My opinion on the latest Craze craze...

[_Smitty_]

Isn't it strange that if these tubs are testing positive for an amphetamine analog that they're all found overseas, like Sweden or Australia? Y'know, overseas... where the counterfeit tubs were being produced? The counterfeit tubs that had a peculiar, bitter taste to them.

Isn't it strange that no American government agencies are claiming the same thing? Or that anyone taking Craze that is subjected to urinalysis aren't testing positive for anything?

I won't even mention the recent court ruling, or the independent tests conducted that didn't find the compound everyone's going bananananananas over.

[cjwav34]

Spell check on bananas not even once

[alexistheboss]

not aware? Whats happening?

[THEjuggernaut76]

I was thinking the same thing when I read some stuff earlier the morning..
we know there have been counterfeits overseas, and that's where all these reports are coming from..

[Terrimonas]

not aware? Whats happening?

I was thinking the same thing when I read some stuff earlier the morning..
we know there have been counterfeits overseas, and that's where all these reports are coming from..

http://www.wfad.se/latest-news/1-art...ated-in-sweden

among others...

[De__eB]

What I don't understand is how international distributors are ending up with counterfeit craze unless they're partaking in the counterfeiting themselves. Shouldn't distributors be buying their product directly from DS?

I've seen people's tubs turn up fake purportedly bought from large and otherwise legitimate supp chains and websites.

It just seems odd.

[Jakeylee]

I hope it is only the counterfeits, otherwise I believe Craze will be banned in the UK too.

[VaughnTrue]

What I don't understand is how international distributors are ending up with counterfeit craze unless they're partaking in the counterfeiting themselves. Shouldn't distributors be buying their product directly from DS?

I've seen people's tubs turn up fake purportedly bought from large and otherwise legitimate supp chains and websites.

It just seems odd.

Some distributors undoubtedly are involved.

Not all distributors can purchase direct however when there are exclusive sale rights involved

[ubernoob]

Agree with OP, love this stuff.

[De__eB]

Some distributors undoubtedly are involved.

Not all distributors can purchase direct however when there are exclusive sale rights involved

But it can't possibly be that difficult to isolate which people are involved and wreck their image.

If it's at the store level then they wouldn't have records of purchasing the product from a legitimate distributor that could be backed up.

If it's at the distributor level then there would be no way for the distributor to link their product back to DS.

I just don't understand how there can be such apparently ridiculously widespread counterfeiting of craze.

Hell, is the ultimate conspiracy a possibility, that a competitor is counterfeiting it and spiking it with drugs, and trying to screw over DS? Or are the drugs just to make the counterfeit product seem as effective as the actual product?

It all just seems....odd...

[kissdadookie]

But it can't possibly be that difficult to isolate which people are involved and wreck their image.

If it's at the store level then they wouldn't have records of purchasing the product from a legitimate distributor that could be backed up.

If it's at the distributor level then there would be no way for the distributor to link their product back to DS.

I just don't understand how there can be such apparently ridiculously widespread counterfeiting of craze.

Hell, is the ultimate conspiracy a possibility, that a competitor is counterfeiting it and spiking it with drugs, and trying to screw over DS? Or are the drugs just to make the counterfeit product seem as effective as the actual product?

It all just seems....odd...

Could it be possible that the testing for illicit drugs outside of the USA is different? That Swedish investigation after all did not flat out say that Craze contained amphetamines and instead, that it contains some things that have some chemical similarities to amphetamines.

[Starkk]

i'm no tin foil hat nut either, but it does seem pretty odd

trying to think from a competitors standpoint... another company releases what most of the fitness population considers to be one of the best preworkouts on the market and despite all their best efforts, no one is able to create a better product.

how do you fix this?

i would say you examine every possible option and if trying to ruin their image through whatever means necessary is probably your best bet, then go for it

it's really not that far fetched considering the very nature of the supplement industry. it's one of the shadiest businesses around.

[_Smitty_]

But it can't possibly be that difficult to isolate which people are involved and wreck their image.

If it's at the store level then they wouldn't have records of purchasing the product from a legitimate distributor that could be backed up.

If it's at the distributor level then there would be no way for the distributor to link their product back to DS.

I just don't understand how there can be such apparently ridiculously widespread counterfeiting of craze.

Hell, is the ultimate conspiracy a possibility, that a competitor is counterfeiting it and spiking it with drugs, and trying to screw over DS? Or are the drugs just to make the counterfeit product seem as effective as the actual product?

It all just seems....odd...

Because the counterfeiting originated overseas, I would think that prosecution for trademark infringement might prove a little more difficult.

I don't think that the counterfeiter was maliciously trying to bury DS; I think it was a way to cash in... so, the analog would boost the effectiveness, or to even make it more appealing when compared to other products. The stimulant effect of Craze isn't on the same level as some of these heavily caffeinated concentrates. And what sells? That cracked out stim feeling.

[itzDodge]

Hell, is the ultimate conspiracy a possibility, that a competitor is counterfeiting it and spiking it with drugs, and trying to screw over DS? Or are the drugs just to make the counterfeit product seem as effective as the actual product?

It all just seems....odd...

I'm leaning towards the later, they're less illegal ways to defame the competition.

Could it be possible that the testing for illicit drugs outside of the USA is different? That Swedish investigation after all did not flat out say that Craze contained amphetamines and instead, that it contains some things that have some chemical similarities to amphetamines.

Also possible but of all the lab tests done how is it nothing came up even after all the initial hysteria. Craze has been out for a while. Counterfeits have been more recently produced. If they're doing the same testing procedures on all tubs then it should have been found long ago

[kissdadookie]

Also possible but of all the lab tests done how is it nothing came up even after all the initial hysteria. Craze has been out for a while. Counterfeits have been more recently produced. If they're doing the same testing procedures on all tubs then it should have been found long ago

Well, I'm pretty certain that foreign countries don't actually rely on FDA and DEA regulations and processes. So, even though DS may be correct in stating that it's following FDA and DEA regulations, we really have no idea how things are classified or analyzed in other countries. This is all just me speculating though so take it for what it's worth.

[sloop]

Isn't it strange that if these tubs are testing positive for an amphetamine analog that they're all found overseas, like Sweden or Australia? Y'know, overseas... where the counterfeit tubs were being produced? The counterfeit tubs that had a peculiar, bitter taste to them.

Isn't it strange that no American government agencies are claiming the same thing? Or that anyone taking Craze that is subjected to urinalysis aren't testing positive for anything?

I won't even mention the recent court ruling, or the independent tests conducted that didn't find the compound everyone's going bananananananas over.

That's an interesting point and all, Smitty, but magnetic induction is the real deal when it comes to sealing the inner seal, they require some serious cutting to get into and you could never replace one outside of a professional factory with the proper equipment. Yes they cost money, expensive machinery and all but it's a sign of company's who care as companies who are concerned with things like this tend to take the extra step for their customers!

[itzDodge]

Well, I'm pretty certain that foreign countries don't actually rely on FDA and DEA regulations and processes. So, even though DS may be correct in stating that it's following FDA and DEA regulations, we really have no idea how things are classified or analyzed in other countries. This is all just me speculating though so take it for what it's worth.

If foreign countries were testing the product the same way from day 1 to now we'd have heard about this much sooner.

[Starkk]

it could just be poverty scientists in other countries not knowing the difference between one methyl group and another

[THEjuggernaut76]

That's an interesting point and all, Smitty, but magnetic induction is the real deal when it comes to sealing the inner seal, they require some serious cutting to get into and you could never replace one outside of a professional factory with the proper equipment. Yes they cost money, expensive machinery and all but it's a sign of company's who care as companies who are concerned with things like this tend to take the extra step for their customers!

I'm pretty sure handheld sealers can be found relatively cheap.. idk how effective they are though compared to industrial size/strength machines

[TrotterP]

I won't even mention the recent court ruling, or the independent tests conducted that didn't find the compound everyone's going bananananananas over.

Even though... you know... you just did.

[kissdadookie]

If foreign countries were testing the product the same way from day 1 to now we'd have heard about this much sooner.

Who knows if they even knew about the stuff until that person out in California tried to sue Drive Sports over Craze. Again, I have no clue how it works in foreign countries but assuming that they just go along with whatever our FDA and DEA approves is a tad naive. I mean, DEA over here still has marijuana labeled as illegal even though some of our State's has it as a legal substance but then we go look at a place like Amsterdam where the stuff is perfectly legal. Heck, in Amsterdam, psychedelic shrooms were legal until that one crazy tourist had a bad shroom trip and decided to go bananas in his hotel room then all of a sudden psychedelic shrooms became a banned substance in Amsterdam (but now they have psychedelic truffles to take the place of the shrooms).

So essentially, assuming food and drugs administrations in foreign countries operate the same way that our DEA and FDA operates is just very illogical.

[BULLED]

it's really not that far fetched considering the very nature of the supplement industry. it's one of the shadiest businesses around.

Do you know Cosa Nostra ? Well , supplement industry is the same thing . The next time you open your pre-workout watch your back . srs .

[aaronuconn]

I personally haven't used Craze. Due to the college I attend, I'm subject to drug testing, so I don't feel comfortable even risking it. I understand most individuals who are subject to a urinalysis aren't testing positive, however I just figured why risk it in my last semester. Hopefully everything gets sorted out for DS, as they're a stand up group of guys and I'd hate to see a continuous slew of potentially false rumors going around.

[kissdadookie]

I personally haven't used Craze. Due to the college I attend, I'm subject to drug testing, so I don't feel comfortable even risking it. I understand most individuals who are subject to a urinalysis aren't testing positive, however I just figured why risk it in my last semester. Hopefully everything gets sorted out for DS, as they're a stand up group of guys and I'd hate to see a continuous slew of potentially false rumors going around.

Nothing in Craze has been banned by official sports organization in the US (yet). The stuff also doesn't violate (yet) any FDA or DEA regulations. So unless they are testing for specific components in Craze, I highly doubt that if you were tested in the US for amphetamines, that your tests would show up positive.

As is the case with bans, something really has to happen negatively health-wise and hit the major news media before the FDA and DEA really starts to drill in on it.

[RatherBeLifting]

Isn't it strange that if these tubs are testing positive for an amphetamine analog that they're all found overseas, like Sweden or Australia? Y'know, overseas... where the counterfeit tubs were being produced? The counterfeit tubs that had a peculiar, bitter taste to them.

Isn't it strange that no American government agencies are claiming the same thing? Or that anyone taking Craze that is subjected to urinalysis aren't testing positive for anything?

I won't even mention the recent court ruling, or the independent tests conducted that didn't find the compound everyone's going bananananananas over.

This really is the most logical thing to me.

[VaughnTrue]

I personally haven't used Craze. Due to the college I attend, I'm subject to drug testing, so I don't feel comfortable even risking it. I understand most individuals who are subject to a urinalysis aren't testing positive, however I just figured why risk it in my last semester. Hopefully everything gets sorted out for DS, as they're a stand up group of guys and I'd hate to see a continuous slew of potentially false rumors going around.

worst...college...ever.

[kissdadookie]

worst...college...ever.

Everybody should just go to Uni of Syracuse :P

[VaughnTrue]

Everybody should just go to Uni of Syracuse :P

FSU worked just fine for me on that front LOL

[kissdadookie]

FSU worked just fine for me on that front LOL

Drats, FSU does beat out Syracuse on national party school rankings. Lulz.

[VPX_Sports]

FSU worked just fine for me on that front LOL

I guess that makes us Eskimo brothers