5/3/1: Who Was CNS Version. Guaranteed amazing results.

[Broscientist88]

Bump because I wanna be post #60.

And this routine has potential.

Only 9 more to go

In on 3rd page.

[RT1957]

In your version do you skip the 5X10 work?

[roflver]

Starting this today hopefully.. with the accessories do I do them like the compounds? (such as with deads, 65%x3x5 75%x3x5 85%x3x5) etc but do I just do three sets total with 65 75 85 or.. what?

[jasticus]

I would like to try this routine. I am tired of my upper lower split.

[wannabebigrick]

In your version do you skip the 5X10 work?

by the looks of it yes he does, although you can just add it in and take some accessory work out and tbh i think the BBB method is 1 of the best ways to perfroms 5/3/1

Starting this today hopefully.. with the accessories do I do them like the compounds? (such as with deads, 65%x3x5 75%x3x5 85%x3x5) etc but do I just do three sets total with 65 75 85 or.. what?

at first glance i though i knew what your question was but now its a bit confusing. you dont do 65%x3x5 75%x3x5 85%x3x5, you do 1 set at each persentage e.g. set 1 @ 75%, set 2 @ 80%, set 3 @ 85%. (each set is 5 reps, but this is for the first wave only)

for the accessory work use what ever ranges you want, it is not based of percentages.



seriously if you, or anyone else for that matter, does not understand how to program the actual 5/3/1 work for compound lifts you have to read the books or at the very least read the articles on t-nation written by the creator of the routine (Jim Wendler)

[roflver]

Oh okay, I was a bit pre occupied while reading through it and was in a rush to leave the house. Thanks for the explanation mate.

[Rabie72]

In your version do you skip the 5X10 work?

the is 5x10 is the a strength template, he's obviously doing a bodybuilding template.

[Austraya]

So with this, would you do the Bench/OHP/Squat/Deadlift first up and then complete all of the iso's?

[wannabebigrick]

the is 5x10 is the a strength template, he's obviously doing a bodybuilding template.

how is 5 sets of 10 a strength template lol, wendler used it simply as a means to get more time practicing the main lift but to pack on some much needed mass

[wannabebigrick]

So with this, would you do the Bench/OHP/Squat/Deadlift first up and then complete all of the iso's?

yes, 5/3/1 is based on those 4 main lifts, you do those lifts first and then everything else is optional (heck you don't even have to do anything else after the main lift if you don't want to)

[geneswest]

Thanks for other people answering the questions for me.
This is not solely a bodybuilding routine, it's a strength and size routine, easy stength gains because you go into the session knowing what to hit and you will progress every 2 weeks on the main lifts.
Accessory work, progress by 2.5kg/5lb every session or two. Work in the 6-15 rep range (6-8 compounds, 8-15 isos).

Well, I'll inform you my progress in 2 weeks.
Cycle 1, on deadlifts I hit 175kg x 10 and was a max effort.
Tonight, 2 weeks later, I hit 178.5kg x 12. So an extra 3.5kg and 2 reps. Check my log for my full workout and video.

[AlexRyan1]

when starting out if you feel like you can add 5kg to bench and 7.5kg to sqt/dl should you go for it or just stick to 2.5/5?

[rjohndrew13]

when starting out if you feel like you can add 5kg to bench and 7.5kg to sqt/dl should you go for it or just stick to 2.5/5?

Wendler addresses this:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._pure_strength

[Broscientist88]

Wendler addresses this:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._pure_strength

But this isnt wendler's.

[Broscientist88]

when starting out if you feel like you can add 5kg to bench and 7.5kg to sqt/dl should you go for it or just stick to 2.5/5?

Id say no, just stick with the progression rate detailed, you get to max out on your last set, aswell as go hard on all the accessory work so dont worry about not doing enough work.

[geneswest]

Stick to 2.5kg for upper and 5kg for lower.
If by the 4th cycle you can still rep out the 5+ set for more than 10, 3+ for more than 6 and the 1+ set for more than 3, you can progress slightly more onto the fourth cycle, but it doesn't really matter, that will just cause you to hit a plateau sooner.

[95Luke]

Stick to 2.5kg for upper and 5kg for lower.
If by the 4th cycle you can still rep out the 5+ set for more than 10, 3+ for more than 6 and the 1+ set for more than 3, you can progress slightly more onto the fourth cycle, but it doesn't really matter, that will just cause you to hit a plateau sooner.

Wait.. From my understanding, the first week you do 3x5 of the compounds 1 at 65% of TM, 1 at 75% of TM an 1 at 85% of TM. Then the second week you do 3x3 at 70%,80% and 90% of TM. On the third week where it says 5, 3, 1 do you only do that amount? Or do you do as many as you can?

[wannabebigrick]

Wait.. From my understanding, the first week you do 3x5 of the compounds 1 at 65% of TM, 1 at 75% of TM an 1 at 85% of TM. Then the second week you do 3x3 at 70%,80% and 90% of TM. On the third week where it says 5, 3, 1 do you only do that amount? Or do you do as many as you can?

you have your percentages wrong, wave 1 is 75%, 80%, 85%. wave 2 is 80%, 85%, 90%. then on wave 3 you do 85% x 5 reps, 90% x 3 reps, 95% x 1+ reps

only on the last set do you do an AMRAP

[wannabebigrick]

But this isnt wendler's.

yes it is, if you use the 5/3/1 method for the main lifts you are doing wendler's. wendler himself says the accessory work is complently optional and should be specific for you, though he usually only advocates 3-4x a week training he has laid out a template called the frequency project, which as you can tell is very high frequency and actually has you training 24 days out of 4 weeks.

tl;dr this is still wendlers, all the op has done is shown us his assistance work and used a higher frequency model

[DirtyTrickster]

Current Maxes

Bench = 315x1
Squat = 275x5
Deadlift = 330x5
OHP = 155x5

I'll see you in 6 months.

[Sneakysneakeh]

Definitely giving this a try immediately, looks similar to a push/pull program but much better for focusing on strength and still maintaining those accessory exercises. Thanks for the good idea! What do you do on the 5th and 6th days, just what ever you feel like working on a second time for the week?

[bravo96]

Current Maxes

Bench = 315x1
Squat = 275x5
Deadlift = 330x5
OHP = 155x5

I'll see you in 6 months.

looking forward to seeing this. wondered how someone with a high lift (in your case bench) would go with the increased frequency and no dealoads.

[Pexium]

Been posted in the workout programs section. I have also updated it, had made an alternative way to run it for beginners.

If you are a beginner, and are looking for even faster progression, I would recommend doing bench and OHP on the same day. This means you will progress every ~1.5 weeks. This is how this format would look like:

DAY 1- Deadlifts

Accessory Work:
Barbell Rows (3 sets).
Pull Ups (3 sets).
Cable Rows (3 sets).
DB/Barbell Curl (3 sets).
Hammer Curl (3 sets).

DAY 2- Bench Press
OHP

Accessory Work:
Incline DB Press (2 sets).
DB Lateral Raises (3 sets)
Close Grip Bench Press (2 sets).
Tricep Pushdowns (3 sets).
Face Pulls (3 sets)

DAY 3- Squats

Accessory Work:
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (3 sets).
ATG High Bar Squat (2 sets)
Leg Extensions (3 sets).
Calf Raises (3 sets).
Leg Curls (2 sets).

This is basically a Push/Pull/Legs routine, but with 5/3/1 progression, with more frequency than original 5/3/1, and no deloads. I do not recommend this alteration for intermediates/advanced lifters as the progression may be too quick and you could stall quicker, and your OHP will suffer being after bench press.

Literally the exact same routine as mine: same split, progression scheme, exercise choice (except I add cable flies on chest day after inclined db bench) rep range and frequency. Being on something very similar for the past 5 months, I highly recommend this!

A couple notes:
-soreness=/=overtraining
-Some people feel that using their training max for calculating working weight (90% of actual max) is too slow and easy in the beginning, but resist the urge to use your actual max for calculating working weight (or else you will stall out WAY sooner)

[95Luke]

you have your percentages wrong, wave 1 is 75%, 80%, 85%. wave 2 is 80%, 85%, 90%. then on wave 3 you do 85% x 5 reps, 90% x 3 reps, 95% x 1+ reps

only on the last set do you do an AMRAP

Err no?

Okay Wendler's 5/3/1 is basically a program that's based on the big 4: Squat, Bench, Deadlift and OHP.
Each training day consists of one of the following.
In the first "week", you do 3 sets of 5 at 65%, 75%, 85% of your training max. (TM is 90% of actual max).
In the second "week", you do 3 sets of 3 at 70%, 80%, 90% of your training max.
In the third "week", you do a set of 5 at 75%, a set of 3 at 85% and single at 95%.

Clearly says 65,75 and 85. But thanks for clearing the reps up for the final week, I actually remember reading that a while ago I just forgot.

[Broscientist88]

Couple of qs:
The first couple of weeks are going to be very light, should the accessory work be kept light also or can we train normally after the 5/3/1 set?
Can this routine be run year round or would you recommend switching to 4 days a week (normal 5/3/1) if switching to a cutting phase down the line? thanks.

[wannabebigrick]

Err no?



Clearly says 65,75 and 85. But thanks for clearing the reps up for the final week, I actually remember reading that a while ago I just forgot.

****, when i typed those percentages out i was looking at a beginner mod of this where the weights are closer together percentage wise, my bad

[geneswest]

Couple of qs:
The first couple of weeks are going to be very light, should the accessory work be kept light also or can we train normally after the 5/3/1 set?
Can this routine be run year round or would you recommend switching to 4 days a week (normal 5/3/1) if switching to a cutting phase down the line? thanks.

Go heavy on accessory work for the first few cycles.
And yeah do it for as long as possible IMO. Until you stall, then go back a cycle or two. Then progress forward again. Do your best while cutting, you can still gain strength while cutting, however if you're struggling with recovery, go back to 4 days a week.

[Broscientist88]

Go heavy on accessory work for the first few cycles.
And yeah do it for as long as possible IMO. Until you stall, then go back a cycle or two. Then progress forward again. Do your best while cutting, you can still gain strength while cutting, however if you're struggling with recovery, go back to 4 days a week.

Yeah i was thinking this because i mean.. Its just like 4 ON 1 OFF split, just using 5/3/1 progression on the big 4. Loads of people to a 3 on 1 off while cutting so i would assume a 4 on 1 off would be similar if not easier because of the decrease in frequency.. Anyway wont be cutting for a while haha.

[Polyphemus]

In on this

[xNerve]

Hey genewest, or anyone experienced, what are your thoughts on having 2 separate pull days? One focused on deadlifts with 5/3/1 scheme and the other on bb row? Still would be doing deads 1 or more a cycle and at the least once a week. Thoughts?