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  1. #241
    Registered User Alter2Ego's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Judgment View Post
    1. Fine tuning.

    2. Appendix

    We have one.
    Judgment:

    For your information, the appendix serves a useful purpose.

    Appendix May Actually Have a Purpose

    "While there is no smoking gun, the abundance of circumstantial evidence makes a strong case for the role of the appendix as a place where the good bacteria can live safe and undisturbed until they are needed," researcher William Parker, PhD, assistant professor of experimental surgery at Duke University Medical Center, says in a news release."
    https://www.webmd.com/digestive-diso...have-purpose#1

    Not only that, the appendix is fine-tuned, indicating it was designed by an Intelligent Person. That Person happens to be Almighty God, the Creator of all things.


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    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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  2. #242
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    Judgment:

    For your information, the appendix serves a useful purpose.

    Appendix May Actually Have a Purpose

    "While there is no smoking gun, the abundance of circumstantial evidence makes a strong case for the role of the appendix as a place where the good bacteria can live safe and undisturbed until they are needed," researcher William Parker, PhD, assistant professor of experimental surgery at Duke University Medical Center, says in a news release."
    https://www.webmd.com/digestive-diso...have-purpose#1

    Not only that, the appendix is fine-tuned, indicating it was designed by an Intelligent Person. That Person happens to be Almighty God, the Creator of all things.


    Alter2Ego


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    Just had mine removed two weeks ago. All that fine tuning turned it cancerous.

    Thank you Jesus!
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  3. #243
    Banned Dorich's Avatar
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    Atheists are hypocrites.

    Where do they get their morals from?

    Christians get theirs from God.
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  4. #244
    America First. XterraRob's Avatar
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    OP, I consider myself an agnostic. I am open to the belief that there is something greater out there, and we're part of something we don't understand. In the same way mitochondria plays a role in our bodies but doesn't necessarily have the level of awareness to understand the bigger picture. So whether that greater something is "God" or what, who knows. I don't believe humans have the capacity to understand the universe on that level yet. I'd imagine every sentient entity, no matter what form it takes, no matter how simple or complex, feels they are the top of the chain from their perspective because they don't have the ability to understand anything beyond them.
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  5. #245
    Banned Dorich's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    OP, I consider myself an agnostic. I am open to the belief that there is something greater out there, and we're part of something we don't understand. In the same way mitochondria plays a role in our bodies but doesn't necessarily have the level of awareness to understand the bigger picture. So whether that greater something is "God" or what, who knows. I don't believe humans have the capacity to understand the universe on that level yet. I'd imagine every sentient entity, no matter what form it takes, no matter how simple or complex, feels they are the top of the chain from their perspective because they don't have the ability to understand anything beyond them.
    Do you feel positively towards Judeo-Christian values?
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  6. #246
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  7. #247
    America First. XterraRob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dorich View Post
    Do you feel positively towards Judeo-Christian values?
    Yes, it's a good basis for being a good Samaritan. And although I'm not religious, I find there is more value than not within them. For the benefit of all of society.
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  8. #248
    Registered User Alter2Ego's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    OP, I consider myself an agnostic. I am open to the belief that there is something greater out there, and we're part of something we don't understand. In the same way mitochondria plays a role in our bodies but doesn't necessarily have the level of awareness to understand the bigger picture. So whether that greater something is "God" or what, who knows. I don't believe humans have the capacity to understand the universe on that level yet. I'd imagine every sentient entity, no matter what form it takes, no matter how simple or complex, feels they are the top of the chain from their perspective because they don't have the ability to understand anything beyond them.
    XterraRob:

    If you choose to believe our universe, which is fine-tuned for life, resulted from a nameless "something greater out there," as you put it--suit yourself. The scientific evidence proves that precision cannot happen by itself.

    Agnostics prefer to sit on the fence, insisting they do not believe there is sufficient evidence for, or against, the existence of Jehovah. But here is the reality: Where Jehovah is concerned, one is either for the worship Him or against the worship of Him. Your fence-sitting position places you in the latter group, namely, against the worship of Almighty God--the exact same position taken by atheists.

    Simply put, telling me your are agnostic makes you no better off than an atheist, in that both of those groups refuse to worship the Creator.

    Keep on sitting on the fence, fella. You've made your choice.


    Alter2Ego


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  9. #249
    America First. XterraRob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    XterraRob:

    If you choose to believe our universe, which is fine-tuned for life, resulted from a nameless "something greater out there," as you put it--suit yourself. The scientific evidence proves that precision cannot happen by itself.

    Agnostics prefer to sit on the fence, insisting they do not believe there is sufficient evidence for, or against, the existence of Jehovah. But here is the reality: Where Jehovah is concerned, one is either for the worship Him or against the worship of Him. Your fence-sitting position places you in the latter group, namely, against the worship of Almighty God--the exact same position taken by atheists.

    Simply put, telling me your are agnostic makes you no better off than an atheist, in that both of those groups refuse to worship the Creator.

    Keep on sitting on the fence, fella. You've made your choice.


    Alter2Ego
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  10. #250
    I am the last line® Harbinger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    Everyone's spiritual development is unique to themselves. I'm not going to dictate or tell anyone that they are right or wrong about what they believe.
    I think OP means to say that precision in nature = evidence of Allah.
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  11. #251
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- TAMORLANE:

    Next you will be arguing that the computer you're using created itself at random. To hear you tell it, the computer that frequently breaks down and is in need of repairs--get this-- by an intelligent being (a human) must have had a creator (a human). But the far more complex universe, against which the computer looks like child's play, became "perfectly tuned" by itself, and this happened "out of 10000000000 trillion tries."

    Brilliant deduction!
    what the hell are you babbling about?

    it took humans about 250,000 years to develop a computer

    like what?
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  12. #252
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dorich View Post
    Atheists are hypocrites.

    Where do they get their morals from?

    Christians get theirs from God.
    Wait, I thought they got theirs from their appendix.
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  13. #253
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dorich View Post
    Do you feel positively towards Judeo-Christian values?
    Most (not all) of what are labeled Judeo-Christian values are in reality humanistic vales. The religion has just appropriated them, and then claimed to have invented them. But they exist independently of any religious sect.

    Remember, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."
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  14. #254
    Registered User boydwgrossii's Avatar
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    I would recommend Is Genesis History.

    Study on Genesis 1-11 as history, not poetry.
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  15. #255
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by boydwgrossii View Post
    I would recommend Is Genesis History.

    Study on Genesis 1-11 as history, not poetry.
    Extremely biased, pseudoscientific young-earth creationist nonsense that has been objectively shown to be false more than a century ago? No thanks, I'm good
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  16. #256
    Banned LogosMessenger's Avatar
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    The battle to convert an atheist is a futile one.

    It isn't a matter of logic or rationality, where person A believes that the you can reach to an atheist and change his way, so long as sufficient evidence, logic, and rationality are used, the atheist will convert.

    It doesn't work like that.

    Atheism is an inherent weakness in the character of the person. A weak, spineless, coward, beta male will always justify his characteristic flaws with atheism.

    Atheism is merely a means to an end.

    An astute observant will quickly notice a pattern with the general phenotype of the typical atheist: weak jaw, weak frame, frail bones, low muscle mass, very degenerate and "weak" looking. These types gravitate towards academic activities because they're meek in nature, and they have enough self awareness that they are on the low end of the male spectrum.

    This feeling of inferiority ultimately manifests itself into a hatred of God. More specifically, they question how God, in all his perfection, could make a creature as physically undesirable and inferior as THEM in this world. Their ultimate conclusion HAS to be that there's no way a God like that can exists. Ergo, God does not exist.

    It is an observable fact that the overwhelming majority of alpha males in society are Theists.

    Superstar athletes, tough, invincible combat fights, brave soldiers, world Leaders, etc., are all God fearing men.

    The football player who kneels down and points up to heaven when he scores a touchdown; the professional boxer who thanks God for his talent after a win, the MMA athlete who thanks Jesus Christ after a KO victory, the Soldier who kisses his cross before he valiantly chargers into the battlefield, the community Leader who attends Church every Sunday to interact with the people, the political leaders who kneel before the Pope, etc.,

    You will never be able to convince someone like Numberguy (his name alone suggests he narcissistic fetish for math), and you shouldn't.

    The path to God is a personal one. It isn't something someone can be convinced into by another person.

    It has to be from a battle within, in which the brave triumphs the coward. Many men don't face this battle until they're on their death bed.

    Arguing about whether God exists against an atheist is a complete waste of time when you know the reality of these people.
    Last edited by LogosMessenger; 11-09-2019 at 09:59 PM.
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  17. #257
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    ^^^

    Didn't read past the first sentence lol.

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  18. #258
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Most (not all) of what are labeled Judeo-Christian values are in reality humanistic vales. The religion has just appropriated them, and then claimed to have invented them. But they exist independently of any religious sect.

    Remember, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."
    A lot of truth in this post.
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  19. #259
    Banned LogosMessenger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by numberguy12 View Post
    ^^^

    Didn't read past the first sentence lol.

    Reds gonna red
    You read every line of my post, just like the last time you did, in which you got so enraged you had to resort to negging without a single reply.

    A person who didn't read a post wouldn't get so emotionally attached to the point of negging. Congrats on exposing yourself. edit: apparently, you read my post again and go so mad you had to neg again.

    This, despite the fact that you've shown time and time again you are willing to type out essays to defend your beliefs. But you won't reply, and you're going to back peddle with "hurr hurr, neg low IQ on sight".

    You read every line of my post, and it eats you up inside because of how close it hits close to home for you.

    You know deep down inside what I said about alpha males leaning overwhelmingly Theist is true. Any sane person with any semblance of observation can make that quick connection. It is an observable fact.

    But as I've said, that post wasn't for you. It was never meant for you, but thanks for bumping my post so more people can get black pilled on the nature of zealous atheists like you, and why they shouldn't waste time on trying to convert you.

    If anything, you should thank me for doing you a favor. Now less and less "low IQ Theists" will bother you with conversion, right?
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  20. #260
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  21. #261
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    Originally Posted by LogosMessenger View Post
    You read every line of my post, just like the last time you did, in which you got so enraged you had to resort to negging without a single reply.

    A person who didn't read a post wouldn't get so emotionally attached to the point of negging. Congrats on exposing yourself. edit: apparently, you read my post again and go so mad you had to neg again.

    This, despite the fact that you've shown time and time again you are willing to type out essays to defend your beliefs. But you won't reply, and you're going to back peddle with "hurr hurr, neg low IQ on sight".

    You read every line of my post, and it eats you up inside because of how close it hits close to home for you.

    You know deep down inside what I said about alpha males leaning overwhelmingly Theist is true. Any sane person with any semblance of observation can make that quick connection. It is an observable fact.

    But as I've said, that post wasn't for you. It was never meant for you, but thanks for bumping my post so more people can get black pilled on the nature of zealous atheists like you, and why they shouldn't waste time on trying to convert you.

    If anything, you should thank me for doing you a favor. Now less and less "low IQ Theists" will bother you with conversion, right?
    Didn't read lol
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  22. #262
    Banned LogosMessenger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by numberguy12 View Post
    Didn't read lol
    Do you know what it feels like for me to reduce someone like you, who writes essays after essays, to 2 word sentences?

    Complete and utter satisfaction.
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  23. #263
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LogosMessenger View Post
    Do you know what it feels like for me to reduce someone like you, who writes essays after essays, to 2 word sentences?

    Complete and utter satisfaction.
    keep on believing in your magical sky fairy brotato, it wont make you any happier

    in fact, deep down you probably have a secret doubt, which you cover up by crazed fanaticism

    i mean, there's a chance you could wind up burning in hell for all eternity if you dont believe

    better believe boyo. your eternity depends on it. an eternity of torture. tortured forever - for all eternity - thats what awaits you...

    ...if you dont believe
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  24. #264
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    keep on believing in your magical sky fairy brotato, it wont make you any happier

    in fact, deep down you probably have a secret doubt, which you cover up by crazed fanaticism

    i mean, there's a chance you could wind up burning in hell for all eternity if you dont believe

    better believe boyo. your eternity depends on it. an eternity of torture. tortured forever - for all eternity - thats what awaits you...

    ...if you dont believe

    Very insightful.

    *tips fedora* m'lady.
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  25. #265
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    Originally Posted by LogosMessenger View Post
    The battle to convert an atheist is a futile one.

    It isn't a matter of logic or rationality, where person A believes that the you can reach to an atheist and change his way, so long as sufficient evidence, logic, and rationality are used, the atheist will convert.

    It doesn't work like that.
    To convert an atheist through logic, reason, and evidence, the theist would have to have those on his side. He doesn't.

    Consequently, virtually all conversions throughout history have been made on the basis of emotion, superstition, sex, money, or violence.
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  26. #266
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LogosMessenger View Post
    Do you know what it feels like for me to reduce someone like you, who writes essays after essays, to 2 word sentences?

    Complete and utter satisfaction.
    Huh, banned. There's a surprise.

    Always funny to see a shady, red, triggered, poster on here-clearly bent on attacking...attempting to defend Christianity, of all religions. Is this Jesus's way? The irony is almost astronomical lol
    Last edited by numberguy12; 11-10-2019 at 10:36 AM.
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  27. #267
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    The telelogical/fine-tuning argument for god is by far the worst one in the theist's arsenal. The reason for that is because it is only logically coherent in a naturalistic, not theistic universe.

    It may be true that if the physical conditions of the universe were different, life could not exist in any form. We do not know this for a certainty at all, and any such claim is purely speculative.

    If it were true however, it is only true in a naturalistic universe where there is no god. If there was a god, then the incidental physical conditions of the universe would NOT limit the formation of life. God is omnipotent, meaning even if the mass of the electron or the strength of the nuclear strong force were a billion times higher, or a billion times lower, than what they actually are, god could still will life into existence.

    To suggest that in a universe with god, changing the mass of the electron would result in life being unable to form, would be to suggest that god is restricted by the current laws of the universe, and thus is not omnipotent.

    Therefore the teleological argument is trash.
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  28. #268
    Banned Dorich's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Most (not all) of what are labeled Judeo-Christian values are in reality humanistic vales. The religion has just appropriated them, and then claimed to have invented them. But they exist independently of any religious sect.

    Remember, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."
    This is absurd.

    Sadism is also part of being human. Plenty of people have sadistic tendencies.

    Scenario A: There's a sadistic atheist on a deserted island where some innocent person is tied up, and the atheist knows 100% that there are no consequences for his actions, and he can do whatever he wants to this person.

    Scenario B: Same location except it's a sadistic Christian who fears God. He knows he won't wind up in prison whatever he does, but he believes in punishment from God.


    Which of those two human beings is more likely to end up torturing/abusing/killing that innocent person on the island?

    You are acting as if all humans are "great, kindhearted human beings" not because they fear consequences regardless whether it's the government/law or God, but because of some "humanistic" values. It's completely absurd.
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  29. #269
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    Instead of arguing over what we don’t agree on, maybe there are some practical bible principles we can all agree on? Someone should make a thread like that.
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  30. #270
    Devil's advocate GreatOldOne's Avatar
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    It's actually easier and scarier but you can argue a finely tuned Evil God a lot easier than a Good One.

    The appendix is just one of His Darkness's twisted pleasures there to surprise you and keep you constantly afraid.

    Finely-tuned destruction each in turn, on our way to universal heat death...with consciousness fleeing across the universe to the very last heat source which eventually goes out right on schedule.

    Bleak idea...but it should demonstrate a problem with the teleological approach.

    Finely tuned for what?

    Hmm...what did we assume in our premises that might not really be true?
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