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  1. #1
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Arrow Moving forward in Reverse: Devils post-show recovery thread

    Reversing out of low body fat





    So you've just stepped off stage and had the traditional post-contest binge, you also have great expectations of mass gain, gym progress and total body recovery. Having spent the last 12-20 weeks cutting down and getting shredded, now's the time to eat and get huge right? Your body is primed and ready to put on lean muscle and stay lean correct?

    Well this is not always the case..

    As you've no doubt experienced over the last few months there has been times where your weight has stalled and you've had to either reduce calories or increase cardio. You've pushed your body to the limits of low body fat and your body has adapted. These adaptations may have happened over a large percentage of your prep, especially in the last few weeks.

    Now the show has finished and you've celebrated, eaten your pizza/chocolate, and woke up the next morning feeling bloated. It's time to put on mass right? your first instincts now that you can "grow" are usually to increase calories and reduce cardio.

    So you're already in a surplus from the binge the night before, you increase calories and drop those long cardio sessions, maybe even continue to binge. You may get trapped in the belief that food = muscle when you're coming up from low body fat, but this is incorrect. After restricting your body of it's essential needs your body is going to prioritize FAT storage not MUSCLE gain.

    You continue at this rate for a week and by the end you've put on anywhere between 2-10 lbs, you assume it's just bloating so you stick with the same intake and expect it to level out. Another week goes by and it hasn't, worse you're up another 2-5 lbs. You start to think you're gaining too quick, but the sense of dread of another deficit is horrifying so you keep calories higher than normal. But you may have the tendency to be lazy and overestimate your needs, ending up with too much of a surplus.

    The point I'm trying to make with all this is after a long dieting phase, you cant expect your body to be back to normal in 2 weeks after competition. I want to demonstrate the benefits of a slow reverse to help competitors out in the future. I also hope to ease some pressure and create a good environment to talk about post diet troubles. Those who have already have experienced this and have developed your own methods of reversing, or if you disagree with my thoughts, feel free to make a comment.

    I've just done another contest prep totaling about 8 weeks, I'm 6% body fat, cold, 4-5hrs sleep, libido down, and dieting on low CHO and under 2200 calories. The upside is that I've done this all before, and In general I feel happy and great. I will be acting as the case study for this thread.

    Here are a few pictures of my condition at 8 days out, 75.5 kg. I'm currently waiting for my contest pics.


    and to refresh this is where I was at 4 months post injury at 82kg






    So in this log I will be conducting a 6-8 week reverse out of contest prep, I want to give a little back to my fellow competitors and get some good information out there.

    Following this time period I will transition into a full bulk of at least 12-14 months. =)



    -----------------------------------






    Lets get started
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  2. #2
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Nutrition and Training Philosophy





    Contest Nutrition.
    I no longer count or weigh food. Daily intake is based on my scale weight first thing in the morning. I then adjust to the day's situation wither or not I will go low CHO, or save my calories for dinner or certain meal times.

    For example, during social occasions, I'll save at least 75% of my calories for that meal/meals. This may lead to "how can you eat so much and stay lean" comments, as people wouldn't know my intake for that day. I have not noticed any detriment in setting eating up this way. If anything It can help reduce stress. In this way I believe nutrient timing is an effective dieting tool. Further so that combining a night out with a re-feed day can often allow you to go 50% over you calorie limit for the day, with even beneficial results.

    In the interest of this log I will try to provide the weight and macro nutrients of my diet. I will also dedicate some time to taking photos of my meals, although I have little interest in making things look pretty, as I'd rather just start eating.

    My macro's will vary day to day, I don't think the body cares if you're getting 200g of protein 215g of CHO and 47g of fat, day in day out. I will adjust macro's on the day depending on activity level and general scale weight. This may be difficult to follow but your body is always going to respond differently to foods to it's best to develop the best system for yourself.


    Training.
    My weight program is the same all through prep, I rarely deviate from exercises I normally do. Obviously there is a reduction in weight when it just becomes too much, but generally your current level of muscularity is built from the weights you are lifting, so I think it's better sticking to what you know your body can do. This really helps gauge performance from workout to workout.

    For example, 225 lbs flat bench press I may get 8 reps, 7 reps, 6 reps each set consecutively, this would be a good workout. 225 lbs x 6-6-6 would be a baseline workout, as it 6 is already my minimum target so there's no reason to push it.

    It's my personal opinion that if you're in a calorie deficit you cannot build muscle, only keep what you have. With this in consideration, why push heavier weight that day if you feel strong then having to reduce it next week because of your deficit?

    During this reverse I will be following a more structured training plan for the importance of keeping the variables to a minimum. Focusing mainly on 1-2 exercises per muscle group, a training frequency of two per week and a mixture of single, double and triple progression. The exercises will be chosen on my current strengths and weaknesses, so may not apply to you, but the fundamentals should be solid.

    Regrettably because of my lower back injury, there will be no heavy dumbbell work, squats, dead lifts or heavy rows.



    --------------------------------------------
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  3. #3
    Registered User TheNaturalOak's Avatar
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    srs? 1st!!!!

    You kno I'm in bro, perfect timing too!
    Will definitely apply some of the knowledge to my next reverse. "Goodluck" and I'll b waiting on dem contest pics
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  4. #4
    Chin up and stop crying. Zachary533's Avatar
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    In! Looking forward to seeing the journey ahead
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  5. #5
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    Will be following!

    Looked great and have done really well since your injury

    I am currently on a reverse (show was 1 week ago) so this will be a great help with your knowledge and experience
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  6. #6
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    in!

    what areas are you going to be focusing on this offseason?
    *ελευθερία ή θάνατος*
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  7. #7
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    I didn't even realize you competed again, Devils. Sick conditioning once again. I'm in!
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  8. #8
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Here's some bathroom shots the day after, just base tan left








    -------------------------


    Originally Posted by TheNaturalOak View Post
    srs? 1st!!!!

    You kno I'm in bro, perfect timing too!
    Will definitely apply some of the knowledge to my next reverse. "Goodluck" and I'll b waiting on dem contest pics
    Originally Posted by Zachary533 View Post
    In! Looking forward to seeing the journey ahead
    Originally Posted by Ccm644 View Post
    Will be following!

    Looked great and have done really well since your injury

    I am currently on a reverse (show was 1 week ago) so this will be a great help with your knowledge and experience
    Good to see you guys following, I know you've both done show's so feel free to chime in on your experiences too.

    Originally Posted by Heracles26 View Post
    in!

    what areas are you going to be focusing on this offseason?
    Size everywhere, back and core rehab. Lower back and leg size.

    Originally Posted by Bnizzle163 View Post
    I didn't even realize you competed again, Devils. Sick conditioning once again. I'm in!
    I didn't even tell my misses until 5-6 weeks out. Wanted to just keep it to myself for a while, not too stressful.
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  9. #9
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Tyran28's Avatar
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    IN. nice pics bro looking god!
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  10. #10
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Day 0, Week 1 Deload




    Training

    Spin Bike Warmup 8 minutes, lvl 15, 90+ cadence

    Flat Bench Press, 20kgx20, 40kgx15, 60kgx15, 70kgx12-12-12
    Incline Bench Press 60kgx10-10

    Tricep Pushdown Level 10x15-15-12
    Cable Fly Level 5x15-12-10

    Cable Curl Level 10x15-12
    Lat Pulldown Level 14x15, Level 15x12-12
    Pullups Bodyweight x 15-12-10
    Cable Shrug Level 30x30-25-20
    Cable Reverse Fly Level 4x12-12-10

    Spin Bike cooldown 4 minutes, lvl 12, 90+ cadence




    Nutrition

    Approx 3,754 calories, 238p, 367c, 155f

    Breakfast was a 1 yolk, 4 white omelet, Whey shake and 2 slices of toast with jam.
    1 Muscletech protein sample post workout
    Steak sandwhich and chips with a black coffee
    1 Bulknutrients whey Isolate sample, 1 cup Milo with milk
    Beef curry, Chicken Tandoori, Saffron Rice, yougurt dip, 2 cans of coke zero
    340g Tub of mixed icecream from BaskinRobbins


    Thoughts

    Day 1 finished, did a light workout and enjoyed lunch and dinner out with gf and dinner with parents. Back to work tomorrow and ready for the beginning of the reverse.
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  11. #11
    Inner Builder Ccm644's Avatar
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    Glad you enjoyed a few meals with family

    Your conditioning is insane

    My experience a week after a show, I am finding it harder than prep. I had one meal out which was still limited after the show and reversing now. I have found that as prep and the site of a goal kept you going now afterwards all your body wants is recovery
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  12. #12
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Day 1, Week 1 Deload, Legs




    Training

    Spin Bike Intervals 10 minutes total, 4x30 seconds @ Level 23, 1:30 rest

    Single Leg Extension Level 5, 4x15
    Single Lying Leg Curl Level 3, 3x15. Both legs - Level 6 x 12
    Sled Calf Raise 120kg x 30, 25, 25, 20

    Walking Lunges 25kg x 20
    Hip Adductor Level 13 x 15, Level 15 x 15-15-12



    Nutrition

    Approx 2,856 calories, 244p, 278c, 92f

    Breakfast was a 1 yolk, 4 white omelet, Whey shake and 3 slices of toast with jam.
    1 WPC shake and a slice of cheese
    Homemade beef burger with peas and melted cheese
    1 WPC shake with Milo
    1 family size frozen pizza
    1 WPC shake


    Thoughts

    Had a busy day, didn't get my usual nap in so I wont go into too much detail. Leg training was good, went to maximum burn in most sets, this week is really just a primer to get me ready for heavy training. Burnt a whole pizza in the oven at dinner, had to open the other one rookie mistake
    Calories were higher due to the first session of High intensity cardio, tomorrow I will taper down fats and protein to reduce about 400 calories.
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  13. #13
    Registered User TheNaturalOak's Avatar
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    Allowing yourself some extra kcals huh? :P

    Whats current weight at compared to comp weight?
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  14. #14
    Chin up and stop crying. Zachary533's Avatar
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    Nice bro- I've found that my metabolism has changed drastically after my reverse dieting into stage time. I've found a sweet spot at around 240c, 200p, 65f where I'm losing a little bit of weight. Going to evaluate how things go after weigh in on Monday and adjust accordingly- so far including the binge over the weekend I've only put on 0.8kg
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  15. #15
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheNaturalOak View Post
    Allowing yourself some extra kcals huh? :P

    Whats current weight at compared to comp weight?
    Current weight is 76.1kg, 1.1kg from stage weight.

    Originally Posted by Zachary533 View Post
    Nice bro- I've found that my metabolism has changed drastically after my reverse dieting into stage time. I've found a sweet spot at around 240c, 200p, 65f where I'm losing a little bit of weight. Going to evaluate how things go after weigh in on Monday and adjust accordingly- so far including the binge over the weekend I've only put on 0.8kg
    Good work so far, I haven't binged but had a number of good meals out with family and the gf. There's a big difference in having a nice meal socially and just stuffing yourself with food until your sick. I know which one I'd choose.
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  16. #16
    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Day 2, Week 1 Deload, Rest




    Training

    No Training today.


    Nutrition

    Approx 2,026 calories, 134p, 227c, 67.4f

    Breakfast was 6 wheatbix with honey and whey instead of milk. 1 Cup of coffee
    Lunch was a salmon and cream cheese bagel + pulled pork and fruit chutney sandwich + 1 white chocolate raspberry muffin,
    2 Cups coffee
    Whey shake + Bran/Fiber muffin.


    Thoughts

    Busy day, only ate twice today for breakfast and lunch, dinner time just a shake and a homemade bran muffin before bed. Off day from training, resuming upper tomorrow morning. As you can see I've started the taper of the calories I will probably stick around 2200-2400 over the rest of the week until Sunday and see if I remain weight stable, then think about another increase next week. Proper weights program starts next week, exciting.
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  17. #17
    Banned The Solution's Avatar
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    Will be following along shredder!
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  18. #18
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    Will be following!
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  19. #19
    Real PhD/Fake Bodybuilder adknows's Avatar
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    I'm so in for this thread...Perfect timing as well. Just days out from my first show and first post show binge.
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  20. #20
    Registered User DoubleDaysBen's Avatar
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    In on this. Been creepin since the Natural Edge's log last year. Mirin' stage aesthetics brosuf
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    IN!

    I dont understand your nutrition at all though......you said your not counting/weighing food? how do you know the calories then?

    Also you went from 3700kcals to 2800kclas to 2000kcals. Ive never competed so I dont understand reverse dieting really, but could you explain the philosophy a bit? or how you came up with the calories for those days?
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    In!
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    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Will be following along shredder!
    Originally Posted by offroadatv200 View Post
    Will be following!
    Originally Posted by adknows View Post
    I'm so in for this thread...Perfect timing as well. Just days out from my first show and first post show binge.
    Originally Posted by DoubleDaysBen View Post
    In on this. Been creepin since the Natural Edge's log last year. Mirin' stage aesthetics brosuf
    Originally Posted by grahulino View Post
    In!
    Thanks for following guys.

    Originally Posted by ShadowWolfe View Post
    IN!

    I don't understand your nutrition at all though......you said your not counting/weighing food? how do you know the calories then?

    Also you went from 3700kcals to 2800kclas to 2000kcals. Ive never competed so I dont understand reverse dieting really, but could you explain the philosophy a bit? or how you came up with the calories for those days?
    Yes I did say I did not count/weighed food this prep, I also said that for this log I would start recording my calories and weighing my food. My daily intake is being counted using Fitday and weighed using my food scale. I will try to keep this going at least a few weeks to demonstrate my nutrition.

    I explained some of my philosophy in my introductory post. This is the second contest prep I have done without counting food and calories, at least on paper. My nutrition is calculated on a day to day basis, depending on how active I am, how much cardio I will do, how hard I have trained, what social occasions I will go to and just general feelings. I start the day by weighing in on the scale directly in the morning after urination, based on this weight I will get a general idea of my weight changes each day and be able to adapt my nutrition to accommodate.

    Explaining the calories so far;
    3700kcal was the 1 day post show. This is the time to enjoy a number of treats and meals you may have been craving large amounts of, however an upper limit of 2 x normal intake was observed. My pre contest intake was 2200 calories so my upper limit was around 4400. THIS IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE, but purely my opinion.

    2800kcal, 2 days post show. Resumed training and high intensity cardio, a large amount of fullness was gained from the day before so training with high reps and a lighter load had enhanced effects, better pumps and general better workout. Enjoyed another 2-3 meals of larger portions.

    and finally the 2000kcal day was a non-training day. This day was in the style of IF, breakfast was a large amount of CHO and PROTEIN. It was 7 hours before my next meal where I went out for lunch socially and another 7 hours or so before my last meal before bed of protein, carbohydrate and fiber.

    I hope this explains things better. I have spoken with a number of competitors on the day of the show, the common theme is they have been dieting for around 12 weeks, they have passed on social occasion and dinners out with friends, they are locked into the same "diet" and "clean" meals in the effort to get more condition and they often struggle with hunger and cravings. They are also doing daily bouts of long cardio, fasted or otherwise.

    All this is ok, it's how many people get into great condition, but can you get into good condition without all that? I want to prove it. Thanks for following.
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post

    All this is ok, it's how many people get into great condition, but can you get into good condition without all that? I want to prove it. Thanks for following.
    Breaking the norm? Figuring out what works for your own body? Not accepting what everyone else does as divine edict?

    Craziness!!!

    Sounds like something I would do ; )
    "The code of Bushido is harsh and relentless."

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    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TakedaShingen View Post
    Breaking the norm? Figuring out what works for your own body? Not accepting what everyone else does as divine edict?
    Craziness!!!
    Sounds like something I would do ; )
    I'm still human, this can be applied to every body.
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post
    I'm still human, this can be applied to every body.
    Absolutely. I love seeing the many different paths of this journey.

    We need not all be cookie cutter products. That's the beauty of this game.

    Serious conditioning for your show. I'll be counting my macros for this first show coming up, but I will certainly be paying attention in here. More info, more options, more potential for success.

    Keep doin work, brother.
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    Originally Posted by Devils View Post

    I hope this explains things better. I have spoken with a number of competitors on the day of the show, the common theme is they have been dieting for around 12 weeks, they have passed on social occasion and dinners out with friends, they are locked into the same "diet" and "clean" meals in the effort to get more condition and they often struggle with hunger and cravings. They are also doing daily bouts of long cardio, fasted or otherwise.

    All this is ok, it's how many people get into great condition, but can you get into good condition without all that? I want to prove it. Thanks for following.
    After reading/following and commenting in many journals its amazing how so many people do this.
    How can you not go out to eat and order a chicken salad and eat.
    Steak/Baked Potato and Eat
    Chicken/Baked Potato and Eat

    etc etc...

    its amazing how people hide themselves from their social life to hit X meals or hit Y Workouts etc at this given time. The balance is what lacks for most during prep.
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    Following Interested to see how this plays out
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    Check your Credentials Devils's Avatar
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    Day 3, Week 1 Upper Body




    Training

    Spin Bike Warmup, 5 minutes @ Level 15.

    Flat Bench Press 20kg x 25, 40kg x 10, 60kg x 8, 80kg x 12-12, 100kg x 6-5
    Incline Bench Press 60kg x 12-12, 70kg x 6-8

    Pullups 20kg x 12-12, 30kg x 8-6
    Seated Row Level 12 x 12-12-11

    Cable Shrugs Level 20 x 30-30-25
    Back Extensions 3x20-15-15-12


    Nutrition

    Will update at the end of the day.

    Approx 2,470 calories, 186p, 303c, 58.5f

    Breakfast was 4 egg omelet, 3 whites/1 yolk, 1 Cup of coffee + whey,
    Lunch was a steak burger with salad/onions,
    Before work was a another steak burger with salad/onions,
    Dinner was a bowl of beef and vegetable soup, and salmon linguine with bread


    Thoughts

    Training went well, started my new program to test it out, pushed pretty hard and strength was good. I'm currently 75.6kg, in general sleep is getting better, I have got about 1 hour extra sleep in before I need to get up to piss. I usually go to sleep at 10pm and wake up at 4am, this is getting better as during the last few weeks of prep I was getting up at 2-3am for a slash and then trying to get back to sleep. I have noticed an increase in libido over the last few days, which is good too. Started my new training book today, I find it's very important to track your workouts, not only at home but while your at the gym. It helps with planning your progression and writing down details of your workout.
    Last edited by Devils; 05-22-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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    your in amazing shape man..... definitely mirin.

    How did you do at the contest?

    Wish I could translate KG better as well, farkin hard to read lol.
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