Aware me.. Supps and recovery...

[nebraskaheat]

So I was talking to a co-worker who has been lifting for years, telling him my routine, he told me I needed to work some more rest days in there.. That I'm not allowing for enough recovery time..


I mentioned all the supps I take, from my Pre, to my various pump products, to my BCAA's, creatine, and my test booster all claiming to increase recovery time. He hinted there is only one type of product that can boost recovery time, one that we don't mention here..

Anyways, it got me thinking. Do you buy any of these products for increased recovery time? So you can get a few extra lifting days in there every month?

Or is it more the amount of lifting you do per workout, not necessarily extra workouts that you see the "increased recovery" claims on all these products labels?

[gynogon]

yes one big supplement is glutamine but this form in particular is buffered glutamine and it is incredible effective for recovery and muscle growth its made by scit fit called gluta lyn. they also make a better form of cratine which is also highly rated its called kre alkalyn

[BetterThanLife]

So I was talking to a co-worker who has been lifting for years, telling him my routine, he told me I needed to work some more rest days in there.. That I'm not allowing for enough recovery time..


I mentioned all the supps I take, from my Pre, to my various pump products, to my BCAA's, creatine, and my test booster all claiming to increase recovery time. He hinted there is only one type of product that can boost recovery time, one that we don't mention here..

Anyways, it got me thinking. Do you buy any of these products for increased recovery time? So you can get a few extra lifting days in there every month?

Or is it more the amount of lifting you do per workout, not necessarily extra workouts that you see the "increased recovery" claims on all these products labels?

Reorganize your routine if you feel like you're overtraining. Depending on your exercise selection and how long your sessions last, you could train every day without overdoing it. I wish there were a supplement that could magically repair muscle damage after exercise, but it does not exist. It's mostly about proper diet and sleep.

yes one big supplement is glutamine but this form in particular is buffered glutamine and it is incredible effective for recovery and muscle growth its made by scit fit called gluta lyn. they also make a better form of cratine which is also highly rated its called kre alkalyn

I see why you are in the red zone...

[digler84]

yes one big supplement is glutamine but this form in particular is buffered glutamine and it is incredible effective for recovery and muscle growth its made by scit fit called gluta lyn. they also make a better form of cratine which is also highly rated its called kre alkalyn

Bad advice is bad.

Bad, bad, bad.

[Hansolo261]

Rest is the best thing you can do for recovery. You are giving supps way to much credit.supps may help but you still need to work in some reovery time

[nebraskaheat]

I think I must not have made myself clear..

I'm not saying I rely on my supps for my recovery.. It really isn't about me at all. I only mentioned the first part because it got me thinking of the over all question..

WHICH IS: If you only rely on rest, and don't squeeze extra workouts in, thanks to your supplements.. Why is it every supplement you take advertises increased recovery time?

Who cares about increasing your recovery time if you're not going to be able to work out more and are going with the same amount of rest regardless of wether you are taking the supp or not..

[DevinJohnAustin]

So I was talking to a co-worker who has been lifting for years, telling him my routine, he told me I needed to work some more rest days in there.. That I'm not allowing for enough recovery time..


I mentioned all the supps I take, from my Pre, to my various pump products, to my BCAA's, creatine, and my test booster all claiming to increase recovery time. He hinted there is only one type of product that can boost recovery time, one that we don't mention here..

Anyways, it got me thinking. Do you buy any of these products for increased recovery time? So you can get a few extra lifting days in there every month?

Or is it more the amount of lifting you do per workout, not necessarily extra workouts that you see the "increased recovery" claims on all these products labels?

Basically save ya self money and dont by bcaas waiste of time because protein in broken down into full chain amino acids that means all the amino acids are in so unless your veggie and cba to sort a huge lost of foods to combine to complete amino acid chains dont bother. Pump suppliments are shown to cause cancer and why need the extra pump?? Bad thing about pre workouts is the amount of chems in them and i know people who find they cant seem to have a good work out with out them thats the regular users though. Creatine it does work but i just use it before and after for my pre and post meal but thats up to you how you use use and it can cause kidney damage. But take my advice or dont just trying to save you money your bodys gonna heal at its own rate unless you use the stuff we dont talk about

[BetterThanLife]

I think I must not have made myself clear..

I'm not saying I rely on my supps for my recovery.. It really isn't about me at all. I only mentioned the first part because it got me thinking of the over all question..

WHICH IS: If you only rely on rest, and don't squeeze extra workouts in, thanks to your supplements.. Why is it every supplement you take advertises increased recovery time?

Who cares about increasing your recovery time if you're not going to be able to work out more and are going with the same amount of rest regardless of wether you are taking the supp or not..

Do you have any examples of specific products? Protein plays a crucial role in recovery, but I consider that to be part of the proper diet that I mentioned before. If you were to neglect protein, then it would impair your recovery. This is why most recovery supplements are based on protein, BCAAs, and carbs.

[nebraskaheat]

Do you have any examples of specific products? Protein plays a crucial role in recovery, but I consider that to be part of the proper diet that I mentioned before. If you were to neglect protein, then it would impair your recovery. This is why most recovery supplements are based on protein, amino acids, and carbs.

I love my protein and get plenty. In fact my first try of Trutein cinnabun is on its way to me now..

But you want an example? Okay..

From the White Flood page here on bb.com

"We also included natural antioxidants to aid recovery....."

From the SAN Fierce Domination page here on bb.com

"OPTIMAL RECOVERY - FIERCE DOMINATION's performance enhancing nutrient technology helps bring recovery enhancing nutrient technology helps bring recovery to an elite status. "

From the Scivation Xtend page here on bb.com

"Improved Neuromuscular Responsiveness & Recovery"


From the Con-Crete page here on bb.com

"Helps Support Strength, Endurance
and Muscle Recovery"

That's just a few examples.. There are thousands that claim to improve your recovery. Yet I've never heard of anyone saying "Because I'm taking 6 supps that all boost my recovery, I'm working out more often"..

So, what's the point of everyone advertising it?

Maybe it's just me, I just find it odd.

[BigBoLuke93]

Marketing 101:

Add catch phrases and extraordinary claims to draw the consumers' attention.



I have noticed improved recovery (less soreness) with some things, though.

[BetterThanLife]

I see what you mean. I hardly ever glance at product descriptions. I think anything can be twisted in a way to where it can be said that it helps with recovery. Take glutamine for instance, which was found to speed recovery time when given to hospital patients following surgery. These studies were interpreted to indicate that glutamine aids in recovery from all types of injuries, including muscle tears incurred during weightlifting.

[digler84]

I always thought the reduced recovery time was in reference to the time needed between sets. This is where I seem to see the benefit with the products you mentioned. Not necessarily recovery the following day.

[BigBoLuke93]

I always thought the reduced recovery time was in reference to the time needed between sets. This is where I seem to see the benefit with the products you mentioned. Not necessarily recovery the following day.

This as well.

[nebraskaheat]

I always thought the reduced recovery time was in reference to the time needed between sets. This is where I seem to see the benefit with the products you mentioned. Not necessarily recovery the following day.

Thank you.. This is kind of what I was originally (in my own confusing way lol) asking. Are they marketing post workout recovery, intra workout recovery, or just marketing falsely period?


I was just browsing so many supps in preparation for Black Friday sales, and noticed almost all of them claimed some sort of muscle recovery ability.. Just wanted to get some clarification on it..

[UncleWade]

Citrulline malate, at a dose of ~8g preworkout, has been shown to decrease delayed onset muscle soreness [DOMS], which I feel is a very functional real world recovery marker, in weight trained individuals by 40% in the 24-48 hour period following a workout as compared to a placebo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

SNS Citrulline Malate comes in 300g containers for about ~$20, a great and highly cost effective recovery supplement.

[Nom Z]

Citrulline malate, at a dose of ~8g preworkout, has been shown to decrease delayed onset muscle soreness [DOMS], which I feel is a very functional real world recovery marker, in weight trained individuals by 40% in the 24-48 hour period following a workout as compared to a placebo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

SNS Citrulline Malate comes in 300g containers for about ~$20, a great and highly cost effective recovery supplement.

[img]http://www.seriousnutritionsolutions.com/img/products/Citrulline-Malate.png[img]

Came in to post Citrulline Malate; recovery, other ergogenic benefits, and studied.

[digler84]

And truthfully, I use to lift 5-6 days a week and always seemed to be "stuck" regardless of what supp I took. Itwasnt until I cut down to 3-4 times per week that I really started seeing strength increases. Seems backward, but it does imply that the body truely needs rest and recuperation time to make gains. At least for me...

[nebraskaheat]

Came in to post Citrulline Malate; recovery, other ergogenic benefits, and studied.

Recovery in relationship to soreness right? "DOMS"...

I love SNS products, not trying to be nit picky, but I'm looking at a SNS Citrulline Malate page right now on another sight. I see "muscle recovery" mentioned many times. I don't see soreness or DOMS mentioned.

I read muscle recovery, it leads me to believe I'm gaining recovery benefits that will allow me to gain more workouts-gym days and less rest-recovery days.. Not just soreness relief. (which I am sure these products all help with as I take them all and never really have next day soreness)

[digler84]

Recovery in relationship to soreness right? "DOMS"...

I love SNS products, not trying to be nit picky, but I'm looking at a SNS Citrulline Malate page right now on another sight. I see "muscle recovery" mentioned many times. I don't see soreness or DOMS mentioned.

I read muscle recovery, it leads me to believe I'm gaining recovery benefits that will allow me to gain more workouts-gym days and less rest-recovery days.. Not just soreness relief. (which I am sure these products all help with as I take them all and never really have next day soreness)

Think in terms of "improved" vs taking nothing at all. Even if that is a reduction in soreness 5 minutes earlier than taking nothing, then it has done its job according to its claim. Right?

[Nom Z]

Recovery in relationship to soreness right? "DOMS"...

I love SNS products, not trying to be nit picky, but I'm looking at a SNS Citrulline Malate page right now on another sight. I see "muscle recovery" mentioned many times. I don't see soreness or DOMS mentioned.

I read muscle recovery, it leads me to believe I'm gaining recovery benefits that will allow me to gain more workouts-gym days and less rest-recovery days.. Not just soreness relief. (which I am sure these products all help with as I take them all and never really have next day soreness)

If you read through the study abstract Wade posted above, "relieve postexercise muscle soreness", which is what the write-up is getting at when mentioning "muscle recovery".

[Swamp Dog]

Recovery in relationship to soreness right? "DOMS"...

I love SNS products, not trying to be nit picky, but I'm looking at a SNS Citrulline Malate page right now on another sight. I see "muscle recovery" mentioned many times. I don't see soreness or DOMS mentioned.

I read muscle recovery, it leads me to believe I'm gaining recovery benefits that will allow me to gain more workouts-gym days and less rest-recovery days.. Not just soreness relief. (which I am sure these products all help with as I take them all and never really have next day soreness)

And you probably won't see any supps declaring the ability to reduce soreness because marketers know that this sounds too otc pain reliefery.

[Hawks58]

Citrulline malate, at a dose of ~8g preworkout, has been shown to decrease delayed onset muscle soreness [DOMS], which I feel is a very functional real world recovery marker, in weight trained individuals by 40% in the 24-48 hour period following a workout as compared to a placebo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

Sorry but a reduction/elimination of DOMs does not = muscle recovery. That would be like saying I worked a muscle group, the next day it is not sore; therefore I can work it again/it is fully recovered. Which is not true. A reduction in DOMs =/= recovered.

Personally no OTC supplement will decrease recovery time enough for it to matter for me. Even with the "that which we do not speak" overtraining a muscle group and not allowing enough recovery time is still possible. As you must also remember the connecting tendons do not grow at the same rate as muscles, only one thing will help them grow faster. It is quite possible to have muscles outgrow the ability of the tendon to hold it (If that makes sense in a much more simplified manner).

[Nom Z]

Sorry but a reduction/elimination of DOMs does not = muscle recovery. That would be like saying I worked a muscle group, the next day it is not sore; therefore I can work it again/it is fully recovered. Which is not true. A reduction in DOMs =/= recovered.

Personally no OTC supplement will decrease recovery time enough for it to matter for me. Even with the "that which we do not speak" overtraining a muscle group and not allowing enough recovery time is still possible. As you must also remember the connecting tendons do not grow at the same rate as muscles, only one thing will help them grow faster. It is quite possible to have muscles outgrow the ability of the tendon to hold it (If that makes sense in a much more simplified manner).

For sake of discussion, are you grouping connective tissue recovery with "muscle recovery"?

[nebraskaheat]

For sake of discussion, are you grouping connective tissue recovery with "muscle recovery"?

I think he's just saying (he put it better than I did) that eliminating soreness is not "muscle recovery"... As it pertains to your training anyways.

"Muscle recovery" in the way many supp products advertise, implies allowing you to rest less - train more.. When really all they are providing is less soreness the day after you train. Beneficial for sure, but not the same.

[Nom Z]

I think he's just saying (he put it better than I did) that eliminating soreness is not "muscle recovery"... As it pertains to your training anyways.

"Muscle recovery" in the way many supp products advertise, implies allowing you to rest less - train more.. When really all they are providing is less soreness the day after you train. Beneficial for sure, but not the same.

What do you think causes DOMS? Why wouldn't a reduction in DOMS be beneficial?

[Hawks58]

For sake of discussion, are you grouping connective tissue recovery with "muscle recovery"?

I am saying two things:

1.) Less DOMs does not equate muscle recovery.

2.) It is possible for skeletal muscle to out grow connective tissues. Using certain substances. (Can expand more on this one via pms...don't want dat dere ban hammer)

Not trying to be rude, just pointing that out. While I like Cit Mal, I think pushing it as helping muscle recovery isn't exactly correct.

[Nom Z]

I am saying two things:

1.) Less DOMs does not equate muscle recovery.

2.) It is possible for skeletal muscle to out grow connective tissues. Using certain substances. (Can expand more on this one via pms...don't want dat dere ban hammer)

Not trying to be rude, just pointing that out. While I like Cit Mal, I think pushing it as helping muscle recovery isn't exactly correct.

Not disagreeing, just seems to be me multiple topics being discussed as one arguement.

Not coimg across as rude, no worries.

What are your thoughts on the mechanism(s) for DOMS?

[nebraskaheat]

What do you think causes DOMS? Why wouldn't a reduction in DOMS be beneficial?

Would lack of soreness be a good thing? Of course. Is lack of soreness going to mean you're able to get back and rework those muscles sooner? No. So what benefits are you gaining from all the "muscle recovery" claims?

I like Cit mal and use it (SNS Cit Mal too).. It's awesome for helping me go to work the morning after a leg day not walking around stiff and sore.. But it isn't going to help me get another leg day in any sooner..

[BearLovesLuna]

Citrulline malate, at a dose of ~8g preworkout, has been shown to decrease delayed onset muscle soreness [DOMS], which I feel is a very functional real world recovery marker, in weight trained individuals by 40% in the 24-48 hour period following a workout as compared to a placebo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386132

SNS Citrulline Malate comes in 300g containers for about ~$20, a great and highly cost effective recovery supplement.

Heyyyy... straight from someone tied to SNS?
GOTTA be the truth.

But seriously- I always gauge my "recovery" as not being "complete" when I can still feel pain, soreness, or even weak fatigue in muscle groups. That being said, I can make the pain go away with 'something', but that does not mean it has "recovered". So - no idea if this crud he is talking about works or not.

I say, post workout, trust a "natty" state...

[Hawks58]

Not disagreeing, just seems to be me multiple topics being discussed as one arguement.

No problem. Probably was, I was skyping and typing...never good.

What are your thoughts on the mechanism(s) for DOMS?

Personally I used to buy the lactic acid theory as that is what I was always told in high school from coaches. As I got a little older, and learned how to research for myself, I learned that really even experts aren't 100% sure what causes it. I personally buy the idea that the body trying to recover from the microtears and the inflammation that follows causes the DOMs.