Why is there so much hate towards feminism??

[royasa]

How is it possible that all you obviously intelligent people insist on seeing this as an 'either or' situation rather than an 'and' situation?

TEAL DEER VERSION
Discrimination against both sexes is ingrained in our culture. Women are discriminated against, and men are discriminated against, at different times for different reasons. Neither is ok, and they are tied together, so to fight for equality for one sex really is a fight for both.

Book version:

Yes, discrimination against women still exists. Any time you blame someone's gender for an unrelated issue, there you go. It's not as bad as it was, we can now vote, drive, own houses, get credit in our name, etc.. But here's an example - on the 'guy misc', someone told of a time he went to get a job and some girl showing her tits got the job instead. Was there a lot of complaining about the obviously biased hiring manager using discriminatory hiring practices? No! It was her fault for using what is perceived to be an advantage. That's really not fair.

BUT discrimination against males is a problem too, especially when it comes to domestic violence and rape. And yes, it is horribly wrong and unfair for men to be looked over or laughed at when they try to press sexual harassment charges, molestation charges, rape charges, whatever. It's criminal. And not only does it unfairly affect you guys, it effects ALL of us, because the less these crimes are equally prosecuted the less power we all have. It isn't fair that the tits get the tips. It isn't fair that you're expected to give up your seat, or that its harder for you to get true custody rights, and its harder for men to see their kids if their ex is uncooperative. Absolutely. I agree.


BOTH SEXES suffer from deep, culture based discrimination. But my belief in feminism - ie, that the sexes should be equal - means that I care about men's rights, too! That I think men should have an equal shot at custody, that women should equally be held responsible for domestic violence and rape and molestation, that they should be equally paid for an equal amount of work regardless of what body parts are exposed.

So, yes, men are absolutely treated unequally, but that doesn't mean that women aren't as well. We're both treated unequally in different situations in various points of our lives, and to try to discredit one sex's discrimination is counterproductive, because its all tied together. The mindset that hires a woman because of her t&a is the same mindset that will then ignore whatever competence she has and maybe not promote her. The mindset that makes it socially acceptable for guy A to skip out on his girlfriend when she gets pregnant as 'not my problem' is the same mindset that makes it hard for guy B to even see the kids he loves because 'well, men aren't that into parenting'. The mindset that makes women into frail little creatures who can't perform certain tasks is the same mindset keeping a man from rightly reporting sexual harassment from a woman.

A discussion about discrimination against women doesn't mean we don't acknowledge men get discriminated against, too. It just means we're talking about our own experiences right now. Just like taking about how important breathing is doesn't mean we're not aware that blood circulation is also necessary to life.

Honestly, I agree that both genders face dirscrimination and just because I believe in equal political, social and economical rights for women to that of men does not mean that I am one sided. I understand that guys face discrimination too and I don't discriminate them either just because I want to support women.

As I mentioned above about the status of women in military, rcmp, etc. - standing up for those women does not make me one sided just because I support them in that situation.
It's really easy to dismiss and easy label it as a "one way" perspective by claiming that well boo hoo men face discrimanation too, because that in no way helps with addressing the current issues IMO.


And regarding that other post #53, in some cultures there are ALOT of things that we can consider beyond horrible (e.g. infanticide, rape, executing homosexuals such as 13 year olds in iran, etc.) does that mean we should accept them just because it's acceptable in that culture??? I understand that we need to respect customs and traditions from cultures but I think there is a line in that.
Violence against another human being shouldn't be justified jsut because it's acceptable in other cultures.

[Alien5]

ITT being pro women is a good idea but when some people take it too far and they become anti-men it's quite silly. Isn't that a playground mentality? We gotta work together bros

People have called me a feminist and I take offense bc I'm definitely not a feminist. I was raised to get a good job and provide for myself but I'm not a feminist at all. In fact I would gladly quit my good paying job and cook and clean my life away if I found the right man. Traditional at heart because I know it works

[IBench5Pounds]

Because modern day feminism isn't about equality. It's about superiority. It blames all the issues on men without even considering that women can be responsible for them. My favourite was the "slut walk", women protested for the right to wear what they want without being judged and not being raped.

First off, people will judge everything you do. If I tattoo something on my face, people (even these hypocritical feminists) will judge no matter how great of a person I am, it's life. You made the choice understanding the social stigmas which you could gain from doing so, get over it, it's not like you didn't have a choice in what you could wear.

Second, no one deserves to be raped. But lettuce be cereal for a minute, you're trying to rationalise with rapists. It's like trying to rationalise with a hungry lion when you're being attacked. A stupid protest isn't gonna change that, these people are not rational.

Thirdly, "oh but a lot of people think that just because a woman dressed a certain way she was "asking for it"". Do these idiot feminists forget that we as humans have a responsibility to protect ourselves as best we can? I'm a barman, I get out of work every night and see half naked girls nearly passed out on the sidewalk next to the club and being picked up in cars by a bunch of sober lads. It's ****ing disgusting, but let's be honest, those girls don't do themselves any favours by getting in those states and being alone. Go out with groups of friends, be around people who will protect you and don't get too drunk. Pretty simple. It's like if I went into a bad neighborhood at 2 AM on a friday night and got stabbed. No, I didn't deserve to be stabbed, but I deff should've known better than putting myself at risk.

And lastly, the stupid logic of "objectification of women". We make women objects because they let us. Look online, there's plenty of naked sluts, or what, did we men use CGI to make them? The source of that issue is women, yet we men can't be involved with anything like that because we're misogynists and pigs. Even feminist protests are responsible, how about those topless protests which the feminists are a part of? "We get objectified by men but let's protest half naked herp derp". What Kind of 3rd grade satirical logic is that?

Overall this is why feminism of today is a joke. The list goes on and on but I don't wanna continue wasting time. Most feminists nowadays have a secret agenda against men or just have nothing better to do so their involvement in the movement gives them a sense of belonging in a group (Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). Women and men are equal in most modern societies. Please go.

Cliffs-
Fem logic:
Let's protest topless then complain about women objectification
Let's try to blame our tragic shortcomings on men
Let's rationalise with mentally unstable people
Don't want anyone to judge me yet I want to do things which I know people will judge me for

[Bookish]

Well, no, feminism is still about the equality of the sexes. The majority of self proclaimed, every day feminists don't blame men for everything, etc. - of course, the loudest nuts are the ones you hear the most. I'm not going to call all men 'Rapey *******s' because of some of the threads on misc, either. That would be stupid. You probably know a lot of every day, normal feminist women who just, you know, go to work and pay their rent and change their own oil because that's just life.

I've never said some of these drunk half naked girls aren't making terrible judgement calls. They are. But a terrible judgement call/poor decision making/idiocy still doesn't make it her fault she got raped. A bad decision never gives someone else the right to make a worse one. If you leave your laptop in the car, and someone breaks your window and takes it, you're still going to get a police report, and maybe file an insurance claim. The cop will tell you that you made a dumb decision, but he isn't going to doubt your entire story because you were stupid, or suggest that, maybe you WANTED the thief to take the computer? I mean, you put it out there and walked away, right? Are you sure things just didn't go a little too far and now you regret that your computer it gone? No, he's going to take the damn police report and tell you to be more careful next time. The fact that rape is treated any differently is disturbing. Male or female rape, I don't care.

And the problem with objectification is - the fact that some women enjoy objectification doesn't mean they all do, but for some reason it seems that some men take the 'women let us' idea and just go to town on it. If some chick does a cheesecake photo shoot and you use it as your background image, I don't really care. This doesn't mean you get to talk to my tits when I'm dressed completely normally without me getting pissed off or uncomfortable. I honestly don't care if men look at porn, hell, I look at porn. Put all the bikini posters you want in your personal space. Just don't let them become me, or any woman in general, I'm not exactly the sexually harassed type honestly. Women have tits, and they can't really be camouflaged or hidden, so let's just ignore them when talking to the woman in question. I know men look, but there's a difference between glancing at a hot girl when she walks by and admiring her figure, and blatantly talking to her tits when she asks you a question. That's really all most women are asking for - look me in the eye, treat me like a human when we're intacting, try not to be a jerk.

Cherry picking specific protests that align with your idea doesn't really do anything - again, most feminists are just quietly going about their lives, not picketing topless or screaming at strangers about their cell phone wallpaper. I also don't judge all vegans by what PETA does, or all Republicans by Rush Limbaugh, or all men by the posts on Misc. Don't judge all feminists by the crazy **** some of them do.

[acrawlingchaos]

ITT: a bunch of males argue about feminism in the female section of a bodybuilding forum...

Human rights is a fascinating topic.... no? I would personally rather discuss the topic here than in the misc.

YMMV.

I'm shocked that boys, who think they should be given the right to beat women if they don't get to be sexist anymore, don't understand/support feminism. Shocked.

I think you took that out of context just a bit.

And now the forever alone rapists and homophobes have joined the wife beaters to express how much they hate feminism. OP is getting a clear picture of what kind of winners are sexists.

I do not see feminism as a useful movement (at this time)... so which am I?

A wife beater?
Homophobe?
Rapist?

I would be interested in understanding how disagreeing with a charged political movement makes me sub-human.




Insulting and degrading men does the feminist cause no good, and is a clear indication that you have no interest in thoughtful dialogue.

[womanoid]

One doesn't have to commit crimes against someone substantially physically weaker to be sexist.

For instance, a beta male could spend years mansplaining and arguing with women on a women specific forum because it's easier for them to feel top dog than if they tried the same thing with men.

Or someone could pride themselves on FINALLY finding a subservient wife candidate.

Or they could just be completely ignorant to even the most basic inequalities in representation, autonomy and treatment of women because they have no informal or formal knowledge about it outside of sensationalized news articles Although, the lack of knowledge won't stop them from having an opinion because they're pompous enough to believe they're effortlessly omnipotent.

All these things can make someone a sexist who needs the status quo to be upheld to protect their inkling of power that they feel in the world.

[Aggressivebrah]

It's not necessarily feminism that people hate; it's the advocacy towards a spurious representation of feminism that people relentlessly reject with contempt. Many posters have brought up great, thought-provoking points: the advocacy for something beyond traditional equality among women and men, for example, has largely established a negative connotation for feminism — but it's not feminism. Moreover, the feminist marked by misandry, and who do advocate for something beyond equality, they provide a representation of feminism that is supposititious as a whole; namely, the radical views that diverge from wanting to establish genuine equality in all aspects; that perpetuate these demoralizing ideals (for men) as the general goals of feminism; and the overshadowing of feminist with good intentions with this rancor that is echoed ominously. The variant forms of feminism attempt to ultimately reach their respective goals; however, too much weight is given to the radical groups as opposed to the more practical subgroups of feminism. To put it differently, the radical feminist at the opposite end of the political spectrum are given too much credibility for reflecting upon the true nature of feminism — establishing equality among men and women.

[acrawlingchaos]

One doesn't have to commit crimes against someone substantially physically weaker to be sexist.

For instance, a beta male could spend years mansplaining and arguing with women on a women specific forum because it's easier for them to feel top dog than if they tried the same thing with men.

Or someone could pride themselves on FINALLY finding a subservient wife candidate.

Or they could just be completely ignorant to even the most basic inequalities in representation, autonomy and treatment of women because they have no informal or formal knowledge about it outside of sensationalized news articles Although, the lack of knowledge won't stop them from having an opinion because they're pompous enough to believe they're effortlessly omnipotent.

All these things can make someone a sexist who needs the status quo to be upheld to protect their inkling of power that they feel in the world.

This doesn't answer my question. Let me rephrase.

Why do you resort to ad-hominem attacks, when men disagree? You seem to think we are either not quite smart enough to understand what feminism is, or that we are not "man" enough to talk about this with other men (as if open dialogue between the sexes isn't needed).

What exactly is a beta male, and why are men interested and concerned about gender issues beta?




Sometimes I wonder if some of the women here understand the dynamics of feminism.

[royasa]

It's sad that majority of people think that this is what a feminist looks like:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...castle-008.jpg

OR this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xie4M5ZZIe...decoration.jpg

when in fact they also look like this:
http://feminspire.com/wp-content/upl...xj5o1_400.jpeg

[royasa]

ITT being pro women is a good idea but when some people take it too far and they become anti-men it's quite silly. Isn't that a playground mentality? We gotta work together bros

People have called me a feminist and I take offense bc I'm definitely not a feminist. I was raised to get a good job and provide for myself but I'm not a feminist at all. In fact I would gladly quit my good paying job and cook and clean my life away if I found the right man. Traditional at heart because I know it works

I think it's cute that you would gladly quit your job and put your heart out there.
I would gladly cook for my man too (someday when I get one) lol not because I am a woman and definitely NOT because it's a woman's job to cook but maybe because I'll love him enough to care??/ :/

But then what about other women? Should we expect them to be the ones to "gladly cook" ?
What about the girl who doesn't want to be traditional?

What about the policewoman who asked her boss that she needs to go on a maternity leave while pregnant and he tells her that she should learn to "keep your legs closed" > (such as former policewoman Janet Merlo)

What about those other ladies?

WHAT ABOUT THEIR SELF-ACTUALIZATION?

[fihe]

I think it's cute that you would gladly quit your job and put your heart out there.
I would gladly cook for my man too (someday when I get one) lol not because I am a woman and definitely NOT because it's a woman's job to cook but maybe because I'll love him enough to care??/ :/

But then what about other women? Should we expect them to be the ones to "gladly cook" ?
What about the girl who doesn't want to be traditional?

What about the policewoman who asked her boss that she needs to go on a maternity leave while pregnant and he tells her that she should learn to "keep your legs closed" > (such as former policewoman Janet Merlo)

What about those other ladies?

WHAT ABOUT THEIR SELF-ACTUALIZATION?

What about women who have no choice but to work because they so badly need the money? :\

[royasa]

What about women who have no choice but to work because they so badly need the money? :\

Lol are you being sarcastic?

[fihe]

Lol are you being sarcastic?

Nope, there are a lot of women in a bad financial situation.

[royasa]

Nope, there are a lot of women in a bad financial situation.

Yeah man but I think people in general have that issue... ?
You can always contribute to society or be a slave for employment :/

[diffrentiable]

miscer checking in.
The reason there is so much hate towards modern feminism is because a lot of what it calls for is not equality but rather special treatment for women.
e.g. "we want equality" but: you can't hit a women if she hits you,scholarships specifically for women, women get the children in a divorce, paying alimony etc...

I'm all for equality as long as its 100% equal rather than equal only when it is for our benefit. Personally I feel as if feminism has already achieved its purpose so I don't see why these hardcore feminists still exist.

[byebyebye]

READ THIS

1. Women are treated better in all aspects of the legal system. For instance, women receive lighter sentences and a higher chance of acquittal, simply for being women. http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/sentencing.pdf

2. Men are significantly more likely to be the victims of violent crime (of which rape is included) than women. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/gla...les/vsxtab.cfm

3. Despite domestic violence being equally committed by women, for the most part only male perpetrators are arrested: http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

4. The feminist definition of domestic violence has skewed arrest and prosecution philosophies, resulting in having mostly male batterers criminally pursued, and female batterers left alone. http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../304/kelly.pdf

5. It is legal to circumcise male babies against their will. In some places, laws have been passed which forbid any attempts to make male circumcision illegal. Meanwhile, female circumcision is completely illegal, even though some types of female circumcision are equivalent in harm to male circumcision, and other types (a symbolic prick to draw blood) are non-harmful.

6. Men comprise 95% of workplace deaths.

7. Men commit suicide at over triple the rate that women do.

8. The vast majority of prisoners are men.

9. Men are doing worse in all aspects of the educational system, from kindergarten to university. http://www.boysproject.net/statistics.html

10. Men who are falsely accused of rape can have their names published and their lives ruined even if they are not convicted or charged - their accuser is protected and is likely to face no punishment, or a light one. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...udge-says.html

11. Reproductive rights. Men have none. Simply read this story. http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comm..._women/c07omtc

12. Parental rights. Men have virtually none. See below.

A woman can name any man she likes as the father, he gets a letter in the mail, if he does not prove he isn't the father within 30 days—(suppose the letter gets lost by the USPS?)—he is now the father and must pay. He cannot contest it. http://reason.com/archives/2004/02/0...ice-by-default

A boy who is the victim of statutory rape must pay child support to his rapist. http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rig...gally-obscene/

A man who is raped while unconscious must likewise pay child support.

A man who fathers a child and wishes to take custody may have his child adopted out against his will and essentially kidnapped http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?p=19159

13. The majority of homeless are men.

14. Despite men's need being arguably greater than women, government spending to help women is 10 to 100 times greater than that to help men. That figure is unrelated to medical spending.

15. In 2009/2010 it was $1,516,460 toward men and $57,562,373 toward women. In 2010/2011 it was $3,740,800 toward men and $48,331,443 toward women. In 2008/2009 the province dedicated $561,360 toward men's resources and $98,983,236 toward women's resources. (figures are for British Columbia, Canada, but representative of Western society). http://www.reddit.com/r/OneY/comment...little/c20d8q8

16. Female-owned businesses get free government money for literally no reason other than being a woman (i.e. all other factors are equal, same size of business, same income, etc. etc. but the owner's gender is different = money or no money. http://reason.com/archives/2004/07/0...-woman-owned-b

17. On some airlines, men were banned from sitting next to kids on airplanes, simply because they were men. Why? Because men are ****philes, obviously. This ban remains on some airlines, such as Air New Zealand. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...y-for-men.html

18. Under a recent federal directive, men are convicted of rape in university campuses if the investigating board finds that the chances they committed the rape are at 50.00001% or greater. http://falserapearchives.blogspot.ca...error-and.html

19. The DOE policy in practice: Caleb Warner was accused of rape and expelled from the University of North Dakota, then his accuser was charged with filing a false report. He remains expelled as of June 2011. http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/6963/

20. Selective service. Enough said.

Pretty sure there's more, but I'm getting tired.

You will notice that I have not even touched "social discrimination" such as a group of women, on a popular talk show, cheering and laughing about a woman who cut off and destroyed a man's penis simply because he was divorcing her. Or gender stereotypes forcing men to work to their deaths, treating men as predators and ****philes, that sort of thing.



Or how women assault on male are socially encourage/accepted nowadays.



That is because I recognize that though social discrimination is bad, ultimately you still have choice and agency. People can mock you for being a male who likes sewing, but ultimately you can still choose to do it or not. But that pales in comparison to actual oppression, where you genuinely have no choice about the matter.

Note the numerous examples of governmental and legal discrimination against men.

These are examples of real discrimination, where there is literally nothing you can do about it. Not "discrimination" where women do more housework.

Most of the discrimination against men described here government-enforced discrimination, which is involuntary, non-consensual, and inescapable.

For instance, if you are a male victim of domestic violence, you cannot simply choose to walk into a government funded men's shelter - they don't exist. You cannot choose to call the pro-male police who fairly punish female batterers; there is only one police, and they are likely to arrest you if you do make the call.

In contrast, a lot of discrimination that feminists discuss is what I call societal discrimination, which is voluntary, consensual, and less significant.

Feminists state, as evidence of discrimination, that women do more unpaid housework due to societal norms. Even if that is true, given that surveys are biased and do not include male work like car repair, exterior house repair, etc. that is not discrimination since women are choosing to do more housework. They are choosing to be involved with men who do less housework, and choosing to tolerate such a state. They make that choice freely, without coercion. That is why it is not discrimination.

Now, do you still think that male privilege is so great, female privilege is non-existent, and that women are oppressed and men are privileged? If so, you're in denial.

[byebyebye]

[byebyebye]

imagine if the list was "girls become women when they"

[repsDTGdaily]

And now the forever alone rapists and homophobes have joined the wife beaters to express how much they hate feminism. OP is getting a clear picture of what kind of winners are sexists.

You have a delusional thought on who disagrees with modern-day feminism. You think only the men who want to hit or rape women disagree with it?

[footmenrow]

I think byebyebye got it right.

Now, time to GTFO of this place, before I get Negged into oblivion

[retro36]

Well, no, feminism is still about the equality of the sexes.

No it's not and western women are complete fools.

[diffrentiable]

Well, no, feminism is still about the equality of the sexes.

you are delusional as fuk cuz

[oldskooler]

The simple answer is there are two types of feminists- equality and gender feminists. Most people do not have a problem with the equality feminist. The issues lies with the gender feminists. Gender feminists are the ones who have twisted feminism to be the espousing of men as evil and women as victims and morally superior.

http://avpd0nmmng.wordpress.com/2011...nder-feminism/

[Artemis00]

The simple answer is there are two types of feminists- equality and gender feminists. Most people do not have a problem with the equality feminist. The issues lies with the gender feminists. Gender feminists are the ones who have twisted feminism to be the espousing of men as evil and women as victims and morally superior.

http://avpd0nmmng.wordpress.com/2011...nder-feminism/

I agree. And I like the idea of breaking it up into two different sects cause there is a big difference between the two.

[womanoid]

You have a delusional thought on who disagrees with modern-day feminism. You think only the men who want to hit or rape women disagree with it?

I was commenting on the people that were commenting. The ones that were talking about how they think it should be okay to hit women and rape minors. Thinking, delusional or not, wasn't required as much as observing.

[repsDTGdaily]

I was commenting on the people that were commenting. The ones that were talking about how they think it should be okay to hit women and rape minors. Thinking, delusional or not, wasn't required as much as observing.

Don't think i've ever seen anyone say it should be ok to hit women and rape minors. Only thing I've seen said is that if a woman thinks it's ok to hit a man or kick him in the balls, then they should expect some form of physical retaliation. Don't bite off more than you can chew in that case. I wouldn't hit a woman back but I won't feel bad for a woman if she hits a guy and gets hit back, given the circumstances.

[acrawlingchaos]

I was commenting on the people that were commenting. The ones that were talking about how they think it should be okay to hit women and rape minors. Thinking, delusional or not, wasn't required as much as observing.

Don't think i've ever seen anyone say it should be ok to hit women and rape minors. Only thing I've seen said is that if a woman thinks it's ok to hit a man or kick him in the balls, then they should expect some form of physical retaliation. Don't bite off more than you can chew in that case. I wouldn't hit a woman back but I won't feel bad for a woman if she hits a guy and gets hit back, given the circumstances.

This.

You went out of your way to distort others words, and blatantly degraded men without cause. Even if I did support feminism, why would I support a feminist whose only contribution to the conversation is derogatory comments about men?



I'm still curious.... what exactly is a beta male?

[Bookish]

Byebyebye just totally missed the point.

No s**t men are discriminated against. No one is saying they aren't. But that doesn't mean that women are ALSO not discriminated against. If I had the time and energy, I could spam the board with lists of crap that affects women more, like human trafficking, domestic violence (a problem for men, but more abused are women), reproductive rights (not just abortion, did you know in some places women need signed permission slips from their husbands to get their tubes tied? Crazy) and then all sorts of crazy individual items against women that probably don't signify any ingrained discrimination but were nuts enough to make the news.

Just because men face discrimination doesn't mean women also don't experience discrimination. Fact!

[repsDTGdaily]

Byebyebye just totally missed the point.

No s**t men are discriminated against. No one is saying they aren't. But that doesn't mean that women are ALSO not discriminated against. If I had the time and energy, I could spam the board with lists of crap that affects women more, like human trafficking, domestic violence (a problem for men, but more abused are women), reproductive rights (not just abortion, did you know in some places women need signed permission slips from their husbands to get their tubes tied? Crazy) and then all sorts of crazy individual items against women that probably don't signify any ingrained discrimination but were nuts enough to make the news.

Just because men face discrimination doesn't mean women also don't experience discrimination. Fact!

So you want laws that favor one group more than the other, rather than unbiased laws. And isn't it the same permission for men who get vasectomies?

If nazi-fems had their way, all men would be required to supplement estrogen. And then you have those who think a woman's regret should mean a male be convicted of rape.

[Bookish]

So you want laws that favor one group more than the other, rather than unbiased laws. And isn't it the same permission for men who get vasectomies?

If nazi-fems had their way, all men would be required to supplement estrogen. And then you have those who think a woman's regret should mean a male be convicted of rape.

No? Where did I day that at all? I want laws to favor all people equally. That includes men not having to pay alimony forever, for men getting the rights to their child should that want them, and recourses for men falsely accused of rape being more available to them (they're there, but little resources go towards reminding men that they're there and helping them access them. ).

No, men can go get vasectomies without any sort of permission whatsoever. That's why I mentioned it. And if men DID need permission, that's also completely unfair and something that needs to be changed. Your body should be your body.

Rape is a whole clusterf*** that discussing here won't help - men AND women get totally shafted by it. Men do sometimes rape. Women do sometimes use rape as revenge. Then there's the whole grey area of 'regret rape', yes than no rape, and how it's prosecuted. I don't even know, it just needs to get fixed for both sexes.

I've not seen any women in this thread state that they wanted men to be subservient or lesser than them. I worry just as much about 'nazi males' who want me to be handed from father to husband, have kids, stay home, and 'serve' my husband, then my sons, as part of my 'essential womanhood' as you do about 'nazi fems' who randomly castrate men (this happened. Tied him to a tree and did it, wtf). It's frustrating - I've been nothing but even handed, acknowledging guy's issues with discrimination, stressing my belief in equality...and then somehow that gets turned into my wanting laws favoring one group over another? It makes me wonder if you're reading what I'm writing.