Your wise input on my training/nutrition regime

[ChickenChops]

Hi all,

first of all I'd like to say what a great source of info the forums and articles on this website have been since I started reading a few months ago, so, thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience This is my very first post here and although I've read a few stickies (including the "critique my diet one"!) I'm a complete noob to all this so please don't be offended if you find that my post is lacking some advanced information, I'm only here to learn!

Me and my goals:

I'm a 25 year-old female and I'm no stranger to clean eating but this is the first time I've had a detailed workout plan designed for me (I used to only go to the gym to kill myself on the elliptical for hours on end... which I now understand is pretty dumb) and I'm wondering what results to expect and whether my instructor might actually be going too easy on me. I don't even know whether I am lightly active or very active or what, that's how clueless I am. Now I must stress that I'm not aiming for a really ripped body, I don't want to bulk up or get bigger, just to lose a few pounds of fat and tone up and look great.

I'm a very tiny person: 152 cm (4'11) and 45kg (99.2 pounds at the moment) and for that reason my calorie requirements are way lower than most females; I also have an autoimmune disease called Hashimoto which affects the way my thyroid works and forever dooms me to a very low metabolism, which is why I'm hoping that gaining some muscle mass will allow me to eat more without gaining weight. My maintenance calorie intake is roughly 1400-1500 kcal... Anything more than that and I pile on the pounds I've lost about a stone in the past few months by eating 1200 kcal a day (with one day of indulgence a week for my own sanity) but I'm not happy with the way I look... skinny/fat, not a muscle in my body by the looks of it. I have no idea what my BF% might be but it must be pretty high!

Nutrition:

My diet varies on a daily basis (I cook for 2) but I always try to keep it high in fiber and protein and low in fat and simple carbs. I've read that my protein intake (given the strain on my muscles since I've started exercising again) should be 1.6 x bodyweight so I usually keep it around 70g per day... Is that too low/too high/just right? Everything else I eat is veggies and complex carbs, bit of cheese and olive oil thrown in for good measure. As I said I try to eat 1200 kcal but I just came back from a 10-day vacation where I ate loads and drank like a fish so it's a bit hard to get back on track (and on the scales!), but I manage...

Training:

I go to the gym for 1 hour every other day, and I walk there too (it's a 30 min walk each way, my gym is 1.8 miles away from my house... don't know if that qualifies as cardio...). Then my fitness programme is as follows:

Cardio:
- 10 min brisk walk on the treadmill at 5 KPH, 6% incline
- 20 min interval training on the elliptical, level 6 for 3 min then 8 for 1 minute, repeat.

Resistance training (machines):
- 20 x 2 ab crunches
- 15 x 2 torso rotation (25 kg)
- 20 x 2 leg press (10 kg)
- seated row 45 s-1 min (level 4, whatever that means lol)
- chest press 45 s-1 min (level 3)
- 15 x 2 shoulder press (level 2)
- 15 x 2 lat pull-down (level 3)
- 20 x 4 hip abduction (25 kg)

Then a bit of a fiddle with fitness ball & medicine ball (1 kg)
- 20 x 2 ab crunches
- 10 x 2 back extension
- 10 x 2 ab crunches lying sit-up with med ball
- 15 x 2 ankle taps
- 10 x 2 leg raises

I usually manage to add a couple of hours walk during the week, but otherwise that's it. What d'y'all think? Am I lightly active or very active (I never know what to type in in the BMR calculators)? I've only been doing this for 2 weeks so obviously no visible results yet but does this sound like the right type of routine for me? Any advice you'd like to throw at me? Any help much appreciated

Thank you for reading through this behemoth post!

[WonderPug]

I'd suggest two things:

1. Forget everything you think you know about nutrition and start learning the basics here.
2. Drop your workout routine and substitute a proper routine such as Starting Strength.

[ChickenChops]

Wow. That's a bit harsh. I'm just a beginner but I didn't come up with my own workout routine, I sought professional advice... Why don't you tell me what you think I'm doing wrong instead?

[WonderPug]

Why don't you tell me what you think I'm doing wrong instead?

Unfortunately, it's basically everything.

Your nutrition seems to be based on silly myths and your workout program seems to be designed by someone with absolutely no knowledge of resistance training.

Please take the time to read the nutrition stickies (starting with the link posted above) and to research proper lifting routines such as Starting Strength.

[ChickenChops]

Your nutrition seems to be based on silly myths

Again, you are not explaining yourself... Surely a diet based on high protein & fiber and low GI carbs & healthy fat isn't a "silly" way of eating for burning fat and feeding muscle?! Sure, it might not be the ONLY way but that's what I like doing. As far as calorie requirements go I HAVE read the stickies. Let's break it down:

BMR

- Harris-Benedict: 655 + 432 + 273.6 - 117.5 = 1243.1
- Mifflin-St Jeor: 449.55 + 950 - 123 - 161 = 1115.55
- Katch-McArdle: I don't bother since I don't know my BF% and I'm not lean anyway.

Calories requirements (I'm studying and I sit on my arse all day so I'll leave the activity factor at sedentary):

- Harris-Benedict: 1243.1 x 1.2 = 1491.72
- Mifflin-St Jeor: 1115.55 x 1.2 = 1338.66
- simple estimation method linked: 26/30 x 45 = 1170/1350

So I'm not making anything up when I say that my maintenance requirements are around 1400 kcal/day. I know this from (years of) experience of calories counting. If I substract 20% for weight loss I get down to 1160. Hence why I try to eat about 1200 kcal a day to lose weight. And it works. I'm not deluded enough to believe my training burns much at all in terms of kcals, so EAT and NEAT numbers are both very low, maybe +150 kcals on a gym day, if that. A big fat 0 otherwise.

TEF: 15% = 180. So I guess if I ate around 1380 kcals a day I would still lose weight slowly, but whatever.

Now I will grant you that I never bothered too much about macros, I just assumed that as long as my protein intake was normal/high and I was otherwise healthy it shouldn't be a problem. But let's do it anyway.

Protein (I'm going with "high bodyfat and low training load") = 1.6 to 2.2 x 45 = 72g to 99g = 288 to 396 kcals/day
Fats ("low calorie dieting") = 0.3 x 99.2 = 29.76g = 267.84 kcals/day
Carbs (& occasional alcohol) : whatever is left over.

This sounds like what I'm doing at the moment. So again, why do you think my notions of nutrition are silly? They might be pretty basic but everything adds up so I would welcome more details and constructive criticism...

and your workout program seems to be designed by someone with absolutely no knowledge of resistance training.

Well that's reassuring... Why is that?

Please research proper lifting routines such as Starting Strength.

Won't I get bigger if I start lifting? I don't want to bulk up, I want to lose fat. I have nothing against big arms, it's the way to go for most men and I admire and respect the effort some women here have invested in competitive bodybuilding, but it's just not the look I'm going for.

[rand18m]

1400 sounds reasonable for your maintenance at your size, I suggest for now you eat around maintenance or above and train hard.

Protein at 70-100 grams is fine, fats can be 30-50 grams.

I'm not crazy about your workout routine but if you like it then I say go for it and do so with proper intensity. It really doesn't matter what your workout routine is, if there isn't adequate intensity you are not going to make the progress you desire. In time you can improve the program as you learn more about lifting with proper form, and progressing in a linear fashion. In the meantime just keep going, talk with others, read all you can and you'll figure it out.

Use moderate as an activity factor, monitor and adjust calories as needed. Good luck!

[invictus68]

Again, you are not explaining yourself... Surely a diet based on high protein & fiber and low GI carbs & healthy fat isn't a "silly" way of eating for burning fat and feeding muscle?! Sure, it might not be the ONLY way but that's what I like doing. As far as calorie requirements go I HAVE read the stickies. Let's break it down:

BMR

- Harris-Benedict: 655 + 432 + 273.6 - 117.5 = 1243.1
- Mifflin-St Jeor: 449.55 + 950 - 123 - 161 = 1115.55
- Katch-McArdle: I don't bother since I don't know my BF% and I'm not lean anyway.

Calories requirements (I'm studying and I sit on my arse all day so I'll leave the activity factor at sedentary):

- Harris-Benedict: 1243.1 x 1.2 = 1491.72
- Mifflin-St Jeor: 1115.55 x 1.2 = 1338.66
- simple estimation method linked: 26/30 x 45 = 1170/1350

So I'm not making anything up when I say that my maintenance requirements are around 1400 kcal/day. I know this from (years of) experience of calories counting. If I substract 20% for weight loss I get down to 1160. Hence why I try to eat about 1200 kcal a day to lose weight. And it works. I'm not deluded enough to believe my training burns much at all in terms of kcals, so EAT and NEAT numbers are both very low, maybe +150 kcals on a gym day, if that. A big fat 0 otherwise.

TEF: 15% = 180. So I guess if I ate around 1380 kcals a day I would still lose weight slowly, but whatever.

Now I will grant you that I never bothered too much about macros, I just assumed that as long as my protein intake was normal/high and I was otherwise healthy it shouldn't be a problem. But let's do it anyway.

Protein (I'm going with "high bodyfat and low training load") = 1.6 to 2.2 x 45 = 72g to 99g = 288 to 396 kcals/day
Fats ("low calorie dieting") = 0.3 x 99.2 = 29.76g = 267.84 kcals/day
Carbs (& occasional alcohol) : whatever is left over.

This sounds like what I'm doing at the moment. So again, why do you think my notions of nutrition are silly? They might be pretty basic but everything adds up so I would welcome more details and constructive criticism...



Well that's reassuring... Why is that?



Won't I get bigger if I start lifting? I don't want to bulk up, I want to lose fat. I have nothing against big arms, it's the way to go for most men and I admire and respect the effort some women here have invested in competitive bodybuilding, but it's just not the look I'm going for.

listen to wonderpug

[nobrah]

Won't I get bigger if I start lifting? I don't want to bulk up, I want to lose fat.

If you lack muscle, losing fat will be either very difficult or impossible past a certain point.

I have nothing against big arms, it's the way to go for most men and I admire and respect the effort some women here have invested in competitive bodybuilding, but it's just not the look I'm going for.

It seems you don't respect the effort those women have invested if you think it's not incredibly difficult or time consuming (and often requiring pharmaceutical help) to reach that level. Women have an exceptionally hard time getting "bulky". There's a disturbing belief among women and some men that lifting weights will result in the steroid riddled bodybuilder look rather than the more realistic fit and lean look that the general public admires.

The problem with your routine is low intensity and pointless exercises. A good routine for just about everyone consists of a few compound exercises done with appropriate and progressive weight. For the most part, if you're not struggling to get 8-10 reps then the weight is too low. Unless you're doing heavy weight (eg. straining to make 3-5 reps), 2 sets isn't enough.

As for exercise selection, keep it to the basics and variants of the basics:

• Bench press
• Shoulder press
• Squat
• Deadlift
• Pull up
• Row

Add accessory exercises as needed, but they should be included in a routine that's already rounded out with the main compound exercises.

Your cardio and diet setup aren't as bad as Pug is implying, just make sure that you get all of your vitamins and minerals from a varied food selection and keep in mind that a lot of what you think is necessary (eg. thinking about the glycemic index or "healthy" fats) actually isn't.

[ChickenChops]

I'm not crazy about your workout routine but if you like it then I say go for it and do so with proper intensity. It really doesn't matter what your workout routine is, if there isn't adequate intensity you are not going to make the progress you desire. In time you can improve the program as you learn more about lifting with proper form, and progressing in a linear fashion. In the meantime just keep going, talk with others, read all you can and you'll figure it out.

If you lack muscle, losing fat will be either very difficult or impossible past a certain point.


It seems you don't respect the effort those women have invested if you think it's not incredibly difficult or time consuming (and often requiring pharmaceutical help) to reach that level. Women have an exceptionally hard time getting "bulky". There's a disturbing belief among women and some men that lifting weights will result in the steroid riddled bodybuilder look rather than the more realistic fit and lean look that the general public admires.

The problem with your routine is low intensity and pointless exercises. A good routine for just about everyone consists of a few compound exercises done with appropriate and progressive weight. For the most part, if you're not struggling to get 8-10 reps then the weight is too low. Unless you're doing heavy weight (eg. straining to make 3-5 reps), 2 sets isn't enough.

As for exercise selection, keep it to the basics and variants of the basics:

• Bench press
• Shoulder press
• Squat
• Deadlift
• Pull up
• Row

Add accessory exercises as needed, but they should be included in a routine that's already rounded out with the main compound exercises.

Your cardio and diet setup aren't as bad as Pug is implying, just make sure that you get all of your vitamins and minerals from a varied food selection and keep in mind that a lot of what you think is necessary (eg. thinking about the glycemic index or "healthy" fats) actually isn't.

Thank you for your replies guys, that's helpful. I understand that I'm probably not going to get anywhere if I don't push myself harder. I by no means wish to undermine how hard it is for a woman to build muscle mass and get defined. I just don't know how my body responds to lifting. Peace.

I'm a little bit scared of purposely upping my calories (although, or maybe because, I've had a **** week in that respect, averaging at something nasty like over 1600) but I will try 1300 and see if that helps me in the gym. Do you think a good start would be to roughly stick with my routine but increase the weight so I actually have to "struggle" through it, and do more reps with each exercise? Next time I run into my instructor I'll ask him about this too... I don't think he's a complete moron like it's been implied, but he knows I'm a newbie and he probably wanted to make sure I'm not going to injure myself or something. I'm going to aim for 2-3 sessions per week + one cardio-only session.

[Tdiguy]

listen to pug....and believe it or not it is virtually impossible for you to get "bulky" as a female without roids......and for love of all men listen to this picture lol

[rand18m]

Thank you for your replies guys, that's helpful. I understand that I'm probably not going to get anywhere if I don't push myself harder. I by no means wish to undermine how hard it is for a woman to build muscle mass and get defined. I just don't know how my body responds to lifting. Peace.

I'm a little bit scared of purposely upping my calories (although, or maybe because, I've had a **** week in that respect, averaging at something nasty like over 1600) but I will try 1300 and see if that helps me in the gym. Do you think a good start would be to roughly stick with my routine but increase the weight so I actually have to "struggle" through it, and do more reps with each exercise? Next time I run into my instructor I'll ask him about this too... I don't think he's a complete moron like it's been implied, but he knows I'm a newbie and he probably wanted to make sure I'm not going to injure myself or something. I'm going to aim for 2-3 sessions per week + one cardio-only session.

In your routine you do have some compound movements, i.e. rows, presses etc. If you are brand new he very well may be starting you with a general preparedness phase, which is something I completely agree with, especially the older the person. There's nothing wrong with allowing some connective tissue adaptations before increasing strength greatly.

Having said that at your age that process shouldn't take long and in the end you need to increase the intensity and use a mixture of volume and or intensity over time. Basically listen to Nobrah and use the rep and set scheme described above, but that may well be what your instructor has in mind for you in the near future. GL