Noob status ---> Help with Shredding

[Americampton]

Gradually learning... Bear with me. I've been through the sticky's and posted the relevant information in another thread but someone told me it is more trial and error and that the stickies are just a big guestimation.

I am following Kris Gethin's 12-week trainer (controversial and loaded with broscience, I know), but it has actually done me really well! I have lost a ton of fat and my lifts all went up. I had been working out consistently for about 2 years but my nutrition was HORRIBLE (huge lack of protein and carbs and mainly peanut butter) until I went on his program.

My daily intake is placed in the attachment.

I know there is virtually NO fat whatsoever, but I take OMEGA-3-6-9 pills to help combat that lack.

I have gotten great results and I don't know if it's my metabolism or body type but should I continue to do this or change it? I might finish off the 12 weeks (3 more left) and then revert back to correct macros, etc...
Should I heighten my carb intake and lower my protein?

General insults about lack of knowledge, and actual helpful information, are welcome. Both help me to expand my desire to learn valuable information, and not "broscience."

[Americampton]

Also this is a stupid question but I don't really understand it. Is 15g of sugar from ice cream the same thing as 15g of carbs from brown rice and has the same effect (aside from fiber)?

[dtown3411]

Also this is a stupid question but I don't really understand it. Is 15g of sugar from ice cream the same thing as 15g of carbs from brown rice and has the same effect (aside from fiber)?

sugar is a sub category of carbs (15g of sugar outta 24g of carbs means 15g of those 24g is sugar).... only worry about total carbs, total fats, and protein....thats IIFYM, i recommend reading up on the stickies above....same effect yes

[marcus13227]

Gradually learning... Bear with me. I've been through the sticky's and posted the relevant information in another thread but someone told me it is more trial and error and that the stickies are just a big guestimation.

I am following Kris Gethin's 12-week trainer (controversial and loaded with broscience, I know), but it has actually done me really well! I have lost a ton of fat and my lifts all went up. I had been working out consistently for about 2 years but my nutrition was HORRIBLE (huge lack of protein and carbs and mainly peanut butter) until I went on his program.

My daily intake is placed in the attachment.

I know there is virtually NO fat whatsoever, but I take OMEGA-3-6-9 pills to help combat that lack.

I have gotten great results and I don't know if it's my metabolism or body type but should I continue to do this or change it? I might finish off the 12 weeks (3 more left) and then revert back to correct macros, etc...
Should I heighten my carb intake and lower my protein?

General insults about lack of knowledge, and actual helpful information, are welcome. Both help me to expand my desire to learn valuable information, and not "broscience."

why so many meals?

[Americampton]

why so many meals?

In short, broscience. I just want to stick to the "program" as best I can so there are no excuses if results don't show up.

[ShaneWalshEire]

Do you not get sick of that diet?

[Americampton]

Do you not get sick of that diet?

The power of routine. I kinda like the discipline it requires. Just call me a masochist.
I'm assuming because no one has really said anything about it that my food regime is good enough to do the job?

[WonderPug]

It would be hard to design a worse diet.

You're doing everything you can to make sure you have a bad outcome.

[Americampton]

It would be hard to design a worse diet.

Then please, educate. I understand how it seems like a "bad diet," but honestly I've shedded so much fat and, no ****, my max has gone up since I've upped my protein from before the program. So how "bad" can it be if it's working pretty well?

[WonderPug]

Start with the stickies at the top of the nutrition forum, as you need to learn the basics about nutrition.

[Americampton]

Start with the stickies at the top of the nutrition forum, as you need to learn the basics about nutrition.

I've done the stickies and calculated what I "needed," but then after posting my stats people said it's less of that and more of trial and error. My body reflects (or seems so) adequate nutrition compared to before in my progress pics. I know fats are needed, but things are pretty good, so how "needed" are they if this diet is working great?

[sczott52]

It would be hard to design a worse diet.

You're doing everything you can to make sure you have a bad outcome.

That's really all you've eaten for 9 weeks?

[marcus13227]

In short, broscience. I just want to stick to the "program" as best I can so there are no excuses if results don't show up.

Do yourself a great favor and refer to http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981 for diet. And just focus on heavy compound lifts.

Why even bother with 12 weeks "programs" like this...

[Americampton]

That's really all you've eaten for 9 weeks?

I was eating a cup of brown rice per meal, then 3/4, now 1/2. But aside from that, yes. I add spinach to my breakfast and usually have a spinach salad & hot sauce every day.

[WonderPug]

I've done the stickies and calculated what I "needed," but then after posting my stats people said it's less of that and more of trial and error. My body reflects (or seems so) adequate nutrition compared to before in my progress pics. I know fats are needed, but things are pretty good, so how "needed" are they if this diet is working great?

If malnutrition is your goal, you're well on your way.

Anyway, I suggest you remember this thread, as you were warned of the consequences of the diet.

[KenInAZ]

Way too many carbs, way too few fats. It isn't compensated for by a few measley fat grams garnered from fish oil pills. Sure you still lost fat, you were in a caloric deficit. Your hormones however must be completely out of whack. Read up on the importance of dietary fats in the stickies because you need to add 70+ grams to your daily diet.

[SadikHadzovic]

My advice to you is to always keep out body guessing with different diets/workouts/food sources.

If your not happy with the results you are seeing then switch it. Personally I prefer a carb cycling approach to getting "shredded"

[WonderPug]

OP, perhaps the following words of wisdom will help you see the light:

Random thoughts, in no particular order, that might help clear away some of the fog that noobs seem to have when dealing with nutrition:



*Eat the whole egg. The yolks are not silent killers. Trust me on this.


*You're not an 'ectomorph,' 'endomorph,' 'putzomorph,' or whatever; you're a human, and are subject to the same basic rules of nutrition as every other human. If you're too fat, eat a little less. If you're too skinny, eat a little more.


*Eating at night won't make you fat unless you eat past your daily calorie limit all the time.


*Eating a lot of protein won't cause your 'kidneys/liver/pancreas/name-that-internal-organ' to explode.


*Number of meals eaten in a day don't really matter. It's really just up to you. Really.


*The only 'dirty' food is food that you dropped on the floor. And even that might still be edible if you just pretend the specks of dirt are black pepper.


*Supplements are what their name implies, nothing more, nothing less.


*Eat with a slant towards good health. A few portions of fruit and veg every day won't kill you even if you don't really like them.


*'Hardgainers' exist only in the minds of those who think they are one.


*Sugar/salt/sat fat/alcohol are not necessarily the enemy; lack of moderation is.


*The biggest, most-ripped guy might not be the best source of nutrition information.


*The skinniest or fattest guy might not be the worst source of nutrition information.


*Second-guessing yourself and making constant changes on multiple fronts will only leave you chasing your own tail. Make a decision, then abide by it.


*Whenever the topic of building mass/strength comes up, it seems that too often, common sense takes a hike. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.


*Exclusionary eating plans or diets are dumb. Remember; common sense.


*Nobody can tell you exactly how many calories you need to eat every day in order to reach your goal. Use the info in the stickies, apply some basic math skillz, make a reasonable estimate, and then stick with it for 3-4 weeks.

[sczott52]

I was eating a cup of brown rice per meal, then 3/4, now 1/2. But aside from that, yes. I add spinach to my breakfast and usually have a spinach salad & hot sauce every day.

I wouldn't do that diet even if I had hot strippers spoon feeding me the chicken and rice.

[Americampton]

If malnutrition is your goal, you're well on your way.

Anyway, I suggest you remember this thread, as you were warned of the consequences of the diet.

I see you around here a lot, so I have a big respect for you and what you think, because you're clearly knowledgable. I'm trying to figure it out, and I'm willing to adapt it accordingly... Using the highly praised STICKYs, it calculated me at:
375g of carbs.
Calculated protein is 3g per kg (weight in at 75.06kg) amounting to 225.18g of protein.

Suggested caloric intake after considering BMR and labeling my non-training lifestyle as "lightly active," the calculations yield 2,980 calories, 500 less for weight loss, 500 more for weight gain.

So if I up my fats to around 40g, lower my carbs by a .5cup brown rice (roughly 24g carbs), and all else remain constant, would this be better?

[KenInAZ]

And that's not even touching on the micronutrient deficiency from eating the same meal x9 times a day or whatever it is. If troll, well played with the spreadsheet.

[chameleonism]

Wow, that is one bro-rific diet. Seriously dump all that crap. A diet that deficient in dietary fats is sure to cause you to have increased metabolic slowdown, micronutrient deficiency from lack of absorption, and screw with your hormones. Omega 3-6-9 (fish oils high in EPA/DHA) are used in some very strict diet protocols (UD2.0/RFL) to help combat the problems associated with a reduction in dietary fat but these protocols still have people eating dietary fat AND they are normally run for very short durations.

Also, the training routine is very sub-optimal for someone with such little lean muscle. Find a compound based routine like Starting Strength, SL5x5, JasonDBs 5x5, etc.

[Americampton]

OP, perhaps the following words of wisdom will help you see the light:

Good wealth of knowledge, thank you!

[WonderPug]

I see you around here a lot, so I have a big respect for you and what you think, because you're clearly knowledgable. I'm trying to figure it out, and I'm willing to adapt it accordingly... Using the highly praised STICKYs, it calculated me at:

Set protein to 130 grams and dietary fat to 70 grams (assuming you're still ~160 pounds). Compose your remaining calories from whatever mix of carbs and additional protein and fat you prefer.

Eat when you're hungry and when it's convenient, as meal frequency and timing are largely just functions of personal preference.

Also, take care to ensure micronutrient sufficiency, preferably from a diet composed in the (vast) majority from whole and minimally processed food.

[neilhunter]

Omega pills don't replace dietary fat. That's like saying "I get almost 0g of protein from my food but it's ok because I take a scoop of protein powder every day". Nutrient sufficiency is about hitting the total numbers your body needs. At your weight, you need at least ~65g-80g fat. The reason you're seeing the results you want is more to do with the fact that you're taking in 2k calories a day. Of course you're going to lose fat. I'd lose about 3lbs a week on this diet.

Read the stickies and follow a diet composed for you, not someone else.

[Americampton]

Set protein to 130 grams and dietary fat to 70 grams. Compose your remaining calories from whatever mix of carbs and additional protein and fat you prefer.

Eat when you're hungry and when it's convenient, as meal frequency and timing are largely just functions of personal preference.

Also, take care to ensure micronutrient sufficiency, preferably from a diet composed in the (vast) majority from whole and minimally processed food.

I am literally about to leave for the store, buying a scale (bought a fat calipur but I think a scale and mirror would do me better), buying some healthy fats, and doing this correctly. This will still put me at shredding right? Because I only have 3 weeks left and I want optimal results and so far, compared to what it was, it's been great. So I want to wait at least 3 weeks before going into a surplus. Unless you strongly advise otherwise?

[Americampton]

Omega pills don't replace dietary fat. That's like saying "I get almost 0g of protein from my food but it's ok because I take a scoop of protein powder every day". Nutrient sufficiency is about hitting the total numbers your body needs. At your weight, you need at least ~65g-80g fat. The reason you're seeing the results you want is more to do with the fact that you're taking in 2k calories a day. Of course you're going to lose fat. I'd lose about 3lbs a week on this diet.

Read the stickies and follow a diet composed for you, not someone else.

Appreciate the information man, so taking in more fat (in which case I wasn't taking any in for 10 weeks), isn't going to make me gain fat. I understand that it USUALLY doesn't, but my metabolism and hormones may be out of whack, so is adding fats all of a sudden going to do something like that?

[WonderPug]

Cutting is a function of an energy deficit, with body composition impacted by micro/macronutrient sufficiency. At your weight, you should bulk, not cut. But if you want to cut, do not set caloric intake lower than 80% of TDEE and, preferably, at 90% of TDEE.

And the only "unhealthy" fat is industrial trans fat.

[Americampton]

Wow, that is one bro-rific diet. Seriously dump all that crap. A diet that deficient in dietary fats is sure to cause you to have increased metabolic slowdown, micronutrient deficiency from lack of absorption, and screw with your hormones. Omega 3-6-9 (fish oils high in EPA/DHA) are used in some very strict diet protocols (UD2.0/RFL) to help combat the problems associated with a reduction in dietary fat but these protocols still have people eating dietary fat AND they are normally run for very short durations.

Also, the training routine is very sub-optimal for someone with such little lean muscle. Find a compound based routine like Starting Strength, SL5x5, JasonDBs 5x5, etc.

I'm not sure if strength correlates with lean muscle, but I feel like I have a pretty good amount of lean muscle... Idk if my gym is nothing but little **** sardines, but I'm one of the bigger guys in there and it's a university campus (given some are WAY bigger, but most are WAY smaller/weaker). If you truly think it's best to switch to mainly compound workouts, I'll do it. But I've got some serious arms on me (at least I think so), and I don't want to lose them

[Americampton]

Cutting is a function of an energy deficit, with body composition impacted by micro/macronutrient sufficiency. At your weight, you should bulk, not cut. But if you want to cut, do not set caloric intake lower than 80% of TDEE and, preferably, at 90% of TDEE.

And the only "unhealthy" fat is industrial trans fat.

Really appreciate the information. And just one thing regarding fats. Does ice cream fat do the same thing as, say, avacados? And how does saturated fat play into it, or is the 70g just TOTAL fat whether it's saturated, monosat, polysat, or anything but trans? So someone could really get all their fat from an almond joy providing it fits into their carb/fat/caloric intake? That blows my mind if that's true.