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  1. #31
    No Bull**** Bodybuilding greekmanman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    Why would anyone take a multivitamin with over 100% of the RDA on their basic vitamins and minerals? Well other than a failure to understand nutritional science... but that aside what would be the possible logic chain here?
    wut.

    Originally Posted by deadpool9 View Post
    Well for one, the FDA sets the RDA on a lot of things. And we all know they are full of crap when it comes to certain things. Look at the current RDA for Vit D, which is 400IU. A lot of research has shown that it can be beneficial to take up to 5000IU. Also, a lot of the RDAs are based off very old research.

    As far as toxicity, I think you would have to intentionally overdose on vitamins to get to those levels. Vitamin C's RDA is only 90mg. However, toxicity levels are indicated to be upward of 10g. Iron would probably be the easiest thing to OD on, but most quality multi-Vs are Iron free.
    this

    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    Yeah the RDA (which is now called RDI) is very low, just enough vitamins to prevent you from getting disease and it's based on sedentary individuals.

    Here is how I look at multivitamins - they are nutritional insurance. Most people (me included) don't eat nearly enough variety and volume of foods that contain all your vitamins and minerals. Then you have to take into account stress from daily life, work and on top of that hard training and cardio, athletes/bodybuilders have more needs than sedentary people. A multi makes sure you get a dose of a variety of vitamins and minerals that may be missing from your diet, it fills in the gaps.
    this

    If you know how the RDIs are established...then yea, you wouldn't think it strange to consume values over 100%
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  2. #32
    1100 total wuwu joelash302's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    If you look at that site ^^^ you'll see the majority of stuff on it is articles on training, nutrition, lifestyle, motivation, not in your face product stuff. You actually have to search around to find product info. Our site is more about the lifestyle of bodybuilding/motivation than anything else.
    I had to "search around" for about a quarter second, by clicking on "packs." There's even a forum section for it and it has the second most threads behind training, almost double that of diet. You can go on about this all you want, and to your credit your page is nowhere in the vicinity of the likes of T-Nation (whose motto has become "Yea but can we sell something?"), but come the fck on with acting like your company is pushing your vitamin supplements as only icing on the cake. You guys pull the same crap as everyone else, pretend that it's virtually impossible to attain a balanced diet (OMGz work / life balance is soooo hard when I spend 4 hours/day at the gym, I don't have time to buy an apple AND A BANANA!!!!) and fill a void that only questioningly exists for most of us.
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  3. #33
    Banned JasonDB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greekmanman View Post
    wut.

    this

    this

    If you know how the RDIs are established...then yea, you wouldn't think it strange to consume values over 100%
    My point was rather that RDIs are your minimums and for many vitamins and minerals (not sure why people are bringing protein into a talk on multi-vitamins) there is no health benefit to going much above this, and there are only a few in which there are benefits (again D3), and just as many that can be dangerous if one were to chronically overdose.

    It isn't that difficult to get well above the minimums and keep most, if not all, vitamins and minerals in the desirable range, and needing a multi that contains 200-300%+ of the RDI on most of them isn't beneficial, is a waste of money and in some cases potentially dangerous. It just isn't that difficult to get one's micro needs in a varied & balanced diet. I could literally consume 60-70% of my daily calories from pizza (with varied toppings including veggies) and still hit 2-3x the RDI on every vitamin a mineral without a multi.

    Now I still take my D3 at 5,000 UI a day.... but vitamin D is actually a hormone and that gets me all excited.


    ^^ Vit D3
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  4. #34
    Nutrabio naturalguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joelash302 View Post
    I had to "search around" for about a quarter second, by clicking on "packs." There's even a forum section for it and it has the second most threads behind training, almost double that of diet. You can go on about this all you want, and to your credit your page is nowhere in the vicinity of the likes of T-Nation (whose motto has become "Yea but can we sell something?"), but come the fck on with acting like your company is pushing your vitamin supplements as only icing on the cake. You guys pull the same crap as everyone else, pretend that it's virtually impossible to attain a balanced diet (OMGz work / life balance is soooo hard when I spend 4 hours/day at the gym, I don't have time to buy an apple AND A BANANA!!!!) and fill a void that only questioningly exists for most of us.
    You had to click on the "Packs" section to find product info, it's not in your face, go check out other companies websites where you will be bombarded with product pics, info and claims right on the homepage. We have hundreds of articles on training, nutrition, lifestyle, motivation by our athletes, that makes up the majority of the site. As far as the FORVM goes, we get a lot of questions in the packs section which is normal but as you saw the "Training" section has the most threads.

    Sorry but I don't agree with you that we conduct ourselves like other companies, I don't think you've spent much time on our websites and/or with our athletes.

    Yes we are a supplement company and it's a business like any other however we are not in this for the short term buck. We have been around since 1977 doing things the right way.
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  5. #35
    Nutrabio naturalguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    My point was rather that RDIs are your minimums and for many vitamins and minerals (not sure why people are bringing protein into a talk on multi-vitamins) there is no health benefit to going much above this, and there are only a few in which there are benefits (again D3), and just as many that can be dangerous if one were to chronically overdose.
    To show that the RDI's don't apply to bodybuilders
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  6. #36
    Resident Binge Drinker DaBubzy's Avatar
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    I was pretty dam impressed when universal followed through with their promo and sent out a free pak/day along with a shirt. Got mine in about 4 days, it was like chritmas tyme all over again.


    As far as multis go, i've taken animal pak for a while and feel its just a backup. being in college my macros come from all sorts of places (brb poptarts were 10 boxes for 10 bucks the other day), so i take it as a back up. that plus creatine mono & fish oils is bout all I need (w/coffee)
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  7. #37
    No Bull**** Bodybuilding greekmanman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    My point was rather that RDIs are your minimums and for many vitamins and minerals (not sure why people are bringing protein into a talk on multi-vitamins) there is no health benefit to going much above this, and there are only a few in which there are benefits (again D3), and just as many that can be dangerous if one were to chronically overdose.

    It isn't that difficult to get well above the minimums and keep most, if not all, vitamins and minerals in the desirable range, and needing a multi that contains 200-300%+ of the RDI on most of them isn't beneficial, is a waste of money and in some cases potentially dangerous. It just isn't that difficult to get one's micro needs in a varied & balanced diet. I could literally consume 60-70% of my daily calories from pizza (with varied toppings including veggies) and still hit 2-3x the RDI on every vitamin a mineral without a multi.

    Now I still take my D3 at 5,000 UI a day.... but vitamin D is actually a hormone and that gets me all excited.


    ^^ Vit D3
    I agree
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  8. #38
    ♚ Elected V.P. - R/P ♚ sawoobley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    To show that the RDI's don't apply to bodybuilders
    For most vitamins and minerals they do, if I remember correctly.
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  9. #39
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    Break off half a multi, when on a cut
    When I'm bulking, I don't give a fuk

    Eat a variety of sources, to fit those micros
    Or take an animal pak, and be a purple piss psycho
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  10. #40
    Misc MD Crew Geoloop's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greekmanman View Post
    If you know how the RDIs are established...then yea, you wouldn't think it strange to consume values over 100%
    When seeing the animal pak nutritional info you can see some values go beyond 1000%, 5000% or even 9000%...
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  11. #41
    Banned JasonDB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Geoloop View Post
    When seeing the animal pak nutritional info you can see some values go beyond 1000%, 5000% or even 9000%...
    Over 9000?
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  12. #42
    Registered User midcoastking33's Avatar
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    Let's be real a majority of clean eating nazis at any given time are probably deficient in a multitude of micros. Iron and magnesium immediately come to mind

    As far as animal pak is concerned, I noticed that cyanocobalamin and magnesium oxide are used. That tells me all about the lack of quality of said product
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  13. #43
    Misc MD Crew Geoloop's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    Over 9000?
    well not over 9000, just 9000% exactly. According to the nutritional information in bb.com store

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/animalpak.html
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by Geoloop View Post
    well not over 9000, just 9000% exactly. According to the nutritional information in bb.com store

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/animalpak.html
    Looks like a great way to have glow-in-the-dark piss... but I am failing to see a single benefit this has over some cheap wal-mart multi for someone who decides they don't want to eat any vegetables.
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    Misc MD Crew Geoloop's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    Looks like a great way to have glow-in-the-dark piss... but I am failing to see a single benefit this has over some cheap wal-mart multi for someone who decides they don't want to eat any vegetables.
    comes in a shiny container and is called Animal Pak!
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  16. #46
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    well this thread kinda took a nose dive, I just already eat a balanced diet and want a nice multi to pop when i'm downing B&J like it's outta style (5 pints in one week this week... HEh... YeaHHhBUDDay)

    by no means did i want to bash universal in this thread though, gonna be rocking this animal shirt and break pr's no doubt... just don't want green piss
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  17. #47
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    Originally Posted by Geoloop View Post
    comes in a shiny container and is called Animal Pak!
    I just saw the price tag... too rich for my blood. LoL

    Originally Posted by King222 View Post
    well this thread kinda took a nose dive, I just already eat a balanced diet and want a nice multi to pop when i'm downing B&J like it's outta style (5 pints in one week this week... HEh... YeaHHhBUDDay)

    by no means did i want to bash universal in this thread though, gonna be rocking this animal shirt and break pr's no doubt... just don't want green piss
    Their shirts are pretty cool... I would wear one if they sent it to me.
    Last edited by JasonDB; 10-10-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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  18. #48
    No Bull**** Bodybuilding greekmanman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Geoloop View Post
    When seeing the animal pak nutritional info you can see some values go beyond 1000%, 5000% or even 9000%...
    well yea those b vitamins would just be pissed out
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    Originally Posted by greekmanman View Post
    well yea those b vitamins would just be pissed out
    Vitamin E (as D-Α, D-Β, D-Γ, D-Δ Tocopherols & Tocotrienols) 300IU 1000%

    that seems a lil excessive too...
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    Originally Posted by King222 View Post
    well this thread kinda took a nose dive
    This is nutmisc. OP questions are largely irrelevant. The tangents that come forth usually tease out some good stuff before descending into madness.
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    Originally Posted by Geoloop View Post
    When seeing the animal pak nutritional info you can see some values go beyond 1000%, 5000% or even 9000%...
    Orange Triad has 8333% Vit B12 (500mcg), 1500% Vitamin B6 (30mg), 1765% Riboflavin (30mg), and 833% Vit C (500mg, lol).
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  22. #52
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    I went the AA route and just take Kirkland Signature.
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    Just checked my micro intake from yesterday and loled at values, brb getting 1000%+ on lots of things and avg 500%. Not a single multivitamin was taken that day...
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    Originally Posted by Geoloop View Post
    Just checked my micro intake from yesterday and loled at values, brb getting 1000%+ on lots of things and avg 500%. Not a single multivitamin was taken that day...
    My vitamin C & K tend to be in the 1000+% range due to all my veggies and fruit.
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    My vitamin C & K tend to be in the 1000+% range due to all my veggies and fruit.
    The winner in my case is Vitamin B12 with 1599%
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    Originally Posted by sawoobley View Post
    For most vitamins and minerals they do, if I remember correctly.
    Most RDIs are based on 2,000 calorie diets. I don't know too many guys that hit 210 or more pounds on 2,000 calories.

    Then again people can exercise a little discretion and critical thinking. If two packs of Pak seems like too much just take one. I take one per day. The green pee isn't an issue, my digestion is better, and I have energy on tap. I'm sold on Pak.
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    Originally Posted by MikeNice81 View Post
    Most RDIs are based on 2,000 calorie diets. I don't know too many guys that hit 210 or more pounds on 2,000 calories.

    Then again people can exercise a little discretion and critical thinking. If two packs of Pak seems like too much just take one. I take one per day. The green pee isn't an issue, my digestion is better, and I have energy on tap. I'm sold on Pak.
    True. That is where common sense comes in.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post746113143

    Cliffs: Micronutrient supplementation beyond that which is suggested for the general population is not required for weight training but it is for extreme endurance training. "Vitamin and mineral supplements are not needed if adequate energy to maintain body weight is consumed from a variety of foods. However, athletes who restrict energy intake, use severe weight-loss practices, eliminate one or more food groups from their diet, or consume unbalanced diets with low micronutrient density may require supplements."
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    Originally Posted by PerpetualMotion View Post
    I went the AA route and just take Kirkland Signature.
    This. Except with Kroger brand since I don't have a Costco. I forget 1/3 of the time and no fks are given. I eat lots of dem veggies.
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  29. #59
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    The only time I get benefits from a multi is when I get one from the T.A.B (for oz phags)
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    Originally Posted by sawoobley View Post
    True. That is where common sense comes in.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post746113143

    Cliffs: Micronutrient supplementation beyond that which is suggested for the general population is not required for weight training but it is for extreme endurance training. "Vitamin and mineral supplements are not needed if adequate energy to maintain body weight is consumed from a variety of foods. However, athletes who restrict energy intake, use severe weight-loss practices, eliminate one or more food groups from their diet, or consume unbalanced diets with low micronutrient density may require supplements."
    Thanks for that link. It definitely gives me something to think about. I get in an apple or other whole fruit plus veggies every day. I'm not sure if it is enough. It is a start though.

    However, this kind of enforces Animal's position. Many serious body builders strongly limit their variety of foods when cutting in an attempt to cut carbs and aid in weight loss. Some do just as bad when bulking. They pile on limited foods in order to add in quick growth. They yo-yo diet several time a year. For people undertaking those practices something like Pak is a good idea. They aren't eating a wide enough variety of foods to get everything they need.

    For someone eating at maintenance it may not be necessary, if they are eating properly. However, how many days does the person get their full range of dietary needs met? Taking one Pak a day may be good for them. Taking it when they remember or on alternate days may be enough. I wouldn't advise cutting multi-vitamins out completely. A little insurance is not a bad thing. However, unless you are a hardcore body builder or on an extreme bulk, two a day seems excessive.

    I wouldn't toss out or sell the can though. I would still keep it around and take it.
    Last edited by MikeNice81; 10-11-2012 at 05:37 AM. Reason: To correct the horrible job of proof reading I did. No content changed to change the meaning.
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