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    Federal Court & U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: Atheism is Religion

    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    Atheists consistently attempt to take the higher ground by insisting Christians are mental midgets for believing in a non-existent "sky god." They insist that the Judeo-Christian Bible is a book of fairytales. At one website where I have debated, the Bible was routinely referred to by atheists as the BuyBull. Not only that, in most of my conversations with atheists at various websites, their usual accusation is that because of the belief in God, theists have committed all sorts of human rights violations in the name of "cultish religions." According to the many atheists I have debated at other websites, it is the belief in God that has caused people to commit the various atrocities common to mankind. Remove religion, belief in God, and belief in the Bible--the atheists argue--and the world will be a better place. This latter conclusion is mortally flawed for the following reasons:

    1. Atheists have committed human rights violations en masse throughout history. For instance, Joseph Stalin--the atheist--ordered the deaths of between 40 million to 62 million people (20 million of which were everyday Soviet civilians), compared to the 9 million or so killed by Adolph Hitler the Roman Catholic who merely claimed he was a Christian.

    In reality, the problem is not the Bible or God. The problem is people, including those in false religions which have failed to teach the masses Biblical truths. An appreciation for Biblical truths and Jehovah's righteous standards of what's right and what's wrong is the only detriment against people committing human rights violations. Blaming God for the crimes of false Christians and other false religions is an attempt at passing the buck.


    "See! This only I have found, that the true God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans." (Ecclesiastes 7:29)


    "They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!" (Deuteronomy 32:5)


    2. Atheism is itself a religion. While atheist will argue that they don't believe in any god, the issue is not merely non-belief in God or gods but in having ANY sort of belief system that is vitally important in one's life. The belief system of atheism is centered around the default atheist philosophy of "Secular Humanism."


    3. Atheism is a religion according to a 2005 Wisconsin Federal Court ruling on the matter of Kaufman v. McCaughtry, as well as the Torcaso v. Watkins case by the 1961 U.S. Supreme Court—the highest court in the land—where court rulings become national law.
    Last edited by Alter2Ego; 02-23-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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    Sweet does that mean I don't have to pay taxes anymore?
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    OP deserves to be red.
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    Originally Posted by chimburgandy View Post
    Sweet does that mean I don't have to pay taxes anymore?
    Ooooh, can I become an atheist priest and get in on that tax exempt goodness?
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    Registered User Alter2Ego's Avatar
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    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    As you can see, four members of the Religion of Atheism have shown up in my thread with nothing resembling a rebuttal to my OP.

    It so happens that science is the atheists' god, particularly science fiction aka making claims for which there is no supporting evidence. Secular Humanism is the default atheist theology/philosophy. Charles Darwin's science fiction book Origin of Species is the atheists' bible, while the usual credentialed papers from the pro-evolution scientific camp is their religious literature.

    Need I say more?


    BTW: I will provide quotations from court transcripts and other sources as evidence that Atheism is Religion. Because I can't provide the weblinks to the quoted sources until after I've reached 50 posts, I am holding off on the evidence from quoted sources for now.
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    Calling my house an organized place of non worship or an atheist sanctuary for tax exemptions.
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    Atheists consistently attempt to take the higher ground by insisting Christians are mental midgets for believing in a non-existent "sky god." They insist that the Judeo-Christian Bible is a book of fairytales. At one website where I have debated, the Bible was routinely referred to by atheists as the BuyBull. Not only that, in most of my conversations with atheists at various websites, their usual accusation is that because of the belief in God, theists have committed all sorts of human rights violations in the name of "cultish religions." According to the many atheists I have debated at other websites, it is the belief in God that has caused people to commit the various atrocities common to mankind. Remove religion, belief in God, and belief in the Bible--the atheists argue--and the world will be a better place. This latter conclusion is mortally flawed for the following reasons:

    1. Atheists have committed human rights violations en masse throughout history. For instance, Joseph Stalin--the atheist--ordered the deaths of between 40 million to 62 million people (20 million of which were everyday Soviet civilians), compared to the 9 million or so killed by Adolph Hitler the Roman Catholic who merely claimed he was a Christian.

    In reality, the problem is not the Bible or God. The problem is people, including those in false religions which have failed to teach the masses Biblical truths. An appreciation for Biblical truths and Jehovah's righteous standards of what's right and what's wrong is the only detriment against people committing human rights violations. Blaming God for the crimes of false Christians and other false religions is an attempt at passing the buck.


    "See! This only I have found, that the true God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans." (Ecclesiastes 7:29)


    "They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!" (Deuteronomy 32:5)


    2. Atheism is itself a religion. While atheist will argue that they don't believe in any god, the issue is not merely non-belief in God or gods but in having ANY sort of belief system that is vitally important in one's life. The belief system of atheism is centered around the default atheist philosophy of "Secular Humanism."


    3. Atheism is a religion according to a 2005 Wisconsin Federal Court ruling on the matter of Kaufman v. McCaughtry, as well as the Torcaso v. Watkins case by the 1961 U.S. Supreme Court—the highest court in the land—where court rulings become national law.
    Let's educated you for a second. Do you drink water? Yes? Well Joseph Stalin also a Water Drinker killed millions of people, how dare you drink water. That is how ridiculous your comment is, as atheists don't relate to each other, they simply believe in science and facts and don't believe there is a higher being because there is no evidence. Besides that, there is no relation among atheists.

    With religion you have a relation, you have people who are trying to force their religious beliefs, who are acting and committing heinous acts IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. No one is doing so in the name of atheism, because atheism is not a ****ing organization, religion, cult etc.....
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    As you can see, four members of the Religion of Atheism have shown up in my thread with nothing resembling a rebuttal to my OP.

    It so happens that science is the atheists' god, particularly science fiction aka making claims for which there is no supporting evidence. Secular Humanism is the default atheist theology/philosophy. Charles Darwin's science fiction book Origin of Species is the atheists' bible, while the usual credentialed papers from the pro-evolution scientific camp is their religious literature.

    Need I say more?


    BTW: I will provide quotations from court transcripts and other sources as evidence that Atheism is Religion. Because I can't provide the weblinks to the quoted sources until after I've reached 50 posts, I am holding off on the evidence from quoted sources for now.
    There is no god. You are a sucker. Get off your knees, nobody is answering you
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by MediaDeit View Post
    Let's educated you for a second. Do you drink water? Yes? Well Joseph Stalin also a Water Drinker killed millions of people, how dare you drink water. That is how ridiculous your comment is, as atheists don't relate to each other, they simply believe in science and facts and don't believe there is a higher being because there is no evidence. Besides that, there is no relation among atheists.

    With religion you have a relation, you have people who are trying to force their religious beliefs, who are acting and committing heinous acts IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. No one is doing so in the name of atheism, because atheism is not a ****ing organization, religion, cult etc.....
    ALTER2EGO -to- MEDIA DEIT:

    I mentioned Joseph Stalin and Adolph Hitler in my OP to make a point: That they were both monsters who did what they did despite the claim of being Christian (as in the case of Hitler) and despite the claim of not believing in God (as happened with Staliin).

    Your above argument (a familiar one from atheists) that people commit heinous acts in the name of religion is too simplistic. The root of the problem is false religious teachings that are in conflict with Biblical truths. It is the absence of true religion that is the driving force behind human atrocities. That applies to both the theists and the atheists, since Atheism is itself a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court.

    By the way, Stalin killed in the name of Atheism. I can quote a source that indicates this.
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    Originally Posted by CuriousGM View Post
    Ooooh, can I become an atheist priest and get in on that tax exempt goodness?
    Originally Posted by Staberella View Post
    Calling my house an organized place of non worship or an atheist sanctuary for tax exemptions.
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    I'm not sure why OP is trying to prove that Atheism is a religion. What exactly does that accomplish? How does it relate back to his first argument?...
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    Originally Posted by BenZowman View Post
    Naw I just want tax exemptions where I can get a group of people together once a week to socialize over a BYO potluck lunch, or pastries and coffee and do some charity work and a once a month bouldering and hiking meetup.

    Since I am not a staunch atheist and I hover more in the agnostic range (since we cannot prove or disprove the existence of any form of what us humans would consider God or a higher power indefinitely), I would also like to open a legit Alcoholics Anonymous program where you don't have to rely on a higher power as one of the requirements.

    You believe in God? Fine

    You don't believe in God? Fine

    Let's just stop drinking til we pass out.
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    Originally Posted by BEATINGU View Post
    Calling atheism a religion is an insult to religion.
    Originally Posted by MediaDeit View Post
    Let's educated you for a second. Do you drink water? Yes? Well Joseph Stalin also a Water Drinker killed millions of people, how dare you drink water. That is how ridiculous your comment is, as atheists don't relate to each other, they simply believe in science and facts and don't believe there is a higher being because there is no evidence. Besides that, there is no relation among atheists.
    ALTER2EGO -to- BEATINGU & MEDIA DEIT:
    There is nothing wrong with being part of a religion, and belief in a god or gods is not a requirement for being part of a religion. For instance the religions of Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, and Jainism are religions that do not require belief in a god. All that's required for an ideology to be considered "religion" is that it be an important part of a person's life. Notice the definition below from the dictionary. Keep your eyes on the words that are bolded at definition #5.

    DEFINITION OF "RELIGION:"

    Collins
    World English Dictionary
    religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)

    — n
    1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
    2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion
    3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers
    4. chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns: to enter religion
    5. something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion
    6. archaic
    a. the practice of sacred ritual observances
    b. sacred rites and ceremonies
    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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    It's ok, OP thinks "Scientifc Theories" aren't valid, not grasping the magnitude of the word theory in scientific terms. It's only a matter of time before he's proven wrong and abandons this thread to start another.
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- BEATINGU & MEDIA DEIT:
    World English Dictionary
    religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)

    — n
    1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
    2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion
    3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers
    4. chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns: to enter religion
    5. something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion
    6. archaic
    a. the practice of sacred ritual observances
    b. sacred rites and ceremonies
    lol @ football and atheism being lumped together as adequate examples of a religion.

    Atheism is looking at the door to religion, turning around, and walking away. How anyone lives their life after that is up to them, and how anyone can consider that the basis for a religion astounds me.
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    Originally Posted by Weightaholic View Post
    Sure it is... just like not collecting marbles is a hobby.
    very well said
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    Originally Posted by chimburgandy View Post
    It's ok, OP thinks "Scientifc Theories" aren't valid, not grasping the magnitude of the word theory in scientific terms. It's only a matter of time before he's proven wrong and abandons this thread to start another.
    I would like to add that Science and modern medicine would be a major discussion at my place of non worship, the major question would be re: nanotechnology and it's pros and cons vs. biotechnology and if nano could potentially start a zombie plague.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Lastman13 View Post
    I'm not sure why OP is trying to prove that Atheism is a religion. What exactly does that accomplish? How does it relate back to his first argument?...
    ALTER2EGO -to- LASTMAN13:
    This is a forum for discussion of politics and religion; is it not? It is a place where people have respectful discussions about world events; is it not? I don't see atheists complaining when they dump all religions in the same barrel and blame religious people for all of the various atrocities that have taken place throughout history. It turns out Secular Humanism is an alternative Atheist Religion. The point being, people need to stop pointing fingers at "religious people," because as it turns out, everybody on this planet is religious. They simply select alternative religious ideologies.

    BTW: I'm not trying to prove Atheism is a religion. The U.S. courts already did that. You seem to be ignoring the fact that it was the atheists themselves that filed lawsuits demanding their Atheist Religion rights.
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    The U.S. courts already did that. You seem to be ignoring the fact that it was the atheists themselves that filed lawsuits demanding their Atheist Religion rights.
    So what you are basically saying is that I can get tax exemptions while I serve food and pastries and discuss with other like minded non religious folks about what could potentially cause a zombie apocalypse? AWESOME. Who's in?
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    Originally Posted by chimburgandy View Post
    It's ok, OP thinks "Scientifc Theories" aren't valid, not grasping the magnitude of the word theory in scientific terms. It's only a matter of time before he's proven wrong and abandons this thread to start another.
    ALTER2EGO -to- CHIMBURGANDY:
    Correction. I said scientific "theory" is a far cry from scientific "fact". You seem convinced that Evolution theory is a done deal. Scientific theory and scientific fact are two entirely different things. Theories are nothing more than educated guesses/speculations. Not only that, scientific theories can be disproven and frequently are. A scientific "fact," on the other hand, is accompanied by evidence.

    Theory is merely an attempt at explaining why something occurred. If evidence is later discovered that disputes the theory, then the theory is discarded and replaced by an updated theory--until more evidence turns up that disputes the updated theory, etc.

    I will provide the definition of "scientific theory" and "scientific fact," along with weblink to the source, as soon as I am permitted to include weblinks in my posts (after I have posted 50 times). I will do that in my thread entitled "Genesis Creation v. Macroevolution Myth".
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    As you can see, four members of the Religion of Atheism have shown up in my thread with nothing resembling a rebuttal to my OP.
    Sure I did. A great rebuttal. You just didn't like it.
    So much universe, so little time.
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    Originally Posted by chimburgandy View Post
    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- BEATINGU & MEDIA DEIT:
    Collins
    World English Dictionary
    religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)

    — n
    1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
    2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion
    3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers
    4. chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns: to enter religion
    5. something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion
    6. archaic
    a. the practice of sacred ritual observances
    b. sacred rites and ceremonies
    lol @ football and atheism being lumped together as adequate examples of a religion.

    Atheism is looking at the door to religion, turning around, and walking away. How anyone lives their life after that is up to them, and how anyone can consider that the basis for a religion astounds me.
    ALTER2EGO -to- CHIMBURGANDY:

    You're missing the point. The word "religion" does not require belief in a god or gods. It simply requires that the ideology be of great importance to the person. As demonstrated by the definition above from the dictionary, people who are addicted to certain sports behave as if they worship the sport. They talk about the particular sport every chance they get and are glued to the TV when their team is playing, while ignoring their spouse and children and everything else around them during the game. The dictionary defines that type of behavior as "something of overwhelming importance to a person" aka RELIGION.
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    Oh wow guys, there may legitimately be tax exemptions available;

    It has occasionally been argued that the Supreme Court, in Torcaso v Watkins, "found" Secular Humanism to be a religion. This assertion is based on a reference, by Justice Black, in a footnote (number 11) to the court's finding, to court cases where organized groups of self-identified Humanists, or Ethicists, meeting on a regular basis to share and celebrate their beliefs, have been granted religious-based tax exemptions.
    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- CHIMBURGANDY:
    Correction. I said scientific "theory" is a far cry from scientific "fact". You seem convinced that Evolution theory is a done deal. Scientific theory and scientific fact are two entirely different things. Theories are nothing more than educated guesses/speculations. Not only that, scientific theories can be disproven and frequently are. A scientific "fact," on the other hand, is accompanied by evidence.

    Theory is merely an attempt at explaining why something occurred. If evidence is later discovered that disputes the theory, then the theory is discarded and replaced by an updated theory--until more evidence turns up that disputes the updated theory, etc.

    I will provide the definition of "scientific theory" and "scientific fact," along with weblink to the source, as soon as I am permitted to include weblinks in my posts (after I have posted 50 times). I will do that in my thread entitled "Genesis Creation v. Macroevolution Myth".
    As usual you're conflating common theory with scientific theory.

    Oh also op;

    However, such attempts to conflate non-religious, secular or scientific ideas and activities with religion have been explicitly rejected by subsequent courts, most notably Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, where U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III ruled that intelligent design is not science, that it "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents", and that the school district's promotion of it therefore violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (see Intelligent Design).[6] In fact, prior to its use by Justice Black, the term "Secular Humanism" had never before been used in any court case, and it is unclear why Justice Black used the term in this instance, other than to perhaps emphasize the groups' non-belief in any divine force.
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    too blue; didn't read
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    Originally Posted by CuriousGM View Post
    Oh wow guys, there may legitimately be tax exemptions available;





    As usual you're conflating common theory with scientific theory.

    Oh also op;



    You have a goodnight chief.
    That's it. I don't give a schit about labels such a s "religulous or religious". Every week I am going to start a group that discusses scientific theories with a heavy focus on nanotechnology and biotechnology with a HUGE sign in front of my place that says, "Better living through Science!"

    I will also encourage the group to donate to a medical charity.

    So I technically can start a weekly discussion group on zombies while serving pastries and tea while receiving tax exemptions. This is awesome.


    BRB starting meetup group, kinda srs.
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    Originally Posted by Staberella View Post
    That's it. I don't give a schit about labels such a s "religulous ot religious". Every week I am going to start a group that discusses scientific theories with a heavy focus on nanotechnology and biotechnology with a HUGE sign in front that says, "Better living through Science!"

    So I technically can start a weekly discussion group on zombies while serving pastries and tea while receiving tax exemptions. This is awesome.


    BRB starting meetup group, kinda srs.
    Sounds like your religion could use a new tax-free car.
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    Originally Posted by CuriousGM View Post
    Sounds like your religion could use a new tax-free car.
    Naw we in NY buddy, free Metrocards would be awesome though.
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    Originally Posted by CuriousGM View Post
    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- CHIMBURGANDY:
    Correction. I said scientific "theory" is a far cry from scientific "fact". You seem convinced that Evolution theory is a done deal. Scientific theory and scientific fact are two entirely different things. Theories are nothing more than educated guesses/speculations. Not only that, scientific theories can be disproven and frequently are. A scientific "fact," on the other hand, is accompanied by evidence.

    Theory is merely an attempt at explaining why something occurred. If evidence is later discovered that disputes the theory, then the theory is discarded and replaced by an updated theory--until more evidence turns up that disputes the updated theory, etc.

    I will provide the definition of "scientific theory" and "scientific fact," along with weblink to the source, as soon as I am permitted to include weblinks in my posts (after I have posted 50 times). I will do that in my thread entitled "Genesis Creation v. Macroevolution Myth".
    As usual you're conflating common theory with scientific theory.
    ALTER2EGO -to- CURIOUS GM:
    No, I'm not. Look at my last paragraph, quoted directly above, and you will notice that I was referring to "scientific theory." Not that the play of semantics makes much difference in any case, because theory is theory no matter whether it is "common" theory or "scientific" theory.
    Last edited by Alter2Ego; 02-23-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    [SIZE=3]No, I'm not. Look at my last paragraph, quoted directly above, and you will notice that I was referring to "scientific theory." Not that the play of semantics makes much difference in any case, because theory is theory no matter whether it is "common" theory or "scientific" theory.
    Thanks for the heads up dude on potential tax exemptions for the non religious. We found another loophole. God is also a theory btw...
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