Australia vs. the USA - Fitness Industry & Personal Training

[askthetrainer]

I have never been to Australia and I'm very curious what the fitness industry is like and personal training as well... Things I know is that the weather is nice and more trainers do outdoor stuff in Australia than in the US....

Things we would like to know for those who have experience in both countries...

1. Are there more overweight people (per capita) in the US or Australia?

2. How much Money is in the Fitness Industry in Australia compared to the US

3. Is there room for growth in Australia or is the market close to being saturated...

4. What are the biggest differences in the Fitness Industry &/or personal training in both countries.

Anyone from Europe or any other Engrish speaking countries feel free to chime in as well...

[askthetrainer]

BUMP MATES!

[tovlakas]

BUMP MATES!

vs.



The only difference that matters. Sorry, we win. :P

In all seriousness, according to http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity, the US is the highest in obesity by a significant margin, while Australia is #6. Surprisingly, Mexico takes #2... wouldn't have thought that.

[KyleAaron]

I would say that the biggest difference between the industries is that here we've a national standard for the education required.

The industry is unregulated, so anyone can call themselves a "personal trainer" or "strength and conditioning coach." However, in practice nobody will employ unqualified people, they have to be self-employed.

The qualifications are,

Certificate III (gym instructor) - qualifies you to write and show basic programmes for low risk clients in a gym environment with a supervisor. End up as the gym floor people. 240 hours class time plus 20 hours gym placement; as low as 72/20 if course is combined with Cert IV. There are also exist Cert III (aqua) and Cert III (group instructor).

Certificate IV (personal trainer) - qualifies you to work independently training low or moderate risk clients, adds what I call "nutritional first aid". Work on gym floor, or independently. 240 hours class time plus 20 hours gym placement, or 72/20 if course is combined with Cert III.

Diploma of Fitness - more in-depth on exercise physiology, fitness training for sports, and adds Cert IV (massage) and Cert IV (nutrition). Over a university year some 500 hours of class time and 100 of placement (varies a lot). Originally conceived to be assistants to physiotherapists, etc, in practice graduates find they can only get PT jobs, the Dip Fit is likely to be phased out once they figure out what they'll replace it with.

Bachelor of Science (Exercise Physiology or similar) - tend to end up working with high risk clients or special populations like Parkinson's or cerebral palsy patients.

There are a whole swag of other possible degrees and diplomas in "sports management" and the like, but the above are those who actually end up training people. In addition, there are many minor courses which will add "kettlebell training" or "working with elderly" and so on.

Occupational healthy and safety laws require that every place where people pay to exercise has someone with Level 2 First Aid. This is a weekend course with a lengthy workbook to fill out, so the person knows what to do with a redback spider bite as opposed to a funnelweb spider bite, though these you wouldn't expect much of in the gym compared to muscle tears and impact injuries. So the first aid is not required to graduate any of the courses above, but in practice workplaces don't like to write work rosters puzzling out who has the first aid and who doesn't, so they just demand that everyone have first aid.

Registration. Again, nobody needs qualifications to call themselves a trainer. There exist state and federal industry bodies, the federal one is fitness Australia. To be registered you must be qualified, and many jobs require that you be registered. Registration requires paying a fee and agreeing to the Code of Ethics; clients may report members for violations of the code, and they may be deregistered. Continuing registration after the first two years requires that the member acquire Continuing Education Credits (CECs); basically, go to weekend workshops and conferences, do little courses, etc.

Literally thousands of people pass through these courses every year. The federal standards simply require that subjects X, Y and Z be covered in the course, they do not set standards of in how much detail they should be covered, nor of how they should be assessed, and so on. And each course provider can put in extra stuff if they want to. So we get a lot of variation in quality of course.

For example, the Australian Institute of Fitness has an 8 week course which they call "Master Trainer". This title is not recognised by anyone, it's simply Cert III and IV with some extra marketing stuff thrown in. AIF is known for a "fun" course, for example when giving anatomy lessons the instructors get the buff guys to take their shirts off. "This is the pectoralis major," etc; nobody fails.

By contrast, RMIT offers a 6 week course of Cert III/IV combined which is considerably more content-intensive. I did this for Cert IV (I did Cert III elsewhere, so got a double dose of some of the information) and we had to learn (for example) the origins, insertions and actions of some 50 different muscles. The head teacher is an osteopath, so he added postural assessment in quite some detail. We had exams, and were not allowed to proceed to practical placement unless we got at least 70% in the exams, and eventually had to get 100% (at the end we got to resit the questions we'd missed earlier).

Colleges of technical education, known as TAFEs in Australia, offer Cert III and IV as part-time courses over a semester. This adds up to the same 200 or so contact hours you get elsewhere. The standard tends not to be very high, but at least with the gaps between classes you get a chance to digest the information; interested students will be able to learn a lot. I did Cert III at a TAFE.

Students in fitness courses, in my experience - confirmed by talking to instructors, fall into three basic groups.

• injured - someone who had a knee reconstruction, came back from a broken spine, etc - during rehab they got an interest in physical training, and just want to improve their own knowledge - no PT career wanted
• martial artists - similar to the injured, their hobby makes them interested in physical training, also some martial arts organisations seem to require Cert III/IV if you want to be a high-level instructor - no PT career wanted
• drifters - long-term unemployed people, or young people around 17-25, not really sure what they want to do with their lives, "I'm just giving this a go," etc. - who knows what these guys want. Most of these do not pass the course, and if they pass, don't go on into the industry.
• passionate - the ones genuinely interested in the industry - want a PT career. Many of these are people who formerly hired a PT and got big changes in themselves

So perhaps only 1/4 of any class have any prospect of actually becoming a PT.

In my Cert III class, 27 of 30 passed, but only 6 went on Cert IV, and only 2 (including me) now have any involvement in the fitness industry. In my Cert IV class, 7 of 14 passed, and of them - 2 (including me) are employed or self-employed as PTs, 1 as a Les Mills Body Combat instructor (this one actually failed Cert IV, did Cert III at AIF), and 2 are bodybuilding competitors.

The classes had me and 2 others as overlapping members, and so we find that of 41 people going through the courses, 31 passed one or both courses, 3 are involved in the industry, and 2 are bodybuilding at amateur level.

Other courses have higher numbers of people going through to work in the industry. However, typically the journey is from AIF to Fitness First, and the typical PT at Fitness First loses money - they pay rent, and their fees from clients don't cover the rent (this is why FF charges PTs rent rather than paying them a salary - most fail). So they disappear from the industry after a year or so.

Thus, while heaps of people are going through these courses, many don't pass, and those who do pass usually don't go on to work in the industry, and those who do, tend not to stay.

Opportunities
As in most industries, most of the money isn't in the productive work, but in supervising, teaching and so on. Few PTs will get a six-figure income, but they might if they provide courses for CECs, or end up managing a gym, or hiring other trainers to work with them at FF, or writing books, etc.

Most work offered to PTs is part-time and/or casual - simply because most clients will want appointments just before and after business hours, so it's not really possible to offer straight 8 hour shifts.

Most work offered to PTs is either self-employment (as at FF) or gives bonuses for having more clients (as at community and university gyms, and PT companies running boot camps for professionals, etc). So financial and career success depends very much on the PT's ability to market themselves, get along with people, and so on.

I think that's enough for now.

[warrior136]

1. Yeah there are quite a lot of fatties.

2. US has more money in the industry as you have a population of 307 million people. We have 21.5 million people.

3. There is plenty of room for growth if you have knowledge and people skills and can actually help people. In regards to saturation, the market is saturated with inexperienced, under qualified and dangerous morons who don't know the first thing about the human body (Like KyleAaron said, there are a lot of "fun" courses where NO ONE fails because they've paid for $7 - $10k for their certificate). Frankly put, I'm of the honest belief there are 6 decent "personal trainers" (excluding strength coaches) in Australia. One works at St Leonards Fitness First, the other 4 I know are private trainers with their own studios, and from reading his postings here on BB.com, Kyle Aaron.

4. As for the biggest differences, can't really answer that one as I haven't worked in the good old US&A.

[KyleAaron]

There are lots of good trainers and coaches out there. It's just that they're outnumbered by the people who are in the industry for a year or two then bail and do something else. And those people may have the knowledge, but because they're not really that interested in the job, they don't apply their knowledge. This is not so different to any other industry, really.

There are a few reasons people come into the fitness industry and are disappointed. "I like to work out!", "I want to work with hotties and athletes", and "everyone will have a great attitude!"

Many people get into the fitness industry because they like to work out. Which is like joining the Army because you look nice in green. These people are naturally disappointed at having to actually work with other people.

Many people join because they imagine they'll spend all their time working with hot chicks in lycra, or hot guys with sixpacks, or top athletes. This of course is very far from the truth for most trainers. My first client was a 46 year old guy who looked 66, was overweight, duck feet highly pronated, with high blood pressure and gout, and who couldn't do a single full pushup.

They also imagine that all their clients will be very motivated. My first client never came to two sessions in a row, was always rescheduling and being late, and never did exercises or increased number of steps done day-to-day as he needed to. Now, as the trainer this is partly my fault - it's our job to help motivate people, every client who quits is in a sense a failure of ours. But mostly it's the client - many people are not well-motivated, if they were then many less of them would need a trainer's help.

These issues of "I like to work out!", "I want to work with hotties and athletes", and "everyone will have a great attitude!" are things which contribute to a lot of disappointed new trainers who quit after a year or two. But I don't think that's particularly Australian, surely it happens everywhere.

But those are the trainers who appear clueless. Many don't have the knowledge because their poor attitude existed in class, too, so they didn't learn much. But many do have the knowledge and don't apply it. It's easy to care about a client's excessive lordosis when they have a nice arse for you to look at, it's harder when they don't. So these are the people warrior136 and others see and get depressed about.

Just remember, the ordinary trainers don't stay in the industry. The ones who are genuinely competent are usually more interested in the job, and stick with it. Am I one of the competent ones? Well, if I say I am that's like saying, "I am trustworthy and honest," as soon as I say it you'll be suspicious. What I will say is that I'm interested. And if a person's interested, they'll get the knowledge eventually.

Attitude or knowledge, which is more important? Once I was working in a cafe and we had to hire a new cook. We had two applicants right away and tried them out in the kitchen, one had experience and skills but the first thing she did was ask when her first holiday could be, and was late the first day. The other one was inexperienced and unskilled but really wanted to get into cookery and showed up on time and did extra jobs we hadn't asked him to do.

The head chef asked me who I thought we should hire, I said "one has knowledge and poor attitude, the other is ignorant but has a good attitude. Take the one with good attitude, an ignorant person can learn but a lazy person will always be lazy, and won't use the knowledge they have."

He hired the skilled lazy one, she announced she was taking holidays whether we liked it or not, so he had to bring in the other one to help out. Two months later we never saw the skilled lazy one, and the unskilled hardworking one was... now skilled, and getting better every day.

It's the same in the fitness industry, I'm sure. So this is the key thing, attitude - and the majority of trainers who are pretty ordinary simply have a poor attitude. It's not really the school they went to, even. In some respects that doesn't matter. School is only the beginning of your education, if you're genuinely interested in the subject you'll get the information one way or another, if you're not that interested you'll soon forget whatever was forced into your head.

Most trainers don't have a good attitude. They're not that interested in helping people, they don't respect and support people, and they're not interested in how the human body works and responds to things. So they don't stay in the job long.

But there are a LOT who are good at their job and have a great attitude.

[Wanderlei]

I think only 1/4 of the **** you have wrote actually has subtance. You have wasted valuable energy working your fingers.

More dropouts and unemployed people exist from TAFE than any institute in Australia, probably including highschools. TAFE is where you go if you didn't make it into university because your TER (GDP equiv) didn't make the cut and you didnt get into the course you wanted to do (because you didnt put in the effort at school).

I have worked as an IT administrator, web developer, gyprocker, gelati manufacturer, as a graveyard shift order packer in a warehouse at pooraka, high level ameture soccer player, battled chronic anxiety and depression, and a martial artist all at the same time, I've busted my ass more than you can imagine, sleeping 2 hours a night if I am lucky for durations of more than 2-3 months at times. It wasnt what I wanted to do, but I did it anyway, for money. Now fitness, the AIF, has given me my "live to work" as opposed to my "work to live" oppurtunity. An oppurtunity not given to my grandparents who busted their asses for my parents when they came to this country. I respect that.

I did the AIF course, and it was extremely beneficial to me due to TIME. And I sat by myself in class, went in there on off hours and trained and spoke to the coaches, etc. took in from it all that I could, even if i knew some information was different and wrong in some cases.

Now, I have sold my car, bought 8000 dollars worth of equipment (so far) and set up my own studio, i am a martial artist who is starting a professional sporting career in september and I train full time. I bust my ass in everything I do and I am a good trainer. I only have low-risk clients at the moment and that is only because a member of my family has chrones and I train her atm.

I could do the quick and dirty, post up pictures of when i was 19/20 112kg very overweight, to pictures of me start of the year, 82kg and maybe 10-12% bf and make money off that, sell diet plans etc, but I wouldn't feel right myself, and when I train I need to be at peace in the back of my mind at all times to achieve goals. So doing things RIGHT is paramount.

If your only interested in making money as a personal trainer, then you give the genuine ones a bad name. Am I the only personal trainer that has a higher regard for pleasing the body, mind and soul of a client rather than what is written in my accounting books? Maybe its just the respect I have developed for most living things through martial arts teachings and experiences in life, but damn it I didn't think most PT's would be stuck up *******s.

This is not the right forum for personal trainers. Only should be in here if you want to know how to make money, not how to train clients or find out the values that you require to be a good trainer and have people respect you.

I don't respect you because you make money, I respect you because you are a good trainer, this is how it should be.

EDIT: maybe I was harsh, try 1/2.

[KyleAaron]

I'm not sure exactly what Wanderlei is disagreeing with, he just posted a rant on how he worked hard and got results. I agree that hard work gets results.

More dropouts and unemployed people exist from TAFE than any institute in Australia,

Possibly true. I did say, "the standard tends not to be very high."

I did the AIF course, and it was extremely beneficial to me due to TIME. And I sat by myself in class, went in there on off hours and trained and spoke to the coaches, etc. took in from it all that I could, even if i knew some information was different and wrong in some cases.

Which is why I said, school is only the beginning of your education, if you're genuinely interested in the subject you'll get the information one way or another, if you're not that interested you'll soon forget whatever was forced into your head.

To a great extent, which school you went to doesn't matter. It's the attitude that counts. In schooling at all levels I have found that coaches and teachers respond very supportively to those with a genuine interest. For example, I and another student paired up and took turns training one another at lunchtimes with the aim of improving our bodies and our coaching, when the teachers found out they started wandering by and commenting, taking time out of their lunchtime to help us improve.

Only should be in here if you want to know how to make money, not how to train clients or find out the values that you require to be a good trainer and have people respect you.

I don't think that's true. We do have a fair number of posts sharing all sorts of non-money-oriented ideas. Here's one on ethics, here's another on improving lunges. You may or may not find the advice good, but it's not oriented towards making money. There are lots of threads about getting clients, but that's not necessarily about making money - you can't be a good trainer without clients.

[jules_d1]

massive post about how trainers here are more focused on money.

You realise you are allowed to make money while improving peoples lives right?

In fact, by making money you can help MORE people as you have more resources and can expand your services.

I love the fact i can make very good money by helping people but I cant help them if I am not good at sales.

[sf69]

Good post
I was thinking of doing the Dip of Fitness, (as an add on to Cert IV + extra CEC's points). You sure they going to phase it out?.

[KyleAaron]

I was thinking of doing the Dip of Fitness, (as an add on to Cert IV + extra CEC's points). You sure they going to phase it out?.

This was according to Ian Martin, who is the guy organising things at RMIT (link above) - but it matches what I've heard elsewhere. As best I remember - and I don't claim my memory is flawless - he told me he'd once worked in the education department setting up the standards for the course. So I assume he still has contacts who know these things.

The original idea of the Dip Fit was that the graduates would do work like assisting physiotherapists in rehabilitation, or working with top athletes. But apparently those jobs go to the people with the BSc (ex phys) and the like. Credential inflation. And then the Dip Fits who decide to be PTs don't get any extra responsibility or money for their qualification.

So if you're doing it in the hopes of extra responsibility or money, it's probably not going to be worth it. If you're doing it for your own education, and to be the best trainer you can be, then it'll be worth it. As I see it, the nutrition and massage qualifications would be a great help to a self-employed trainer. Since nutrition is so important in achieving goals, to be able to offer that to clients has got to be good; and as for the massage, well if they are too sore after one session and are going to miss the next, tell them to come in for a massage instead

As I understand it, the question is what to replace the DipFit with. My feeling is that they won't ditch any course until they have something to slot it into place. And what's that going to be? It takes years for these things to come up, a dozen years ago there was only Cert III, no Cert IV or Dip Fit.

Certainly extra education never does any harm (except maybe to your wallet). I'd like to pursue a Dip Fit in future, my family circumstances may allow or stop this, we'll have to see.

As I said, this is my best recollection and understanding of the industry. I don't have enough experience to be certain of these things.

I mean, there are a zillion courses out there and career paths beyond being a PT or group instructor. The new Health Club Co-ordinator at my local community gym, who is about 30yo, describes himself in this way,

"I have been employed with the Monash Council for over two years now, working at The Clayton Aquatic and Health Club as well as Monash Aquatic and Recreation Centre.
I began my employment working at MARC as a CSO [customer services officer] with the career goal to make my way into the Health and Fitness.

"Prior to my employment to Marc, I had completed and obtained my Certi cate III in Fitness at Fitnation. After working for over a year as a CSO, I decided to go back and study so I
could progress my career, and in that year I completed my Diploma of Sports Development at Box Hill Tafe.

"At the end of 2009 I began working in the fitness department at MARC. I assisted in running Bootmarc, 6 Week Challenge and Summerblitz. My career has continued to grow since originally starting with the council, to the position I hold now, as the Health and Fitness Coordinator at CAHC.

"I have also had a great passion for tness and being active. Some people call me hypo; I just like to think it’s a passion for tness. I play football for a local club in winter, I love skiing, gymnastics, golf and really anything that allows me to can run around and have fun."

Cert III at Box Hill TAFE is not very high-level, nor well-regarded. Nor is working the desk at the gym a terribly brilliant start. But the guy obviously worked hard and loved the industry, so he went off and did his Dip Sports Dev, kept working hard and now has a position of responsibility where he can decide how things are done at the gym, and help improve the lives of many people.

So I think the thing to do is just to pursue the education you'll enjoy, work hard with a genuine love for the industry, and opportunities will appear - even if you're the last person to graduate your course

[Wanderlei]

Yes I went on, and I'm sorry about that.

On this section:
Answering questions about morals and ethics, fine.
Answering questions about technique, client issues, fine.

But don't you get sick about answering repetitive questions and threads about making money in this section. I've also seen threads turn from tips or say ethics to about how to make money.

I'm inexperienced and largely untested as a trainer, I have a few natural traits that help me out. Probably have more knowledge on running and sustaining my own business than training.

When I was at AIF, I enjoyed it alot more when the coaches opened up their mouths to speak about the body, about fitness and overall wellbeing. When certain ones started talking about how they make money in the industry and their tips and tactics, it just occurred to me how cut throat and ruthless some people in the industry are - borderline evil.

Maybe they divulged the info to me because they saw I shut my mouth in class or whatever but it certainly changed my views on them as people and they quickly lost my respect.

Anyway: Aus vs USA?

1. USA
2. USA - more potential clients, more potential in that shallow sense.
3. Depends where you setup, Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne are alot better than say Adelaide, Darwin or Perth.
4. The USA has better technology, knowledge and training methods. The proffessionals in the industry are very passionate and methodical in everything they do. There is much more oppurtunity to study specific training and methods in America than Australia and this helps them progress.

on Europe: Someone from Australia or USA can be EXTREMELY succesful in europe if they know the language. I speak Italian and after my stint (hopefully very long) in professional fighting I will be looking to move overseas and work for sure.

[sf69]

This was according to Ian Martin, who is the guy organising things at RMIT (link above) - but it matches what I've heard elsewhere. As best I remember - and I don't claim my memory is flawless - he told me he'd once worked in the education department setting up the standards for the course. So I assume he still has contacts who know these things.

The original idea of the Dip Fit was that the graduates would do work like assisting physiotherapists in rehabilitation, or working with top athletes. But apparently those jobs go to the people with the BSc (ex phys) and the like. Credential inflation. And then the Dip Fits who decide to be PTs don't get any extra responsibility or money for their qualification.

So if you're doing it in the hopes of extra responsibility or money, it's probably not going to be worth it. If you're doing it for your own education, and to be the best trainer you can be, then it'll be worth it. As I see it, the nutrition and massage qualifications would be a great help to a self-employed trainer. Since nutrition is so important in achieving goals, to be able to offer that to clients has got to be good; and as for the massage, well if they are too sore after one session and are going to miss the next, tell them to come in for a massage instead

As I understand it, the question is what to replace the DipFit with. My feeling is that they won't ditch any course until they have something to slot it into place. And what's that going to be? It takes years for these things to come up, a dozen years ago there was only Cert III, no Cert IV or Dip Fit.

Certainly extra education never does any harm (except maybe to your wallet). I'd like to pursue a Dip Fit in future, my family circumstances may allow or stop this, we'll have to see.

As I said, this is my best recollection and understanding of the industry. I don't have enough experience to be certain of these things.

I mean, there are a zillion courses out there and career paths beyond being a PT or group instructor. The new Health Club Co-ordinator at my local community gym, who is about 30yo, describes himself in this way,

"I have been employed with the Monash Council for over two years now, working at The Clayton Aquatic and Health Club as well as Monash Aquatic and Recreation Centre.
I began my employment working at MARC as a CSO [customer services officer] with the career goal to make my way into the Health and Fitness.

"Prior to my employment to Marc, I had completed and obtained my Certi cate III in Fitness at Fitnation. After working for over a year as a CSO, I decided to go back and study so I
could progress my career, and in that year I completed my Diploma of Sports Development at Box Hill Tafe.

"At the end of 2009 I began working in the fitness department at MARC. I assisted in running Bootmarc, 6 Week Challenge and Summerblitz. My career has continued to grow since originally starting with the council, to the position I hold now, as the Health and Fitness Coordinator at CAHC.

"I have also had a great passion for tness and being active. Some people call me hypo; I just like to think it’s a passion for tness. I play football for a local club in winter, I love skiing, gymnastics, golf and really anything that allows me to can run around and have fun."

Cert III at Box Hill TAFE is not very high-level, nor well-regarded. Nor is working the desk at the gym a terribly brilliant start. But the guy obviously worked hard and loved the industry, so he went off and did his Dip Sports Dev, kept working hard and now has a position of responsibility where he can decide how things are done at the gym, and help improve the lives of many people.

So I think the thing to do is just to pursue the education you'll enjoy, work hard with a genuine love for the industry, and opportunities will appear - even if you're the last person to graduate your course

Oh ok, i thought you had verification of this. Have you seen the latest Fitness Australia registration levels (March 2010). I don't think they will it phase it out anytime soon.
Too much money to be made in PT education.

[jules_d1]

Yes I went on, and I'm sorry about that.

On this section:
Answering questions about morals and ethics, fine.
Answering questions about technique, client issues, fine.

But don't you get sick about answering repetitive questions and threads about making money in this section. I've also seen threads turn from tips or say ethics to about how to make money.

I'm inexperienced and largely untested as a trainer, I have a few natural traits that help me out. Probably have more knowledge on running and sustaining my own business than training.

When I was at AIF, I enjoyed it alot more when the coaches opened up their mouths to speak about the body, about fitness and overall wellbeing. When certain ones started talking about how they make money in the industry and their tips and tactics, it just occurred to me how cut throat and ruthless some people in the industry are - borderline evil.

Maybe they divulged the info to me because they saw I shut my mouth in class or whatever but it certainly changed my views on them as people and they quickly lost my respect.

Anyway: Aus vs USA?

1. USA
2. USA - more potential clients, more potential in that shallow sense.
3. Depends where you setup, Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne are alot better than say Adelaide, Darwin or Perth.
4. The USA has better technology, knowledge and training methods. The proffessionals in the industry are very passionate and methodical in everything they do. There is much more oppurtunity to study specific training and methods in America than Australia and this helps them progress.

on Europe: Someone from Australia or USA can be EXTREMELY succesful in europe if they know the language. I speak Italian and after my stint (hopefully very long) in professional fighting I will be looking to move overseas and work for sure.

what exactly do you have against making money?

[KyleAaron]

Oh ok, i thought you had verification of this.

Nothing's official until it's ready to happen. This is just the "hmmm, what do we do now?" stage of things.

Have you seen the latest Fitness Australia registration levels (March 2010).

No, I haven't seen them.

I don't think they will it phase it out anytime soon. Too much money to be made in PT education.

As I said, I don't expect them to get rid of anything without replacing it. And that's explicitly what Marto said, "they just don't know what they'd replace it with." The demand for the education would be the same if they had a new course to replace it with.

Education's worthwhile in itself, whatever career difference it does or doesn't make. And as I said, I think it'd help a self-employed PT a lot. Jules here has a nutrition certification, and it's a significant part of his business. It's just not likely to help you get a fancier job if working for someone else - but you never know, look at the history of that guy I mentioned.

But don't you get sick about answering repetitive questions and threads about making money in this section.

No, because I don't answer them. Asking me how to make money is like asking a Biggest Loser trainer about safe and effective training regimes.

When certain ones started talking about how they make money in the industry and their tips and tactics, it just occurred to me how cut throat and ruthless some people in the industry are - borderline evil.

No different to any other industry. We didn't get these various financial crises in the past few years because everyone was honest and hardworking.

Money's not evil, mate. In the end, this is a business. Yes, we're here to help people - but if we don't make money, we have to change careers and then can't help anyone. And why shouldn't I get money for what I do? Someone earned money from helping the person become unfit, unhealthy and over/underweight, why shouldn't I earn money from helping them turn it around?

Doesn't mean money has to be our first priority, but it has to be up there, has to be considered.

[Wanderlei]

I never said I was against making money I said I was against talking about money in accordance to helping people.

Too many users that read this section of the forum just want to make money not actually care about help people, or training techniques.

If you can talk all day about making money and things to maximise profit as a personal trainer but can't do the same to talk about the actual training, i think you are just exploiting the industry and not a true trainer. I never said I was against making money, just talking about it here.

ie. questions about "how to start a group class" "how to conduct a personal training session" should not include your 10 point plan to maximise profits.

[Kiwi_Fella]

I would say that the biggest difference between the industries is that here we've a national standard for the education required.

The industry is unregulated, so anyone can call themselves a "personal trainer" or "strength and conditioning coach." However, in practice nobody will employ unqualified people, they have to be self-employed.

The qualifications are,

Certificate III (gym instructor) - qualifies you to write and show basic programmes for low risk clients in a gym environment with a supervisor. End up as the gym floor people. 240 hours class time plus 20 hours gym placement; as low as 72/20 if course is combined with Cert IV. There are also exist Cert III (aqua) and Cert III (group instructor).

Certificate IV (personal trainer) - qualifies you to work independently training low or moderate risk clients, adds what I call "nutritional first aid". Work on gym floor, or independently. 240 hours class time plus 20 hours gym placement, or 72/20 if course is combined with Cert III.

Diploma of Fitness - more in-depth on exercise physiology, fitness training for sports, and adds Cert IV (massage) and Cert IV (nutrition). Over a university year some 500 hours of class time and 100 of placement (varies a lot). Originally conceived to be assistants to physiotherapists, etc, in practice graduates find they can only get PT jobs, the Dip Fit is likely to be phased out once they figure out what they'll replace it with.

Bachelor of Science (Exercise Physiology or similar) - tend to end up working with high risk clients or special populations like Parkinson's or cerebral palsy patients.

There are a whole swag of other possible degrees and diplomas in "sports management" and the like, but the above are those who actually end up training people. In addition, there are many minor courses which will add "kettlebell training" or "working with elderly" and so on.

Occupational healthy and safety laws require that every place where people pay to exercise has someone with Level 2 First Aid. This is a weekend course with a lengthy workbook to fill out, so the person knows what to do with a redback spider bite as opposed to a funnelweb spider bite, though these you wouldn't expect much of in the gym compared to muscle tears and impact injuries. So the first aid is not required to graduate any of the courses above, but in practice workplaces don't like to write work rosters puzzling out who has the first aid and who doesn't, so they just demand that everyone have first aid.

Registration. Again, nobody needs qualifications to call themselves a trainer. There exist state and federal industry bodies, the federal one is fitness Australia. To be registered you must be qualified, and many jobs require that you be registered. Registration requires paying a fee and agreeing to the Code of Ethics; clients may report members for violations of the code, and they may be deregistered. Continuing registration after the first two years requires that the member acquire Continuing Education Credits (CECs); basically, go to weekend workshops and conferences, do little courses, etc.

Literally thousands of people pass through these courses every year. The federal standards simply require that subjects X, Y and Z be covered in the course, they do not set standards of in how much detail they should be covered, nor of how they should be assessed, and so on. And each course provider can put in extra stuff if they want to. So we get a lot of variation in quality of course.

For example, the Australian Institute of Fitness has an 8 week course which they call "Master Trainer". This title is not recognised by anyone, it's simply Cert III and IV with some extra marketing stuff thrown in. AIF is known for a "fun" course, for example when giving anatomy lessons the instructors get the buff guys to take their shirts off. "This is the pectoralis major," etc; nobody fails.

By contrast, RMIT offers a 6 week course of Cert III/IV combined which is considerably more content-intensive. I did this for Cert IV (I did Cert III elsewhere, so got a double dose of some of the information) and we had to learn (for example) the origins, insertions and actions of some 50 different muscles. The head teacher is an osteopath, so he added postural assessment in quite some detail. We had exams, and were not allowed to proceed to practical placement unless we got at least 70% in the exams, and eventually had to get 100% (at the end we got to resit the questions we'd missed earlier).

Colleges of technical education, known as TAFEs in Australia, offer Cert III and IV as part-time courses over a semester. This adds up to the same 200 or so contact hours you get elsewhere. The standard tends not to be very high, but at least with the gaps between classes you get a chance to digest the information; interested students will be able to learn a lot. I did Cert III at a TAFE.

Students in fitness courses, in my experience - confirmed by talking to instructors, fall into three basic groups.

• injured - someone who had a knee reconstruction, came back from a broken spine, etc - during rehab they got an interest in physical training, and just want to improve their own knowledge - no PT career wanted
• martial artists - similar to the injured, their hobby makes them interested in physical training, also some martial arts organisations seem to require Cert III/IV if you want to be a high-level instructor - no PT career wanted
• drifters - long-term unemployed people, or young people around 17-25, not really sure what they want to do with their lives, "I'm just giving this a go," etc. - who knows what these guys want. Most of these do not pass the course, and if they pass, don't go on into the industry.
• passionate - the ones genuinely interested in the industry - want a PT career. Many of these are people who formerly hired a PT and got big changes in themselves

So perhaps only 1/4 of any class have any prospect of actually becoming a PT.

In my Cert III class, 27 of 30 passed, but only 6 went on Cert IV, and only 2 (including me) now have any involvement in the fitness industry. In my Cert IV class, 7 of 14 passed, and of them - 2 (including me) are employed or self-employed as PTs, 1 as a Les Mills Body Combat instructor (this one actually failed Cert IV, did Cert III at AIF), and 2 are bodybuilding competitors.

The classes had me and 2 others as overlapping members, and so we find that of 41 people going through the courses, 31 passed one or both courses, 3 are involved in the industry, and 2 are bodybuilding at amateur level.

Other courses have higher numbers of people going through to work in the industry. However, typically the journey is from AIF to Fitness First, and the typical PT at Fitness First loses money - they pay rent, and their fees from clients don't cover the rent (this is why FF charges PTs rent rather than paying them a salary - most fail). So they disappear from the industry after a year or so.

Thus, while heaps of people are going through these courses, many don't pass, and those who do pass usually don't go on to work in the industry, and those who do, tend not to stay.

Opportunities
As in most industries, most of the money isn't in the productive work, but in supervising, teaching and so on. Few PTs will get a six-figure income, but they might if they provide courses for CECs, or end up managing a gym, or hiring other trainers to work with them at FF, or writing books, etc.

Most work offered to PTs is part-time and/or casual - simply because most clients will want appointments just before and after business hours, so it's not really possible to offer straight 8 hour shifts.

Most work offered to PTs is either self-employment (as at FF) or gives bonuses for having more clients (as at community and university gyms, and PT companies running boot camps for professionals, etc). So financial and career success depends very much on the PT's ability to market themselves, get along with people, and so on.

I think that's enough for now.

Hey I know this is a strong bump, but just wanted to say thanks for this post.

Are these certs still relevant in 2013? I'm looking at doing them

[KyleAaron]

Yes all the above is still current and relevant. I would add only that Cert III alone won't get you a job, everyone has Cert III and IV both.