore...they leave class and don't come back

[Ascendedlife]

HAHA...not just humble time but fun times


They don't let me do that anymore...they leave class and don't come back

Ha, you sound like my friend who helps me teach my campus club. I like to think of us as good cop, bad cop.

Before he rolls with newbies I tell him to go easy because I want them to come back. When I roll with them I flow roll with them, let them go through the motions, Ill give them pressure, put them in submissions but let it go and tell them what they did wrong.

That is unless they're arrogant, in which case they get bad cop bad cop and Im surprised if they come back.

[Charuto222]

1) I like jokes better when they are funny because they are true, not when they are funny because they are stupid. Something can be funny and serious all mixed together.

2) Your taste obviously doesn't include my humor. 'Scool.

3) What is it called when a bro comes in and White Knights on behalf of other bros?

1) As do I for the most part, and yes of course funny and serious can coexist.

2) Lolwut? My taste may or may not include your humor. If it doesn't then...uhm....it doesn't. That happens between people all the time and I don't think anyone else considers it to be an issue so what point are you trying to make here exactly?

3) Pointing out that someone was joking around = white knighting? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for now by assuming that was just a silly joke and you are smart enough to know better than to mean that as an actual retort. Oh wait, that doesn't mean I'm white knighting you does it?

[oldskooler]

What is it called when a bro comes in and White Knights on behalf of other bros? Is it still White Knighting?

Rainbow knighting?

I think he was just trying to say to not take the articles author serious and chill out though.

[Artemis00]

Ha, you sound like my friend who helps me teach my campus club. I like to think of us as good cop, bad cop.

Before he rolls with newbies I tell him to go easy because I want them to come back. When I roll with them I flow roll with them, let them go through the motions, Ill give them pressure, put them in submissions but let it go and tell them what they did wrong.

That is unless they're arrogant, in which case they get bad cop bad cop and Im surprised if they come back.

That is so funny. Me and my friend Nici have the same setup. She is really good at keeping things light, flowing movement, and not muscling. But she likes to have fun grappling and doesn't like to get hurt. If she finds a newb is being too aggressive or spastic, that is when she hopes I get to work with them. We have two in class that have been that way recently. One is a really strong and a cop (so has some defensive tactics training), but hasn't learned yet that you need to work the moves not just fight...I've worked with her twice. The first time she was being too aggressive so I decided not to waste too much energy (first round of the class) so I gassed her out in my guard. Always fun to see them struggle so hard and get no where...but at least she is learning and trying to understand. The other girl...well she is a teenager and thinks she is a badazz. They won't let me work with her yet. That is probably a really good idea, especially after how I saw her treat her little brother. I have a bit of a reputation . Funny cause they don't expect it...I'm the smallest person in class...but I'm one of the strongest women, I'm fast, I catch on pretty quickly and my legs are really flexible. Not to mention I don't have that much of a problem getting hurt...already had a busted nose and was planning on grappling thru it until the damn thing started to bleed

[Artemis00]

BTW to the some of the other posters. The article was kind of just fuel for the fire. Although the article may have been tongue and cheek, the sentiments contained unfortunately are very prevalent in the minds of some people on this forum. There are plenty of users on the forum that have a superiority complex that feel lifting heavy weights is the most important thing and that if that isn't your primary goal, than you aren't as dedicated as they are. In fact they don't even bother to understand what your goals are (or even ask)...they just throw out recommendations without having even the slightest clue whether their advice even pertains to your goal...cause of course...they know better and there opinion is the only one that is right and your goal isn't relevant. You wouldn't believe how many people on this site have tried to give me advice regarding what weight lifting I should do to improve my grappling when not one of them has ever grappled (or even wrestled), nor do they even know that a person's style of grappling dictates what strength training exercises are most effective. I could write a book about some of the ridiculous comments I have received.

[Charuto222]

Ha, you sound like my friend who helps me teach my campus club. I like to think of us as good cop, bad cop.

Before he rolls with newbies I tell him to go easy because I want them to come back. When I roll with them I flow roll with them, let them go through the motions, Ill give them pressure, put them in submissions but let it go and tell them what they did wrong.

That is unless they're arrogant, in which case they get bad cop bad cop and Im surprised if they come back.

Damn, they have it easy at your gym.

When I was in Korea the bjj instructor out there threw us straight into rolling at day 1 no matter who you were and we had to roll with him at the end after we were already exhausted, he was a Ricardo Almeida black belt so I wouldn't have been able to do anything against him even if I were fresh but it was 100x worse since I had already spent 2 hours getting my ass handed to me by all of his students. I swear there had to have been upwards of 100 different times that day where I was put into a position where someone could've killed me if they wanted. I remember attaining mount on one of his 3 stripe white belts and man I wanted to throw my arms up in the air and do a victory dance. Didn't even make him tap and I still felt like I had won the olympics compared to the rest of the evening lmao.

[Ascendedlife]

Damn, they have it easy at your gym.

When I was in Korea the bjj instructor out there threw us straight into rolling at day 1 no matter who you were and we had to roll with him at the end after we were already exhausted, he was a Ricardo Almeida black belt so I wouldn't have been able to do anything against him even if I were fresh but it was 100x worse since I had already spent 2 hours getting my ass handed to me by all of his students. I swear there had to have been upwards of 100 different times that day where I was put into a position where someone could've killed me if they wanted. I remember attaining mount on one of his 3 stripe white belts and man I wanted to throw my arms up in the air and do a victory dance. Didn't even make him tap and I still felt like I had won the olympics compared to the rest of the evening lmao.

I just teach a University club. The university itself only have around 12-15k students, and it VERY difficult to get people to not just show up but to stay. At a gym where they can afford to filter out the weak or those not ready psychologically I get that because people want to be there. For us as a club people are usually just wanting to explore something new. Ive had too many people quit after one class so i try to ease them in now.

[thehobbes]

Yeah, all cardio. Any cardio. 10 minutes of cardio will kill your gains. Don't even walk! Just sit on your couch. Don't even walk to the gym. Get one of those scooters to deposit you in the squat rack. But wait... how is jump rope not cardio? Oh, because the magic of manliness means it is something else. Even though 'conditioning' is actually just the intense end of, um, cardio.

OP this is brilliant, will there be a special holder on the scooter for my beverage and sammich too?

Some of those people on scooters in retail stores are getting quite dangerous lately, just backing that thing up with reckless abandon. Those scooters have some power.

[shesprints]

BTW to the some of the other posters. The article was kind of just fuel for the fire. Although the article may have been tongue and cheek, the sentiments contained unfortunately are very prevalent in the minds of some people on this forum. There are plenty of users on the forum that have a superiority complex that feel lifting heavy weights is the most important thing and that if that isn't your primary goal, than you aren't as dedicated as they are. In fact they don't even bother to understand what your goals are (or even ask)...they just throw out recommendations without having even the slightest clue whether their advice even pertains to your goal...cause of course...they know better and there opinion is the only one that is right and your goal isn't relevant. You wouldn't believe how many people on this site have tried to give me advice regarding what weight lifting I should do to improve my grappling when not one of them has ever grappled (or even wrestled), nor do they even know that a person's style of grappling dictates what strength training exercises are most effective. I could write a book about some of the ridiculous comments I have received.

Not just this forum! (And actually I find this forum to be pretty darn openminded). But yeah, you said exactly what I would have.

As for 'rainbow knight' I was gonna go there but it seemed homophobic so I didn't.

@hobbes, I'm so glad I could inspire you.

[jjackson556]

If I went on a runner's forum and try to get them to bodybuild I think i'd encounter the same kind of resistance..just saying.

[Partyrocking]

If I went on a runner's forum and try to get them to bodybuild I think i'd encounter the same kind of resistance..just saying.

So you bumped up an old thread to make a completely irrelevant post.

Congratulations.

[lazyaj]

Have to say, I'm glad this thread got bumped. Shesprints, you are awesome! I loved your rant. Thank you!!