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  1. #91
    jshpark's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree more with what you said.. Though I've been on this forum for a while and have been through many programs/diet fads, it is only until recently, after years of really !@#$ing around, that I started really being consistent in the simple foundational rules while more so forgetting all the tons of variables that don't make much difference .. I'm still pretty weak, sadly, but I'm going to stay true to it and I'm excited for the future. Keep spreading the good word and I'll stay tabbed to your progress as well
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  2. #92
    PermaBulker willybrokeback's Avatar
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    Bill,

    Do you log all of your sets or just your working sets?
    ".......have you paid your dues Jack?"
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  3. #93
    Lifting & Cutting brucedelaney's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Bill,

    Do you log all of your sets or just your working sets?
    he denotes his Warm up sets with w/u and I think he does also add back-off sets as well
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  4. #94
    --Little Trooper-- Bo_Flecks's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I post the Post-workout meals to demonstrate that we don't have to rely on pills, powders, or potions, and that, in fact, regular food is always the better choice.
    Hey now... don't you go bad mouthing potions. I've just about got my eye of newt, and toe of frog, wool of bat, and tongue of dog potion ready to market for the Halloween season. 99% guaranteed to bring teh gainz or your money back (as long as you hit the anabolic window).

    And "simple" is the key to good nutrition; we always try to buy whatever is freshest on the day, and then build simple meals around a few main ingredients.
    I had a guy at work the other day ask me for the list of supplements I am taking right now. I think he was disappointed to find out how little I actually use and that I spent most of my answer time telling him how he should first work on straightening out his nutrition.
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  5. #95
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jshpark View Post
    I couldn't agree more with what you said.. Though I've been on this forum for a while and have been through many programs/diet fads, it is only until recently, after years of really !@#$ing around, that I started really being consistent in the simple foundational rules while more so forgetting all the tons of variables that don't make much difference .. I'm still pretty weak, sadly, but I'm going to stay true to it and I'm excited for the future. Keep spreading the good word and I'll stay tabbed to your progress as well
    Everybody starts somewhere. Most of us start out on the wrong path, due either to lack of knowledge or maybe even from receiving bad information. But if we're persistent and don't give up, eventually we will find the path.

    And this path is like any other that leads to a goal; the more steps we take, the better we learn how to walk.


    Providing we just have the stick-to-it-iveness to keep on walking.











    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Bill,

    Do you log all of your sets or just your working sets?
    The only activity I don't bother to journal is the 5 or so minutes on a stationary bike as an overall warmup, and 2-4 sets of light Clean and Presses that I do for a more-specific warmup at the start of every session.











    Originally Posted by brucedelaney View Post
    he denotes his Warm up sets with w/u and I think he does also add back-off sets as well
    ^^^^This.










    Originally Posted by Bo_Flecks View Post
    Hey now... don't you go bad mouthing potions. I've just about got my eye of newt, and toe of frog, wool of bat, and tongue of dog potion ready to market for the Halloween season. 99% guaranteed to bring teh gainz or your money back (as long as you hit the anabolic window).
    We laugh and joke about this stuff because we've since learned otherwise, but it's really pitiful how gullible people allow themselves to be in an effort to find some shortcut around hard work and discipline.

    And I 99% (no, make that 100%) guarantee that if you marketed something like ^^^^that, you'd be swamped with orders. Just use some big words and scientific terms in your ads, along with a list of study references (they don't have to refer to studies with any relevance at all to the supp; nobody will bother to copy/paste them into a browser and then see that they link to some obscure trial done back in 1953 on pregnant rodents), and you'll be a millionaire in no time.


    And I wish I were joking, but I'm not.





    I had a guy at work the other day ask me for the list of supplements I am taking right now. I think he was disappointed to find out how little I actually use and that I spent most of my answer time telling him how he should first work on straightening out his nutrition.
    But, as I'm sure you see every day, nobody wants to hear that. It's just too much trouble, too inconvenient, and too simple to think what's really necessary is to first look at and correct how much and of what they're already eating. Even the supplements that actually have value still won't do jack-piddly-squat if the trainee hasn't got his calories, macros, and micros lined-out first.


    Everybody wants to put the cart before the horse.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

    Ironwill Gym---updated pics:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388


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  6. #96
    🅾🅼🅴🅶🅰 🆆🅴🅰🅿🅾🅽 EjnarKolinkar's Avatar
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    A little belated, but that x12 on LP, noice.
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  7. #97
    Registered User storm1507's Avatar
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    If I had $1.00 for everytime a beginner asked me about supps at the Rec Center............ They sure don't like to hear "spend your money on quality food". When pressed I answer "If you have to buy something spend it on protein". I think ZERO have taken my advice.
    My current log

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=158720023&p=1173746753&posted=1#post1173746753

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  8. #98
    Folly Lifter. doughnutgut's Avatar
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    Great detailed insight from you and Steve there.

    Being a relatively stone cold noob. (phrase stolen)
    The knowing of not bumping into the o35 section or even the journal area for that matter and what direction I would have taken regarding the supplement path is not even worth thinking about.

    Media and the likes seem to have brushed under the carpet the actual REAL basic fundimental foundations so as to focus on making the fat cats even fatter.

    The amount of damage my paycheck would have taken if my eyes had not been opened is not even worth thinking about.

    Hope the trip was smooth Bill.

    Tis all.
    Ride it like you just stole it.
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  9. #99
    Working on Hoosier 2.0 HoosierHardGain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bo_Flecks View Post
    Hey now... don't you go bad mouthing potions. I've just about got my eye of newt, and toe of frog, wool of bat, and tongue of dog potion ready to market for the Halloween season. 99% guaranteed to bring teh gainz or your money back (as long as you hit the anabolic window).
    You forgot to mention beet root!
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  10. #100
    Just trying to make it. Kcabo's Avatar
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    Enjoy your posts in the exercise section.

    I'm checking in.
    The more I eat and the heavier I train - the better my 'genetics' get.

    455/365/555
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  11. #101
    Neckbeard -Lucifer's Avatar
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    Question

    Wow, is beetroot evil?
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  12. #102
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EjnarKolinkar View Post
    A little belated, but that x12 on LP, noice.
    Hey, thanks. It's always a bit of a surprise to be stuck for a couple of weeks at some certain point, and then all of a sudden, for no discernable reason, get a surge and jump ahead.


    Now, if I can just duplicate it next week!













    Originally Posted by storm1507 View Post
    If I had $1.00 for everytime a beginner asked me about supps at the Rec Center............ They sure don't like to hear "spend your money on quality food". When pressed I answer "If you have to buy something spend it on protein". I think ZERO have taken my advice.
    The supp industry has done a masterful marketing job. The only other entity that's done better is Apple.



    Who's going to believe that some red meat, a baked potato, and a salad is a better muscle builder than something advertised in the muscle mags with a pic of a jacked, screaming, Pro bodybuilder curling a 120 pound dumbbell in the ad?














    Originally Posted by doughnutgut View Post
    Great detailed insight from you and Steve there.
    There is a VAST amount of accumulated knowledge and experience to be found in the journals (and some good stuff occasionally posted in the open forums as well, albeit often buried in static), but for the majority of new posters on this site, the resource goes untapped. Proof of this is made apparent every day by the threads asking the same questions about the same lame supplements/nutrition 'plans'/overblown 'workouts'/myths/etc., all over this site.

    Other than you and the other relatively new journalers here, most of the forum noobs currently posting will, unfortunately, fall away soon, only to be replaced by another group of beginners who will fall for the smoke and mirrors of quick gains promises, and consequently they too will make no progress, become discouraged, and fall away. To be replaced.......... and so on.




    The amount of damage my paycheck would have taken if my eyes had not been opened is not even worth thinking about.
    Count me among the suckers. I blew a pile of money over the years on what I eventually came to realize was little more than a pipe dream.


    Live and learn.


    And discover Alan Aragon's Research Review. Best $10/month. Ever.
    http://alanaragon.com



    Hope the trip was smooth Bill.
    Thanks, Leigh; it was.











    Originally Posted by HoosierHardGain View Post
    You forgot to mention beet root!
    Lulz. I still can't decide if that guy is the dumbest dude walking or just a pretty good troll.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

    Ironwill Gym---updated pics:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388


    Ironwill2008 Workout Journal:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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  13. #103
    All my PRs are history HoustonTXMuscle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    ....We laugh and joke about this stuff because we've since learned otherwise, but it's really pitiful how gullible people allow themselves to be in an effort to find some shortcut around hard work and discipline.

    And I 99% (no, make that 100%) guarantee that if you marketed something like ^^^^that, you'd be swamped with orders. Just use some big words and scientific terms in your ads, along with a list of study references (they don't have to refer to studies with any relevance at all to the supp; nobody will bother to copy/paste them into a browser and then see that they link to some obscure trial done back in 1953 on pregnant rodents), and you'll be a millionaire in no time.


    And I wish I were joking, but I'm not......
    Definitely not, Bill. It's even worse, from my perspective, having spent the latter years of my professional career working in: (1) protein catabolism and anabolism; (2) serving on scientific editorial boards; and continuing to peruse PubMed, almost daily, as my primary search engine. I cease to be amazed at how the unjustified extrapolation from individual scientific ideas often results in passionately supported ideologies, i.e., broscience.
    Inactivity Kills!!!

    My journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140991491 Age is NOT an acceptable excuse.

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  14. #104
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoustonTXMuscle View Post
    Definitely not, Bill. It's even worse, from my perspective, having spent the latter years of my professional career working in: (1) protein catabolism and anabolism; (2) serving on scientific editorial boards; and continuing to peruse PubMed, almost daily, as my primary search engine. I cease to be amazed at how the unjustified extrapolation from individual scientific ideas often results in passionately supported ideologies, i.e., broscience.
    Yep, Bob; it's marketing sleight-of-hand, for sure. One tiny shred of some kind of distantly-connected evidence will be exploited, usually out of context, to get into some noob's pocket. And some of the study references listed in the ads are downright comical in their total irrelevance to the product being hawked.



    If people would just spend a little time before they spent their hard-earned $$$; all the resources are right here under the keys on our keyboards.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

    Ironwill Gym---updated pics:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388


    Ironwill2008 Workout Journal:
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  15. #105
    Working on Hoosier 2.0 HoosierHardGain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Lulz. I still can't decide if that guy is the dumbest dude walking or just a pretty good troll.
    It really appeared to me he was buying what he was selling, so I imagine he didn't know any better.

    Now the guy yesterday trying to tell me it was a waste of money to get a gym membership and lift weights, well, I really don't know lol
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  16. #106
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Ironwill2008 V3.0

    Closed out the training week with a solid session. Moved forward an inch or three. Today's training was:

    Romanian Deadlift
    bar x15 W/U
    135x5 W/U
    225x5
    275x5
    315x5
    345x5
    375x4





    Alternate Dumbbell Curl
    30x10 W/U
    45x8
    45x8
    50x3




    Dips
    bw +45x7
    bw +45x7
    bw +45x6



    Moved through here in about an hour. I regained my 4th rep on RDLs that I lost a few weeks ago. The task now is to make it stick.

    Curls didn't advance, but form was 'okay;' I'll try the 50s one more week and see how it goes, and then decide whether or not to keep working them at that weight.

    Picked up a tough rep on Dips. Still have a way to go to get to 8-across, but I'm working on it.

    I'll rest this weekend, hopefully in front of the TV and wall-to-wall football, then work on Smith Fronts, Leg Presses, Pulldowns, and OHps on Monday.






    Post-Workout meal was 1/4 pound of grilled ground sirloin, steak-fried potatos, fresh green beans, and a glass of milk.

    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

    Ironwill Gym---updated pics:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388


    Ironwill2008 Workout Journal:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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  17. #107
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoosierHardGain View Post
    It really appeared to me he was buying what he was selling, so I imagine he didn't know any better.

    Now the guy yesterday trying to tell me it was a waste of money to get a gym membership and lift weights, well, I really don't know lol
    Just a guess, but all the O35 trolls are probably the same few people, and likely regular posters using alternate accounts. Most of the posts contain too many buzzwords known to elicit a response for them to be anything else. And they can be sniffed out from a mile away.
    No brain, no gain.

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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Closed out the training week with a solid session. Moved forward an inch or three. Today's training was:

    Romanian Deadlift
    bar x15 W/U
    135x5 W/U
    225x5
    275x5
    315x5
    345x5
    375x4




    Alternate Dumbbell Curl
    30x10 W/U
    45x8
    45x8
    50x3




    Dips
    bw +45x7
    bw +45x7
    bw +45x6



    Moved through here in about an hour. I regained my 4th rep on RDLs that I lost a few weeks ago. The task now is to make it stick.

    Curls didn't advance, but form was 'okay;' I'll try the 50s one more week and see how it goes, and then decide whether or not to keep working them at that weight.

    Picked up a tough rep on Dips. Still have a way to go to get to 8-across, but I'm working on it.

    I'll rest this weekend, hopefully in front of the TV and wall-to-wall football, then work on Smith Fronts, Leg Presses, Pulldowns, and OHps on Monday.






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    Originally Posted by HoosierHardGain View Post


    Now the guy yesterday trying to tell me it was a waste of money to get a gym membership and lift weights, well, I really don't know lol
    I wasn't sure about this guy either... it seems the general belief was that he was a troll... If he was, I feel kind of dumb putting up the picture of my wife and spouting off her deadlift stats... thought I was punking him and then it turns out he might have been punking the rest of us.
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    Awesome DB rows, I'm sure it won't take you long to get to the 120's. Dips +45lb would be seriously hitting your chest and tri's. How are your shoulders and elbows with this one? I see you've mentioned hands and wrists being an issue.

    I love the fact you love lunges! There certainly is no other exercise that works the body the way they do. 245lb is so badass. I find my knees threaten to pop with "Lunges-In-Place".

    there are probably a dozen Lunge variants, and there's always some confusion as to which is which.

    I refer to the variant I use as "Lunges-In-Place," and yes, one rep consists of a stride forward followed by a heavy push backwards back to upright. I'll do all my reps with one leg, take a breath or three, then complete the set with an equal number of reps (if I'm lucky!) with the other leg.
    /\/\ Take a breath or three

    /\ (If I'm lucky!)

    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Capped off the training week with a good session. Wasn't able to move the numbers up much, but effort was solid all the way through, so I'm okay with it. Today's training was;

    Romanian Deadlift
    bar x15 W/U
    135x5 W/U
    225x5
    275x5
    315x5
    345x5
    375x3

    Solid effort and especially admiring the 5@345 and 3@375 at the end.

    Lunges will definitely put the bite on you if they haven't been worked in a while. There just isn't any other exercise that works the body the way they do, so the only way to get and remain conditioned to them is to do them.
    Totally agree here. They're great at any weight too!
    .
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  21. #111
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    Originally Posted by brucedelaney View Post
    Sturdy numbers there Bill!
    Thanks, Bruce. I'm close to my limit on just about everything, but it fits me so well that I hesitate to make any big changes just yet.

    I'd like to get back to Barbell Squats and conventional Deadlifts, but I feel like there's still a little meat left on the bones of this current routine.










    Originally Posted by brucedelaney View Post
    I wasn't sure about this guy either... it seems the general belief was that he was a troll... If he was, I feel kind of dumb putting up the picture of my wife and spouting off her deadlift stats... thought I was punking him and then it turns out he might have been punking the rest of us.
    Trolls and forum knuckleheads aren't worth our consideration; they either go away when the poster tires of his own efforts or gets banned.

    But if they post potentially harmful information, demean other forum members, or misrepresent themselves as something they're not, it's sometimes worthwhile to go after them and expose them. I despise scammers and others who would mislead noobs in any way.











    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    Awesome DB rows, I'm sure it won't take you long to get to the 120's. Dips +45lb would be seriously hitting your chest and tri's. How are your shoulders and elbows with this one? I see you've mentioned hands and wrists being an issue.
    Thanks, Louise! I'm working as hard as I'm able to keep it moving forward.

    I had to quit doing dips several years ago due to the 'discomfort' they caused my wrists and hands. It's only been a few months since I've been cautiously working Dips again. So far with this go-around, I haven't yet had enough of an issue to stop doing them, but I'm nowhere near the loads I used to use either, so time will tell.

    Oddly enough, they (Dips) don't bother my shoulders, and my elbows have never given me any trouble. I'll keep my fingers crossed!





    I love the fact you love lunges! There certainly is no other exercise that works the body the way they do. 245lb is so badass. I find my knees threaten to pop with "Lunges-In-Place".
    Thanks. Lunges are almost my flagship exercise; I've been doing them for a long time. And I agree, they're different than just about every other leg exercise in their function.


    Totally agree here. They're great at any weight too!
    True that. And your right about the weight; it's not necessarily about the gross weight used. Like any other exercise, it's all about progression, and gradually increasing the load over a long period of time. I started doing Lunges about 20 years ago with a pair of light dumbbells.
    No brain, no gain.

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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    I despise scammers and others who would mislead noobs in any way.
    You don't know how much some of us appreciate this. Being an uber noob myself, it's difficult to sort out the crap. The magazines & supp companies sell the promise of an easy shortcut. I was lucky enough to stumble across the journals first (instead of the bro science areas of the forum), otherwise I'd probably have a much lighter wallet & nothing to show for it.

    I'm guilty of lurking, but just trying to take it all in. Thanks for all the advice!
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    ...
    I started doing Lunges about 20 years ago with a pair of light dumbbells.
    Bill's idea of light dumbbells.

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    Originally Posted by Jeepindoc View Post
    You don't know how much some of us appreciate this. Being an uber noob myself, it's difficult to sort out the crap. The magazines & supp companies sell the promise of an easy shortcut. I was lucky enough to stumble across the journals first (instead of the bro science areas of the forum), otherwise I'd probably have a much lighter wallet & nothing to show for it.

    I'm guilty of lurking, but just trying to take it all in. Thanks for all the advice!
    Thanks. I sure don't claim to know everything, but what I have learned, I'm happy to share with anyone who's working to better themselves. And since I retired, I have the opportunity to spend time digging into stuff just as deep as I wish.

    This sport is ruled by emotion more than science (for better or worse), but it's always best to lean towards what's logical, provable, and repeatable.











    Originally Posted by LordGrover View Post
    Bill's idea of light dumbbells.

    Lulz. That thing probably weighs 350!
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

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  25. #115
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    This sport is ruled by emotion more than science (for better or worse)
    Much of the science is written in pencil too. Thanks for doing what you do and HAPPY SATURDAY.
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    Originally Posted by cmoore View Post
    Much of the science is written in pencil too. Thanks for doing what you do and HAPPY SATURDAY.
    That's an excellent point, C. When it comes to anything gym/exercise related, other than a few very basic rules (compounds best for overall development; volume/frequency/intensity being closely interrelated; progression being tops on the list of requirements for growth; a few others), everything else is subject to a vast array of variables, everything from the trainee's femur length to how stressful his personal life might be.

    It always amuses me to see someone post something like, "You MUST do 4 sets of 10 reps each to build mass!," or "Squats (or Barbell Curls, or Cable Rows, or 'whatever') are the BEST exercise for 'X' body part growth!"

    Really? For who?









    Have a good weekend yourself.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

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    In. Better late than never, 'tis the busy season at work. Looking good Bill.
    One question on the RDL's, and I apologize if this has been covered before - Do you start out around mid-shin? Or do you begin and end at the floor? I'm beginning these soon and some of the folks/sites I respect suggest mid-shin, just wondering what you do.
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    That's an excellent point, C. When it comes to anything gym/exercise related, other than a few very basic rules (compounds best for overall development; volume/frequency/intensity being closely interrelated; progression being tops on the list of requirements for growth; a few others), everything else is subject to a vast array of variables, everything from the trainee's femur length to how stressful his personal life might be.

    It always amuses me to see someone post something like, "You MUST do 4 sets of 10 reps each to build mass!," or "Squats (or Barbell Curls, or Cable Rows, or 'whatever') are the BEST exercise for 'X' body part growth!"

    Really? For who?
    And they'll use as their argument, "Well, it works for <insert favorite bodybuilder> so it must be true!" Their argument doesn't take into account that bodybuilder's genetics, body structure, and of course chemical assistance.
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  29. #119
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    Originally Posted by tnthudson View Post
    In. Better late than never, 'tis the busy season at work. Looking good Bill.
    One question on the RDL's, and I apologize if this has been covered before - Do you start out around mid-shin? Or do you begin and end at the floor? I'm beginning these soon and some of the folks/sites I respect suggest mid-shin, just wondering what you do.
    Whatever you do, it's working
    Hey, Todd; I'm glad you found my new journal!

    To perform Romanians, the start position is standing while holding the bar at a dead-hang. The lift starts at the hip, and the bar is lowered to about mid-shin, all the while keeping the bar in contact with the legs. Once mid-shin is reached, the bar is lifted by pushing the hips forward, all the while keeping the back arched and the bar in constant contact with the legs.

    Here's an excellent vid of proper RDL:

















    Originally Posted by HoosierHardGain View Post
    And they'll use as their argument, "Well, it works for <insert favorite bodybuilder> so it must be true!" Their argument doesn't take into account that bodybuilder's genetics, body structure, and of course chemical assistance.
    And that's another thing that's mildly amusing--using n=1 as "proof" of some methodology. That's a very narrow-minded way to look at any aspect of training or nutrition.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    Where the mind goes, the body follows.

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    That is a great vid, thanks. Those guys have some neat stuff.
    OK thanks as always, Bill.
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