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  1. #1
    Registered User Boris2k12's Avatar
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    Lyle McDonald VS BodyBuilding (forums)

    Ok so almost 90% of the threads/posts on this forum suggest the keto diet should be taken under a macro ratio of 65% fat 30% protein %5 carbs but I was reading up on what Lyle McDonald thought about keto and he seems to think just the opposite and provides really valid point as to why that is. So this has got me wondering; Are a lot of people here really misinformed about keto? or is Lyle just wrong for once.

    The article:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rotein-qa.html

    Also just to clarify I understand that BOTH methods work but I'm wondering which one you think is more in the interest of bodybuilding.

    Discuss.
    Last edited by Boris2k12; 01-03-2013 at 07:37 AM.
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  2. #2
    'Tis but a scratch j1akey's Avatar
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    I'm using a keto - carb cycle type diet for fat loss at the moment, not necessarily bodybuilding. I use a ratio of fats and protein similar to what you mention there and carb up once a week. If my fat intake gets too low I notice I start getting headaches and start to run low on energy.

    I don't think lyle is wrong but there is more than one way to skin a cat also. I'm doing a protocol called Carb Nite that was developed by John Keifer which is basically a 1:1 fat/protein (in grams) and then you stick in a bunch of carbs say once a week to get the hormone boost. It's working out pretty well for me, I've gotten stronger, I've leaned out, and I don't count calories.

    Again there's more than one way to do things, Lyle is a smart dude to be sure but that doesn't mean his way is the only way, it's just a way.
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  3. #3
    =^.^= CatFoodbrah's Avatar
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    as long as youre getting enough protein, rest, a surplus of cals and regular carb ups you should be fine and putting on mass.
    keto is more for weight loss, however isnt there a diet called anabolic diet which is pretty much high fat/protein low carb?
    Last edited by CatFoodbrah; 01-02-2013 at 11:49 PM.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Boris2k12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by j1akey View Post
    I'm using a keto - carb cycle type diet for fat loss at the moment, not necessarily bodybuilding. I use a ratio of fats and protein similar to what you mention there and carb up once a week. If my fat intake gets too low I notice I start getting headaches and start to run low on energy.

    I don't think lyle is wrong but there is more than one way to skin a cat also. I'm doing a protocol called Carb Nite that was developed by John Keifer which is basically a 1:1 fat/protein (in grams) and then you stick in a bunch of carbs say once a week to get the hormone boost. It's working out pretty well for me, I've gotten stronger, I've leaned out, and I don't count calories.

    Again there's more than one way to do things, Lyle is a smart dude to be sure but that doesn't mean his way is the only way, it's just a way.
    I like your 50/50 idea, If what you say about low fat intake giving you headaches effects me as well I'll probably go with that but right now I'm pretty sold on Lyle's idea - At the end of the day as long as I lose minimal muscle mass I'll be happy - I don't want to end up losing a tone of muscle because I followed some diet that's meant for diabetics losing WEIGHT (muscle included) instead of fat.
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  5. #5
    Peanut Butter Kryptonite BannisterJ's Avatar
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    It appears Lyle is referencing his psmf diet in that article in regards to high protein, low fat. That style diet is a more short term solution and could be miserable for most to sustain, not to mention the effects on hormones. The typical long term, and more sustainable, keto approach is the ~60/35/5 calories split. This ends up being approximately 1:1 p/f macro ratio since calories in fat are a little over double that of protein. The extremely high fat diet is just for epileptic treatment and I'm not sure if anyone here would want to use that approach.

    On a side note, I've recently used Keifer's CBL approach as a reverse diet (was in a deep deficit far too long) with decent results. I'm just doing a typical keto diet now. I may switch to the CNS eventually if I start needing carbups.
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  6. #6
    Registered User texicus's Avatar
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    PSMF is a ketogenic diet, but it is not "the" ketogenic diet... it's a short term crash diet for bodybuilding/fitness competitors or weight-class athletes that need to cut lbs fast. personally I've used it a few times (loosely) for holiday damage control. the 60/35/5 is traditional keto, whereas lyle's RFL is nearly 100% protein, as little carbs/fat as possible, and 10g essential fatty acids through fish oil supplementation. that's it
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    Registered User bnp369's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CatFoodbrah View Post
    as long as youre getting enough protein, rest, a surplus of cals and regular carb ups you should be fine and putting on mass.
    keto is more for weight loss, however isnt there a diet called anabolic diet which is pretty much high fat/protein low carb?
    Yes sir! With sufficient carb ups and protein, strength and weight gains (usually lean) should come, even if more slowly than a traditional bulking diet. For example, on a regular "clean bulk" you could put on 10 lbs in 5 weeks, only 5 of which being muscle. On a CKD, you probably (guessing) gain 5 pounds in 10 weeks, all of which being muscle. Pick your poison I guess.
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  8. #8
    Beetje bij beetje IgboMeso's Avatar
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    What lyle is saying makes sense. You should normally set adequate protein first, then a minimum amount of carbs in grams. Then the remainder of the kcals should come from fat. As long is the correct amount of protein and a minimal amount of carbs is used the ratios are not so important. The ketogenic diet, bodyopus, carb nite, etc they all work on the same principles. Ultra low carbs and then protein plus fat.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Adonisanemone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Boris2k12 View Post
    Also just to clarify I understand that BOTH methods work but I'm wondering which one you think is more in the interest of bodybuilding.
    From your link :
    And, in the context of Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, given the explicit goals of that diet, that means keeping fat intake very low (limited only to essential fatty acids and the tagalongs that are unavoidable with whole foods)
    If I were to choose between the 2 ketogenic diets, why choose 90-95% PROTEIN over 90-95% FAT?
    That is, people who want to change body composition aren’t just interested in weight loss per se, they want to maximize fat loss while (generally speaking) minimizing the loss of lean body mass. And the simple fact is that a 90% fat ketogenic diet, due to the low protein content won’t do that
    If the goal were epilepsy treatment, the high-fat ketogenic diet would be the appropriate choice
    He is comparing the merits of using a keto diet used to treat epilepsy for losing weight. The two are set up for entirely different purposes. 90% fat prevents epilepsy and 90% protein is for rapid weight loss. At no point does he state that either should be used for bodybuilding.
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  10. #10
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    OP, did you really just ask the Keto section whether Keto was ok?
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