Layne Norton sueing Ice Cream fitness?

[MASSter]

I know Layne personally. He is completely natty, never even dabbled in AAS, & never even seriously considered it. It's not even an option for him. Certain people see being natty as a personal badge of honor, and a challenge that they're willing to take on - they truly get intrinsic gratification from that. Also, Layne would not ever have to depend on being supraphysiologically huge & lean to make a good living at what he does. He already has the track record in terms of academics & contests, as well as a good reputation for knowing his sh!t. It's silly to think mounds of cash ride on his physique. But beyond all this, Layne has been training consistently for over a decade, and he does not surpass the published "natural limits" of fat free mass index, nor does he surpass Casey Butt's calculations of natural limits. People who vehemently accuse Layne of being on AAS genuinely make me LOL.

While I respect that you know Layne personally and are pretty confident he is natural, unless you are with him 24/7 you can't say with absolute certainty he is. He is a trainer and also makes money off other fitness ventures including Scivation. I don't have an opinion either way regarding his natty status but I do believe he would benefit professionally from being more muscular(naturally or not). Now if you tried to convince me that YOU were natty......that's when I call BS.

I got asked once at the gym if im not natty... fulking FTW

true story lol

Sounds like a tall tale.

[sawoobley]

If mounds of cash don't lie in his physique or how he built it, then what's he really accomplishing by suing icecream fitness? Personal gratification? We all know Jason DB went off the deep end, but if he's really spending all that money on a lawyer to sue Jason on principle, I'm at a loss. I think LN really does have a lot to gain from being muscular and strong. I don't know him personally, I guess I'm just cynical after finding out Rob Riches wasn't natty either. JK on Rob Riches.

brb, spending 10K+ to sue a man with no money or assets. lol

Layne seems like a cool guy though. Inspirational to say the least. Mad respect on all his life accomplishments. Impressive brah is impressive.

[MASSter]

brb, spending 10K+ to sue a man with no money or assets. lol

Layne seems like a cool guy though. Inspirational to say the least. Mad respect on all his life accomplishments. Impressive brah is impressive.

When your reputation as a trainer/businessman with BCAA supplementation etc. is on the line, it is well worth the money to protect his reputablility.

[gymjunki3]

While I respect that you know Layne personally and are pretty confident he is natural, unless you are with him 24/7 you can't say with absolute certainty he is. He is a trainer and also makes money off other fitness ventures including Scivation. I don't have an opinion either way regarding his natty status but I do believe he would benefit professionally from being more muscular(naturally or not). Now if you tried to convince me that YOU were natty......that's when I call BS.

Sounds like a tall tale.

I went from 58kgs to 73kgs with a shirt on i looked like i had gained some mass at the end of my fulk.
So to the guy who asked me it looked like i was on cell tech lol I went home to fab straight after.

[Robernaut]

I am blogging about the alleged case from an objective point of view, explaining the law as it applies to the case under English law and I'll pop along to the high court if it ever gets that far. I only put the blog up yesterday so it's not looking purdy yet, but I've covered the allegation of extortion and on overview of the law - who needs to prove what, etc.

As a lot of the information is _unusually_ in the public domain, so there is a fair bit of commentary to come.

I don't follow either mans work, so it's an impartial, endeavoring to be objective review. A lot of the things being said or assumed about the law and how it applies are a bit off the mark.

This was inevitable at some point. If it wasn't Layne vs. Jason it was going to be someone. There's a lot of attacking in the fitness industry.

If you're interested the blog is at sportsmedialaw. wordpress . com

[gymjunki3]

I am blogging about the alleged case from an objective point of view, explaining the law as it applies to the case under English law and I'll pop along to the high court if it ever gets that far. I only put the blog up yesterday so it's not looking purdy yet, but I've covered the allegation of extortion and on overview of the law - who needs to prove what, etc.

As a lot of the information is _unusually_ in the public domain, so there is a fair bit of commentary to come.

I don't follow either mans work, so it's an impartial, endeavoring to be objective review. A lot of the things being said or assumed about the law and how it applies are a bit off the mark.

This was inevitable at some point. If it wasn't Layne vs. Jason it was going to be someone. There's a lot of attacking in the fitness industry.

If you're interested the blog is at sportsmedialaw. wordpress . com

Strong 1st post.

[necon76]

I am blogging about the alleged case from an objective point of view, explaining the law as it applies to the case under English law and I'll pop along to the high court if it ever gets that far. I only put the blog up yesterday so it's not looking purdy yet, but I've covered the allegation of extortion and on overview of the law - who needs to prove what, etc.

As a lot of the information is _unusually_ in the public domain, so there is a fair bit of commentary to come.

I don't follow either mans work, so it's an impartial, endeavoring to be objective review. A lot of the things being said or assumed about the law and how it applies are a bit off the mark.

This was inevitable at some point. If it wasn't Layne vs. Jason it was going to be someone. There's a lot of attacking in the fitness industry.

If you're interested the blog is at sportsmedialaw. wordpress . com

Nice write up, thanks for that. Good to get the details of how English law applies to this.


For the TL;DR's out there:

Unless Blaha has substantive proof of his slanderous claims against Layne, he will be done for defamation. The most interesting part to me is that Layne does not even have to prove them to be false, the burden of proof lies solely on Jason. Lol he's fukked.


People can say & think what they want about Layne & his motivations for this, but it will serve as a warning to the rest of the turds out there running their mouths & dragging people's reputations through the mud for a few extra views on their sh!tty little channels/blogs. I think it's great.

[gymjunki3]

Nice write up, thanks for that. Good to get the details of how English law applies to this.


For the TL;DR's out there:

Unless Blaha has substantive proof of his slanderous claims against Layne, he will be done for defamation. The most interesting part to me is that Layne does not even have to prove them to be false, the burden of proof lies solely on Jason. Lol he's fukked.

he is going to sue the trousers off him, because in England they wear trousers.

[Gxp23]

he is going to sue the trousers off him, because in England they wear trousers.

Yea, I remember we had an American gym teacher ask us to get our pants (Underwear for younger people) luckily I watched a lot of tv and knew what she meant.

[HealingHands8]

Blaha will be so poor afterwards he will have to sell bagpuss to raise funds

[psychodiver9]

Blaha will be so poor afterwards he will have to sell bagpuss to raise funds

Is layne going to get his government check?

[necon76]

Is layne going to get his government check?

Maybe not, but his & Jason's solicitors will be getting a portion of it for a very long time.

[gymjunki3]

Yea, I remember we had an American gym teacher ask us to get our pants (Underwear for younger people) luckily I watched a lot of tv and knew what she meant.

lol my first day at school in oz was a massive culture shock. Mum packed me a massive kebab sandwich looked like a RPG.

The bell went and all the kids pulled out their food cut up in nice little triangles i pulled this thing out of my bag, kids were looking at me like WTF are you doing. 15mins later the bell goes then i'm like "WTF?" only 15mins? i thought we escaped dictatorship little did i know that was only "recess"

got home that day mum asked "what did the other kids eat?" i told her it looked like they were eating toys.

it was 100's n 1000's with butter and bread.

[Gxp23]

The fuk? ^

[gymjunki3]

The fuk? ^

triggered by your story of cultural difference at school.

carry on.

[Gxp23]

triggered by your story of cultural difference at school.

carry on.

Yea i know, I am just shocked at the 15 min lunch time haha, we used to get an hour lol. 3 generations of my family are over there, need to go visit.

Its amazing how different places are, and how accurate they can/cannot be through media etc..

[gymjunki3]

skip to 2:50 WTF?

[gymjunki3]

Yea i know, I am just shocked at the 15 min lunch time haha, we used to get an hour lol. 3 generations of my family are over there, need to go visit.

Its amazing how different places are, and how accurate they can/cannot be through media etc..

we still got 30mins or 40mins for lunch, which reminds me an English friend once invited me over for tea once i ate at home before i went, then his mum brings out all this food for us to eat, I was like WTF is wrong with this country?

[Gxp23]

we still got 30mins or 40mins for lunch, which reminds me an English friend once invited me over for tea once i ate at home before i went, then his mum brings out all this food for us to eat, I was like WTF is wrong with this country?

More so In England I think than the UK as a whole, it is a kinda sterio type, more the older generation, tea, generally means dinner, time for my tea= its time for my evening meal, or in some cases its literally the drink tea, with a lot of cakes lol.

[necon76]

lol my first day at school in oz was a massive culture shock. Mum packed me a massive kebab sandwich looked like a RPG.

The bell went and all the kids pulled out their food cut up in nice little triangles i pulled this thing out of my bag, kids were looking at me like WTF are you doing. 15mins later the bell goes then i'm like "WTF?" only 15mins? i thought we escaped dictatorship little did i know that was only "recess"

got home that day mum asked "what did the other kids eat?" i told her it looked like they were eating toys.

it was 100's n 1000's with butter and bread.

[gymjunki3]

^ I cried when i 1st saw that 5hit was real life.

[gymjunki3]

More so In England I think than the UK as a whole, it is a kinda sterio type, more the older generation, tea, generally means dinner, time for my tea= its time for my evening meal, or in some cases its literally the drink tea, with a lot of cakes lol.

now I know why i was so confused.

[Gxp23]

now I know why i was so confused.

Now you know your friend was a lot more friendly and generous too.

[gymjunki3]

Now you know your friend was a lot more friendly and generous too.

his mum had nice boobs.

[Gxp23]

his mum had nice boobs.

Lol, isnt your wife starting to worry lol.

[naturalguy]

If anyone thinks Layne is not natural then you seriously don't have a clue about gear use. Jason lost all credibility with that video and just proved that he doesn't know what he is talking about. Any yokel can put up youtube videos and claim to be an "expert".

[snorkelman]

Robernaut, I have a few questions about the link you posted: http://sportsmedialaw.wordpress.com/

I assume that the Letter of Claim is the English version of a Complaint (the USA version of a civil lawsuit), is that correct?

I am not familiar with that, as I want to make sure this is not just what lawyers do in America, what is called a "demand letter" where the lawyer writes a letter before filing a lawsuit and threatens to file a lawsuit, but demands an amount to settle pre-filing (of the lawsuit).

Assuming that this letter is the English version of a lawsuit, can you link it?

Does the Letter of Claim identify the alleged basis for defamation? It seems from reading your write up that there are two or three basis:
1. Jason's statement that BCAA supplementation might not be necessary in athletes who already consume adequate protein (I really cannot imagine that this is a basis for defamation);
2. Layne's research is inherently biased because of Layne Norton’s association with a supplement company; and
3. Jason publicly referring to £15,000 in costs as amounting to "extortion."

Is there anything based on Jason alleging that Layne is on gear? To me, that seems like the only viable basis for a defamation lawsuit.

For what it's worth I have to wonder whether the £15,000 really are legitimate costs or whether they are a settlement offer. I find it unlikely that there can really be that much in costs for writing a single letter. I can tell you one thing, in the USA, I would not bet that many judges would find it reasonable costs for drafting a Complaint and claiming you incurred £15,000 to watch a couple youtube videos. Perhaps in England you can have no basis in reality, but that is ludicrous to think that is reasonable for filing a lawsuit. It doesn't take a massive team of lawyers a bunch of hours to put together a standard defamation claim.

[Terrimonas]

Robernaut, I have a few questions about the link you posted: http://sportsmedialaw.wordpress.com/

I assume that the Letter of Claim is the English version of a Complaint (the USA version of a civil lawsuit), is that correct?

I am not familiar with that, as I want to make sure this is not just what lawyers do in America, what is called a "demand letter" where the lawyer writes a letter before filing a lawsuit and threatens to file a lawsuit, but demands an amount to settle pre-filing (of the lawsuit).

Assuming that this letter is the English version of a lawsuit, can you link it?

Does the Letter of Claim identify the alleged basis for defamation? It seems from reading your write up that there are two or three basis:
1. Jason's statement that BCAA supplementation might not be necessary in athletes who already consume adequate protein (I really cannot imagine that this is a basis for defamation);
2. Layne's research is inherently biased because of Layne Norton’s association with a supplement company; and
3. Jason publicly referring to £15,000 in costs as amounting to "extortion."

Is there anything based on Jason alleging that Layne is on gear? To me, that seems like the only viable basis for a defamation lawsuit.

For what it's worth I have to wonder whether the £15,000 really are legitimate costs or whether they are a settlement offer. I find it unlikely that there can really be that much in costs for writing a single letter. I can tell you one thing, in the USA, I would not bet that many judges would find it reasonable costs for drafting a Complaint and claiming you incurred £15,000 to watch a couple youtube videos. Perhaps in England you can have no basis in reality, but that is ludicrous to think that is reasonable for filing a lawsuit. It doesn't take a massive team of lawyers a bunch of hours to put together a standard defamation claim.

The letter is Pre-Action letter of claim to give Bwahaha a means of settling before litigation. The pdf is on his FB page.

[Robernaut]

1. Jason's statement that BCAA supplementation might not be necessary in athletes who already consume adequate protein (I really cannot imagine that this is a basis for defamation);
2. Layne's research is inherently biased because of Layne Norton’s association with a supplement company; and
3. Jason publicly referring to £15,000 in costs as amounting to "extortion."

There is a lot more to it than I have got around to so far. But to answer your questions...

1) No, I don't believe it is, nor does it appear to be a complaint. Saying that BCAA usage may not be necessary in athletes with adequate protein seems to be a legitimate interpretation of the research that many experts take. The complaint is a little different from that, but you have gone on to the in the next question.

2) That appears to be one of the complaints (that Jason alleges that Layne's research is bias). It will be defamatory if it causes the reputation of a person to be lowered in the estimation of right thinking members of the community. Jason will have to prove that the research is bias, either factually or that his opinion in that regard is based on fact. I've considered the facts as we know them at present in a little more detail in the blog, without giving my opinion on the outcome If however the court decides that the allegation of bias is not factually correct or based on facts which would reasonably support that opinion, it is likely to be defamatory in my view (that's not the same as giving my opinion on the outcome, because I am not making a judgment on the facts). It is one thing to say that research may be treated with a bit of skepticism if it is supported by a commercial interest (pretty much trite I think in this field) and it is another to say that research is bias without any basis for that (ie, if it has not been funded by a commercial interest). You'll have to consider the facts to make up your own mind on that though. It's going to be a question that's decided in court.

3) The question of costs is separate to the case. There are numerous allegations made and I will be going over each one in turn as well as other important questions. I've just covered whether Jason might be liable for his comments directed at Lame Norstrom.

Everyone hates solicitors costs and costs in defamation cases are I believe under review presently. Generally in litigated cases, and even in non litigated contentious work, a successful claimant won't recover all their solicitors costs.

One thing to bear in mind - as much as everyone hates solicitors costs - is that the longer the battle goes on the more it costs. and defamation cases can get quite costly.

[MASSter]

Blaha will be so poor afterwards he will have to sell bagpuss to raise funds

Bagpuss porn. Bagpuss does Barbie. Bagpuss does Dora The Explorer. Bagpuss does Barney.