Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

[ElrondHubbard]

Or an easier one is

two people on a desert island

both are instrinsically good people

one has been convinced by religion that the other is an evil infidel and the righteous moral thing to do would be to murder him in order to fulfil gods will

who is more likely to harm the other?

dorich used to be a half decent poster before he went full schizo multiple personality

He seems to be so enamored of what he believes to be his own superior intellect that he's essentially become the misc's Dunning-Kruger philosopher.

[Alter2Ego]

ALTER2EGO -to- TAMORLANE:
Next you will be arguing that the computer you're using created itself at random. To hear you tell it, the computer that frequently breaks down and is in need of repairs--get this-- by an intelligent being (a human) must have had a creator (a human). But the far more complex universe, against which the computer looks like child's play, became "perfectly tuned" by itself, and this happened "out of 10000000000 trillion tries."

Brilliant deduction!

what the hell are you babbling about?

it took humans about 250,000 years to develop a computer

like what?

sandaltan:

I am not interested in schoolyard insults, such as what you posted above (bolded in red). You need to behave like an adult by exercising a measure of self-discipline.

I am well aware, from reading some of the postings in other threads, that people routinely curse at and insult each other like out-of-control teenagers. I choose not to behave in that manner, and I will not tolerate others behaving like that towards me.

If you post anything else that is insulting to me--like the above--I will add you to my IGNORE list where you can join the other 10 people that are already there.

FYI: Adding someone to an Ignore List means everything that is posted by the "Ignored" person is no longer visible to the person who added them to their Ignore List. In other words, you will be posting to everybody else while I will be spared the effort of reading your postings.

Alter2Ego



________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

[sandaltan]

sandaltan:

I am not interested in schoolyard insults, such as what you posted above (bolded in red). You need to behave like an adult by exercising a measure of self-discipline.

I am well aware, from reading some of the postings in other threads, that people routinely curse at and insult each other like out-of-control teenagers. I choose not to behave in that manner, and I will not tolerate others behaving like that towards me.

If you post anything else that is insulting to me--like the above--I will add you to my IGNORE list where you can join the other 10 people that are already there.

FYI: Adding someone to an Ignore List means everything that is posted by the "Ignored" person is no longer visible to the person who added them to their Ignore List. In other words, you will be posting to everybody else while I will be spared the effort of reading your postings.

Alter2Ego



________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

thats fine but i sure wish you responded to the other 2/3 of my post instead of just complaining about the 1/3 you found offensive

[Alter2Ego]

To convert an atheist through logic, reason, and evidence, the theist would have to have those on his side. He doesn't.

Consequently, virtually all conversions throughout history have been made on the basis of emotion, superstition, sex, money, or violence.

ElrondHubbard:

This thread is not intended to "convert" atheists in light of the fact most of them are not interested in logic, reason, evidence, and truth. Most atheists are interested in unproven scientific theories such as evolution and big bang--neither of which have ever been replicated in any scientific laboratory, and both of which defy logic (expecting logical people to believe accidental events resulted in fine-tuning).

The intent of this thread is to present sound arguments for precision in nature, which atheists cannot overcome. Not one single atheist that showed up in this thread has presented an effective rebuttal to the scientific facts presented in my OP. You, for example, came up with the lame argument at Post 242 that your cancerous appendix had to be surgically removed and that therefore, the appendix is not evidence of fine tuning: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1591282241

you conveniently ignore the fact that out of the seven billion humans in existence, only a tiny few have ever contracted cancer of the appendix--indicating that the appendix is able to fight off most incidents of cancer aka fine-tuning. An example of the appendix' ability to fight off cancer is seen here, in the USA, which in the year 2018 had a population of 327.2 million people. Out of that 327.2 million people only 1,000 people got cancer of the appendix.

"Appendix cancer is rare, occurring in about 1,000 people in the United States each year. In those cases, abnormal cells grow wildly in your appendix (a small pouch connected to your colon with no known purpose) and form a tumor. Tumors can be either benign (non-cancerous) or malignant (cancerous)."
https://www.medstargeorgetowncancer....pendix-cancer/

You are also ignoring the fact, ElrondHubbard, that fine-tuning indicates something was designed and that it is performing at a high level for which it was designed:

Definition of fine-tune
transitive verb

1a: to adjust precisely so as to bring to the highest level of performance or effectiveness
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fine-tune

Anything that shows evidence of fine-tuning and/or design required a DESIGNER. In the case of the appendix, scientists have drawn the conclusion that the appendix is very important to the human body:

"Appendix May Actually Have a Purpose
Researchers Say the Appendix May Be a Place Where Good Bacteria Can Live Safely

By Jennifer Warner

New research suggests that the seemingly useless organ provides a safe haven for good bacteria to hang out in the gut.

Although the study stops short of providing direct proof of this proposed purpose for the appendix, researchers say there's a strong case to be made for the appendix based on new information about the role of bacteria in intestinal health."
https://www.webmd.com/digestive-diso...have-purpose#1

In other words, your argument that cancer in your appendix is proof the appendix is not fine-tuned is illogical.

Alter2Ego



________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

[ElrondHubbard]

ElrondHubbard:

This thread is not intended to "convert" atheists in light of the fact most of them are not interested in logic, reason, evidence, and truth. Most atheists are interested in unproven scientific theories such as evolution and big bang--neither of which have ever been replicated in any scientific laboratory, and both of which defy logic (expecting logical people to believe accidental events resulted in fine-tuning).

The intent of this thread is to present sound arguments for precision in nature, which atheists cannot overcome. Not one single atheist that showed up in this thread has presented an effective rebuttal to the scientific facts presented in my OP. You, for example, came up with the lame argument at Post 242 that your cancerous appendix had to be surgically removed and that therefore, the appendix is not evidence of fine tuning: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1591282241

you conveniently ignore the fact that out of the seven billion humans in existence, only a tiny few have ever contracted cancer of the appendix--indicating that the appendix is able to fight off most incidents of cancer aka fine-tuning. An example of the appendix' ability to fight off cancer is seen here, in the USA, which in the year 2018 had a population of 327.2 million people. Out of that 327.2 million people only 1,000 people got cancer of the appendix.

"Appendix cancer is rare, occurring in about 1,000 people in the United States each year. In those cases, abnormal cells grow wildly in your appendix (a small pouch connected to your colon with no known purpose) and form a tumor. Tumors can be either benign (non-cancerous) or malignant (cancerous)."
https://www.medstargeorgetowncancer....pendix-cancer/

You are also ignoring the fact, ElrondHubbard, that fine-tuning indicates something was designed and that it is performing at a high level for which it was designed:

Definition of fine-tune
transitive verb

1a: to adjust precisely so as to bring to the highest level of performance or effectiveness
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fine-tune

Anything that shows evidence of fine-tuning and/or design required a DESIGNER. In the case of the appendix, scientists have drawn the conclusion that the appendix is very important to the human body:

"Appendix May Actually Have a Purpose
Researchers Say the Appendix May Be a Place Where Good Bacteria Can Live Safely

By Jennifer Warner

New research suggests that the seemingly useless organ provides a safe haven for good bacteria to hang out in the gut.

Although the study stops short of providing direct proof of this proposed purpose for the appendix, researchers say there's a strong case to be made for the appendix based on new information about the role of bacteria in intestinal health."
https://www.webmd.com/digestive-diso...have-purpose#1

In other words, your argument that cancer in your appendix is proof the appendix is not fine-tuned is illogical.

Alter2Ego



________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

You have presented no such sound arguments at all, in fact, you’ve only demonstrated that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I agree that my cancer was rare. There is no lifestyle, family history, environmental, genetic, immunological, or infectious correlation to it. It’s completely random. That in itself goes against the “fine tuning” argument. A modern manufactured item, particularly one considered mission critical with modern quality control measures, does not fail randomly. But you made a bigger mistake in ignoring all the other ways an appendix can fail. Cancer is only one of them.

About 7% of the U.S. population contracts acute appendicitis at some point during their lives, usually during the younger half of it. About 40% of those require an appendectomy, or about 3% of the total population. That’s millions of people, a huge number. Again, items that we manufacture, that are legitimately intelligently designed, which are fine tuned for a specific function, do not suffer those failure rates. Cheap, consumable, disposable items do. That’s hardly an argument in favor of your designer, that it designed an organ that is expected to cause a painful, miserable death in a significant portion of the population which retains it. Are humans then cheap, disposable items from the standpoint of this designer? So it would seem, from your logic. Combine that with all the other bodily imperfections that could kill us without modern interventions, and your God looks far more malevolent than beneficent.

Further, you can’t even support your own provided definition for “fine tuned” in this case. All you have been able to say, at best, is that there seems to be some function for the appendix. That is a FAR cry from supporting the claim that the appendix is adjusted precisely ”so as to bring to the highest level of performance or effectiveness.” You don’t know, you have no idea, what the “highest level of performance or effectiveness” would even look like, so you can’t possibly claim that the appendix fulfills the requirements. All you can claim, again – AT BEST – is that it works “well enough”.

That’s the case with most of our biological components. They work well enough, until they don’t. Then they fail. Then we die. Usually with pain and suffering. Fine tuning? Precise? Not usually. Well enough is what we get.

With this precise, fine tuned appendix, people who have had it removed live just fine without it. In my case, the cancer from the appendix had also infiltrated my spleen, and that was removed as well. We have a much better defined knowledge of the spleens function in the human biological system, and guess what? We can live just fine without that too! I just need a few extra vaccinations to make up for what the spleen used to provide for my immune system, and I’m good to go.

And this is where the “fine tuning” argument totally falls apart. A system that is truly and precisely fine tuned, made of many interdependent components, is a fragile system. If one of those fine tuned parts breaks, the entire product fails. Biological systems are just the opposite. They are robust and adaptable, precisely because they are NOT fine tuned. They are usually redundant, inefficient, with many repetitive functions. That makes us much more survivable than we would be if we were fine tuned.

Yet even with all that robust survivability, if you anti-science religious fanatics had your way, we would be right back to those 70% infant mortality rates and sub-30 year life expectancies.

We don’t need your miraculous malevolence.

[ThisIsSceaming]

Even if the intelligent design argument were true, it just posits that there was a creator, not an all-knowing, loving, personal God that hears your thoughts and prayers.

[ElrondHubbard]

Even if the intelligent design argument were true, it just posits that there was a creator, not an all-knowing, loving, personal God that hears your thoughts and prayers.

That's correct. But those who promote the idea overwhelmingly tend to be evangelical christians who are using it as what they hope to be a more palatable proxy for their generalized creationist beliefs, and given a foot in the door will revert back to young-earth flat-earth preaching at the drop of a hat.

[PlanoLifter]

Even if the intelligent design argument were true, it just posits that there was a creator, not an all-knowing, loving, personal God that hears your thoughts and prayers.

If there is a creator, something with the power to create the universe and all its life, this creator is a sadistic prick. Look at all the suffering in our world alone. No way a loving and omnipotent creator would let this happen to its "children".

[numberguy12]

Not one single atheist that showed up in this thread has presented an effective rebuttal to the scientific facts presented in my OP.

Sorry, simply saying things does not make them true. Anyone can literally say anything. A reminder of this fact:

-lions are smaller than ants
-10 is an odd integer

There have been many responses to your non-argument OP (why even make assumptions about their religious stances, atheist or theist- they are simply raising objections to your flawed fine-tuning argument. A theist is capable of denying a flawed argument for God's existence). Keeping in mind the OP is not a good example of fine-tuning, and traditional fine-tuning arguments reference things like the dimensionless constants of nature being what they are to allow life to exist....here are some of the counterpoints raised, which you seem to be ignoring:

-the possibility of multiple universes (the one which we find ourselves in simply being a selection bias).
-it is unclear exactly what life could/could not exist in a universe with different fundamental constants.
-under the weak anthropic principle, a fine-tuned universe at best undermines a supernaturally created universe, according to basic arguments of conditional probability (more on this in the next post). This is a rather surprising result.
-As a poster above noted, a supernatural explanation is actually strengthened by a non-fine-tuned universe. In this case, an omnipotent deity could still enable life to exist even in a universe not finely tuned for life, since he can do anything he wants. An example, brought up in the paper I'm going to link in the following post: Michael Behe argued for intelligent design from a notion of irreducible complexity- that certain biological systems have been shown to be irreducibly complex (certainly by no means justified, but this is besides the point). That is, certain biological system require the intervention of an intelligent designer for them to come into existence (because the conditions of the universe are not in themselves life friendly to allow the systems to come into being by themselves). So you have this very strange phenomenon of theists arguing 1)against fine tuning to argue for God (intelligent design), and 2)for fine tuning to argue for God (fine-tuning arguments). You cant make these things up, lol.

None of the OP is convincing. There have been several responses, but the OP wont bother to respond to these various points.

[numberguy12]

^^^
The paper I referenced above

http://quasar.as.utexas.edu/anthropic.html

These authors make a case that the weak anthropic principle can only undermine the supernatural hypothesis, and the fine-tuning argument is flawed. It is based on considerations from conditional probability, so you have to know what this means to follow the paper, and a thorough understanding Bayes' theorem is helpful. Here is a basic example of conditional probability:

We write P[A|B] to mean Probability of event A, given event B. So if we have a random card face down from a normal deck of 52 playing cards, and A = card is black, and B = card is a spade, then P[A|B] = 1 [or certainty], whereas P[B|A] = 1/2. In general, P[A|B] = P[A and B] / P[B], or to put it in the garb of Bayes' theorem, P[A|B] = P[B|A]*P[A] / P[B].

The paper above first notes a flaw in fine-tuning arguments: they come down to starting with P[universe is life-friendly | universe is completely natural] must be very small [ie think how slim the chances are of the constants working out to be what they are in the life-friendly range in a natural universe].......and from this concluding P[universe is natural | universe is life-friendly] must be very small. But this, as the authors note, is a flawed argument. P[A|B] in no way is the same as P[B|A], as the trivial example of the playing cards above shows.

But they go further in the article: they note that fine-tuning arguments don't take into consideration all of what we know, including, importantly, that we exist. They use the weak anthropic principle to conclude that P[universe is natural | universe is life-friendly and life exists] >= P[universe is natural | life exists]. So this means, adding the extra information that the universe and its laws are life-friendly, can only strengthen the probability of a naturalistic universe [or at worst leave it unchanged], not actually decrease this probability. This is a rather remarkable conclusion: it is going directly against the train of thought that fine-tuning = need for supernatural explanation.

In short, there is no reason at all to think that a finely-tuned universe, whatever that even means, must make the existence of a creator more probable.

Something else to consider: whenever trolls like the OP are trying to buttress their arguments with dictionary definitions like what Merriam Webster thinks so-and-so words mean.....you pretty much know this entire thing is a joke, and the arguments are not to be taken seriously. I notice the OP uses this tactic. It comes up in unrelated abortion debates a lot as well: when things like dictionary and medical textbook definitions of "life" are given, even though this is contributing nothing at all to the argument at hand, and in fact is demonstrating a misunderstanding of what the argument is even about.

I also await the OP's response to being called out for nonsense spewed about the Dover court trial about intelligent design, and the prior post regarding the difference between spontaneous generation and the scientific hypothesis of abiogenesis: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1592114651

[ElrondHubbard]

I also await the OP's response to being called out for nonsense spewed about the Dover court trial about intelligent design, and the prior post regarding the difference between spontaneous generation and the scientific hypothesis of abiogenesis: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1592114651

Ah, yes... The "breathtaking inanity!"

Apparently it still continues to this day.

[sy2502]

Most atheists are interested in unproven scientific theories such as evolution and big bang--neither of which have ever been replicated in any scientific laboratory, and both of which defy logic

Could you please let us know when creation is replicated in a scientific lab?

[sandaltan]

precision in nature = evidence of no god

just lol

[AltarOfPlagues]

fine tuning argument is like sayin we are lucky we weren't born on mars. it includes impossible counterfactuals in figuring nebulous probability.

imagine sayin we had a 1 in 8 chance bein on planet earth instead of another planet.

u cant talk about epsilon bein fine tuned in a universe where in something like 1/15millionth of it is observable.

[Mumra]

fine tuning argument is like sayin we are lucky we weren't born on mars. it includes impossible counterfactuals in figuring nebulous probability.

imagine sayin we had a 1 in 8 chance bein on planet earth instead of another planet.

u cant talk about epsilon bein fine tuned in a universe where in something like 1/15millionth of it is observable.

yet people still claim to know how it was all made from nothing going boom.

[AltarOfPlagues]

yet people still claim to know how it was all made from nothing going boom.

people observe the structure of universe and the movement of that structure and perform obvious calculations. thats all thats happened. it's not a question of theory. it's like seeing a baseball fly through the air and saying someone hit it or threw it or some such. there are few (any?) cosmologists who speak in terms of big bang causality. sean carroll is the only one i know of.

i feel confident that you can believe everything in modern cosmology and still believe in god.

edit- im a militant agnostic and the more i learn about the rapid early expansion of the universe the more i am mind blown about the nature of the universe. im sure anyone with a propensity toward theology would see increasingly more "god" the deeper they look.

[Alter2Ego]

You have presented no such sound arguments at all, in fact, you’ve only demonstrated that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I agree that my cancer was rare. There is no lifestyle, family history, environmental, genetic, immunological, or infectious correlation to it. It’s completely random. That in itself goes against the “fine tuning” argument. A modern manufactured item, particularly one considered mission critical with modern quality control measures, does not fail randomly. But you made a bigger mistake in ignoring all the other ways an appendix can fail. Cancer is only one of them.

About 7% of the U.S. population contracts acute appendicitis at some point during their lives, usually during the younger half of it. About 40% of those require an appendectomy, or about 3% of the total population. That’s millions of people, a huge number. Again, items that we manufacture, that are legitimately intelligently designed, which are fine tuned for a specific function, do not suffer those failure rates. Cheap, consumable, disposable items do. That’s hardly an argument in favor of your designer, that it designed an organ that is expected to cause a painful, miserable death in a significant portion of the population which retains it. Are humans then cheap, disposable items from the standpoint of this designer? So it would seem, from your logic. Combine that with all the other bodily imperfections that could kill us without modern interventions, and your God looks far more malevolent than beneficent.

Further, you can’t even support your own provided definition for “fine tuned” in this case. All you have been able to say, at best, is that there seems to be some function for the appendix. That is a FAR cry from supporting the claim that the appendix is adjusted precisely ”so as to bring to the highest level of performance or effectiveness.” You don’t know, you have no idea, what the “highest level of performance or effectiveness” would even look like, so you can’t possibly claim that the appendix fulfills the requirements. All you can claim, again – AT BEST – is that it works “well enough”.

That’s the case with most of our biological components. They work well enough, until they don’t. Then they fail. Then we die. Usually with pain and suffering. Fine tuning? Precise? Not usually. Well enough is what we get.

With this precise, fine tuned appendix, people who have had it removed live just fine without it. In my case, the cancer from the appendix had also infiltrated my spleen, and that was removed as well. We have a much better defined knowledge of the spleens function in the human biological system, and guess what? We can live just fine without that too! I just need a few extra vaccinations to make up for what the spleen used to provide for my immune system, and I’m good to go.

And this is where the “fine tuning” argument totally falls apart. A system that is truly and precisely fine tuned, made of many interdependent components, is a fragile system. If one of those fine tuned parts breaks, the entire product fails. Biological systems are just the opposite. They are robust and adaptable, precisely because they are NOT fine tuned. They are usually redundant, inefficient, with many repetitive functions. That makes us much more survivable than we would be if we were fine tuned.

Yet even with all that robust survivability, if you anti-science religious fanatics had your way, we would be right back to those 70% infant mortality rates and sub-30 year life expectancies.

We don’t need your miraculous malevolence.

ElrondHubbard:

Of course I presented evidence of fine-tuning in my OP. Whose problem is it that you choose not to use your reading-comprehension skills to get the point of my OP and that you chose instead to present atheist rhetoric, by complaining about low percentages of things that go wrong with the human body? Below is the definition of fine-tune.

Definition of fine-tune
transitive verb

1a: to adjust precisely so as to bring to the highest level of performance or effectiveness
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fine-tune

Like the average Atheist Religionist, you conveniently ignore the fact that if 7% or 3% of people get certain diseases, that means 93% and 97%, respectively, do not. This indicates the human body is, for the most part, able to fight off the very diseases you are complaining about. That fact, in and of itself, demonstrates fine-tuning and points to Intelligent Design.

The design of the human body clearly demonstrates fine-tuning in that the human body performs to a high level for what it was designed to do. Is it my problem that you choose to ignore that? Of course not.

Next you will be arguing that because an automobile breaks down at some point, then the automobile could not be a fine-tuned vehicle, despite the fact the automobile performs what it was created to do--it takes people back and forth to various locations and does it safely for the most part.

You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that sin and imperfection (which began with Adam and Eve) has resulted in sickness and death. But even that does not change the fact that the universe around us and the human body demonstrate fine-tuning.

Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

[Mr Beer]

yet people still claim to know how it was all made from nothing going boom.

We know it was a singularity that rapidly expanded, not exactly the same thing as either 'nothing' or 'knowing how it was all made'.

If scientists were lazy simpletons though, they could just give up on cosmological research, claim a magical space wizard did it and knock off early to go rape a choirboy.

[NVious]

How can God be intelligent if he made OP use the literally worst font available for communicating God's message?

Checkmate theists

[Mumra]

We know it was a singularity that rapidly expanded, not exactly the same thing as either 'nothing' or 'knowing how it was all made'.

If scientists were lazy simpletons though, they could just give up on cosmological research, claim a magical space wizard did it and knock off early to go rape a choirboy.

"know"?

lol

[sy2502]

Like the average Atheist Religionist, you conveniently ignore the fact that if 7% or 3% of people get certain diseases, that means 93% and 97%, respectively, do not.

Well, here's some chitty tuning that affects 100% of the population:

- the human eye unlike that of, say, the octopus, is inside out. That means the optic nerve is on the front of the retina instead of the back. Which means it has to go through the retina to go into the brain. Which means we have a blind spot where there needs to be none.
- the human nervous system is decussated (crossed) for no good reason. Nerves of the left side of the body go to the right brain hemisphere and vice versa.
- the larynx is only a few inches from the brain, but the laryngeal nerve goes from the brain all the way down to the chest cavity, under the aorta and then right back up to the larynx.
- the trachea and the eso****us open in the same area, making choking on your food very easy.
- the nose drains mucus downward using gravity, but sinuses drain upward, needing cilia to move it against gravity, making us prone to sinus infections.

If that's the best fine tuning your creator could do, he needs some schooling.

[Alter2Ego]

Eight months since my last post in this thread, and still nothing resembling an effective rebuttal to my opening post.

Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

[Ausaric]

Basically we exist in a perfect puddle of water, while questioning how our puddle works so well.

Face it, you’re a finite being, and this is a finite universe. Eventually we will all die, and there is no afterlife. Your experience right now, at this very moment, is all you have.

Yes, it’s horrifying. But get used to it. You’re no different from a fly from a cosmic perspective. You can be stomped out instantly and nothing notices.

[OttomanEmpire]

Basically we exist in a perfect puddle of water, while questioning how our puddle works so well.

Face it, you’re a finite being, and this is a finite universe. Eventually we will all die, and there is no afterlife. Your experience right now, at this very moment, is all you have.

Yes, it’s horrifying. But get used to it. You’re no different from a fly from a cosmic perspective. You can be stomped out instantly and nothing notices.

Yea that's how I see it as well when I see footage of areas in the 1800s and now. They're not chilling in the afterlife lol. Those same people experiencing the USA today wouldn't have experienced it if those natives still had all of it to themselves or vice versa the natives that weren't born today to experience it. Thing's like all chances, things come and go and one day the sun will swallow everything around it.

Someone is born in an impoverished region, brb lose 10 iq points vs the ones born in a well off region who's brain worries about learning new things vs the one that's just trying to survive. Look at an iq map of the world and what a difference 10 points makes. You're born with a brain with defects somewhere, brb experience this world in a different light then the average person. Where's God?

[numberguy12]

Eight months since my last post in this thread, and still nothing resembling an effective rebuttal to my opening post.

OP continues to prove to be some mindless troll who pops in to bump some nonsensical thread every now and then, while ignoring response to his/her nonarguments. Apparently it’s a trend on other forums as well, as posters ITT have discovered.

For example post #309 and #310 were not met with any response, nor was there a response to the utter nonsense from OP regarding the Dover trial linked in post 310.

Once more to illustrate that simply uttering some statement does not make it true:

-5 is an even integer.

[numberguy12]

Also 12/8/2019 was not 8 months ago...this is basic counting.

[Alter2Ego]

Basically we exist in a perfect puddle of water, while questioning how our puddle works so well.

Face it, you’re a finite being, and this is a finite universe. Eventually we will all die, and there is no afterlife. Your experience right now, at this very moment, is all you have.

Yes, it’s horrifying. But get used to it. You’re no different from a fly from a cosmic perspective. You can be stomped out instantly and nothing notices.

Ausaric:

What has any of that to do with the fact that our universe is fine-tuned for life and the fact that fine-tuning is evidence of an Intelligent Designer aka JEHOVAH?


Alter2Ego

________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

[mikebadg3]

Agreed