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  1. #1
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    High carb + Sodium= steroid like gains (my advice)

    I have been training naturally for all my life, not using much supps. My father and grandfather were all into bodybuilding, so my knowledge on training and eating was heavily shaped by their expertise and knowledge.


    What helped me the most ( it was hard to accept after trying broscience approach ) was listening to my father who recommended and small/medium fat diet, medium protein and extremely high carb diet with addition of high sodium.

    The effects have been tremendous, hope you can judge by my avi. Never have I felt more energetic, full and the funniest part is that eating a lot of carbs makes my metabolism lighting fast.

    After 2 years on low sodium, low/medium carb and high protein/fat, adoption of high carb/high sodium has given me steroid like gains which are just imcomparable with the keto/low carb/low sodium approach.

    My blood tests have shown a vast improvement in Thyroid activity, reduction in blood glucose ( who thought eating high carb could do that?) and improved blood lipids.

    The majority of fats come from eggs,liver and nuts- as eggs and liver are high in Omega 6 Arachidonic Acid. I have reduced my Omega 3 intake and seen massiv improvement in the last two years.

    The carb sources beleive me or not are very diverse, concentrate on starches. Bagels, potatoes, bread, pasta make 70% of my carb intake. The rest is fruits and sugars.

    For sodium, get on the pickles, fermented vegetables and sprinkle all your meals with salt in large quanitities. At first, you will feel bloated and tad swelling due to increased sodium, but once your body adjusts, your muscles will pop, face will get lean as hell and you will be pumped 24/7.


    My current weight stands at 225 lbs at 9-10% bf. My bulking cals are around 3750 kcal. I have around 66-70 grams of fat, around 150 grams of protein and around 600 grams of carbs per day. My salt intake is double the recommended 6 grams a day and is around 12-14 grams per day ( blood pressure is fine as hell)

    Just wanted to share that on the Teen forums for all those who want to see results.
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  2. #2
    Registered User dielan2131's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by J777 View Post
    I have been training naturally for all my life, not using much supps. My father and grandfather were all into bodybuilding, so my knowledge on training and eating was heavily shaped by their expertise and knowledge.


    What helped me the most ( it was hard to accept after trying broscience approach ) was listening to my father who recommended and small/medium fat diet, medium protein and extremely high carb diet with addition of high sodium.

    The effects have been tremendous, hope you can judge by my avi. Never have I felt more energetic, full and the funniest part is that eating a lot of carbs makes my metabolism lighting fast.

    After 2 years on low sodium, low/medium carb and high protein/fat, adoption of high carb/high sodium has given me steroid like gains which are just imcomparable with the keto/low carb/low sodium approach.

    My blood tests have shown a vast improvement in Thyroid activity, reduction in blood glucose ( who thought eating high carb could do that?) and improved blood lipids.

    The majority of fats come from eggs,liver and nuts- as eggs and liver are high in Omega 6 Arachidonic Acid. I have reduced my Omega 3 intake and seen massiv improvement in the last two years.

    The carb sources beleive me or not are very diverse, concentrate on starches. Bagels, potatoes, bread, pasta make 70% of my carb intake. The rest is fruits and sugars.

    For sodium, get on the pickles, fermented vegetables and sprinkle all your meals with salt in large quanitities. At first, you will feel bloated and tad swelling due to increased sodium, but once your body adjusts, your muscles will pop, face will get lean as hell and you will be pumped 24/7.


    My current weight stands at 225 lbs at 9-10% bf. My bulking cals are around 3750 kcal. I have around 66-70 grams of fat, around 150 grams of protein and around 600 grams of carbs per day. My salt intake is double the recommended 6 grams a day and is around 12-14 grams per day ( blood pressure is fine as hell)

    Just wanted to share that on the Teen forums for all those who want to see results.
    Interesting, I'll look into it, bulking is just around the corner for me
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  3. #3
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dielan2131 View Post
    Interesting, I'll look into it, bulking is just around the corner for me
    You can always PM and I will be very happy to help.
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  4. #4
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    For those who are scientific and need evidence which is not anecdotal.

    Carbohydrates are rarely stored as fat in humans. When bulking and being in a surplus, that is crucial.

    http://suppversity.blogspot.co.uk/20...better-go.html


    The conversion of carbs to fat, called de novo lipogenesis (DNL), is found throughout the animal kingdom but happens to be relatively rare in humans. It can happen under two conditions. First, under extreme conditions of severe carbohydrate overfeeding. A tribe in Cameroon has a “fattening” tradition where adolescent boys are fed 3-4 times the calories that they would normally eat, with most of the extra calories coming from carbs. A study of this tradition found that the boys gained an average of 12kg of body fat over 10 weeks while eating only 4 grams of fat. In this situation, the body converted carbs directly to fat in response to massive quantities of carbs being ingested. Keep in mind, the chance of this happening under normal circumstances is slim to none.

    It’s very rare that anyone will eat 3-4 times their normal amount of calories. All these nightmare dietary scenarios that terrify us into thinking that too many carbs will make us fat are just that, nightmare scenarios. They just don’t happen under normal dietary conditions.

    A Couple Studies

    A 2001 study appearing in the American Journal for Clinical Nutrition compared de novo lipogenesis in lean subjects and obese subjects. The details of what occurred aren’t that important because the conclusion of the research was that although rates of lipogenesis increase in both lean and obese people due to over-feeding (by 50%) the rate of de novo lipogenesis is relatively small to the point of being insignificant.

    In a 1999 review of de novo lipogenesis in humans, the researcher observed that only when carbohydrate intake exceeded daily caloric expenditure would DNL occur to any significant degree. If your daily caloric expenditure is 2,000 calories, you’d have to eat at least 2,000 carb calories alone before any DNL took place–and even then the DNL response would be very tiny. No normal person would eat that many carb calories unless you figured out a way to mainline them into your veins. You don’t eat carbs alone; you eat meals which consist of carbs, protein, and fat. Eating 2,000 carb calories as well as normal amounts of protein and fat would push your daily caloric intake way past the 2,000 that you burn. You’ll get fat even without de novo lipogenesis.

    The Carb/Fat relationship

    Your body can store around 500 grams of carbs in your muscles and liver as glycogen. A small amount is always present in the bloodstream as blood sugar (glucose). If those stores are full, where do the carbs go? The fear is that the body will have to convert the extra carbs into fat for storage. But what studies actually show is that the body responds by simply burning off more of the carbs for energy and lipogenesis rates are low or insignificant. When the carbs are burned off, the body goes back to burning fat for its main fuel source.

    When people get fat, it happens in one of two ways. If their extra calories are coming in the form of carbs, the body spends so much time burning the carbs that body fat doesn’t get burned off. Fat stores increase. You get fat indirectly.

    If their extra calories are coming from fat, dietary fat is getting stored in fat cells faster than it can be burned off, so, again, fat stores increase. You get fat directly from storing too much dietary fat.

    Either way, you get fat, and the key is the extra calories.

    If you are in energy balance, there is absolutely nothing to worry about. What carbs come in get burned off. It’s only when you start to gain weight that the possibility of carb to fat conversion could occur. Even then, the only way that this process occurs to any significant degree is in response to massive over-feeding of carbs.

    The other condition is which the conversion of carbs to fat can occur is in times of severe dietary fat restriction. If dietary fat drops below 10% of your calories, the body will convert carbs to fat to maintain fat stores. Beyond being an interesting tidbit of information, it’s not something to spend much time thinking about.
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  5. #5
    Registered User addictedal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by J777 View Post
    You can always PM and I will be very happy to help.
    Don't know whether to believe but if you do have evidence to back all this up or something then i will try this asap.
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  6. #6
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by addictedal View Post
    Don't know whether to believe but if you do have evidence to back all this up or something then i will try this asap.
    read above mate.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Nvrlift's Avatar
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    cos u r all natty, right?
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  8. #8
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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  9. #9
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nvrlift View Post
    cos u r all natty, right?
    natural. Been training since I was 14 years old. (my dad coached me from the inception of my journey )
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  10. #10
    Strength Jericoe's Avatar
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    Fats + Sodium = Strength
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  11. #11
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jericoe View Post
    Fats + Sodium = Strength
    this is mostly attributed to sodium rather than fat. Body composition-wise (assuming this is a bodybuilding forum, not powerlifting ), carbs are metabolically superior and better for body composition.
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  12. #12
    Biochemistry AlacrityH's Avatar
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    Aware me the benefits of sodium for strength?
    Fates colliding. Love Undying.
    I rep all 5'5 and shorter on sight.

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  13. #13
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    carbs and sodium taste nice
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  14. #14
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    "Steroid like gainz" = mass water retention secondary to high carbs/na+.

    High na+ will not give you gainz, just health problems down the road.
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  15. #15
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlacrityH View Post
    Aware me the benefits of sodium for strength?
    Sodium helps to regulate a number of key functions in the body, including muscle contraction, nerve function, blood volume, and acid-base balance. When you decrease your sodium intake, your body will compensate by excreting potassium, which will cause a decrease in the fluid volume of your muscle cells. This hurts their ability to grow. Increasing sodium intake, therefore, can increase muscle size by adding more fluid volume. A higher volume of intracellular fluid also increases protein turnover, further spurring growth. Another mechanism through which sodium can increase strength is by increasing extra-cellular fluid levels (fluid outside the cell membrane), which in turn improves the leverage in your joints, allowing you to move more weight on lifts. These increases in fluid volume both inside and outside the cell have also been shown to reduce the incidence of muscle strains and tendon injuries by decreasing the friction exerted upon these tissues. Finally, many critical amino acids are sodium-dependent. This means they are able to enter a muscle cell only when accompanied by a sodium molecule.
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  16. #16
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lift6969 View Post
    "Steroid like gainz" = mass water retention secondary to high carbs/na+.

    High na+ will not give you gainz, just health problems down the road.
    lol at carbophobic term "water retention". Proove that Sodium causes health problems, go on
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  17. #17
    Biochemistry AlacrityH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by J777 View Post
    Sodium helps to regulate a number of key functions in the body, including muscle contraction, nerve function, blood volume, and acid-base balance. When you decrease your sodium intake, your body will compensate by excreting potassium, which will cause a decrease in the fluid volume of your muscle cells. This hurts their ability to grow. Increasing sodium intake, therefore, can increase muscle size by adding more fluid volume. A higher volume of intracellular fluid also increases protein turnover, further spurring growth. Another mechanism through which sodium can increase strength is by increasing extra-cellular fluid levels (fluid outside the cell membrane), which in turn improves the leverage in your joints, allowing you to move more weight on lifts. These increases in fluid volume both inside and outside the cell have also been shown to reduce the incidence of muscle strains and tendon injuries by decreasing the friction exerted upon these tissues. Finally, many critical amino acids are sodium-dependent. This means they are able to enter a muscle cell only when accompanied by a sodium molecule.
    "You must spread some reputation before giving it to J777 again" can't remember when I repped you haha.

    But wow couldn't have asked for a better explanation. I always assumed potassium and magnesium to be more instrumental than sodium in terms of muscle strains. Awaiting proof by lift6969 that sodium causes long term health problems.

    It's all starting to make sense to me now because my sodium intake is 2x the daily rec value (granted its a bs value).

    EDIT: Would water intake have to increase with a higher sodium intake?

    EDITx2: the bloat I get from an increased sodium diet isn't a bad thing? Sorry haha I'm like mindblown right now this is revolutionary stuff.
    Last edited by AlacrityH; 10-08-2013 at 08:56 AM.
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  18. #18
    I'm fawkin' zeez brah slapcity's Avatar
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    I've always kept sodium very high. Never tell anybody because most are brainwashed by the media which loves to demonize sodium.
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  19. #19
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by slapcity View Post
    I've always kept sodium very high. Never tell anybody because most are brainwashed by the media which loves to demonize sodium.
    great to know that someone is willing to look beyond the keto,atkins and sodium purging hypes.
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  20. #20
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlacrityH View Post
    "You must spread some reputation before giving it to J777 again" can't remember when I repped you haha.

    But wow couldn't have asked for a better explanation. I always assumed potassium and magnesium to be more instrumental than sodium in terms of muscle strains. Awaiting proof by lift6969 that sodium causes long term health problems.

    It's all starting to make sense to me now because my sodium intake is 2x the daily rec value (granted its a bs value).

    EDIT: Would water intake have to increase with a higher sodium intake?

    EDITx2: the bloat I get from an increased sodium diet isn't a bad thing? Sorry haha I'm like mindblown right now this is revolutionary stuff.
    The water intake should remain steady at 2-3 litres per day. My personal advice is also to eat your high sodium meals warmed up/hot, this will create a sponge effect Sodium is also linked to metabolic functioning, the BMR and also to increased insulin sensitivity
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  21. #21
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlacrityH View Post
    "You must spread some reputation before giving it to J777 again" can't remember when I repped you haha.

    But wow couldn't have asked for a better explanation. I always assumed potassium and magnesium to be more instrumental than sodium in terms of muscle strains. Awaiting proof by lift6969 that sodium causes long term health problems.

    It's all starting to make sense to me now because my sodium intake is 2x the daily rec value (granted its a bs value).

    EDIT: Would water intake have to increase with a higher sodium intake?

    EDITx2: the bloat I get from an increased sodium diet isn't a bad thing? Sorry haha I'm like mindblown right now this is revolutionary stuff.
    The bloat that may come with increased sodium consumption will be temporary, do not let it discourage you. The body will then find its own balance, and eating high sodium will no longer bloat you as such
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  22. #22
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    Cool. So spaghetti, bananas, and chicken breast everyday?





    Fukk yeah
    YKYMF!
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  23. #23
    Registered User J777's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alphatraz24 View Post
    Cool. So spaghetti, bananas, and chicken breast everyday?







    Fukk yeah
    to be honest, I rarely eat chicken. Majority of my protein/fat intake comprises of chicken liver, whole eggs and beef to be honest. I also eat McDonalds 3-4 times a week (just the hamburgers and cheeseburgers). My additional staple is Pickled Gherkings, Pickled Vegetables, bacon and salami/nitrate rich foods.

    I eat 200-250 boiled chicken liver pretty much everyday. It is like 40 grams of protein, 15 grams of fat and has a large content of vitamin A, iron and Arachidonic Acid.
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    Originally Posted by J777 View Post
    to be honest, I rarely eat chicken. Majority of my protein/fat intake comprises of chicken liver, whole eggs and beef to be honest. I also eat McDonalds 3-4 times a week (just the hamburgers and cheeseburgers). My additional staple is Pickled Gherkings, Pickled Vegetables, bacon and salami/nitrate rich foods.
    4 mcdoubles at least every other day crew checking in. I buy those huge pickle jars monthly.


    Never had anything even close to resembling a good diet. But always made gains. I guess there is something to this
    YKYMF!
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    Originally Posted by Alphatraz24 View Post
    4 mcdoubles at least every other day crew checking in. I buy those huge pickle jars monthly.


    Never had anything even close to resembling a good diet. But always made gains. I guess there is something to this
    Looking at your avi, you are more than definitely on the right path. You got there instinctually I guess. People here probably think I am crazy. but well, I am readay to debate and take criticism for what I write here and defend my experience
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    Definitely would be important to keep a decent water intake as stated.
    Also I'm not claiming how much sodium is too much. The body does well at maintaining equilibrium, and this is dependent on many factors but hypernatremia is bad news if it occurs, as is any electrolyte imbalance. Sodium is awesome, and very necessary and it is very much feared by a lot of people, thank you media hype.
    I think with preexisting heart conditions this is of more concern than for the general public.
    But yeah if doing something like this keep your body in check everyone responds differently to different stimulus
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    Originally Posted by Jdart View Post
    Definitely would be important to keep a decent water intake as stated.
    Also I'm not claiming how much sodium is too much. The body does well at maintaining equilibrium, and this is dependent on many factors but hypernatremia is bad news if it occurs, as is any electrolyte imbalance. Sodium is awesome, and very necessary and it is very much feared by a lot of people, thank you media hype.
    I think with preexisting heart conditions this is of more concern than for the general public.
    But yeah if doing something like this keep your body in check everyone responds differently to different stimulus
    for bodybuilders, athletes my recommendation applies the most. For hard training folks hypernatriemia is not a concern as such. Too much of good stuff can be bad, that is true. But Sodium is demonized too much due to hysteria that it bloats you, makes you fat (lol) and will cause all sorts of nasty side effects.

    Never in my life have I been more vascular and energetic/feeling warm than after increasing my carb and sodium intake. This combination is a killer.
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    nice one. learnt a lot
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    I do this anyway but for different reasons.
    Carbs for energy and gym performance and sodium because it tastes good

    lmao
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    i agree with this sodium is very important
    "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
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