I have been reading about guys who do this when they are bulking without the excessive carbs and I have read where some guys have cheat days when cutting but stay within their macros. I am cutting and considering having a meal with a lot of carbs, something like pizza because I have been below 200 g of carbs for several months now and I think it might be helpful. So what are your guy's thoughts on this? Is it worth possibly shocking my system, or is that just bro science? Or should I just have a cheat meal and keep it within my macros?
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Thread: Carb Refeeding
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01-17-2013, 08:14 PM #1
Carb Refeeding
The Unexamined Life is not worth living
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01-17-2013, 10:48 PM #2
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01-18-2013, 01:46 AM #3
Best whey I can explain it is....
If you stay at low carbs for an excessive amount of time the body looks to store fat for energy. So, it is best to "refeed" often.
I am a huge fan of carb cycling! Now heres the thing with cycling carbs... Everyone is different. I have a friend who let's say for example does this...
75 grms carbs
150 grams
250 grams
150 grams
75 grams then repeat.
I on the other hand will go 5 days with about 150grams per day then take a day with 400-450 and repeat.
It's trial and error to find out what works best for each individual.
Then again see my sig about science. So, take it for what it's worth.Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-18-2013, 03:30 AM #4
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Crystal Lake, Illinois, United States
- Age: 53
- Posts: 58
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Pizza
Good shock. After weeks of eating clean low glycemic carbs, that pizza is a nice shock. Yea the bread is high on the charts but the cheese slows down the digestion part. I've noticed that after the cheat meal, your body goes ape$hit. You get hot, veiny and hungrier. Key is to know when to stop cuz I can end up eating the whole pie.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/over-40-amateur-of-the-week-iron-workhorse.html
No free lunch here, you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band!
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01-18-2013, 04:12 AM #5
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01-18-2013, 05:35 AM #6
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01-18-2013, 10:09 AM #7
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01-18-2013, 10:32 AM #8No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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01-18-2013, 11:25 AM #9
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01-18-2013, 12:07 PM #10
Layne Norton recommends weekly refeeds once you go under 10% BF. Above 12=15% it is not necessarily as critical. (I dont know where you are at)
As you lean out, the effects of carbs and carb depletion are MUCH more visible. I can shift 8lbs on a good refeed...1g of stored glycogen takes almost 3 g of water to store it in the muscle.RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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01-18-2013, 12:20 PM #11
- Join Date: Dec 2011
- Location: Washington, United States
- Age: 49
- Posts: 616
- Rep Power: 652
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01-18-2013, 12:45 PM #12
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01-18-2013, 04:34 PM #13
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01-18-2013, 04:39 PM #14
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01-18-2013, 05:49 PM #15
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01-18-2013, 05:52 PM #16
- Join Date: Jan 2012
- Location: Chatsworth, Georgia, United States
- Posts: 5,244
- Rep Power: 14152
At 12ish% I can tell a difference in vascularity when I up the carbs. I stay around 150 or less for the most part, but a day of 250 and I get really veins everywhere when pumped up. I have just started to add a day here and there with extra carbs since I have kinda stalled out on the weight loss. Hope it will help get me going in the right direction again.
Eric
PR's
squat 335x1
benchpress 245x1
DB Benchpress 100'sx6
Bent over rows 245x8
deadlifts 445x1
Military press 130x6
Chin-ups BW+100x2
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=144259741 My workout journal
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01-18-2013, 05:56 PM #17
I'm cutting at the moment and get about 250-300g carbs a day, but the day before legs I bump it up to 400g.
I eat normal and add extra Orange Juice and cereal with a banana. It's pretty easy to get extra carbs without adding much fat (or protein for that matter).
Muscles look full the day after and I'm full of energy. It's all good.
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01-18-2013, 06:01 PM #18
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01-18-2013, 06:49 PM #19
So I used up all my calories basically eating carbs today. Measured my bf and it came back at 16% which seems low looking at me. Didn't lift today but my veins are showing like crazy in my arms. May be worth continuing to do, guess a little experimenting wont hurt.
The Unexamined Life is not worth living
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01-18-2013, 06:52 PM #20
And how would you know? I was on a keto diet and I did two weeks with minimal carbs and never saw any benefits from the carbups. Eating more carbs I don't feel an energy boost, I don't know things definately are not the same for everyone or maybe I have just never been lean enough to see the benfits?
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01-18-2013, 07:00 PM #21
Been doing this shyt for 25+ years.
Ok I'll bite....
How many carbs were you taking in each day for two weeks and what food source for carbs.
On your carb load day how many carbs, what food and did you do any cardio or train intensely on the carb load day?Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-18-2013, 07:27 PM #22
That was a while ago but off the top of my head I was keeping carbs around 25 grams with mostly vegies and I was lifting at least 4 days a week and would do a full body depletion workout fasted the day of the carb load. I got the information from the keto forum on how many carbs for refeed I think it was at least 2X your body weight. I tried different food for the refeeds and I even did the pizza buffet once and stayed away from the meat toppings to help reduce the fat intake. I have been unable to get below 160 lbs because of my apetite but with keto I managed to get to 153 and that was about as low as I could get it.
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01-18-2013, 07:48 PM #23
Based on this I have to say that the "depleted workout fasted" was unnecessary. If you were taking in only 25 grams of carbs and training... You were already depleted before doing this. Actually, it would be counter productive of building muscle IMO. 2x bodyweight is a good baseline to start with. I recommend using potatoes or rice rather than pizza for the carbs. A good thing to try is going with a two day with something like 200 grams then 350 then low. My guess it that you were already depleted after a couple to three days with only 25 grams a day and should cycle them closer together if you go that low. Again I highly recommend never to go that low while building or maintaining muscle.
So, I do stand by my original words... Paying attention to detail is what makes or breaks the refeed. There is not thinking or guessing after a person figures out what is best for them.Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-18-2013, 08:07 PM #24
That was some of the extremes I tried, I did try many different things. The main thing is on keto I never felt an energy drop but I am a low energy person to begin with. I am trying a very slow gain right now on a high volume routine so I am keeping my carbs up around 300 so I don't have to worry about any of this right now but I will keep it in mind when my next cut comes around.
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01-19-2013, 01:00 AM #25
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01-19-2013, 06:14 AM #26
Ok people, this guy is trying to confuse everyone with an open ended statement....
I will expand on it....
Yes, it is true that fat will be burned for an amount of time. To be in ketosis for extended periods of time is not wise.
When a person is truely in a ketosis state for extended periods of time, health problems may occur not to mention proper brain function. There is a reason why nobody does the Polumbo diet anymore.
For a person who wants to gain/maintain muscle mass/strength carb ups "refeeds" to restore glycogen levels are imparative.
Without doing so... A person will be spinning thier wheels.
I could have used technical terms and went into more depth but as I told this guy once already....
Google is ------------------>
Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-19-2013, 07:03 AM #27
Great thread!
Can someone directly address this question?
With a "Cheat" meal, do you still stay within your macros? I don't get the idea... is the idea that you can eat a 6=800 cal meal, blow your daily intake and be fine or are you supposed to skip the next meal cuz you blew your daily load?Luceo non uro - "I shine not burn"
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01-19-2013, 07:20 AM #28
This counting calories has gotten blown whey out of proportion over the past year or so if you ask me.
I have and always will keep it simple...
Every meal is protein rich.
Carbs are adjusted to the scale.
Healthy fats by eating nuts throughout the day.
So IMO if a person is on a keto diet one cheat meal isn't going to do it. You need to eat carbs through a day. This is where a lot of people get frustrated and or confused when they spend all the time going very low on carbs then only eat one meal with "higher" carbs. They most likely won't see any result from just one meal.
So, in short... Calorie smalorie!Last edited by ntrllftr; 01-19-2013 at 07:29 AM.
Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-19-2013, 07:28 AM #29
That may be all well and good for someone like you who has "Been doing this shyt for 25+ years." But, for some dumb slob like me who put on 40 extra pounds by eating like an idiot after quitting smoking for 25+ years, smackro's have been pretty damn useful in dropping that fuggin extra fat. Counting calories has been extremely useful as well. Prior to doing so, I would have never known how much I was consuming... which, in fact, was a LOT.
I understand where you are coming from because it's all you hear about on these boards and that is because it is the most critical piece of weight gain and loss.Luceo non uro - "I shine not burn"
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01-19-2013, 07:34 AM #30
Not really. What you did was cut the garbage out and whatched what you ate.(most likely) and great job man for doing it. That stuff is hard to keep up! Knowing the amount of protein and or carbs per meal is exactly the same as someone who counts the calories in that meal. I think it is easier. that's all.
Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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