Goku training with 40 tons after transforming into a super saiyan
Superman lifting 200 quintillion tons with one hand
and 500,000 tons here
So there you have it folks.
Supes > Goku
08-26-2013, 10:23 AM #1
08-26-2013, 10:24 AM #2
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08-26-2013, 10:25 AM #3
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08-26-2013, 10:31 AM #12
Vegeta trained with 450x gravity in the Frieza saga. That made him feel like 27 tons and he could still move. Goku in the Buu saga is probably 100x times stronger than Vegeta was, yet he had to transform at 40 tons, does it make sense no definitely not, dbz is not consistent. Vegeta with a power level of 18,000 could destroy a Planet, what would happen if someone who's a milion times stronger even punches the ground, it should destroy the planet automatically but it doesn't work that way.
08-26-2013, 10:32 AM #13
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Assuming non-GT, I will use both characters maximum levels of power for this battle. Pre Crisis Superman vs SS3 Goku post Buu timeskip. I don't really need to explain how powerful Superman is, even mentioning that Superman was unable to beat Flash in a footrace.
So I will focus on Goku. I want to start out by saying, no one knows exactly how powerful SS3 Goku is, as power levels stop being officially tracked after the Frieza saga, where Goku is stated to have a PL of 150 million. If you want my opinion on how I think his power scales up till the end of GT, you need only look at my sig. I will not attempt to use my fanmade power levels in a matchup like this though.
First, I think it's important to define what a power level is. An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note.
It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely.
Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion.
Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself.
Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes.
How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed.
The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills.
Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds.
If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.
08-26-2013, 10:34 AM #14
Did I mention that Superman always holds back? He is totally against killing his enemies and never goes all out. Even in infinite crisis when Superboy Prime was killing everyone and various heroes suggested killin him, he was against it and held back a lot.
08-26-2013, 10:35 AM #15
I'm more impressed with that good ole' americahn steel beam that was applying 1000 brazzilion tons.
And that sheet of ice that's holding up 500,000 tons of a mass that should be plowing through it like me on OP's mom.
It's like when they show him juggling a planet and somehow he's touching it with his hands as though it's the size of a huge beach ball.
I'm gonna go make an anime about superman having a pen that weighs a trillion tons.
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08-26-2013, 10:35 AM #16
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08-26-2013, 10:38 AM #17
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08-26-2013, 10:46 AM #24
08-26-2013, 10:46 AM #25**Yellow Fever Crew**
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08-26-2013, 10:47 AM #26
Oh and before you idiots say all Goku needs is kryptonite to beat Supes, Superman has powered up so far into the sun that he actually became invulnerable to kryptonite. Guess you're gonna need to find a new weakness.
08-26-2013, 10:49 AM #27
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08-26-2013, 10:51 AM #30" Pain is Temporary "
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