Opinions, muicroloading plate

[BloodType3R]

He uses different approach. There is just one fraction: 1/2 lbs. It makes micro weight increases easier compared to multi-fractional plates. You just keep putting his 1/2 lbs plates on the bar till they reach total of 2 lbs. The next step you use 2.5 plate and start over with the 1/2 plates. To me this way is more user convenient.

I am also gonna get the traditional multi-fractional set for on-the-bar weight calibration.

I dunno.. I still don't see it. It's like suggesting the use of a 5lb and 4 10lb plates rather than just using a 45.
Sherm, you ask if there's a market.. IMO there is but it's a small one and from that small market I just don't see many consumers choosing this over existing options.

[Jetigen]

Based on the shape of Sherm's microloading plates, I found a name for them to easily distinquish from traditional fractional plates: SpongeBobs.

[Jetigen]

I dunno.. I still don't see it. It's like suggesting the use of a 5lb and 4 10lb plates rather than just using a 45.

I get what you are saying. But at such small weight fraction I find it to be the way to go. At least, it doesn't seem to be alogical.

[BloodType3R]

Based on the shape of Sherm's microloading plates, I found a name for them to easily distinquish from traditional fractional plates: SpongeBobs.

They already have a name: muicroloading plates.

[sherman]

When do you think you'll be able to start selling them? I am interested in buying a set of your microplates for doing Rippetoe tricep extensions with a Swiss bar.

P.S. I think lettering could be a little better than 1/2 lbs handwriting as you have it on the plate in the picture. And please, make holes wide enough so that they could fit on specialty bars.

The hole is 2" diameter. I'm not aware of any olympic sleeves that would not fit in that size hole. Let me know if there are.
I have some made that could be shipped in a few days. PM or e-mail for arrangements.

Here's a printed label instead my handwritten marks, any improvement? (I call the plates "halFER's")

[morebarbell]

In response to your question, I doubt there is a very big demand. They are very specialized and there are alternatives at different levels of pricing, accuracy and finish. If you are marketing to your target audience by posting your questions on open forums, then your market will be very tiny compared to other alternatives such as Rogue. Since you posted in an open discussion board, it is fair to evaluate the product critically and compare it to alternatives. The plates from Rogue.com, Ironwoodyfitness.com, and others are more expensive but have a better finish and have more sizes available. I don't know the accuracy since I haven't weighed them.

Your plates are marked 0.5. Can you post actual weights of a sample (maybe 10 or so) of the plates measured with an accurate scale? Are they more accurate than these $2 washers? According to the 2nd link:

The 6 washers I bought have the following weights:

0.60 lbs
0.616 lbs x 2
0.622 lbs x 2
0.642 lbs

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0012021&page=1
http://mannixcastro.com/2011/10/08/c...-microloading/

The weights of the washers happen to be approximately a size that is a multiple of the weights commonly used for weight plates. Wouldn't 0.625 lbs be better than 0.5XX lbs for that reason?

I just consider them all as 0.625 lbs each either way. The weight not being EXACTLY 0.625 lbs each is not a HUGE problem. I don’t think your body will notice the +0.017/-0.025 lbs difference.


Here’s how the poundages work out:

1 washer PER SIDE= 1.25 total pounds
2 washers PER SIDE= 2.5 total pounds
3 washers PER SIDE= 3.75 total pounds
4 washers PER SIDE= 5 pounds

There are 1 1/4 lbs plates that are available as a pack of 10 from Ivanko for $45 so $4.50 per plate. Ivanko is high end so presumably they would be less expensive from Cap or another budget brand. With that in mind, the function of the plates are somewhat redundant after a multiple of two since regular plates could be used.

[daniel327]

http://www.roguefitness.com/iron-woo...nal-plates.php

Am I missng something?
Surely if I'm paying for precision, a few bucks saved will not steer me towards some scrap metal squares over a uniformly sized and nicely finished product.

I don't think you are.

I recently purchased 6 pieces of 2 inch flat washers for $9.

Each washer weighed between 240 and 248 grams.

A minor sanding of the edges with some emery cloth resulted in 6 washers all weighing exactly 240 grams.

After a quick coat of spray enamel, I now have a set of perfectly matched, nicely finished microloading plates for about 12 bucks.

(n.b. - 240 gram = 0.52910942924 pound)

[Jetigen]

The hole is 2" diameter. I'm not aware of any olympic sleeves that would not fit in that size hole. Let me know if there are.

2" is equal to 50.8 mm. In powerlifting, the hole is supposed to be between 52 and 53 mm. 53 mm is equal to 2.087". For specialty bars the hole diameter probably needs to be even bigger.

For example, Ivanko plates won't fit on my (Crepinsek) Safety Squat Bar.

Here are a couple of pictures of how far they fit. If your halfers are 2" in diameter, they might be of no use to me as I expect the Swiss bar I am about to buy to have a slightly bigger sleeve diameter.



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Here's a printed label instead my handwritten marks, any improvement? (I call the plates "halFER's")

I am guessing that the stickered label is gonna peel off eventually. Maybe create a template and spray paint with light color Rust-Oleum? Anyway, I am not too anal about it.

[sherman]

Lots of good comments. I'll try to do an all-in-one reply.

Precision: The plates weigh 0.5 lb plus or minus 3%. I have confirmed this by weighing batches of plates on several scales, including the one at the post office. Two batches were made. One had a 3% accuracy and the other slightly less than 2%. The IronWoody and Rogue web sites do not state the accuracy of their microloading plates, so I can't make a comparison. (If you find out their accuracy please post it.).

Finish - These as weight plates, just like the plates you encounter in a gym - a piece of painted steel or cast iron with a hole in it. There is nothing ugly or crude about the Halfer, but nothing fancy either.

Product Niche - The main feature of the Halfer is that it lets you increase bar load one pound at a time without having to come up with combinations of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 pound plates. In my opinion the microloading sets make weight changes overly complex. So my claim is that the Halfer makes it very easy to to do load increases, one pound at a time. Think of it as the next lighter plate below the 1.25's.

Price - the IronWoody sets cost about $60 with shipping. The Rogue sets cost close to $80 with shipping. A set of eight Halfers cost $35 with shipping.

Washers - As I have explained before, the weight of 2" washers can vary over a 40% range. If you get them from a bin, you can cherry pick for washers that have the same thickness, so they will be of equal weight, then go home and weigh them. I've seen price variations from $2 to about $4 each - not much different from the $4 Halfer. You can think of the Halfer as a precision 2" washer that weighs 0.5 lb on the money every time.

Anyway, I got some good feedback. appreciate it.

[trimble006]

Based on the shape of Sherm's microloading plates, I found a name for them to easily distinquish from traditional fractional plates: SpongeBobs.

and besides the common square shape, that name has what in common with the product...?

[cthulhupun]

Your plates are marked 0.5. Can you post actual weights of a sample (maybe 10 or so) of the plates measured with an accurate scale? Are they more accurate than these $2 washers? According to the 2nd link:

I have the exact same Fastenal washers that are often recommended. I live in Denver, so I was able to go right to the store and save on shipping. Mine are all between 0.616lbs and 0.623lbs (with most being 0.618lbs). I also agree about the 2" inner diameter. If you measure most plates, you will find that they actually have a larger than 2" hole. If you look at the specs for the Fastenal 2" washer, you will notice that the interior diameter is actually a little bigger than 2". This allows them to easily fit on all of my bars.

[sherman]

I have the exact same Fastenal washers that are often recommended. I live in Denver, so I was able to go right to the store and save on shipping. Mine are all between 0.616lbs and 0.623lbs (with most being 0.618lbs). I also agree about the 2" inner diameter. If you measure most plates, you will find that they actually have a larger than 2" hole. If you look at the specs for the Fastenal 2" washer, you will notice that the interior diameter is actually a little bigger than 2". This allows them to easily fit on all of my bars.

OK, I did the math. A 2" USS (the type we are talking about) flat washer can be in spec and weigh anywhere between .53 and .74 lb. The average of the two is .64 lb.

I agree with the comments about hole size. 2" is cutting it close if you run into oddball bars (and you never know what Ivanko will do next). If I go into production, I'll make the hole a bit larger.

[morebarbell]

OK, I did the math. A 2" USS (the type we are talking about) flat washer can be in spec and weigh anywhere between .53 and .74 lb. The average of the two is .64 lb....

Precision: The plates weigh 0.5 lb plus or minus 3%. I have confirmed this by weighing batches of plates on several scales, including the one at the post office. Two batches were made. One had a 3% accuracy and the other slightly less than 2%
.....
Washers - As I have explained before, the weight of 2" washers can vary over a 40% range.

The range of the industry standard may be large but what people are actually reporting is a difference typically less than 3%. I think the largest deviation was 4%. The range that has actually been observed is similar to the HalFER. The washers are cut from sheets. I suspect that the weight range for the washers produced by a single manufacturer is probably much narrower, especially in a batch, than if you compare products from the whole industry.

[Cleveland33]

The range of the industry standard may be large but what people are actually reporting is a difference typically less than 3%. I think the largest deviation was 4%. The range that has actually been observed is similar to the HalFER. The washers are cut from sheets. I suspect that the weight range for the washers produced by a single manufacturer is probably much narrower, especially in a batch, than if you compare products from the whole industry.

exactly - hence ordering a package from a distributor because they will be grouped by manufacturer.

[sherman]

The range of the industry standard may be large but what people are actually reporting is a difference typically less than 3%. I think the largest deviation was 4%. The range that has actually been observed is similar to the HalFER. The washers are cut from sheets. I suspect that the weight range for the washers produced by a single manufacturer is probably much narrower, especially in a batch, than if you compare products from the whole industry.

I agree that the washers within a production batch will be very close in weight, having been cut from the same stock. I just weighed a group of seven !" washers I had laying around. The two heaviest weighed 1.29 and 1.32 oz. The two lightest weighed 1.06 and 1.09 oz. I'm sure I just scooped them out of a bin at a hardware store. Probably at least washers from two batches in the bin.

New point.
Let's say you got eight 2" washers all weighing the midpoint weight - .64 lb.
Loading these washers two at a time will give you the following sequence of load increases on you bar (all in pounds): 1.28. 2.56, 3.84, 5.12.
Nothing very pretty about that. With eight halFERs the sequence would be: 1, 2, 3, 4. I think that's pretty.

[sherman]

exactly - hence ordering a package from a distributor because they will be grouped by manufacturer.

OK, assume all the washers in the package weigh exactly the same. Now what will they actually weigh? The only thing you can be certain of is that the each washer will weigh the same and that weight can be anywhere between .53 lb and .74 lb.

[morebarbell]

New point.
Let's say you got eight 2" washers all weighing the midpoint weight - .64 lb.
Loading these washers two at a time will give you the following sequence of load increases on you bar (all in pounds): 1.28. 2.56, 3.84, 5.12.
Nothing very pretty about that. With eight halFERs the sequence would be: 1, 2, 3, 4. I think that's pretty.

The sales pitch might work on some folks but it's not realistic. The sequence for halFERs would be very similar: 1.XX, 2.YY, 3.ZZ, 4.AA..... very similar to the washers since both have a similar % deviation.

Furthermore...since you designate the halFERs as "0.5", you could choose a more desirable number for the washers such as "0.625".

so the sequence would be 1.25, 2.5, 3.75, 5 pounds which are multiples of the weights of regular olympic weight plates.

[sherman]

The sales pitch might work on some folks but it's not realistic. The sequence for halFERs would be very similar: 1.XX, 2.YY, 3.ZZ, 4.AA..... very similar to the washers since both have a similar % deviation.

Furthermore...since you designate the halFERs as "0.5", you could choose a more desirable number for the washers such as "0.625".

so the sequence would be 1.25, 2.5, 3.75, 5 pounds which are multiples of the weights of regular olympic weight plates.

Apples and oranges. The halFER sequence, including the deviation would be 1.03, 2.06, 3.09, 4.12 (close enough for hard core). That ranges from .5 oz to 2 oz.

Sorry but your .625 sequence still looks homely to me. And how do you go about getting .625's. No supplier gives you a weight choice.

Bottom line: I strongly recommend that anyone, who wants to use 2" USS washers for microloading, do so. There is plenty of info in this thread to help you make that decision.

[morebarbell]

Apples and oranges. The halFER sequence, including the deviation would be 1.03, 2.06, 3.09, 4.12 (close enough for hard core). That ranges from .5 oz to 2 oz.

Sorry but your .625 sequence still looks homely to me. And how do you go about getting .625's. No supplier gives you a weight choice.

Bottom line: I strongly recommend that anyone, who wants to use 2" USS washers for microloading, do so. There is plenty of info in this thread to help you make that decision.

You don't use 1 1/4, 2 1/2, and 5 pound weights???

2 1/2 and 5 pound weights are included in every weight set that I've ever seen (in the US). They're multiples of 0.625... increasing by 2x.

0.5 fits better with the metric system (kilograms).

The deviation seems to be about the same for the scrap metal squares and the washers. You could just as easily put a sticker printed with a nominal weight on the washers... "0.625" or "1 pair for 1.25".

If someone wants 1 pound increments instead, it is possible to sand or mill the washers to remove some of the metal so that they each weigh 0.5 lbs... or buy a different washer. Of course, 0.5 lb fractional weight plates are already available from Rogue, Ironwoodyfitness and many other companies. My "homely" system would have been some different than a copy of what's already commercially available from everyone else.

I find the washers much less "homely" than the scrap metal squares. A more professional looking plate might be produced by CNC cutting round weight plates... possibly the way Rogue does it. Of course, those already exist... and in a number of different materials ranging from powder-coated steel to RHA (the stuff used for armor plating).

If you do go the CNC route, you could mill them to look like regular weight plates to help set them apart from the others.

[sherman]

You don't use 1 1/4, 2 1/2, and 5 pound weights???

2 1/2 and 5 pound weights are included in every weight set that I've ever seen (in the US). They're multiples of 0.625... increasing by 2x.

0.5 fits better with the metric system (kilograms).

The deviation seems to be about the same for the scrap metal squares and the washers. You could just as easily put a sticker printed with a nominal weight on the washers... "0.625" or "1 pair for 1.25".

If someone wants 1 pound increments instead, it is possible to sand or mill the washers to remove some of the metal so that they each weigh 0.5 lbs... or buy a different washer. Of course, 0.5 lb fractional weight plates are already available from Rogue, Ironwoodyfitness and many other companies. My "homely" system would have been some different than a copy of what's already commercially available from everyone else.

I find the washers much less "homely" than the scrap metal squares. A more professional looking plate might be produced by CNC cutting round weight plates... possibly the way Rogue does it. Of course, those already exist... and in a number of different materials ranging from powder-coated steel to RHA (the stuff used for armor plating).

If you do go the CNC route, you could mill them to look like regular weight plates to help set them apart from the others.

I don't think the washers are homely, just the weight sequence.
The halFERS are not made from scrap.
Rogue sells .5 lb plate as part of set that cost about $80 with shipping - the set includes two .5's
No one makes or sells .625 lb washers.
I don't have a CNC machine, but as the hard core guys on the forum say, "weight is weight".
The cost savings between eight halFERS shipped and eight 2" washers is about 5 to to $15, depending where you buy your washers.

Thanks for the comments.

[sherman]

Here's a tip for those of you wishing to use washers, Harbor Freight has a great little 1000 gram (2.2 lb) digital scale. I checked mine out and its about 98-99% accurate. (And those of you looking for hidden Shermworks code words, "wishing to use washers" is not a code for "wish-washy".)

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-gr...ale-97920.html

If you go bin diving at a local hardware store, take this along, or something like it, and you can cherry pick the bin for the proper weight washers.

[twodog]

I hate bringing this thread up, but... why buy butt-ugly halfer's (lol) for $35 when you can buy a nice looking CFF set for about $50 shipped, The CFF set includes 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 lb. plates for a true microloading experience.

http://www.amazon.com/CFF-Olympic-Fr...f+micro+plates

[sherman]

I hate bringing this thread up, but... why buy butt-ugly halfer's (lol) for $35 when you can buy a nice looking CFF set for about $50 shipped, The CFF set includes 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 lb. plates for a true microloading experience.

http://www.amazon.com/CFF-Olympic-Fr...f+micro+plates

I have a hard time seeing whats ugly about a metal rectangle, painted black, with a 2" hole in it. To each his/her own.

If you want to go up a pound at a time to four pounds then switch over to 2.5's, the halfers are less complicated - just keep adding a pair for every pound up.

With the colored doughnuts it goes like this (there are other sequences, I had to pick one)
pound one - add 2x.5
pound two - remove 2x.5 and add 2x1.0
pound three - add 2x.5
pond four4 - remove 2x.5 add 2x.75 add 2x.25
This looks butt ugly to me.

[Accutron]

If I were to invent something, they would be called PAIRS. Matching colors and denoted weight would be for the pair for plates.

Like
Pair 1 =1lbs
Pair 2 =2lbs
Pair 3 =3lbs
Pair 4 =4lbs

So its really simple, if you want to go up to say 103lbs, just load 100 with regular set, then add the PAIR-3 and you are at 103. You dont have to calculate each side...I would only offer full pound incremental-pairs.

[sherman]

If I were to invent something, they would be called PAIRS. Matching colors and denoted weight would be for the pair for plates.

Like
Pair 1 =1lbs
Pair 2 =2lbs
Pair 3 =3lbs
Pair 4 =4lbs

So its really simple, if you want to go up to say 103lbs, just load 100 with regular set, then add the PAIR-3 and you are at 103. You dont have to calculate each side...I would only offer full pound incremental-pairs.

Seems like a good idea. Better than 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1

I think using the term microloading makes the halFER seem like more than it is. It's really just a 1/2 pound olympic plate. Not any inventiveness or cleverness involved. If other companies were making a 1/2 pounder (not part of a multi-weight set) I wouldn't even consider making one.

[morebarbell]

In addition to the 0.5 lb plates in sets from Rogue, Ironwoody, CFF, and others....



Eleiko makes some really nice looking 0.25 kg plates. It's kg, not lbs. But 0.25 kg is 0.55 lbs, which is pretty close. They're about $13 each which is more expensive per pound than the full set from Rogue. But Eleiko is always expensive--it's Eleiko.


http://www.ironmind-store.com/Eleiko.../1218-MP-0.25/

At such a VERY small weight increment, I wonder if balancing is really much of an issue. The nominal weight of the plates can be off by more. And a few millimeters change in the precise placement of your hands on the bar would probably affect the balance more than one lbs. Unless the conditions are very strict, one might microload by putting just one 1 lb plate on one side, instead of a 0.5 lb plate on each side..

Pendlay sells a pair of 1 lb plates for $5.


http://www.pendlay.com/Pendlay-Black...ir_p_1021.html

Loading a single 1 1/4 lb plate could be another option.



Edit:
Ivanko also makes 0.25 kg (0.55 lb) plates that can be purchased separately.


And here are a few more for our friends in the UK.
http://shop.mattknightspersonaltrain...4_1508288.aspx
https://www.strengthshop.co.uk/weigh...nal-plate.html
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/microloader-plates-250g

[morebarbell]

Seems like a good idea. Better than 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1

I think using the term microloading makes the halFER seem like more than it is. It's really just a 1/2 pound olympic plate. Not any inventiveness or cleverness involved. If other companies were making a 1/2 pounder (not part of a multi-weight set) I wouldn't even consider making one.

I like the fractional weights but for those that want fractional weights but don't like fractions, the 1 lb plates might be an option.