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    Dendrobium Extract: How Long Before its Banned

    Topic.

    Ephedrine got banned. DMAA got banned. So for the ones that believe Dendrobium will be sticking around, what makes Dendrobium any different that you think it won't be banned?

    Can Dendrobium Extract be bought in pure powder form/bulk?
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    Kinda still lifts Valhallabound86's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ryanrodrigo View Post
    Topic.

    Ephedrine got banned. DMAA got banned. So for the ones that believe Dendrobium will be sticking around, what makes Dendrobium any different that you think it won't be banned?

    Can Dendrobium Extract be bought in pure powder form/bulk?
    Ephedrine's not banned, it's just not marketed for dietary use since some studies found that grossly high amounts impacted obese individuals.

    DMAA was banned due to it not occurring naturally in nature, though with new studies seeming to indicate it does. Unsure what will happen next. Theoretically, since it's an extract from a naturally occurring source, it may squeak by the FDA. But they have banned things regardless, so who knows.
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    Cell Technician Diesel0022's Avatar
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    Dendrobium can be bought in bulk, but, it is specific alkaloids which yield the desired effects.
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    3D Water Chestnuts NO HYPE's Avatar
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    This isn't the same scenario as DMAA, as there is no question as to it's plant origin, and dendrobium is a long-time constituent of Chinese medicine.

    It's future in dietary supplements will likely not be an issue, as safety studies [by Driven Sports amongst others], will be revealed in the near future.

    On a side note, a new species will be emerging soon i.e. Golden Emperor Number 1, which is a new crossbreed between Dendrobium tosaense and Dendrobium stem, so it should be interesting to see what research will uncover about Dendrobium's potential health benefits.
    Last edited by NO HYPE; 01-07-2013 at 06:19 AM.
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    interact with me PinchTheBear's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Valhallabound86 View Post
    Ephedrine's not banned, it's just not marketed for dietary use since some studies found that grossly high amounts impacted obese individuals.
    There were no studies of that sort. Ephedrine along with its rotamers is a constituent of ephedra, which was indeed banned although it really shouldn't have been.
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    Kinda still lifts Valhallabound86's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PinchTheBear View Post
    There were no studies of that sort. Ephedrine along with its rotamers is a constituent of ephedra, which was indeed banned although it really shouldn't have been.
    Ah alright. Had been a while since I've seen the study that was referenced. Thanks for the clarification.
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    I have never used any of the above. they any good?
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    Originally Posted by alexistheboss View Post
    I have never used any of the above. they any good?
    Yes they are, but for somebody who is chubby or fat working their butt off in the gym. You're skinny so I would not recommend any of these ingredients/products mentioned
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    Originally Posted by ryanrodrigo View Post
    You're skinny so I would not recommend any of these ingredients/products mentioned
    Dendrobium's only good for fat asses?
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  10. #10
    up the dosage eatyourspinach's Avatar
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    Regardless of them being "banned" supps with DMAA are still easily available, Ephedrine a little harder but still available. Its mostly just a case of certain retailers not wanting to sell the supps to avoid any legal repercussions.
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    Constitutionist/Masculist Purge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ryanrodrigo View Post
    Yes they are, but for somebody who is chubby or fat working their butt off in the gym. You're skinny so I would not recommend any of these ingredients/products mentioned
    I'd recommend it for just about anyone who's serious about physical fitness.

    And yeah, it's probably just a matter of time. When it gets banned, I plan on buying as many bottles of Craze that I can and stashing them in my refrigerator.
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    Well throwing Craze in the trash it only works for fatties, god damn it DS I've been had.
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    Just to clear up some confusion...DMAA is NOT banned and is still completely fine to use in dietary supplements in the U.S. It hasn't gone anywhere and may not ever.

    Ephedrine is simply controlled and cannot be sold as a supplement in the U.S. Ephedra extract I do believe is banned.

    I don't see dendrobium going anywhere either, but of course I can't totally predict the future. I'm not sure where you could find it in bulk. Most supplement ingredients come from China but you may be able to find somewhere domestic that will send you a small amount.
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    I doubt Dendrobium will go anywhere.
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    reminds me that i've been meaning to try that dendrobium 600.
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    Originally Posted by ryanrodrigo View Post
    Yes they are, but for somebody who is chubby or fat working their butt off in the gym. You're skinny so I would not recommend any of these ingredients/products mentioned
    Ironically ephedrine increase BAT activity more in lean than obese individuals
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23064293
    Although its impacts on locomotor activity and appetite suppression are obviously muy bueno for anyone trying to cut down body fat
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    The third Craze study just finished (chronic dosing, 6 weeks continued use for safety and efficacy) and the results were very good. The abstract and full manuscript are being written in hopes of getting it published early this year. Without giving any specifics there were no statistical differences between Craze and placebo with regards to safety markers and vital signs. Craze did increase focus, concentration and energy as well as improve the lean body mass to fat mass ratio (increase in lean mass with a decrease in fat) whereas the placebo group did not.

    There were a couple trends that were really positive for Craze also but not statistically significant over the course of the 6 weeks. Im trying to work up a budget for an even longer study with more participants to see if those trend lines would continue.

    As soon as I can release more specific data I will.
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    Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    The third Craze study just finished (chronic dosing, 6 weeks continued use for safety and efficacy) and the results were very good. The abstract and full manuscript are being written in hopes of getting it published early this year. Without giving any specifics there were no statistical differences between Craze and placebo with regards to safety markers and vital signs. Craze did increase focus, concentration and energy as well as improve the lean body mass to fat mass ratio (increase in lean mass with a decrease in fat) whereas the placebo group did not.

    There were a couple trends that were really positive for Craze also but not statistically significant over the course of the 6 weeks. Im trying to work up a budget for an even longer study with more participants to see if those trend lines would continue.

    As soon as I can release more specific data I will.
    Thanks for that info. I think I will switch from Gaspari Detonate to Craze. Craze is cheaper and for one serving has heavier mass of Dendrobium Extract than two pills of Gaspari Detonate (1400mg Dendi Extract)
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    Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    The third Craze study just finished (chronic dosing, 6 weeks continued use for safety and efficacy) and the results were very good. The abstract and full manuscript are being written in hopes of getting it published early this year. Without giving any specifics there were no statistical differences between Craze and placebo with regards to safety markers and vital signs. Craze did increase focus, concentration and energy as well as improve the lean body mass to fat mass ratio (increase in lean mass with a decrease in fat) whereas the placebo group did not.

    There were a couple trends that were really positive for Craze also but not statistically significant over the course of the 6 weeks. Im trying to work up a budget for an even longer study with more participants to see if those trend lines would continue.

    As soon as I can release more specific data I will.
    wouldparticipate/10

    Serious though sounds awesome, excited to see these
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    Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    The third Craze study just finished (chronic dosing, 6 weeks continued use for safety and efficacy) and the results were very good. The abstract and full manuscript are being written in hopes of getting it published early this year. Without giving any specifics there were no statistical differences between Craze and placebo with regards to safety markers and vital signs. Craze did increase focus, concentration and energy as well as improve the lean body mass to fat mass ratio (increase in lean mass with a decrease in fat) whereas the placebo group did not.

    There were a couple trends that were really positive for Craze also but not statistically significant over the course of the 6 weeks. Im trying to work up a budget for an even longer study with more participants to see if those trend lines would continue.

    As soon as I can release more specific data I will.
    By the way, what is the exact amount of Dendrobium in one scoop of Craze?
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by NO HYPE View Post
    Dendrobium's only good for fat asses?
    Explains the entire OG Craze versus new Craze debacle.

    Everyone got skinnier between tubs hence them responding less favorably to subsequent tubs.
    Last edited by BogusForLife; 01-07-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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    Originally Posted by ryanrodrigo View Post
    Thanks for that info. I think I will switch from Gaspari Detonate to Craze. Craze is cheaper and for one serving has heavier mass of Dendrobium Extract than two pills of Gaspari Detonate (1400mg Dendi Extract)
    Even though you get more servings of Craze compared to Detonate they really are two different products and benefits for them. Detonate works much better for me for lowering my appetite and the rest of the ingredients in the formula would be more beneficial to losing weight. There is nothing better then Craze preworkout IMO. Detonate before a workout is good but the formula for Craze focuses around performance in the gym. I dont really view them as like interchangeable products for the same use.

    Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    wouldparticipate/10

    Serious though sounds awesome, excited to see these
    So would I. I have always wondered where they recruit these people for supplements studies. We have been trying to build on each successive study by either doing it longer, testing for more things or adding more people. I think an 8 week 60 person double blind placebo controlled study which looked at body comp and workout performance would be really cool. 1 rep max and total weight lifted went up in this last study but I think 2 more weeks would have helped to make them statistically significant.

    Over the 6 week study though it would suggest there isnt this "rapid tolerance build up" some people like to claim happens.

    Originally Posted by ryanrodrigo View Post
    By the way, what is the exact amount of Dendrobium in one scoop of Craze?
    Its currently still a proprietary dose.
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    Originally Posted by Sldge View Post
    So would I. I have always wondered where they recruit these people for supplements studies. We have been trying to build on each successive study by either doing it longer, testing for more things or adding more people. I think an 8 week 60 person double blind placebo controlled study which looked at body comp and workout performance would be really cool. 1 rep max and total weight lifted went up in this last study but I think 2 more weeks would have helped to make them statistically significant.

    Over the 6 week study though it would suggest there isnt this "rapid tolerance build up" some people like to claim happens.
    Definitely awesome that you guys do this, excited to see what else is in the pipeline.
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    Originally Posted by BogusForLife View Post
    Explains the entire OG Craze versus new Craze debacle.

    Everyone got fatter between tubs hence them responding less favorably to subsequent tubs.
    You got it backwards but still valiant effort chap.
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    Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    Ironically ephedrine increase BAT activity more in lean than obese individuals
    Although its impacts on locomotor activity and appetite suppression are obviously muy bueno for anyone trying to cut down body fat
    BAT activation accounts for a negligible amount of ECA stack's lipolytic effects, so this difference really doesn't matter.

    The study also used around 150-250mg ephedrine per subject without caffeine. This study does has implications for health, but the inability to pharmacologically activate BAT is probably common among the obese and not intrinsic to ephedrine.
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    Since no one besides DS and maybe Gaspari knows the active constituents of dendrobium, I don't think a ban is likely.
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    Originally Posted by gymrat53 View Post
    You got it backwards but still valiant effort chap.

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    Originally Posted by ElektroMagnus View Post
    BAT activation accounts for a negligible amount of ECA stack's lipolytic effects, so this difference really doesn't matter.


    Originally Posted by ElektroMagnus View Post
    The study also used around 150-250mg ephedrine per subject without caffeine. This study does has implications for health, but the inability to pharmacologically activate BAT is probably common among the obese and not intrinsic to ephedrine.
    I was mind shattered when I first read the dosed of ephedrine used. Caffeine is certainly a key player in fat loss as an AMPK activator
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    Originally Posted by BogusForLife View Post
    Dammit!
    haha
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    Originally Posted by ElektroMagnus View Post
    Since no one besides DS and maybe Gaspari knows the active constituents of dendrobium, I don't think a ban is likely.
    Everyone who can read the label knows the active constituents
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