BCAA for fasted training in bulking Vs Cutting

[dylanbohn95]

Im bulking right now and as my schedule currently is i train fasted. I don't Use BCAAs because i feel with a surplus of calories, it isn't necessary. However i feel that when I start cutting it might be necessary to take BCAAs to keep muscle loss to a minimum. Is there anyone who seconds this opinion or has had any negative experience from training fasted without BCAAs vs with them on a cutting regimen?

[InItForFitness]

If you're consuming >70g protein/daily you're going to meeting BCAA requirements through whole food sources so they are not necessary.
Some of the more experienced members of this forum though will suggest them for fasted training in the morning, even though they are unnecessary I believe they can be beneficial.
I use them for fasted training just because I enjoy them.

It's one of those situations where you don't have anything to lose by playing it safe and using them.
If you're not recieving any benefits from them, so be it, and if you do recieve favorable results in regards to body composition (however minimalistic it may be) than that's just icing on the cake.

[dylanbohn95]

Im more worried in particular that a cutting diet might put me at more risk of losing muscle without BCAAs than with them, the thing is i don't have deep pockets.

[miacanesfan25]

Im more worried in particular that a cutting diet might put me at more risk of losing muscle without BCAAs than with them, the thing is i don't have deep pockets.

You're overthinking it. If you're hitting your macro targets you'll be fine. You can find BCAA's pretty cheap I believe. You're going to lose some muscle more than likely when cutting. It's pretty much unavoidable. just take it slow and minimize the losses.

[WonderPug]

It's functionally impossible to be consuming too little BCAA's if you're consuming a ration diet with at least 0.6 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

[brendbro]

It's one of those situations where you don't have anything to lose by playing it safe and using them.

except for money.

To reiterate on puggy's comment, if you are currently consuming an adequate amount of protein (which I'm taking you are) then that would render BCAA supplementation useless.

Anecdotally, I have noticed absolutely no difference when supplementing with BCAA's. And as to the best of my knowledge there is little to no research substantiating the claim that they aid in preventing muscle dystrophy (independent of adequate protein intake) when dieting.

[dylanbohn95]

Thanks for the input bros. I'll think about wether or not to get BCAAs for my cut, I mean they can't hurt.

[WonderPug]

I'll think about wether or not to get BCAAs for my cut, I mean they can't hurt.

Basically, that could be said for most supplements, as they will usually not cause (much) harm if taken in small doses, but, of course, they'll do no good either.

If you don't care about wasting money and you are hoping for a placebo effect, then that's clearly your prerogative.

[TomBremner]

just eat more ****ing protein. BCAA's are found in high amounts in meat and dairy

[BigAJohnson]

had any negative experience from training fasted without BCAAs vs with them on a cutting regimen?

I had a terrible experience training fasted. If you are refering to Intermittent Fasting, I trained fasted every day for 3 months prepping for my first show over the summer following a lean gains style of dieting. I would train either completely fasted or with a little bit of BCAAs, and no matter how much weight I lost, I continued to look flat and feel weak. Although IF is great for overall fat loss, it is terrible for muscle retention. Even if you are bulking while fasting, you are only getting one solid influx of protein a day. I'm not sure if your familiar with any of Dr. Layne Norton's research on protein synthesis, but he showed that there is something called an anabolic cap that is reached every meal. So although you are hitting the same macros as someone eating 5 times a day, they are filling their anabolic cap and keeping protein synthesis levels spiked throughout the day, whereas you're just spiking it enourmously once and then letting it fall for the rest of the day and night. I did awful at my competition, and afterwards, I started following Layne Norton's approach of 5 meals a day, spreading out my protein evenly throughout the meals (maybe a little extra pre and post workout) and putting most of my carbs pre and post workout. I also take 5 grams of BCAAs in between each meal to spike BCAA plasma levels (in order to keep up protein synthesis), and I legitimately look 1000x better than I did the day of my show right now, less than 3 months later. I also eat most of my fat in the morning and at night because they are slow absorbing so you don't want them interfering with the absorption of your quick protein and carbs pre and post workout. Sorry for the long rant, but I really hope it helps because I would not want anyone else to find out the hard way how ineffective intermittent fasting really is for bodybuilding like I did. Good luck!

-Alex J.

[Gxp23]

You do know what Protein is right?

[gymjunki3]

You do know what Protein is right?

yep its jizz.


damm another 5'5"

[Gxp23]

I had a terrible experience training fasted. If you are refering to Intermittent Fasting, I trained fasted every day for 3 months prepping for my first show over the summer following a lean gains style of dieting. I would train either completely fasted or with a little bit of BCAAs, and no matter how much weight I lost, I continued to look flat and feel weak. Although IF is great for overall fat loss, it is terrible for muscle retention. Even if you are bulking while fasting, you are only getting one solid influx of protein a day. I'm not sure if your familiar with any of Dr. Layne Norton's research on protein synthesis, but he showed that there is something called an anabolic cap that is reached every meal. So although you are hitting the same macros as someone eating 5 times a day, they are filling their anabolic cap and keeping protein synthesis levels spiked throughout the day, whereas you're just spiking it enourmously once and then letting it fall for the rest of the day and night. I did awful at my competition, and afterwards, I started following Layne Norton's approach of 5 meals a day, spreading out my protein evenly throughout the meals (maybe a little extra pre and post workout) and putting most of my carbs pre and post workout. I also take 5 grams of BCAAs in between each meal to spike BCAA plasma levels (in order to keep up protein synthesis), and I legitimately look 1000x better than I did the day of my show right now, less than 3 months later. I also eat most of my fat in the morning and at night because they are slow absorbing so you don't want them interfering with the absorption of your quick protein and carbs pre and post workout. Sorry for the long rant, but I really hope it helps because I would not want anyone else to find out the hard way how ineffective intermittent fasting really is for bodybuilding like I did. Good luck!

-Alex J.

lol

yep its jizz.


damm another 5'5"

lol, but its digestive state?!

[snorkelman]

I mean they can't hurt.

Depends. Mixing aminos with carbs may jack up your insulin, if you dose high.

Leucine is an insulin secretagogue (leucine is known to promote insulin secretion). See, Kalogeropoulou et al. Leucine, when ingested with glucose, synergistically stimulates insulin secretion and lowers blood glucose. Metabolism Clinical and Experimental 57 (2008) 1747–1752.

[dylanbohn95]

I had a terrible experience training fasted. If you are refering to Intermittent Fasting, I trained fasted every day for 3 months prepping for my first show over the summer following a lean gains style of dieting. I would train either completely fasted or with a little bit of BCAAs, and no matter how much weight I lost, I continued to look flat and feel weak. Although IF is great for overall fat loss, it is terrible for muscle retention. Even if you are bulking while fasting, you are only getting one solid influx of protein a day. I'm not sure if your familiar with any of Dr. Layne Norton's research on protein synthesis, but he showed that there is something called an anabolic cap that is reached every meal. So although you are hitting the same macros as someone eating 5 times a day, they are filling their anabolic cap and keeping protein synthesis levels spiked throughout the day, whereas you're just spiking it enourmously once and then letting it fall for the rest of the day and night. I did awful at my competition, and afterwards, I started following Layne Norton's approach of 5 meals a day, spreading out my protein evenly throughout the meals (maybe a little extra pre and post workout) and putting most of my carbs pre and post workout. I also take 5 grams of BCAAs in between each meal to spike BCAA plasma levels (in order to keep up protein synthesis), and I legitimately look 1000x better than I did the day of my show right now, less than 3 months later. I also eat most of my fat in the morning and at night because they are slow absorbing so you don't want them interfering with the absorption of your quick protein and carbs pre and post workout. Sorry for the long rant, but I really hope it helps because I would not want anyone else to find out the hard way how ineffective intermittent fasting really is for bodybuilding like I did. Good luck!

-Alex J.

does anyone else here feel that intermittent fasting is terrible for bodybuilding? I mean yea it's not for everyone but no, it's not going to rip muscle off your body. Some people just don't respond well to fasted training. Another thing, protein doesn't work like sugar, spiking some sort of protein insulin level, it's either there to repair the muscle or not. The only case where it gets absorbed better or faster I should say, is after a training session.

[ErikTheElectric]

Im more worried in particular that a cutting diet might put me at more risk of losing muscle without BCAAs than with them, the thing is i don't have deep pockets.

the supplement companies just love guys like you.

[Gxp23]

does anyone else here feel that intermittent fasting is terrible for bodybuilding? I mean yea it's not for everyone but no, it's not going to rip muscle off your body. Some people just don't respond well to fasted training. Another thing, protein doesn't work like sugar, spiking some sort of protein insulin level, it's either there to repair the muscle or not. The only case where it gets absorbed better or faster I should say, is after a training session.

Well, generally, thats why only people who do respond to it well do it, its a lifestyle diet, not a special bodybuilding diet.

[Attaus]

I had a terrible experience training fasted. If you are refering to Intermittent Fasting, I trained fasted every day for 3 months prepping for my first show over the summer following a lean gains style of dieting. I would train either completely fasted or with a little bit of BCAAs, and no matter how much weight I lost, I continued to look flat and feel weak. Although IF is great for overall fat loss, it is terrible for muscle retention. Even if you are bulking while fasting, you are only getting one solid influx of protein a day. I'm not sure if your familiar with any of Dr. Layne Norton's research on protein synthesis, but he showed that there is something called an anabolic cap that is reached every meal. So although you are hitting the same macros as someone eating 5 times a day, they are filling their anabolic cap and keeping protein synthesis levels spiked throughout the day, whereas you're just spiking it enourmously once and then letting it fall for the rest of the day and night. I did awful at my competition, and afterwards, I started following Layne Norton's approach of 5 meals a day, spreading out my protein evenly throughout the meals (maybe a little extra pre and post workout) and putting most of my carbs pre and post workout. I also take 5 grams of BCAAs in between each meal to spike BCAA plasma levels (in order to keep up protein synthesis), and I legitimately look 1000x better than I did the day of my show right now, less than 3 months later. I also eat most of my fat in the morning and at night because they are slow absorbing so you don't want them interfering with the absorption of your quick protein and carbs pre and post workout. Sorry for the long rant, but I really hope it helps because I would not want anyone else to find out the hard way how ineffective intermittent fasting really is for bodybuilding like I did. Good luck!

-Alex J.

25g of BCAA's a day?

not sure if.. i dont even..


OP I somewhat follow IF and train fasted most days, so I take BCAAs. For the average person who consumes meals before working out, or throughout the day, it probably isnt necessary. But I fast for 12+ hrs then exercise rigorously, so its worth the $12 every two weeks I pay for BCAAs to be sure my body is ready.

[dylanbohn95]

Well, generally, thats why only people who do respond to it well do it, its a lifestyle diet, not a special bodybuilding diet.

I didn't say it was, I'm just saying you can make just as many gains following it than a 6 meal plan. I mean is there was such a thing as a special bodybuilding diet? I'm sure if there was everyone would be doing it and we wouldn't be having this conversation.