RT1957 journal

[RT1957]

Here's my take on all of this that's going around; (and I've tried my best to avoid it)
***sorry if its a ramble- my two kids are running all over the place

Genetics trumps all. If you have good genetics you'll go far. Conversely with bad genetics you can work your tail off with little to show. However, this cant be controlled so work with what you got.

Supplementing- Taking some test that brings you up to "normal" levels doesn't count in my book. If you are on prescribed stuff I think leveling the playing field is more than acceptable.

Now, the real heavy stuff, well that's a whole other ball game. YOU can discount it all you want, Ron, but the fact remains its raises that genetic bar quite a bit further. If looking at a bell curve it literally moves the bell. Work needs to be there, of course, but recovery is much improved- and that's the golden ticket to routines like you mentioned above. I'm blown away with the notion that anyone would think otherwise. The fact that Arnold could row heavy 3 times a week, week after week, with weights that most deadlift is a testament to the vast difference in recovery vs a natty. If I can squat heavy 3 times a week 52 weeks a year and you can only do it 1-2 times a week and need to deload a few times a year how many more session in 3 years do I have over you?

To think you can beat that system with the power of positive thinking is crazy, IMO. Sure I don't give it a second thought with my training but I know its there. When I train at the PL gym I see the monsters who are on. I had a guy last year ask me why I take the hard way with everything. Told me I was crazy to compete as a natty and that he couldn't do it because the numbers just move too slow. Well fuk me huh.

IDK who's on and who's not and IDGAF. If Docs on, good for him, IDC what he does BUT if he is designing programming for others based on what works for him and not disclosing that he's on then its a let down for anyone trying to replicate his results with that missing variable. I wouldn't discount anyone's advice, on or not, but I would take it in consideration when trying to copy their programming. I wouldn't throw it in anyone's face that they were on unless they tried comparing their results to mine as a way to say I'm doing it wrong by lifting heavy as often as I can and sustaining from a lot of fluff and stuff. FWIW that's my personal training philosophy- do the compounds as heavy as my body can recover from as often as I can for 80% of my weekly work. I'm not a bodybuilder- just a 41 year old looking to get stronger and not fatter. If ones goal is body building I still think they need to lift heavy for many many years to develop a solid base. If you attempt to do a lot of fluff work without that solid base and cardio yourself down to nothing I suspect you'll be disappointed. However, I respect everyone's goals, as I hope I get the same back.

I won't blow up your journal with these rants, Ron. I do find the stuff interesting but felt the need to comment since you PMed me on the subject, a subject I've tied to avoid around here. Id rather see everyone here build each other up not tear each other down but we need to keep it real.

I completely agree with you and I don't think you read my post very clearly. I said will you make the same gainz as a supplemented user no....but you will make gainz yes....I also said it takes a good 10 years to find your genetic limits....but you won't meet your genetic limits if you stifle it with negative thoughts. I don't believe anyone here has meet their genetic limits.

Why we keep mentioning others names is not needed. My beliefs are based on personal experience....and I'm no genetic freek....that's obvious so how did I make those gainz as a kid running these types of programs...I followed the parameters....and I ate to grow not get fat and believed it would work...

You guys call if fluff I call it 70's era BBing. It is what was done. Have you visited Dave's site its a wealth of information. But I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Do I do these WO's now...no I'm 58 almost 59 and I don't have the hormone profile at this age to think I'm going to gain tons of mass....but for those who are younger and want to stay natty and want to look more like a BBers and are not worried about PRs then its an avenue to explore and nothing else. There can be a balance between strength and building mass. Again I'm telling everyone even in these WO's you ran the compounds and you wanted to always be moving more weight....Why is that not being heard.....but you also wanted to be moving more weight in concentration curls or lateral raises. There was no exercise that you weren't trying to get strong on...

What would happen to your bicep if you started on a concentration curl at 10lbs and 4 years later you could them with a 40 or a 45....do think your arm had to grow to accommodate that??? That won't be everyone's experience just like I would never have looked my Sergio Oliva no matter if I supplemented or not....I even knew that at the time but I also had no idea how far I could go because when you believe you can you break down walls and open doors..

That wo is an example, his site has many more...some with a lot less volume....Dave's clam is he won Mr American Natty and only took supplements 10 after starting....he talks openly about it on his site

I also think on a site like this talking about genetics is a given....all high level competitors in any sport have superior genetics but those who give any sport a go won't find their genetic limit by not believing

[Jtbny]

I completely agree with you and I don't think you read my post very clearly. I said will you make the same gainz as a supplemented user no....but you will make gainz yes....I also said it takes a good 10 years to find your genetic limits....but you won't meet your genetic limits if you stifle it with negative thoughts. I don't believe anyone here has meet their genetic limits.

Why we keep mentioning others names is not needed. My beliefs are based on personal experience....and I'm no genetic freek....that's obvious so how did I make those gainz as a kid running these types of programs...I followed the parameters....and I ate to grow not get fat and believed it would work...

You guys call if fluff I call it 70's era BBing. It is what was done. Have you visited Dave's site its a wealth of information. But I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Do I do these WO's now...no I'm 58 almost 59 and I don't have the hormone profile at this age to think I'm going to gain tons of mass....but for those who are younger and want to stay natty and want to look more like a BBers and are not worried about PRs then its an avenue to explore and nothing else. There can be a balance between strength and building mass. Again I'm telling everyone even in these WO's you ran the compounds and you wanted to always be moving more weight....Why is that not being heard.....but you also wanted to be moving more weight in concentration curls or lateral raises. There was no exercise that you weren't trying to get strong on...

What would happen to your bicep if you started on a concentration curl at 10lbs and 4 years later you could them with a 40 or a 45....do think your arm had to grow to accommodate that??? That won't be everyone's experience just like I would never have looked my Sergio Oliva no matter if I supplemented or not....I even knew that at the time but I also had no idea how far I could go because when you believe you can you break down walls and open doors..

That wo is an example, his site has many more...some with a lot less volume....Dave's clam is he won Mr American Natty and only took supplements 10 after starting....he talks openly about it on his site

I also think on a site like this talking about genetics is a given....all high level competitors in any sport have superior genetics but those who give any sport a go won't find their genetic limit by not believing

I read your post. Maybe its your message that's not clear? ( or yes maybe its just me ) On one hand you acknowledged drugs help, on another you say the mind is the limiting factor. From what I read you like to down play the importance drugs play in ones ability to achieve certain results. I guess if I'm not getting the point I'm just too dumb to comprehend. I'll step away as not to drag it out any longer. Enjoy...

Edit- This whole thing started because of the persons name I mentioned so I mentioned it again as reference. Again, not a knock on Doc (or anyone who makes that choice). IDK is he's on (and IDGAF either) but he works hard and looks great.

[RT1957]

I read your post. Maybe its your message that's not clear? ( or yes maybe its just me ) On one hand you acknowledged drugs help, on another you say the mind is the limiting factor. From what I read you like to down play the importance drugs play in ones ability to achieve certain results. I guess if I'm not getting the point I'm just too dumb to comprehend. I'll step away as not to drag it out any longer. Enjoy...

Edit- This whole thing started because of the persons name I mentioned so I mentioned it again as reference. Again, not a knock on Doc (or anyone who makes that choice). IDK is he's on (and IDGAF either) but he works hard and looks great.

I'm not down playing drugs...If your goal is to be Mr Olympia...well then that's the only road....If you want to put some good mass on...give these WO's a try and eat to support them. That's my message....

[RT1957]

Unfortunately I have been unavoidably noticing the conversations around the journals for a wee while also.


And although I am not really inclined to allow myself to get into the debate.
1. Due to never actually giving myself time to reach any kind of potential.
2. Because not many take me too seriously.

But in hindsight. I am in fact quite knowledgeable within certain aspects of this lifestyle. Just don't walk the walk in these parts.

But Ron. I honestly hand on heart know that I fall into the ungifted bracket. Will never be a heavyweight boxer unless fat like butterbean.

This article makes some good reading. I managed to fish it out of my junk folder that is so un organised right now.





A link to quite a good read.

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/ex...lding-genetics


FWIW. The biggest potential I am able to achieve (if lucky enough) for my height. Is

165lb stage ready.

That is 28 whole lb less than I weigh right now.

Everyone has limits and I'm not telling anyone to do these WO's if they don't want. I'm not saying you're gonna have the same results as the big boys. You won't...I won't....I believe its a style of training that induces hypertrophy in both supplemented users and non supplemented users....obviously the results would be different....or maybe not....maybe the genetic freek is the natty and the users has bad genetic....the natty might do better...who knows if you don't try

I must have missed all the drama. As far as the golden era training is concerned, yes it works like everything else, but nothing works forever. A great example of a natty who hits the volume hard is Bo_Flecks and conversely someone who focuses on the basics and adding weight to the bar is Ironwill. Two great examples and two completely different methods. If you're going to bump your volume the best advise I can give is to add it slowly, couple extra sets a week. That whey your body will be able to adapt and grow!



Good stuff as always Ron.

I think the biggest confusion is the level of extremes were talking about....i don't know if anyone here was the genetics to be a big boy but I'm not necessary talking about being one of the big boys....I'm just talking about a way to add mass...... how far you can take it...who knows

[doughnutgut]

I would love to carry this on Ron.

But chances are I will be once again banned for conversing about it on these boards.

Also I dont want to see your thread locked.

[RT1957]

I would love to carry this on Ron.

But chances are I will be once again banned for conversing about it on these boards.

Also I dont want to see your thread locked.

There's no need to not have civil conversation about WO's......I'm not saying this is the best method for anyone but I also think there are a lot of misconceptions about what went down during that time period. This is a bodybuilding website and I'm talking about a style of bodybuilding....

We could almost talk about golf...everyone has a different level they will get to....that is also a given.....sometime it can be genetic's and sometimes it can be application...did someone fail from lack of ability or lack of application....Also what level are we taking this too.....Mr Olympia has no other path....putting an inch on your arms possibly does...if that's the goal..

You guys decided you wanted to squat heavy weight and you have....because you worked in the parameters and believed it was possible...yet there will be a limit...who knows where that is....

If you'd like you can yell at me in a PM

[shaneinga]

Good convo going on in here, but I think before assumptions are being made about Doc's program. Why you don't you come right out and ask the guy who is running it the question, why am I running it?

Or for that matter, what am I hoping to get out of it?

I don't care about by my power lifting numbers. Seriously. I know that is shocking in the over 35 journals, but I really couldn't care less. There was a time when I did.

I got my BP up to 265 for a single, I hit 435 on deads and hit a 330 squat and I realized I would never be happy chasing weights. I was never satisfied. I hit 315 on squats and immediately it was ok now let's get 365. I never even took time to sit back and say, damn you finally worked up to and nailed that 315 squat. Good job man. No, it was immediately on to 365.

I enjoy lifting weights, it is my time in the gym. It is a hobby that I don't plan to stop, ever.

My goals, to spend a life time lifting. Lose weight, be more agile and improve conditioning. I would like to play basketball with my son when he gets older.

I am after an athletic/aesthetic build an to be faster, stronger with an increased level of conditioning.

So there you have it. That is all I have been promised, and that is what I am chasing.

You won't see me on the cover of any Flex magazine anytime soon, and I don't expect those results either.

One more goal, get as close to beach ready by September as possible. That is a goal that we are focusing on right now.

[RT1957]

Good convo going on in here, but I think before assumptions are being made about Doc's program. Why you don't you come right out and ask the guy who is running it the question, why am I running it?

Or for that matter, what am I hoping to get out of it?

I don't care about by my power lifting numbers. Seriously. I know that is shocking in the over 35 journals, but I really couldn't care less. There was a time when I did.

I got my BP up to 265 for a single, I hit 435 on deads and hit a 330 squat and I realized I would never be happy chasing weights. I was never satisfied. I hit 315 on squats and immediately it was ok now let's get 365. I never even took time to sit back and say, damn you finally worked up to and nailed that 315 squat. Good job man. No, it was immediately on to 365.

I enjoy lifting weights, it is my time in the gym. It is a hobby that I don't plan to stop, ever.

My goals, to spend a life time lifting. Lose weight, be more agile and improve conditioning. I would like to play basketball with my son when he gets older.

I am after an athletic/aesthetic build an to be faster, stronger with an increased level of conditioning.

So there you have it. That is all I have been promised, and that is what I am chasing.

You won't see me on the cover of any Flex magazine anytime soon, and I don't expect those results either.

I think the biggest problem in this convo is expectation levels, It either Mr Olympia or your stuck with an 11 inch arm...there seems to be no in between and there's a whole world of difference between being jacked and being Mr Olympia....I was lucky enough to be within 2 feet of Mr Olympia in 1975 as he guest posed in SF at a local contest...That posing routine he did that night is in Pumping Iron......supplements or not I wasn't gonna get there.....it didn't mean I couldn't look good....or put on mass....I also saw Franco Colombo blow up a hot water bottle that night and bend rebar....Honestly the best symmetry was a guy named Robby Robinson....I would have rather looked like him than anyone at the time....just standing there he had the best relaxed look....little tiny waist huge delts lats and arms and good legs....no calfs...genetics....even the big boys have limitation...Note you never see Arnolds Left bicep from the front or side...His peak was on the right arm....His left Bicep was longer and didn't have quite as high of a peak....so they also posed to hide weaknesses and could do their own routines....

None of this guarantees you'll be huge just like running 531 doesn't guarantee you'll be an elite lifter.....its method to try...it worked for me...but of course it wasn't how I first started I ran the full body 3 day a week program for about 6 months then went to splits and more volume

Now if I was to take an untrained kid...I start him even farther back with all unilateral DB and KB work until I see balance from left to right then I'd put them on a basic strength program for a good 6 months 5X5 or 3X10(What I did) didn't know about 5x5 at the time...This could last for up to a year then I'd ask do you want to PL, BB or Oly...the applications would be different for what he picked

Everyone takes ideas to the extreme...there's a huge gap from looking good to being a competitive BBer......I'm just trying to help those who are having trouble with mass have another road to try...volume even then would vary....go to Dave's website and see all the different programs....you might be surprised some look like programs being ran here.....Not to mention if you want to learn about an era who better to go to then someone who was there....he was there......genetic freek....yes....but he took 10 years to find his limits...

http://www.davedraper.com/workout-routines.html

[Jtbny]

Good convo going on in here, but I think before assumptions are being made about Doc's program. Why you don't you come right out and ask the guy who is running it the question, why am I running it?

Or for that matter, what am I hoping to get out of it?

I don't care about by my power lifting numbers. Seriously. I know that is shocking in the over 35 journals, but I really couldn't care less. There was a time when I did.

I got my BP up to 265 for a single, I hit 435 on deads and hit a 330 squat and I realized I would never be happy chasing weights. I was never satisfied. I hit 315 on squats and immediately it was ok now let's get 365. I never even took time to sit back and say, damn you finally worked up to and nailed that 315 squat. Good job man. No, it was immediately on to 365.

I enjoy lifting weights, it is my time in the gym. It is a hobby that I don't plan to stop, ever.

My goals, to spend a life time lifting. Lose weight, be more agile and improve conditioning. I would like to play basketball with my son when he gets older.

I am after an athletic/aesthetic build an to be faster, stronger with an increased level of conditioning.

So there you have it. That is all I have been promised, and that is what I am chasing.

You won't see me on the cover of any Flex magazine anytime soon, and I don't expect those results either.

One more goal, get as close to beach ready by September as possible. That is a goal that we are focusing on right now.

Completely agree and respect those goals. If you are asking me why I don't come out and ask you about Docs program the simple answer is I'm not too concerned with it. Your goals are yours and whatever keeps you in the game is cool with me- I don't think I've ever discounted anyone's way of lifting; agree or disagree with the approach. I like watching how others get to their goals and have changed my own philosophy along the way to add in more rep work than most here even do, BBer or PLer. So, assuming all of us only chase 1rm on powerilfts isn't accurate. Hell, I'm doing high rep leg presses because of what I've seen in the journals from those who's goals differ from mine but I'm guided by the notion that getting stronger with the compounds will drive the train, not doing endless reps of machine and isolation work.

Honesty, I think most of us have similar goals as well. If we didn't there would be no diet discussion- we would all eat and lift and not worry about what happens. The difference is the delivery system and that's perfectly OK. Lifting heavy on the big compounds isn't the only way to gain muscle I think we all agree. It is the most effective way to add total quality mass while getting stronger for a natty, IMO, until you have many many years under the bar and developed a strong foundation. Its all about progression over time, you know this, I know this, we all know this. If its progress on how fast or slow a rep is done, adding reps, adding weight, ect its all going to stimulate some growth over time. The pace might be slower/faster depending on the delivery method but who cares. Enjoying what you do outweighs all.

Anyhow, I'm done discussing this. I don't want to see hurt feelz because of misinterpretations over the interweb. I think our similarities with lifestyle goals far out way our differences. Trust this- I'm the same person IRL as you see here. If I had a question or comment Id ask. I got involved because Ron felt the need to PM me about Tim's comment. I've always tried to be supportive in the journals where I can be. Ill continue to do just that no matter ones goals. I just don't want to be read that those of us who choose to lift heavy on the coumpounds are only concerned with chasing PRs because, to me, discounts all the other hard work we are doing and is a backhanded way of saying " we are doing it wrong".

[RT1957]

Completely agree and respect those goals. If you are asking me why I don't come out and ask you about Docs program the simple answer is I'm not too concerned with it. Your goals are yours and whatever keeps you in the game is cool with me- I don't think I've ever discounted anyone's way of lifting; agree or disagree with the approach. I like watching how others get to their goals and have changed my own philosophy along the way to add in more rep work than most here even do, BBer or PLer. So, assuming all of us only chase 1rm on powerilfts isn't accurate. Hell, I'm doing high rep leg presses because of what I've seen in the journals from those who's goals differ from mine but I'm guided by the notion that getting stronger with the compounds will drive the train, not doing endless reps of machine and isolation work.

Honesty, I think most of us have similar goals as well. If we didn't there would be no diet discussion- we would all eat and lift and not worry about what happens. The difference is the delivery system and that's perfectly OK. Lifting heavy on the big compounds isn't the only way to gain muscle I think we all agree. It is the most effective way to add total quality mass while getting stronger for a natty, IMO, until you have many many years under the bar and developed a strong foundation. Its all about progression over time, you know this, I know this, we all know this. If its progress on how fast or slow a rep is done, adding reps, adding weight, ect its all going to stimulate some growth over time. The pace might be slower/faster depending on the delivery method but who cares. Enjoying what you do outweighs all.

Anyhow, I'm done discussing this. I don't want to see hurt feelz because of misinterpretations over the interweb. I think our similarities with lifestyle goals far out way our differences. Trust this- I'm the same person IRL as you see here. If I had a question or comment Id ask. I got involved because Ron felt the need to PM me about Tim's comment. I've always tried to be supportive in the journals where I can be. Ill continue to do just that no matter ones goals. I just don't want to be read that those of us who choose to lift heavy are only concerned with chasing PRs because, to me, discounts all the other hard work we are doing and is a backhanded way of saying " we are doing it wrong".

You're not doing anything wrong. You compete in PL meets so PRs are what you need to strive for and that the application you need to work towards. For a casual guy wanting to look good PR's aren't the only option and again its about extremes.

John I have always lifted as heavy as I can...I do now the applications are different I don't BB anymore....for me I just want to try to get as strong as possible to fend off time....at 15 I wanted to be a BBer and actually my buddy and I would test out PRs every few months but it wasn't the ultimate goal. The goal was to be strong and look good...I was never going to be a strength athlete....didn't mean I couldn't look good and sill be somewhat strong

To be a competitive PLer your application is the method that works...so why would you think I'm putting that down. I'm all for PR's if that's your goal.....I'm also for adding mass if that's the goal

A bodybuilder application needs to be a little different as does his goals

I said above with a new trainee I take him through the basics then apply the methods for where the trainee wanted to go....all 3 method require lifting as heavy as possible within the parameters set. The ultimate goal is different

[RT1957]

I'm going to apologize today forgetting everyone so upset about an era of bodybuilding.

I'm a teacher and student in life...if you all like that or not....I spend most of my days teaching music to all ages and I hear all kinds of excuses....same with Bodybuilding.....there are a lot excuse laid at the door of one subject...and hard work and a belief system are laughed at....I laugh at those who discount that....I've involved myself in several activities that I took to higher level by study and a belief system that hard will produce results...It always has

Everyone's results will be different but of course if we all only look at one avenue and lay all the eggs there then I know for a fact that you've given up and there's no convincing me other wise...

As with all activities there are things that can be learned by exploring what people did. We all know the history but there was also a lot of hard work done to achieve what was achieved and that is being throw to the side by all the waa waa waa they did this crap....hard work was a huge part...so don't discount hard work

I'm going to ask one more question if you don't have a good answer I know you given up

Smolov squat program. Russian???.....they can't even get into the Olympics yet I see people run that......plug their numbers in....run the program...get the results but never consider it was written for Russian athletes...so how did you make those gainz if you not doing what the Russians are doing?....maybe a belief system and hard work was the key

I will continue to bring in 70's BBer's routines and talk about these guys....why not this is BBing.com and I believe there's a whole lot of great info to be learned and maybe some gainz to be made. No you won't look like them or win Mr Olympia but ya might put some size on your body and have fun in the process

If anyone wants to get upset....that's at your door and for you to deal with.....so go whine somewhere else...I don't need the already defeated and deflated

If anyone wants to explore the great golden era lets have some fun intelligent conversations....there a whole lot of information to explore and some interesting people with varied backgrounds....its great stuff

Be happy we're not curing cancer here so lighten up

[mirroroferised]

I was going to come bearing spoons but I wasn't sure if that was appropriate.


I dunno Ron. I ran smolov (you have too iirc but maybe I don't) the bench program helped me quite a bit I felt and I'll run it again at some point. The squat program was a bit of a disaster for me...on test day and for a good few weeks after. Live and learn. I'd say that was a bit too advanced for me maybe. I just like having fun and trying things out personally. To me this is a lifestyle change and I'll just keep pushing myself in different ways. This beats my old lifestyle by a country mile and I'm happy with just staying happy and having experiences Sometimes I'll chase pr's and sometimes I'll train in a higher rep range and sometimes I'll train lower reps higher weights. At the end of the day for me I know I look a hell of a lot different than I did 2 1/2 years ago and I'm a hell of a lot stronger too. Win!

I'm always interested in learning more about different styles of training so I'll be reading along. I don't want to get involved in what ever is going on around here lately so I'll just be in lurk mode mostly but since I'm a regular "attaboy" contributor around here I figured the least I could do was offer up something

[RT1957]

I was going to come bearing spoons but I wasn't sure if that was appropriate.


I dunno Ron. I ran smolov (you have too iirc but maybe I don't) the bench program helped me quite a bit I felt and I'll run it again at some point. The squat program was a bit of a disaster for me...on test day and for a good few weeks after. Live and learn. I'd say that was a bit too advanced for me maybe. I just like having fun and trying things out personally. To me this is a lifestyle change and I'll just keep pushing myself in different ways. This beats my old lifestyle by a country mile and I'm happy with just staying happy and having experiences Sometimes I'll chase pr's and sometimes I'll train in a higher rep range and sometimes I'll train lower reps higher weights. At the end of the day for me I know I look a hell of a lot different than I did 2 1/2 years ago and I'm a hell of a lot stronger too. Win!

I'm always interested in learning more about different styles of training so I'll be reading along. I don't want to get involved in what ever is going on around here lately so I'll just be in lurk mode mostly but since I'm a regular "attaboy" contributor around here I figured the least I could do was offer up something

I love it Dave....you ran smolov because you believed it would work...I believe running BBing routines will work too....its the extremes that people take their thoughts to that prevents progress...If they don't end up looking like Arnold why try...well you'll never look like Arnold either way...doesn't mean you won't make gainz....its about progress and applying parameters to achieve a goal. In BBing the goals need to be small increments not take my 11" arm to 20 in 4 cycles...

Its the unrealistic expectations that prevent people from getting progress...in a PL routine there are numbers to follow in BBing there isn't...its how you look and what areas of your body are lagging behind.

[RT1957]

We can't talk about BBing without discussing Steve Reeves

Steve at 16 in 1940


The Steve Reeves Full Body Workout

This is one of Reeves’ typical workout routines which is essentially a full body workout built around the basic compound lifts.
Steve was not a fan of the muscle group splits which grace most bodybuilding magazines on the shelves today, instead favoring a comprehensive and intense full body workout with rest days in between each session.
There’s nothing fancy here, just a simple onslaught of exercises, sets and reps from all angles.
Reeves claimed to have gained 30 pounds of muscle in just 4 months by using this routine!

Exercise Sets Reps
Dumbbell Swings (warmup) 3 15-20
Upright Rows 3 8-12
Bench Press 3 8-12
One Arm Row 3 8-12
Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 8-12
Incline Bench Press 3 8-12
Tricep Press Down 3 8-12
Barbell Curls 3 8-12
Seated Dumbbell Curls 3 8-12
Squats (super set with next move) 3 8-12
Pull Overs 3 8-12
Breathing Squats (super set with next move) 1 20
Breathing Pull Overs 1 20
Deadlifts 2 8-12
Good Mornings 2 8-12


Training Notes:
Schedule
This full body workout should be performed three times per week. Because of the volume and intensity of this routine, you will definitely need those rest days for recovery. Reeves himself recommended a minimum of 48 hours of rest between each workout.
Rest
This routine should be performed at a very high intensity, taking 45 seconds rest between sets and 2-3 minutes rest between exercises.
Form
Reeves was a stickler for perfect form. Each rep you perform should be slow and controlled with no bouncing, jerking or swinging of the bar or dumbbells. Keep performing reps until you can no longer complete a rep without perfect form. Poor or degrading from will only hinder progress.
Tempo
Each exercise should comprise a 2 second concentric movement and a 3 second eccentric movement. (i.e. 2 seconds to lift the weight & 3 seconds to lower the weight)
Progression
For every exercise in this routine, start with a weight which you can lift for the required reps with 100% perfect form. Once you can squeeze out more reps than the stated amount, add more weight.
Rinse and repeat!
Exercise Order
Reeves was a firm believer in working his smaller muscle groups first and working towards the larger muscles later in the workout (the opposite of how most people structure their workouts). The idea here is that you will be fully warmed up and raring to go when it comes to that brutal set of breathing squats!


Steve's macro break down was 20% fats 20% protein and 60% carbs.....It worked for him



A Great classic phyique....

deload workout later today...

[MooseTequila]

WOW... I missed a lot in here while I was gone... and probably for the best
I am changing my program next week... great timing!
And WTF is Zane? Dude was cool...

Grabbing so low cal popcorn...

[RT1957]

WOW... I missed a lot in here while I was gone... and probably for the best
I am changing my program next week... great timing!
And WTF is Zane? Dude was cool...

Grabbing so low cal popcorn...

Zane tomorrow....

[RT1957]

2016 Cycle 6 W3 Deload
Cycle training
Morning weight: No weigh in this morning


Reps X Weight X Sets

Warmups
BW Squats
10 X BW X 2

Back Ext
10 X 20 X 2

PVC Rotations & Dislocations
RC Flies & Waves
Battle Rope waves & Oscillations 40 each

Cycle training Pause squats – Incline BP – TRX Delt flies

Pause squats
3 X 115 X 1
3 X 135 X 1
3 X 145 X 1
3 X 155 X 1
3 X 165 X 1
3 X 175 X 1

Pause Squats 3 X 175


Incline BP
10 X Bar X 1
3 X 95 X 1
3 X 115 X 1
3 X 125 X 1
3 X 135 X 1
3 X 145 X 1
2 X 160 X 1 Failed on rep 3

Incline BP 2 X 160 plus roll of shame


TRX Delt flies
8 X BW X 6

Deload cycle training today. Very hot again in the garage so I took my time and rested as long as I felt needed to not dehydrate. Tried 160 on Incline got 2 had to do a roll of shame on rep 3....

I'll get in one more full body cycle WO then on to cycle 7 which I need to get programmed

[RT1957]

Here's some great info from Juggernaut Training Systems about how they wave through different cycles.

During the hypertrophy phase it 60 - 75% 6 - 12 reps and 15 - 30 sets directed at the lift per week.....Not just 15 - 30 sets of the main lift but a combination of the lift and accessories. He explains...

15 - 30 sets a week would be what a BBer would do for body parts they just wouldn't go to the other phases Chad Westley Smith talks about for PL

This is a great vid


Different applications for different results

[wishiwasdivin]

Paused squats and bench are looking good man, keep up the good work.

[DocJekyll]

Paused work looked really good there Ron. I actually thought you were going to eek out that 3rd incline rep.

Waiting on Zane. Keep cool.

[SteveWright1]

inclining bench press, double at 160lb = I shall get my coat

pretty impressive work on a deload session Ron

Steve Reeves, yep, now that is a physique I could be extremely proud of.

[RT1957]

Paused squats and bench are looking good man, keep up the good work.

Thanks Carl....I'm gonna keep working those pause squats...Really like them...hey your journal has been very quiet....

Paused work looked really good there Ron. I actually thought you were going to eek out that 3rd incline rep.

Waiting on Zane. Keep cool.

I never go to failure on deloads or Incline because I have no out so I was expecting to get rep 3....I lost it on the eccentric somehow because I wouldn't have tried that rep if I didn't think I could get it....got a nice strawberry on my gut from the center knurl and my belt when I did the roll of shame

inclining bench press, double at 160lb = I shall get my coat

pretty impressive work on a deload session Ron

Steve Reeves, yep, now that is a physique I could be extremely proud of.

It was my first attempt at 160 and I really thought I could get 3.....

I like the Golden era those who preceded it like Steve Reeves. There a whole lot of BS talk about how their routines won't work when the volume they did is exactly the volume talked about in the PL vid I put up last night. The exercise selection will be different.

I'm going to debunk the myths with modern and golden era methods...That vid totally blows out what everyone saying about high volume work requiring something more than really hard work. All of that depends on goals and personal values....how far in the future you'd like to take it and can you get over adult ADD with your training and stop listen to those who gave up....

Disclaimer....None of this will make you Mr. Olympia or make you look like any of these guys....but ya might put some mass on and have some fun if you break down the barriers in the brain.

Zane on the Whey

[RT1957]

Frank Zane....probably as close to a greek statue as you'll get



This is an on season routine they would change volume during the off season. But again they never got fat they ate to grow

I used this workout plan when training for Mr. Olympia and it was very successful for adding muscle mass during those years that I was at my best, between 1976 through 1983. First, I'll explain how I used the workout then. Following that, I'll show what changes I would make to the routine could I replay that whole period.


Growth Program

How I Did It Then


This is a three-way split, emphasizing Pulling muscles on Day One, Legs on Day Two, and Pushing muscles on Day Three:

Day 1 - Back, Biceps, Forearms, Abs.
Day 2 - Thighs, Calves, Abs.
Day 3 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Abs.

This routine helped me grow because I incorporated one (modified) power lifting movement into each workout. On day one it was the wide grip deadlift using straps (regular grip). I'd start my back workout with 6 sets of wide grip deadlifts, the first three from the floor - 15, 12, 10. Then I'd elevate the barbell so the plates would sit on boxes a foot high, or I'd use a power rack - 10, 10, 8, and sometimes a set of 6 if I felt up for it. I'd do plenty of stretching with the two-arm lat stretch between sets and take my time before venturing into the next set. My upper back, traps, and spinal erectors got much thicker doing this and my back got wider.

Next came T-Bar rows - 12, 10, 8, of course increasing the weight each set, and doing the two-arm lat stretch between sets. This is a great size-builder for the low central lats. My favorite way of doing it became using a 7-foot Olympic bar with one end in a corner, small diameter plates on the other end and using an interlocking finger grip right behind the collar. My upper body would follow the weight downward, stretching low to the floor and the plates would touch my ribcage at the top of the rep.

The remainder of the back routine consisted of front pulldowns - 3 x 8-10, two-arm lat stretch between sets; one arm dumbbell row - 3 x 8-10, two-arm lat stretch between sets. That gave me a total of 15 heavy sets for back. Then it was on to biceps.

A favorite routine of mine was to start with one arm dumbbell concentration curls, 3 x 8-10 each arm using more weight each set. I would very deliberately hold the dumbbell for one second at the top of the curl and squeeze the biceps for peak contraction, and then start lowering the dumbbell very slowly.

Alternate dumbbell curls came next, 3 x 8-10, increasing the weight each set. Each dumbbell would travel down and up and down completely before I curled the other dumbbell. Each negative would begin very slowly and I would pronate the dumbbell (turn it inward) on the way down.

Finally, 45-degree incline dumbbell curls, with lighter dumbbells, 12, 10, 8. I did a great deal of dumbbell work for biceps in those days, because it was the best. You can curl and supinate at the top of the movement with dumbbells.

After a total of nine sets for biceps, I'd tackle forearms with barbell reverse curls, 12 reps super-setted with seated barbell wrist curls, 20 reps. Two super sets. After each set of curls and forearm exercises I held the pronated arms back stretch for 15 seconds. This gave me a total of 15 sets for back, 9 for biceps, and 4 for forearms, adding up to 28 total sets in the workout, which proved to be enough for growth.

Because of the heavy deadlifts, I preferred to take the next day off from training because squatting was my main movement. Not a good idea squatting with a sore lower back. So, after the rest day I started my leg routine with a few sets of one-legged top extensions to get some blood in the knees, and then started my 6 sets of barbell squats - 15, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. I did below parallel squats doing slower negatives than positives.

Next exercise was the leg press - 15, 12, 10. Leg presses always felt light after heavy squats and I did higher reps to get an overall pump in the thighs. I never went extremely heavy in this one, but concentrated on going deep into the negative and then not quite locking out at the end of the rep. This it was lying leg curls - 12, 11, 10, followed by the one leg up stretch between sets.

I ended the thigh workout with 3 sets of leg extensions - 12, 10, 8 on my trusty old Nautilus machine. Training for the Mr. Olympia in 1979 I became very strong on this one, doing 10 slow reps with 275.

Calves were up next and I did the calf stretch for 15 seconds after each set. Standing calf raise - 3 x15-20. I kept my knees slightly bent so I could get a deeper stretch at the bottom. Donkey calf raise - 4 x 20-25. Seated calf raise - since it's hard on the Achilles tendon, I always do this one last, usually one four-part drop set, without rest doing 120x5, 110x5, 100x5, 90x5, then do calf stretch for 15 seconds after wards.

Ab work ended the leg day routine, which was usually anything except hanging knee ups in order to give the upper body a rest.

My main exercise on day three's program was the barbell bench press, with a shoulder width grip to put more emphasis on pecs, front delts and triceps. I didn't quite lock out at the top, and did doorway stretches between sets - 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2. These were all done with slow negatives. After I finished the bench presses I did 70-degree incline dumbbell presses - 10 reps, drop angle for 8 reps, drop angle for 6 reps, drop angle for 4-6 reps. All with slow negatives, not quite locking out at the top of each rep. By now my pecs and front delts were really pumped and I'd keep doing doorway stretches between sets.

Next came 10-degree decline dumbbell flies for 12, 10, 8, doing the doorway stretches and flexing the pecs between sets. Then it was the dumbbell pullover lying across a bench, mainly for serratus.



It also expanded my ribcage, pumped up my lower pecs, and really developed the posterior head of my triceps. I got quite strong on this one and did 12, 10, and 8, doing the one arm overhead shoulder stretch between sets.

Next, I moved on to triceps and started with close grip bench presses with hands about 12 inches apart, elbows pointed out to emphasize outer triceps, lowering the weight to the chest slowly and not quite locking out at the top. 12, 10, 8, arms back stretch between sets.

One arm overhead extensions came next. I'd hold onto a support and lean slightly backwards, making sure to let the weight down deeply behind my back and then, keeping my upper arm close to my head, not quite lock out at the top of the exercise. 12, 10, 8, holding one arm shoulder stretch for 15 seconds with each arm between sets.

My final exercise for triceps was the V-grip pressdown, holding the contraction for a full second each rep. 12, 10, 8, doing arms back stretch between sets. After triceps work I was ready to finish off deltoids. I already worked the front delts with the pressing, so all that was left now was an exercise for rear delts and something for the side or lateral heads. Bent over dumbbell lateral raise was my preferred exercise in those days. I'd bet behind a T bar or leg roller on a leg curl machine and lean as far forward as I could, grab not-so-heavy dumbbells and do 15, 12, and 10 with rear delt stretches between each set. My last exercise for delts was the side cable raise - 12, 10, 8. Sometimes I'd do 3 x 12 nonstop arm-to-arm.

Ab work was always at the end of my workout and my plan was to gradually increase the total amount of reps right up until contest time until I was doing 1,000 total reps at each workout. Often I came back to the gym later in the afternoon to do this and it usually took me a half hour of nonstop ab exercises to complete it. The minimum program was leg raise 4x25 superset with ab crunches 4x25, followed by 100 seated twists. As I progressed in my ab work I'd add to this 4 sets of 25 hanging knee ups superset with 4 sets of 25 two-arm overhead cable crunches followed by 100 more seated twists. After that I'd ride a stationary bike for 15-20 minutes or run a slow mile and a half.



Growth Program

How I'd Do It Now

If you refer to my book, Workouts From Personal Training Diaries, you will find over 180 different workouts I did over a 40-year period of time. Variations of the above routine will be found in there as well.

Paperback edition sold out, available only in Kindle or Nook
http://www.amazon.com/The-Workouts-P...dp/B008BMOYCE/
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-...=2940014798129

In general, I'd go to the gym with a routine in mind but as I trained, I made slight variations in it, like changing the order of the exercises, or substituting a new movement. Nothing drastic, but no two workouts, although similar, were ever exactly the same. I used the Growth Routine in my training for the 1979 Mr. Olympia and something similar for the 1982 Mr. Olympia competition as well. I did a 4 day cycle, training 3 days out of 4, three days in a row and resting the fourth day. I was hard and I got really sore from it. I needed lots of rest and noticed a tendency to become overtrained after about a month on this 4 day cycle so I took a few extra days off every month.

If I were to do that again, I'd do a 5,5,5,6 day cycle (train 3 days out of 5 three times in a row, then train 3 days out of 6 once; repeat). This is something I recently thought up and I like the idea because it forms a 3 week cycle and gives enough rest so you can grow. When I did 3 days on, 1 day off, (i.e. the 4 day cycle) I was tired a lot and usually became overtrained after about one month of this kind of torture. But with this new cycle overtraining has less of a chance of occurring. You'll get more rest between workouts, be stronger and grow more. Here's how it repeats itself every 3 weeks. Remember that Day 1 is back, biceps, forearms; Day 2 legs; and Day 3 chest, shoulders, triceps. R means rest day.

Week One
Mon - 1
Tues - R
Wed - 2
Thurs - 3
Fri - R
Sat - 1
Sun - R

Week Two
Mon - 2
Tues - 3
Wed - R
Thurs - 1
Fri - R
Sat - 2
Sun - 3

Week Three
Mon - R
Tues - 1
Wed - R
Thurs - 2
Fri - R
Sat - 3
Sun - R

And then the cycle repeats itself exactly in the pattern every three weeks providing you don't miss. So, every 3 weeks you train each workout 4 times, you have 9 rest days and 12 workout days. Notice you always have Fridays off. And you can always have the same day off depending on when you start the cycle. Start in on Monday and every Friday off. Start on Tuesday and get every Saturday off. Start it on Wednesday and get every Sunday off, etc.

Of course, there are other ways to arrange your workouts in this three way split, but why do a three way split in the first place?

1) Since you divide your body into three sections instead of two you can do more work for each section. You have longer to recuperate between each time you work a specific part of the body.

2) It's easier to tolerate only a small part of your body being sore from exercising instead of your entire body or entire upper body being wiped out.



Note his sets and reps fall exactly in the middle of the Hypertrophy phase of that PL vid from Juggernaut ....9 sets for biceps and 9 sets for triceps would be 18 sets a week each...closer to the bottom end than the top of the 15 - 30 suggested in the vid for growth...

Reg Park tomorrow

[shaneinga]

Nice article and write up Ron. In for part 2.

[RT1957]

Nice article and write up Ron. In for part 2.

I will be displaying different guys each day going through their routine and showing that their volume will fall right along with Modern Standards...Juggernauts standards fall right in line with Franks volume and in fact he's on the low end of their volume spectrum.

The difference...exercise selection

[raynerd]

Excellent paused squat work and those inclines are picking up strength nicely Ron! Graceful roll of shame I may add
Love me some Feank Zane!

[DocJekyll]

Nice write up on Zane. I'm a fan - but you probably already guessed that...

[RT1957]

Excellent paused squat work and those inclines are picking up strength nicely Ron! Graceful roll of shame I may add
Love me some Feank Zane!

Thanks Shawn....I think during my regular cycle I would have gotten that rep....my brain is in deload mode.....roll of shame will never happen again on Inclines.....I really thought I'd get that rep....

Frank Zane actually beat Arnold at the Mr Universe in the late 60's....

Nice write up on Zane. I'm a fan - but you probably already guessed that...

Lots of great info out there...I'm just bringing it here as a little library of the Golden era for all of us to use as needed.....lots of misinformation about what they did....So lets go to the source and see what they really have to say....

[NoCarbsNoSugar]

A guy steps away for a while and boy, he misses a lot in here...

On a different subject, Ron, I forget what your main instrument was. I remember we talked a bit about your music career but I don't recall if I ever asked you what you played.

A lot going on on your log.
Always.

[RT1957]

A guy steps away for a while and boy, he misses a lot in here...

On a different subject, Ron, I forget what your main instrument was. I remember we talked a bit about your music career but I don't recall if I ever asked you what you played.

A lot going on on your log.
Always.

My main instrument is Guitar I started at 6..... I learned Piano at 18 when I was studying music in college...I learned to tune Pianos in the late 1980's because it pays very well and I thought it was interesting at the time...I've always studied in life about lot of things...

On another RL note I just got hired to teach music in the public school system here in CA....its only a few days a week but it pays well for the time involved and it'll fill in some extra time I have open now....

It will be an introduction to music for k - 5 so I gotta learn a bunch the kiddy tunes...It'll be fun...half hour classes in the classroom. They said I'll probably start out with Kindergarten and 1st grade...As I come up to speed there can be more hours and even better pay...starts at 44 an hour now so not bad...close to what I made as a programmer...not quite but close

Hope you enjoy my exploration into 70s' style BBing and how their workouts are not so outrageous that you can't have some fun and possibly make some gainz...if your head is in the right place....and you follow the parameters and eat like you want to get big!!! I'll say that again you need to eat like you want to get big!!!...not fat....big difference...You need to feed the beast to create the beast