Whenever a weightlifter demonstrates great strength, he is an exception

[SquinkysGhost]

Here we have a superheavyweight Russian weightlifter toying with a 360 kg in the deadlift. You have never heard of him. He will probably never qualify to the Olympics. He has a modest 230 kg clean and jerk. And has a near 400 kg pull, and he is a nobody. Could probably outpull most of the strongmen. Wrap your head around that one, and start to pour down the waves of excuses why this guy happens to be this strong.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbD3XNPHlzw **** embedding, click the ****ing link please. Pull happens at 1:10.

[BTBAM]

Holy fuk. That was the most casual looking 800 lb deadlift I have ever seen in my life!!!

[jb4476]

Here we have a superheavyweight Russian weightlifter toying with a 360 kg in the deadlift. You have never heard of him. He will probably never qualify to the Olympics. He has a modest 230 kg clean and jerk. And has a near 400 kg pull, and he is a nobody. Could probably outpull most of the strongmen. Wrap your head around that one, and start to pour down the waves of excuses why this guy happens to be this strong.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbD3XNPHlzw **** embedding, click the ****ing link please. Pull happens at 1:10.

That's ridiculous. With that kind of pull power he should be able to power clean 230 easily, let alone full. Do you know what he front squats?

[SquinkysGhost]

Do you know what he front squats?

Unfortunately I don't.

[EasternHammer]

I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. Deadlifting ability has literally zero to do with the snatch/clean.

[runtocatch]

I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. Deadlifting ability has literally zero to do with the snatch/clean.

Huh?

[EasternHammer]

Huh?

What's the confusion?

[jb4476]

What's the confusion?

What he did in the video didn't mechanically resemble a deadlift. It was more like a clean pull, it had the same starting position as a clean would, much more mechanically difficult than a PLing deadlift. The pull in that video would have significant carryover to a clean, technique provided.

[EasternHammer]

We'll have to disagree then, it did not look similar to a clean to me. Anyways, my point was twofold:

1. Lifting very large weights in the deadlift makes a lifter slow in the snatch/clean. Plus it takes away time and energy that could be spent y'know, doing more snatches and cleans.

2. The mechanics of a deadlift pull and the olympic lifts are not alike. Just because they both involve pulling from the floor doesn't mean there is carryover from one to the other. In fact, I would say it's just the opposite, particularly as one becomes more advanced.

[ledinred2]

1. Lifting very large weights in the deadlift makes a lifter slow in the snatch/clean.

I'm not a member of the Rippetoe "oly lifters need to be deadlifting more" crowd, but this is BS.

[jb4476]

Check the low starting position of the hips. That was clearly a clean pull.

We'll have to disagree then, it did not look similar to a clean to me.

1. Lifting very large weights in the deadlift makes a lifter slow in the snatch/clean. Plus it takes away time and energy that could be spent y'know, doing more snatches and cleans

Maybe someone should tell the Chinese that lots of heavy pulling from the floor slows lifters down and is detrimental to the snatch and the clean. Maybe then they'll start winning some medals.

[ledinred2]

Check the low starting position of the hips. That was clearly a clean pull.

He also stays out over the bar, much more so than one would in a conventional deadlift.

[ChrisJones999]

If he didn't have that music playing in the back ground, there would be no way he would have made that lift.

[SquinkysGhost]

Ok so now we already have:

-No correlation between the lifts what so ever. He just likes to deadlift.
-His deadlift is the reason why he isn't better in weightlifting.

Thank you, that is brilliant. Anything else?

[matjusm]

1. Lifting very large weights in the deadlift makes a lifter slow in the snatch/clean. Plus it takes away time and energy that could be spent y'know, doing more snatches and cleans.

2. The mechanics of a deadlift pull and the olympic lifts are not alike. Just because they both involve pulling from the floor doesn't mean there is carryover from one to the other. In fact, I would say it's just the opposite, particularly as one becomes more advanced.

No, just no. Yes the deadlift and the clean have somewhat different mechanics but they aren't that different because they both work more or less the same muscles.
Example 1:
This guy is a powerlifter, he does not train for the Olympic lifts. But just for the heck of it he tried to do a clean and this is what came out:

His technique is.....well there is no technique but he has tons of pulling strength so thats why he's able to get that weight up. If he deadlifted less, he'd certainly be cleaning less.

Example 2:
There is a strongman who trains at my gym (sorry, no videos) and he does both cleans and snatches as well as heavy deadlifts, including from a deficit and off blocks and he's pulling pretty impressive numbers.
His Olympic technique isn't quite as bad as the guy in the above video but I've seen him power clean 150kg and power snatch 115kg with relatively inefficient technique.

Rippetoe might not be the greatest Olympic coach out there but he has got a point when he says that if you get your raw strength up, you will also increase your clean and snatch.

[EasternHammer]

No, just no. Yes the deadlift and the clean have somewhat different mechanics but they aren't that different because they both work more or less the same muscles.
Example 1:
This guy is a powerlifter, he does not train for the Olympic lifts. But just for the heck of it he tried to do a clean and this is what came out:

His technique is.....well there is no technique but he has tons of pulling strength so thats why he's able to get that weight up. If he deadlifted less, he'd certainly be cleaning less.

Example 2:
There is a strongman who trains at my gym (sorry, no videos) and he does both cleans and snatches as well as heavy deadlifts, including from a deficit and off blocks and he's pulling pretty impressive numbers.
His Olympic technique isn't quite as bad as the guy in the above video but I've seen him power clean 150kg and power snatch 115kg with relatively inefficient technique.

Rippetoe might not be the greatest Olympic coach out there but he has got a point when he says that if you get your raw strength up, you will also increase your clean and snatch.

No one would ever disagree that simply getting stronger is the best way to lift more, but the person in question is already an elite lifter. And yes, I think that doing many slow pulls has less and less benefit as a lifter progresses. If it's still working for people doing 115/150 that's great; that's not surprising. But this lifter in the video is doing 230 C+J. Pulling 170% of his clean from the floor is not productive.

[SquinkysGhost]

I have to point out to you guys that the pulling strength is needed primarily in the snatch (where the pull is often the limiting factor), not in the clean.

[EasternHammer]

Check the low starting position of the hips. That was clearly a clean pull.





Maybe someone should tell the Chinese that lots of heavy pulling from the floor slows lifters down and is detrimental to the snatch and the clean. Maybe then they'll start winning some medals.

What the Chinese are doing works pretty well, so I won't comment on that. However, I do think a lack of speed off the floor is one of the reasons they so far have produced very few lifters over 77kg. There's an inverse relationship between bodymass and speed under the bar; that is, heavier men take more time once the bar has reached maximal height to reach the receiving position. Heavyweights, particularly supers, require more speed off the floor to stand a chance of racking the bar in a decent position. The emphasis on slow pulls is obviously not hurting the lightweights in China, but very few heavies coming out of there...could be a correlation.

[ledinred2]

You definitely see a lot of the Chinese lifters taking their time off the floor, but this isn't because they do heavy pulls. Pulling heavy weights off the floor does not make you slow, unless you are deliberately trying to pull weights slowly. Correlation, maybe. Causation, no.

[EasternHammer]

You definitely see a lot of the Chinese lifters taking their time off the floor, but this isn't because they do heavy pulls. Pulling heavy weights off the floor does not make you slow, unless you are deliberately trying to pull weights slowly. Correlation, maybe. Causation, no.

It's hard to say what causes what. The anecdotal evidence I've been told from lifters who have trained in China suggests that the Chinese coaching does emphasize a deliberate and slower first pull, to set up a very powerful second pull. Thus the heavy deads from the floor. My personal opinion is that 1) This is not a technique that works for heavyweight lifters and 2) The Chinese lightweights would probably be just as successful if they did no pulls.

[scarboro]

No, just no. Yes the deadlift and the clean have somewhat different mechanics but they aren't that different because they both work more or less the same muscles.
Example 1:
This guy is a powerlifter, he does not train for the Olympic lifts. But just for the heck of it he tried to do a clean and this is what came out:

His technique is.....well there is no technique but he has tons of pulling strength so thats why he's able to get that weight up. If he deadlifted less, he'd certainly be cleaning less.

Example 2:
There is a strongman who trains at my gym (sorry, no videos) and he does both cleans and snatches as well as heavy deadlifts, including from a deficit and off blocks and he's pulling pretty impressive numbers.
His Olympic technique isn't quite as bad as the guy in the above video but I've seen him power clean 150kg and power snatch 115kg with relatively inefficient technique.

Rippetoe might not be the greatest Olympic coach out there but he has got a point when he says that if you get your raw strength up, you will also increase your clean and snatch.

That lifter has a 360kg suited deadlift. A 145 powerclean with bad form isn't any indication of huge correlation.

Ontopic I think in the west we underestimate the 'powerlifting' strength of top level weightlifters simply because they haven't shown it. Especially the 105/105+.

[DaTruth1]

I have to point out to you guys that the pulling strength is needed primarily in the snatch (where the pull is often the limiting factor), not in the clean.

LOL what? Snatch is about getting under fast... Also, since when is putting 200+kg over your head not a "demonstrat[ion] of great strength"??

[feces99]

guarantee quite a few lifters that we know of can pull that heavy. what we see on youtube is only the tiniest glimpse of what goes on.

[matjusm]

guarantee quite a few lifters that we know of can pull that heavy. what we see on youtube is only the tiniest glimpse of what goes on.

Probably most will be able to deadlift at least 40-50% above their best clean. If you don't have strength off the floor, there's no way you're going to snatch or clean a weight.

[PAINBRAH]

1. Lifting very large weights in the deadlift makes a lifter slow in the snatch/clean. Plus it takes away time and energy that could be spent y'know, doing more snatches and cleans.

Yes, because this makes so much sense. Thank you for your input.

[GoJu]

We'll have to disagree then, it did not look similar to a clean to me. Anyways, my point was twofold:

1. Lifting very large weights in the deadlift makes a lifter slow in the snatch/clean. Plus it takes away time and energy that could be spent y'know, doing more snatches and cleans.

2. The mechanics of a deadlift pull and the olympic lifts are not alike. Just because they both involve pulling from the floor doesn't mean there is carryover from one to the other. In fact, I would say it's just the opposite, particularly as one becomes more advanced.

Someone drank the Bud Charninga koolaid.

[ftwrestler]

dude is only 26 im sure we will see him in the next 4 years

[SquinkysGhost]

LOL what? Snatch is about getting under fast... Also, since when is putting 200+kg over your head not a "demonstrat[ion] of great strength"??

And clean isn't?

Ever since nerds holding their physics books have had a wierd interest toward muscle men lifting weights. You can't even say "Wow, that's strong" about a clean and jerk anymore without some dweeb chiming in like this: "Oh but dear sir, it's not strong per se, it's powerful derpa derp. There's a difference deeeerp". :/

[EasternHammer]

Someone drank the Bud Charninga koolaid.

Kool-aid jokes aside, the point remains. I just don't think this type of very heavy pulling is necessary to snatch or clean more. There is very little benefit to deadlifting 120 kg more than your best clean. The carryover , in my view, is quite negligible.

[Engineer_Guy]

Rippetoe might not be the greatest Olympic coach out there but he has got a point when he says that if you get your raw strength up, you will also increase your clean and snatch.

Isn't that common sense?