Ask a former Wall Street investment banker (almost) anything

[Atlasz01]

procon you still alive?

[proconsul]

Quick question, Im currently at a semi target NYC school with a 3.91 gpa. I have internship experience at a boutique M&A firm (currently interning with them). I probably have a shot at getting a job with these guys after I graduate (just finished sophomore year.) My question is do I have a shot at getting an internship at a BB firm like JP & Goldman. From what I understand its going to come down to the actual interview. Any books you could recommend?

Thanks again

Ultimately I would like to use IB as a bridge to a top MBA school. Will working 2 years as an analyst at a regional allow me to do that or do i need to move up to BB?

any advice for a non-finance major that wants to break into a HF eventually? i'm studying engineering, but i love trading more than anything. not really interested in a black box fund since it seems they only hire math/physics PhD's.

A couple questions I hope you can answer. I'm a returning student to school getting a degree in accounting (I'm 27) . What would be your suggested career path? I'm trying to go Big 4 (or at least top 10 firm) and get my CPA. Then maybe go to b-school. I'd like to stay in SoCal as far as my career goes but not exactly sure what path I should go down after I put in a few years in public accounting. Any advice?

Also, where do most of the guys go after they have burnt out in banking? You said the older end of the spectrum on wall street is mid 30's, so what is the natural career path for a banker once their stint on wall street has run its course?

BTW, this thread has been for me one of the best threads I've read on the misc in my years on here.

OP I want to buy A dividend stock for my child so when he grows up he has something. What do you recommend instead of me getting a return i want it to buy more stock. (I'm new to all this)

how old is too old to get into wall street?

Age: 34. Your too old brah.

damn it all. was hoping to get on that wall street time and do blow out of a hookers angus

Why do you say common for MM banks?

Granted I am in MM, but for deals where analysts don't publish, sometimes LTM sales / EBITDA is the best you can get. It's another data point.

I have been lurking for a year or two, but decided to make an account to ask you specific question.

Question 1: Is it common for CPA's to transfer into the corporate finance world? To give you a little background about myself, I am currently a student at a top 3 undergraduate business school who studying accounting/finance. I just started my summer internship at a mid size accounting firm (not Big 4) and I enjoy it. However, my real goal is to become a CFO and I know you need a strong finance background to make it.

Leading off the first question: Should I continue pursing internships in accounting or go for finance? At my school, it is highly competitive for the finance internships. I have a relatively low gpa (3.2) which does not compare to some of my friends (who are IB interns at Citi, Sachs, Lazard, and Morgan Stanley) that maintain a have 3.7+ gpa.


Thanks

Only desk where math matters anymore is algos. Everything else is so watered down and straight forward now. It's about to get so much worse for fixed income too if the bill passes to make the desks disclose their markups. Equities will once again reign supreme as they have begun to learn how to make money again while fixed income is getting hammered with regs.

Most of the desks all trade cross product now anyway even from equities to fixed income. If you can make money somewhere, you do.

Is Vanderbilt considered a target school now? I know recently they've been doing a lot to step up their Econ degree(all they offer), even coming out with a new MBA program and I believe last year they became one the top 3 schools BAML recruited at. I believe they are also a pretty heavily recruited school for consulting, which I suppose would be considered a great "plan B" if I was unsuccessful at getting my foot in the door in iBanking.

Im looking to transfer schools but I missed the deadline for a couple schools I wanted due to some family stuff, and Yale sadly rejected my application altogether because I have more credits than their max allowed(I know their acceptance rate for transfers is around 5% but I still felt very confident). Im waiting to hear back from Penn St too, I may just try again next time around at all the big well known target schools to see if I can get in to any.

Is it to old to become a first year Analyst at 32? I've gotten mixed responses/info about this.

I come from a completely unrelated background (construction), but want to get a bachelors in commerce from Queens (4 years) (28 now), technically I had my work experience BEFORE uni, not AFTER (which I heard makes a big difference), so fresh out of Uni (as an undergrad) do I have a shot as a first year?

whats you opinion of canadian banks vs american.

Bump for the most interesting thread I have ever read on the misc. I've only made it to page 4, but you give great insight into the field. I'm definitely going to finish this thread after I take the DAT next week (or maybe before as a form of procrastination instead of studying).

But I do have a question or two. I saw your recommendations before on books, but after a quick google, they look like novels. Still interesting, and I may pick up a couple after learning more about all this jazz. Do you have any recommendations on books for someone that just wants to casually learn about finance/banking/business/etc.? If so, what are they?

I feel like this era will be looked back on as the era when the most brilliant minds rivaled one another in becoming speculators and not inventors or producers of anything of value.

just so you guys all know... this guys IQ/test scores on SAT and GMAT are about this high: 0.99987... that means he is literally around top 1 in 7,000 for intelligence. I used 3.66 deviations on a normal distribution curve. this is roughly comparable to his SAT score (and probably his GMAT score as well...).

the job field, and life this guy lived... literally, no one is capable of living except for a few lucky ones who won the genetic lottery.

no offense to OP, got my bachelors in Finance at #22 school.... so I understand what your saying, but I am no where near smart enough to do what you did for a life. even if I could relive my whole life all over again. but the first 3 pages so far has been an interesting read....



OP, questions:

when you were in high school, did you do any drugs? were you into sports? what did you spend your time doing? what people in your life had the biggest impact on your positive productive output before you started doing finance?


any advice for someone with an IQ only around 135 or so who is going back for accounting at 28 because I am no where near smart enough to do finance and working while going to school?

In general and off the top of your head, (I know this is not your field to ask), but is accounting as intense/hard to do/get in? - Honestly, I really don't want to work 100 hours a week all my life to do something, I really don't want something as intense as finance to work in...

and when I say accounting, I don't give a **** what it's in as long as it pays 50,000/yr in a low COL state and is less than 50/hrs a week.

procon you still alive?

Sorry, I have been on the road for the last week and a half, and have a couple of full-day meetings stacked up now that I'm back. Please bear with me.

I'll write something about these questions in the next few days, and I wanted to mark them for myself so I wouldn't have to dig through them again.

[Spazzzzy]

Holy fuk.

How did you get a 780 on the GMAT?



When you were doing all these exams and working, did you have much free time or did you just wake up, work, study, repeat? How disciplined are you?

I remember reading that even though you got to MD you felt that you weren't ever making it up to the real "power" positions, what was the reason for this?

Are those scores unusually high for banking field? (I realise they attract the creme de la creme) - You mentioned that in comparison to you, some of the traders are scary smart...



(Apologies if i asked any that have already been answered, it's been 6months since I read this front to back)

[LouBrah135]

Would you rather be over educated and underskilled or overskilled and under educated?

[proconsul]

Quick flyby answers to recent post

Holy fuk.

How did you get a 780 on the GMAT?

The GMAT's not that hard, if you're good at taking standardized tests. If you went to an Ivy League college, or MIT, or IIT in India... you're probably good at taking standardized tests. It doesn't necessarily make you smarter than everyone else.

I remember studying for the GMAT. My first practice test was like a 600 or something, because so much of the test revolved around high school geometry (3-4-5 right angle triangles.... woo hooo). Do a GMAT practice book worth of questions, and it's not so hard. When I took it, 720 was a great score that put you easily in the top percentile. Now, it's maybe 94th or 95th percentile. More than half the guys who get into top business schools score that.

How good of a test can it be?

When you were doing all these exams and working, did you have much free time or did you just wake up, work, study, repeat? How disciplined are you?

I was a really, really lazy student that got by on being smart rather than working hard. I only learned to work hard in the army and on Wall Street.

I remember reading that even though you got to MD you felt that you weren't ever making it up to the real "power" positions, what was the reason for this?

There are a LOT of managing directors in investment banking. Literally thousands of them. A small group are very prominent, famous guys (Bruce Wasserstein, Kenny Moelis, Frank Quattrone, Frank Boutros, Bob Greenhill, Jack Levy etc.). I was not one of those guys.

There is another tier of top bankers who are prominent enough to be sector or product heads for top firms (Gene Sykes, Matt L'heureux, Ben Lorello, etc.). Guys who are well known in the industry, or prominent rainmakers. I was not in that class either.

I was a relatively junior managing director for a less prominent bank, partly because I had made a decision as a mid-level banker to jump ship from my bulge bracket roots to a smaller platform (one of the Big Five Canadian banks). I would argue I was very well regarded, and a very proficient M&A specialist but that I was at most a nondescript second-tier subgroup-head type.

Are those scores unusually high for banking field? (I realise they attract the creme de la creme) - You mentioned that in comparison to you, some of the traders are scary smart...

(Apologies if i asked any that have already been answered, it's been 6months since I read this front to back)

Probably 80-90% of the people on Wall Street would have scored in the 700s for the GMAT, but like I said, it's not a great measure of intelligence or aptitude. The IQ test, I believe, loses validity once you get into the tails of the bell curve. Three standard deviations out vs four? What is that, the difference in getting four or five more questions right? Four vs six? Two or three questions? Who knows. But even on a really long test, it's not a big difference. You could get lucky, or have a good/bad day. I'd say the test holds its best validity within four standard deviations. After that the margin of error gets wide pretty fast.

Some of the smartest guys aren't the highest IQ guys. Some guys just have weird brains that can process logic or math more quickly than anyone else, even though they can be pretty average at other things.

[FinanceSwole]

wall st bro checking in.

Did you commute from NJ or live in NYC? I'm trying to figure out waht my commuting options are for getting to wall from north jersey (keeping it under one hour).

Also, where did you eat at usually? Food options suck here.

[rustlinjimmiez]

Quick flyby answers to recent post

Extremely good answers from OP. I'm not looking to get into IB (not at a target, so it's not my priority, although if I luck it I don't mind obviously) but I have a question that's geared more towards girls:

Did the money help with girls?

The stereotype is that girls love money.

My theory is that girls love money only when there's a huge difference in wealth between you and her, or if she's looking for a support net (ie looking for a husband provider).

However, when you're in IB, I assume that the people in your circles will mostly be wealthy anyway - either in IB or biglaw or whatever. So in the end, your money means nothing. That is, your wealth would've helped you only with librarians or whatever, or maybe non-Big 4 accountants.

Money might be helpful insofar as it allows you to party a lot and stay out through the night clubbing, but it doesn't seem like you've head a lot of time to do that.

OP I know you said you were married, but no doubt you would've still noticed any difference in reactions when you said you were in IB or whatever.

Thoughts? Any other high-earners want to chime in?

[namechange]

If you want a top MBA shoot for a 720. I scored a 720(could have done 760+ but was just burned out and didn't want to take it again) and it was enough to garner me decent scholarship money at a lot of top schools. This of course was in conjuction with my WE(4.5 years of upward progression in my industry w/ management experience), interview(I flew to every school to interview in person), UG institution/GPA, and apps/essays.

So for anyone looking for up to date info on bschool I will be happy to help as I just went through the process and will be attending a top school in a month

[RobElite]

I want to be rich.

[waatsgood]

This may sound like an oxymoron, but are there any finance jobs you can recommend that can still provide a good salary without having to kill yourself with IB types of hours?

[freshspam1]

This may sound like an oxymoron, but are there any finance jobs you can recommend that can still provide a good salary without having to kill yourself with IB types of hours?

Middle office (e.g. risk management

[hardestgainer]

Sorry, I have been on the road for the last week and a half, and have a couple of full-day meetings stacked up now that I'm back. Please bear with me.

I'll write something about these questions in the next few days, and I wanted to mark them for myself so I wouldn't have to dig through them again.

Hope you get a chance to answer my qustion if you have any insight on it.


Also, OP someone should make a movie about your life, seems interesting as hell and you've done a lot in different fields. Ive always been considered the guy in school who gets by on being smart but also lazy(doing the bare minimum to get A's) but damn, I've got a feeling if I was in class with you Id feel like a fool lol. I was looking at all the top MBA schools GMAT scores last week and a 780 basically gets you in wherever you want. You may have already been asked(read through the whole thread awhile ago) but at Yale were you pushed a lot more in terms of effort you needed to put in to keep good grades?

[proconsul]

Quick question, Im currently at a semi target NYC school with a 3.91 gpa. I have internship experience at a boutique M&A firm (currently interning with them). I probably have a shot at getting a job with these guys after I graduate (just finished sophomore year.) My question is do I have a shot at getting an internship at a BB firm like JP & Goldman. From what I understand its going to come down to the actual interview. Any books you could recommend?

Thanks again

Ultimately I would like to use IB as a bridge to a top MBA school. Will working 2 years as an analyst at a regional allow me to do that or do i need to move up to BB?

With a sophomore internship, you should be well positioned. No one will expect you to intern twice in a row at the same firm, so the logical thing to do is to translate it into the more important final summer internship. The MM summer will definitely help you place with a bulge bracket bank for your upcoming summer.

2 years is possible, but unusual. After doing a third year, you have a better shot. You do not need to be promoted. The general path is 2 years + 2 years in another job (PE/VC/corporate), or 3 years as an analyst.

any advice for a non-finance major that wants to break into a HF eventually? i'm studying engineering, but i love trading more than anything. not really interested in a black box fund since it seems they only hire math/physics PhD's.

Join an investment club at school and try to create some sort of verifiable investment track record. See if your university investment office is hiring. It's more long term, asset management type work than trading, but what you need is to show genuine interest. You may need to find a first job in finance in order to transition to a hedge fund. Some of my analysts went to the research/analysis side of a HF, then transitioned into trading.

A couple questions I hope you can answer. I'm a returning student to school getting a degree in accounting (I'm 27) . What would be your suggested career path? I'm trying to go Big 4 (or at least top 10 firm) and get my CPA. Then maybe go to b-school. I'd like to stay in SoCal as far as my career goes but not exactly sure what path I should go down after I put in a few years in public accounting. Any advice?

Also, where do most of the guys go after they have burnt out in banking? You said the older end of the spectrum on wall street is mid 30's, so what is the natural career path for a banker once their stint on wall street has run its course?

BTW, this thread has been for me one of the best threads I've read on the misc in my years on here.

CPA to big four is definitely your clearest, middle-of-the-road path. With an accounting degree and being slightly older, you could probably take a real shot at going directly into an analyst program, if you wanted to do investment banking. We take lateral hires from accounting firms all the time in strong markets, and we like (slightly) older analysts with good technical skills like accounting.

If you want to stay in SoCal, UCLA (if you want to do investment banking) or even USC for your MBA is a good choice.

OP I want to buy A dividend stock for my child so when he grows up he has something. What do you recommend instead of me getting a return i want it to buy more stock. (I'm new to all this)

Most brokerages will let you reinvest dividends automatically, often without commission charges.

how old is too old to get into wall street?

Age: 34. Your too old brah.

34 is pushing it, but not impossible if you are coming out of an MBA program. My mentor did 10 years in the Navy, went to Stanford, and started banking at age 34. He was a group head by the time he was 43, heading Tech M&A for Merrill Lynch.

Why do you say common for MM banks?

Granted I am in MM, but for deals where analysts don't publish, sometimes LTM sales / EBITDA is the best you can get. It's another data point.

This is why MM banks, particularly ones that do a lot of PE-to-PE deals use LTM as their primary valuation metric. There just isn't enough data to value off the forward using historical data. In fairness, the MM PE firms use LTM EBITDA as their benchmark for the same reason.

I have been lurking for a year or two, but decided to make an account to ask you specific question.

Question 1: Is it common for CPA's to transfer into the corporate finance world? To give you a little background about myself, I am currently a student at a top 3 undergraduate business school who studying accounting/finance. I just started my summer internship at a mid size accounting firm (not Big 4) and I enjoy it. However, my real goal is to become a CFO and I know you need a strong finance background to make it.

Leading off the first question: Should I continue pursing internships in accounting or go for finance? At my school, it is highly competitive for the finance internships. I have a relatively low gpa (3.2) which does not compare to some of my friends (who are IB interns at Citi, Sachs, Lazard, and Morgan Stanley) that maintain a have 3.7+ gpa.


Thanks

If you're at a target, you have a chance. Do your best to hide your GPA and try to win the job in the interview. If you get the offer before anyone realizes your GPA is light, you will still get the job.

Is Vanderbilt considered a target school now? I know recently they've been doing a lot to step up their Econ degree(all they offer), even coming out with a new MBA program and I believe last year they became one the top 3 schools BAML recruited at. I believe they are also a pretty heavily recruited school for consulting, which I suppose would be considered a great "plan B" if I was unsuccessful at getting my foot in the door in iBanking.

Im looking to transfer schools but I missed the deadline for a couple schools I wanted due to some family stuff, and Yale sadly rejected my application altogether because I have more credits than their max allowed(I know their acceptance rate for transfers is around 5% but I still felt very confident). Im waiting to hear back from Penn St too, I may just try again next time around at all the big well known target schools to see if I can get in to any.

Transferring into Yale is really, really hard. Most transfers are foreign students or special cases. Vanderbilt isn't really a widely targeted school, but people misuse the term target anyway. As long as a firm comes to do on-campus recruiting, it's a target school.

Is it to old to become a first year Analyst at 32? I've gotten mixed responses/info about this.

I come from a completely unrelated background (construction), but want to get a bachelors in commerce from Queens (4 years) (28 now), technically I had my work experience BEFORE uni, not AFTER (which I heard makes a big difference), so fresh out of Uni (as an undergrad) do I have a shot as a first year?

32 is really hard for an analyst. Not impossible, but the people making the harshest judgments about you (other analysts), will always be skeptical and question whether you can do what they do given your different position and priorities in life. Senior bankers are more likely to be sympathetic, but will also be skeptical.

Bump for the most interesting thread I have ever read on the misc. I've only made it to page 4, but you give great insight into the field. I'm definitely going to finish this thread after I take the DAT next week (or maybe before as a form of procrastination instead of studying).

But I do have a question or two. I saw your recommendations before on books, but after a quick google, they look like novels. Still interesting, and I may pick up a couple after learning more about all this jazz. Do you have any recommendations on books for someone that just wants to casually learn about finance/banking/business/etc.? If so, what are they?

Hope you get a chance to answer my qustion if you have any insight on it.


Also, OP someone should make a movie about your life, seems interesting as hell and you've done a lot in different fields. Ive always been considered the guy in school who gets by on being smart but also lazy(doing the bare minimum to get A's) but damn, I've got a feeling if I was in class with you Id feel like a fool lol. I was looking at all the top MBA schools GMAT scores last week and a 780 basically gets you in wherever you want. You may have already been asked(read through the whole thread awhile ago) but at Yale were you pushed a lot more in terms of effort you needed to put in to keep good grades?

Grade inflation is so rampant at Yale that you have to really work at it to get a C, so long as you show up. Yale is actually a pretty easy place to coast in the humanities if you're smart. In the sciences, particularly MB&B, it's hard to do well without working at it because you're up against a lot of highly competitive pre-meds trying to fight their way into Yale/Harvard/Stanford medical school.

Currently work for a small 50M EUR VC in london, new fund being raised for another 150M, started as an intern and moved my way to a business analyst looking at the early deals and working with the CRM and KPIs

This is my first job in the area and have very little contact/network. Would it be better to move to a bigger company to develop a broader amount of people i know?

In this market, stay where you are unless a really compelling opportunity comes along. Moving simply to meet more people is using a very valuable bullet without good reason (you only get so many chances to change firms before it begins to become a liability on your resume).

[psai]

thanks for the amazing thread OP!

anyway, i'm a rising junior at a non-target/semi-target (UNC) and i have a 3.33 GPA (although i will hopefully bring it up to a 3.5 after next semester)

my goal is to get into IB at an NYC-based BB (preferably M&A)
last summer (after freshman year) i interned at a small commercial real estate firm that owns/operates various multifamily developments (still work there part-time)
this summer i'm interning at a small local boutique investment bank here in NC that specializes in commercial real estate and handles deals anywhere between $2mil - $25mil

what should i start doing now in order to get an internship at a BB next summer?
would you say my credentials/experience are adequate?
would i have a higher chance of getting into the RE industry group at a BB versus some other group?
any other suggestions or advice you have for me?

at the end of this summer, once i complete my current internship and update my resume with some deals i've worked on, would it be fine to PM my resume to you so you can give me some feedback?

again, thanks so much for this thread. it's truly informative and your advice and experience are invaluable.

[JacqueAttack]

Hey OP, PM'ed you a while back but you didn't reply(I don't even remember what I asked lol).

I'll be attending UWO with AEO status to Ivey this upcoming september, what's the likelihood of landing an internship in PWM at a bulge bracket in Toronto as a freshman? Ultimately, I plan on working in NYC out of UG(albeit Ivey's OCR for US placement doesn't compare with American Ivys) but its unlikely that I would get any internships there first and second year.

Since you used to be Canadian, are you familiar with the VISA transfer policies of working in the US as a Canadian student? Are american placements more rare because of the complications involved?

Also what are some good resources to help me with the technicals involved? I've done a fair share of reading(moreso value investing) but have been trying to understand the technical side a bit better by familiarizing myself with Rosenbaum's Investment banking book, Macabacus, etc.

Truth be told, I'm asking for resources because a lot of it is over my head currently as I'm still in high school and haven't taken a formal course as of yet. I want to compete in finance/banking competitions as a freshman so I want to get a head start over my classmates. I probably won't get an analyst position at the investment club as a freshman, but I'm planning on putting my spare time towards reading and playing around with financial models and cutting back on the partying.

Thanks for doing this, appreciate it.

[FunnyWeasel]

subbed this thread. Just outta curiosity....what qualities are required to get into this kind of field? I'm double majoring in finance and real estate because I want to get a job straight outta college with no phucking difficulties.

[mcichocki]

I feel like this era will be looked back on as the era when the most brilliant minds rivaled one another in becoming speculators and not inventors or producers of anything of value.

Pairing speculation with elastic money has produced many periods of systemic growth. I'm not a fan of overly elastic money, but to say nothing of value has been invented/produced as a result of our loose money is comical.

[swolemcbaine]

Dat feel when your question is overlooked and everyone elses has been answered

[DasPhilosopher]

16 Years?

Damn, admire your resume.

On s scale of 1-10/10 what's your rating?

[ctownballer04]

I'm a 4.0 student doing a double major in math and finance, with a minor in economics. I'm also in honors business school and VP of Finance for our schools section of a national finance group. However, I got to a poverty school in Oregon.

Right now I'm in NY doing an internship on the floor of the NYSE. Any advice on how to get into IB from a non-target school? I don't think I want to do IB long term but it seems like the best route for the first two to three years before you decide what you want to do.

Thoughts?

[anonymous]

Hey OP, PM'ed you a while back but you didn't reply(I don't even remember what I asked lol).

I'll be attending UWO with AEO status to Ivey this upcoming september, what's the likelihood of landing an internship in PWM at a bulge bracket in Toronto as a freshman? Ultimately, I plan on working in NYC out of UG(albeit Ivey's OCR for US placement doesn't compare with American Ivys) but its unlikely that I would get any internships there first and second year.

Since you used to be Canadian, are you familiar with the VISA transfer policies of working in the US as a Canadian student? Are american placements more rare because of the complications involved?

Also what are some good resources to help me with the technicals involved? I've done a fair share of reading(moreso value investing) but have been trying to understand the technical side a bit better by familiarizing myself with Rosenbaum's Investment banking book, Macabacus, etc.

Truth be told, I'm asking for resources because a lot of it is over my head currently as I'm still in high school and haven't taken a formal course as of yet. I want to compete in finance/banking competitions as a freshman so I want to get a head start over my classmates. I probably won't get an analyst position at the investment club as a freshman, but I'm planning on putting my spare time towards reading and playing around with financial models and cutting back on the partying.

Thanks for doing this, appreciate it.

UWO is garbage brah, and AEO status is just a money grab. You should have applied to Queens Commerce.

Also as a freshman you are extremely unlikely to land any type of PWM bulge bracket internship unless you are a) connected or b) network your ass off. If you chose to go with option b), prepare to spend a lot of money on taking buses to Toronto and back to London. I only know of one first year who successfully got a PWM internship without the help of family, and this guy literally went to Toronto every weekend to network and have coffee with Queens Commerce alumni, and eventually asked for an internship which he obviously got since he was a hustler.

[anonymous]

I'm a 4.0 student doing a double major in math and finance, with a minor in economics. I'm also in honors business school and VP of Finance for our schools section of a national finance group. However, I got to a poverty school in Oregon.

Right now I'm in NY doing an internship on the floor of the NYSE. Any advice on how to get into IB from a non-target school? I don't think I want to do IB long term but it seems like the best route for the first two to three years before you decide what you want to do.

Thoughts?

Network. Honestly target schools are Bullchit, its for those people that don't know how to hustle and get their foot in the door, and so they need their university to set **** up for them.


I can guarantee you if you cold call, and grab coffee with 100+ different Investment bankers one of them is bound to put in a good word for you, and push your resume through the rest (Srs). Obviously you will get some ******* Investment bankers that could care less about you, but there are a couple who will take the time to grab coffee with you in order to "pay it forward", cherish these people, and nurture a mentorship relationship with them.

[ctownballer04]

Network. Honestly target schools are Bullchit, its for those people that don't know how to hustle and get their foot in the door, and so they need their university to set **** up for them.


I can guarantee you if you cold call, and grab coffee with 100+ different Investment bankers one of them is bound to put in a good word for you, and push your resume through the rest (Srs). Obviously you will get some ******* Investment bankers that could care less about you, but there are a couple who will take the time to grab coffee with you in order to "pay it forward", cherish these people, and nurture a mentorship relationship with them.

Thanks for the advice, I need to try harder but it's hard as fuk in Oregon. Very few investment bankers but I have a good connection with the CEO of a local bank so I'll just keep hustlin' cuz.

[RH1N0BRAH]

im a finance major, just trying to pick which class to do next sem.
options are:
i) derivatives and risk management
ii) investment / portfolio management
iii) corporate finance
theyre all only offered in semester 2 and apparently doing the r&d class before corporate makes the latter easier so that is my current preference.
any thoughts?

[JacqueAttack]

UWO is garbage brah, and AEO status is just a money grab. You should have applied to Queens Commerce.

Also as a freshman you are extremely unlikely to land any type of PWM bulge bracket internship unless you are a) connected or b) network your ass off. If you chose to go with option b), prepare to spend a lot of money on taking buses to Toronto and back to London. I only know of one first year who successfully got a PWM internship without the help of family, and this guy literally went to Toronto every weekend to network and have coffee with Queens Commerce alumni, and eventually asked for an internship which he obviously got since he was a hustler.

I was accepted to QC, however in the end decided to go with Ivey due to external opinions that favoured Ivey's US recognition over QC's. My house is in Toronto, so if I were to land a PWM summer internship I doubt I would be commuting back to London often. You are right in the sense that QC dominates pre-ivey students in terms of recruitment and internships for the first 2 years. Are you a QC student/alumni?

[Jackhouseson]

Ivey/Rotman are the way to go for IB. You chose well, I don't know what that other guy was going on about.

[proconsul]

Ivey/Rotman are the way to go for IB. You chose well, I don't know what that other guy was going on about.

I was accepted to QC, however in the end decided to go with Ivey due to external opinions that favoured Ivey's US recognition over QC's. My house is in Toronto, so if I were to land a PWM summer internship I doubt I would be commuting back to London often. You are right in the sense that QC dominates pre-ivey students in terms of recruitment and internships for the first 2 years. Are you a QC student/alumni?

UWO is garbage brah, and AEO status is just a money grab. You should have applied to Queens Commerce.

Also as a freshman you are extremely unlikely to land any type of PWM bulge bracket internship unless you are a) connected or b) network your ass off. If you chose to go with option b), prepare to spend a lot of money on taking buses to Toronto and back to London. I only know of one first year who successfully got a PWM internship without the help of family, and this guy literally went to Toronto every weekend to network and have coffee with Queens Commerce alumni, and eventually asked for an internship which he obviously got since he was a hustler.

Hey OP, PM'ed you a while back but you didn't reply(I don't even remember what I asked lol).

I'll be attending UWO with AEO status to Ivey this upcoming september, what's the likelihood of landing an internship in PWM at a bulge bracket in Toronto as a freshman? Ultimately, I plan on working in NYC out of UG(albeit Ivey's OCR for US placement doesn't compare with American Ivys) but its unlikely that I would get any internships there first and second year.

Since you used to be Canadian, are you familiar with the VISA transfer policies of working in the US as a Canadian student? Are american placements more rare because of the complications involved?

Also what are some good resources to help me with the technicals involved? I've done a fair share of reading(moreso value investing) but have been trying to understand the technical side a bit better by familiarizing myself with Rosenbaum's Investment banking book, Macabacus, etc.

Truth be told, I'm asking for resources because a lot of it is over my head currently as I'm still in high school and haven't taken a formal course as of yet. I want to compete in finance/banking competitions as a freshman so I want to get a head start over my classmates. I probably won't get an analyst position at the investment club as a freshman, but I'm planning on putting my spare time towards reading and playing around with financial models and cutting back on the partying.

Thanks for doing this, appreciate it.

I have no idea how they translate for Canadian recruiting, but the only Canadian MBA program that is remotely on the radar in the US is Ivey.

Even then, Ivey grads are much rarer than most top 15 US business school grads. You may see one about as often as you see a Yale MPPM/MBA, which means not very often. The impression on Wall Street is that Ivey is significantly better than any other Canadian b-school, which means that an Ivey grad may get a look, whereas anyone else will probably not unless he networks effectively.

For what it's worth, I knew of one Ivey grad in my time (at Merrill Lynch), and he might have been some strange straight-from-undergrad-to-MBA animal. The only other Canadian MBAs I met were a McGill girl and a Toronto guy, and both transferred to the US from Canada with a Canadian bank rather than navigating the conventional recruiting process.

[psai]

thanks for the amazing thread OP!

anyway, i'm a rising junior at a non-target/semi-target (UNC) and i have a 3.33 GPA (although i will hopefully bring it up to a 3.5 after next semester)

my goal is to get into IB at an NYC-based BB (preferably M&A)
last summer (after freshman year) i interned at a small commercial real estate firm that owns/operates various multifamily developments (still work there part-time)
this summer i'm interning at a small local boutique investment bank here in NC that specializes in commercial real estate and handles deals anywhere between $2mil - $25mil

what should i start doing now in order to get an internship at a BB next summer?
would you say my credentials/experience are adequate?
would i have a higher chance of getting into the RE industry group at a BB versus some other group?
any other suggestions or advice you have for me?

at the end of this summer, once i complete my current internship and update my resume with some deals i've worked on, would it be fine to PM my resume to you so you can give me some feedback?

again, thanks so much for this thread. it's truly informative and your advice and experience are invaluable.

bumping my question for OP

[Patriots25]

What's up with the Secret Wall Street Frat group? Where it was reported they made fun of people who lost money in the crisis and laughed at people who lost stuff?


Also as a CS & Econ double major with a meh GPA but great business experience, how far will that help me in Wall Street?

[JacqueAttack]

Ivey/Rotman are the way to go for IB. You chose well, I don't know what that other guy was going on about.

I have no idea how they translate for Canadian recruiting, but the only Canadian MBA program that is remotely on the radar in the US is Ivey.

Even then, Ivey grads are much rarer than most top 15 US business school grads. You may see one about as often as you see a Yale MPPM/MBA, which means not very often. The impression on Wall Street is that Ivey is significantly better than any other Canadian b-school, which means that an Ivey grad may get a look, whereas anyone else will probably not unless he networks effectively.

For what it's worth, I knew of one Ivey grad in my time (at Merrill Lynch), and he might have been some strange straight-from-undergrad-to-MBA animal. The only other Canadian MBAs I met were a McGill girl and a Toronto guy, and both transferred to the US from Canada with a Canadian bank rather than navigating the conventional recruiting process.

Thanks for the reply, just wanted to make clear that this is for undergrad. This leads up to my other question- are Canadians who did an UG at a canadian school but obtained working exp in the US at a BB/EB at a disadvantage over those that went to ivy leagues in the US? Do admissions care a ton about where you went to school previously or are work experience and the ECs weighed more?