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  1. #1561
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    I've been looking for ways to train my upper back in a FS context without bothering my shoulder/whatever (I'm not 100% sure which muscle I bothered, might have been something like the supraspinatus for all I know, lat seems likely though), and after a ton of experimenting/searching, I found the absolutely perfect one:

    10/25

    Seated snatch grip deadlift hold: 365x30s, 455x12s,12s,15s

    I think the hold position is a similar back angle to a tough front squat lean. An obvious goal here is something like 500lbs for 3x30s. Then I have the feeling that my torso can handle the "lean" of my goal single. I don't know if there's much more to a front squat rack like shoulder flexion strength or other upper-arm specific strength (one example is elevating shoulders into the bar, but I think this variation indirectly works that too, similar to a shrug).

    If I can round this out with good quad work then I can work around this "injury" in a better position than I started.
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  2. #1562
    Registered User HomeGymChains's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Best wishes for working around and rehabbing!
    At age 64, I've exceeded all my prior PRs. Not “over the hill” yet. :)

    My workout journal is here:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176385621
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  3. #1563
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    10/26
    Beltless low bar (5-5-3 tempo): 225 for 3x5

    Originally Posted by HomeGymChains View Post
    Best wishes for working around and rehabbing!
    Thank you! Wouldn't be training for me without some kind of injury to work around, so I feel a comfy kinda despair .
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  4. #1564
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    Technically things are kinda messy lately, but I feel fairly optimistic.

    I had an idea to compare my recent front squat speeds to high bar, and I found when I was doing the speeds I'm hitting on front squat I made 505x2 high bar. This reinforces my idea that my leg/hip strength is there I just need to clean up technique/trunk strength/confidence or whatever else.

    My knee is a bit bothered but doesn't seem super bad. I can do low bar fine but I'll stay away from front squats a bit longer.

    My shoulder/back is doing much better. I found an external rotation exercise the seems to help a lot.

    If my knee and shoulder keep tracking well I might try to front squat on Monday. I'll probably do more paused low bar tomorrow (Saturday) and rest Sunday.

    10/28
    Bent over row: 185x3, 225x5, 245x5, 265x5, 285x5, 295x5, 305x10

    I haven't done a BOR for ages, went better than I expected. Seal rows putting in work.

    Doing these with a focus on upper back positioning (for FS carry-over).
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  5. #1565
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    I think my back/shoulder is okay, so Monday front squats just depend on how my knee feels. If it's bad maybe I can play around with rack stuff, or just do the seated hold again to be safe.

    10/29
    Beltless low bar (3-3-2 tempo): 275 for 3x5
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  6. #1566
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    10/31/2022
    Front squat: 405x1, 435x1, 455x1 (0.32m/s)
    Front rack hold: 455x20s, 475x20s, 495x20s, 545x10s,12s,9s

    It looks like back in the day I was doing 3x30s with 585-595 and I PR'd with 660x18s. Adds some credence to the theory that my leg strength is there but trunk strength is lacking.

    Also kind of conceptually neat: lately I'm having posture issues around 455lbs. 545 is ~120% of 455. So if I want to hit 475 soon, I can aim for something like 575x20s, and later on 605x20s for the 500. (Even better if I can hit 3x30s at whatever weights.)

    Probably it won't actually work out that neatly, but it seems like a decent kind of framework to give me some directions/goals.
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  7. #1567
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    CharlesSwann is offline
    11/03
    A bunch of front squat and heavy rack holds, mostly trying stuff out. Legs were shot. I tried high bar and even a 70% single was grindy.
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  8. #1568
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    Surprisingly legs are still completely shot. Knee is still pretty bothered too. Even first rep of 405 (which is around 70% intensity) was a grinder.

    I've still been cleaning up my front squat form, and I think it's going well, but I can't actually tell if it's good stuff until I'm actually reasonably recovered and trying 90%+. Sometimes stuff feels good but falls apart under load. Fingers crossed anyway.

    I did a couple of "light" HB doubles (that felt heavy anyway) for active recovery.

    11/07
    Beltless highbar: 405 for 3x2
    Front rack hold: 500x30s, 545x30s, 575x7s,6s,5s, 500x30s, 555x30s, 575x30s

    New rack form seems much, much stronger. Went from 545x12s => 575x30s. Just need to fight blacking out and breathe well on the top end stuff. Had some trouble with 575 this time and reset down and made it the second time around. The last set was brutal, my absolute limit for now.

    In terms of not blacking out, I think there's some general strength that'll come up and help if I keep practicing these.
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  9. #1569
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    Time to get serious about this knee thing. Loading partials. Aiming for increased ROM over time, first, but once I establish a range for the day I'm pushing for weight. I'd like 9+ total reps over 70%, but 70% is hard to gauge for partials. Anyway..

    11/07
    Tempo LB to pins - 2nd hole down
    - 315x1, 365x1, 405x3, 425x3, 435x3

    11/09
    Tempo low-bar to pins - 6th hole down
    - 315x1,1, 365x1, 405x2,1-slow negative,1-slow negative

    Hamstring/hip bothered me, called it early and did a few very slow negatives for more knee loading

    11/11
    Front squat to pins - 2nd hole up
    - 405x3, 455x3, 475x3, 500x5, 525x5

    Last set was very tough. Good point to progress from, though I'd prefer to go deeper instead

    Obviously there's no translating partials to a full ROM squat, but I wonder how much I should hope for here to feel confident for a 500x1 front squat. At some level, just reversing direction and maintaining elbows with 500+ is a good sign even for partials... on the other hand obviously 500x1 from pins would never get me 500x1 ATG. How much margin? Anyway, doesn't matter, I'll try to get as strong as I can either way.
    Last edited by CharlesSwann; 11-11-2022 at 05:37 PM.
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  10. #1570
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    11/13
    Tempo LB 5th hole down
    - 405x3, 425x3, 455x3
    GM 3rd hole down
    - 135x5, 225x3, 315x3, 405x5
    Barbell step up @ 27cm
    - 45x10, 135x10, 225x10,10,12, 245x15
    Ad-hoc cable hamstring curls:
    - 10x20,20, 20x15

    11/16
    Front squat to pins 0th hole
    - 405x3, 455x3, 500x3
    Split stance SLDL
    - 225x5,5,8,8
    Goblet squat
    - 45 for 5x10
    Ad-hoc cable hamstring curls:
    - 25 for 3x12
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  11. #1571
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    CharlesSwann is offline
    Few things...

    Think I figured out my knee is some kind of tightness/trigger point around the medial quad. Was able to squat today without pain by rolling it hard.

    Also from the low bar work my hip is acting up again. This is the same classic hip issue that puts me out of action 3-12 months and just ruins me. It's not super bad right now and hopefully I can avoid it by cutting low bar and managing it for now. Hopefully. If not I'm totally screwed.

    Anyway:

    11/19
    High bar: 405 for 3x3 -- 64% of best speed
    Split stance SLDL: 135x5, 185 for 3x10
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  12. #1572
    Registered User HomeGymChains's Avatar
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    Best wishes for getting through the hip issues.
    At age 64, I've exceeded all my prior PRs. Not “over the hill” yet. :)

    My workout journal is here:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176385621
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  13. #1573
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    I've been trying to squat (light/rehab) about every other day. Overall:

    - strength is still mysteriously extremely low, like 80% of my recent max or even less

    - knee is like 90%, I think I solved just need to keep at it + some time

    - hip is kinda bad but not terrible... when I'm screwed I can't even body weight squat or walk without pain... for now it seems like it's load sensitive (like I don't feel body weight, get a hint at 225, and feel a pain at 405)... I'm still fairly optimistic at weathering this without serious issues

    In terms of squatting I've tried like tempo singles at borderline weights (trying to control just below the point of pain) and also like fast smooth volume at very light weights (like 3x12 at 135 today) and the light stuff seems best to me

    I'd also like to keep doing split stance SLDLs and front rack holds/partials work, but I just felt really tired and weak today, both upper back and core, so I'll rest for now and add it when it seems appropriate.

    Originally Posted by HomeGymChains View Post
    Best wishes for getting through the hip issues.
    Thank you!
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  14. #1574
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    11/25
    More experimental rehab squatting... seems elevating heels helps. e.g.:
    High bar (looking down + initiate hips): 45x10, 95x10, 135x10, 185x8
    Front rack hold: 405, 495, 545, 565, 585, 605x4s,6s,4s,5s,5s,4s,4s -- fighting blacking out rather than postural strength, though partial theory is core fatigue contributes to blacking out

    edit: seems like goblet is great (best feeling squat so far) but I can't load it much without my arms getting tired (lol)... I tried landmine squats and it wasn't the same effect somehow

    edit: I also tonight I accidentally figured out the kind of squat movement that bothers me.. if I do like the last half of a kang squat (basically bottom of ATG into good morning) then it feels fine, which is basically just knee extension, but if I try to squat upright w/ hips & knees extending together it twinges. The problem is it's awkward as hell to load kang squats but I'll have to think how I can use this info in my home gym.
    Last edited by CharlesSwann; 11-25-2022 at 03:54 PM.
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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  15. #1575
    Registered User CharlesSwann's Avatar
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    11/27
    Front squat unrack/partials: 605x3,5
    Kang squat: 225x5, 245x5,5, 265 for 3x5

    Strong rack position work (I have a new cue related to setting my head back that keeps me from blacking out as much), and I managed to load hip decently via kang (went better with load than I expected).
    PL PRs: 605x2 SQ / 385x1 BN / 660x2 DL @ ~225lbs body weight
    Other PRs: 465x1 FS / 250x1 OHP
    Grip PRs: CoC #3 parallel choke, 105x1 wrist wrench, 67.5x1 pinch, Gold Hexabastard
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