My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[Dre4]

I'd switch immediately, because when you realize it's too much, you won't be able to recover just by starting to reduce volume.

Stick to the regular version until you stall

Hmm kinda leaning towards emp's suggestion but still not sure. Someone break the tie?

[EmperorRyker]

Hmm kinda leaning towards emp's suggestion but still not sure. Someone break the tie?

Just to make it clear, my recommendation is based on the following series of articles:
- http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ss-part-1.html
- http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ss-part-2.html

[BuffMaltese]

Is there any basis on changing the rep scheme every once in a while for exercises I keep getting stuck on? I hate constantly resetting bench because that means I keep lifting a weight that is usually too light for me until I work my way up to attempt the weight I'm having trouble with. The resets have been working for me on other exercises but not really with bench because it feels like I'm resetting to often and I'm not completing the sets when I get back to it like I was before.

I am cutting now but I really want to focus on gaining strength during this period.

I feel that possibly my muscle endurance is holding me back on bench and deadlift. Its not that the weight feels too heavy, I just have trouble completing the 5 reps. I'm at 260x4 for DL and 180x4 for bench. Would working at a higher rep range be beneficial to get past these plateaus? Or perhaps going heavier and working at a lower rep range.

DL is also being held back because I do have flexibility issues still that I'm working on daily and I'm trying not to hurt myself.

[EmperorRyker]

I am cutting now but I really want to focus on gaining strength during this period.

Well, you can't. Strength gains during a cut are an exception, not the rule. As long as you maintain strength, you're golden. Do the best you can and don't go into it thinking you're an exception. If you were, I think during your bulk your gains would be such that you wouldn't be cutting right now.

[seanfl02]

Hmm kinda leaning towards emp's suggestion but still not sure. Someone break the tie?

I have been running a deficit now for just over a month. There is a giant difference between 3x5 and 5x5.

[BuffMaltese]

Well, you can't. Strength gains during a cut are an exception, not the rule. As long as you maintain strength, you're golden. Do the best you can and don't go into it thinking you're an exception. If you were, I think during your bulk your gains would be such that you wouldn't be cutting right now.

Perhaps...it's true that I was unable to increase the weight 5 lbs every workout very well while attempting a bulk but I don't think I ever got my nutrition quite right...I went from 180-183 after a couple months and then just sat around 180 for a month. I definitely gained a decent amount of strength and a little bit of muscle (mostly noticeable in my arms)

I'm only on my 4th month of lifting weights ever.

Isn't it normal to still be able to gain strength even on a cut when you are as new to lifting as I am?

[Kenshinhimora]

Perhaps...it's true that I was unable to increase the weight 5 lbs every workout very well while attempting a bulk but I don't think I ever got my nutrition quite right...I went from 180-183 after a couple months and then just sat around 180 for a month. I definitely gained a decent amount of strength and a little bit of muscle (mostly noticeable in my arms)

I'm only on my 4th month of lifting weights ever.

Isn't it normal to still be able to gain strength even on a cut when you are as new to lifting as I am?

You can definitely gain strength on a cut, just realize that strength gains =\= muscle gains. You're just becoming more efficient and your CNS is getting better at enduring the weight.

[kenny878]

does anyone ITT know what routine Jason recommends for an intermediate lifter? like someone with 2-4 years lifting experience?

[misterspock]

does anyone ITT know what routine Jason recommends for an intermediate lifter? like someone with 2-4 years lifting experience?

He has a video on his youtube channel titled 'Routine Recommendations For Intermediates'.

[EmperorRyker]

Perhaps...it's true that I was unable to increase the weight 5 lbs every workout very well while attempting a bulk but I don't think I ever got my nutrition quite right...I went from 180-183 after a couple months and then just sat around 180 for a month. I definitely gained a decent amount of strength and a little bit of muscle (mostly noticeable in my arms)

I'm only on my 4th month of lifting weights ever.

Isn't it normal to still be able to gain strength even on a cut when you are as new to lifting as I am?

It really depends on the person. Some people do gain strength, others don't. You said you already gained some strength, so maybe you've topped out the neural adaptation. I mean, some people are going to tell you should be able to no matter what in these beginning stages, but that's because that was perhaps their experience and they just generalize it to everyone. A friend of mine is really strong now, but he had the same problem, trying to gain strength while not eating in a surplus. He said even maintenance didn't cut it for him, and that he had to eat at a significant surplus (500 kcal at least) to start seeing gains, and that prior to that he was pretty much spinning his wheels for a year or so.

You have a lot of examples where people gain strength while cutting, and, as I said, you should be prepared to give it your all. But don't be disappointed if you "only" maintain strength. You also said your nutrition wasn't quite right. What has changed now? If you weren't able to progress as fast or at all on some lifts on maintenance calories, why would you expect to do so while cutting? I don't know, welcome gains, but realize not having them does not mean you're doing things wrong.

[Jozh22]

For my biceps are one of my weakest muscles.
I cant seem to gain much strength in them.

Thinking of doing this JUST for my incline curls as im having trouble upping the weight.
Workout A 3x8 same weight
next Workout A 3x9 same weight
next Workout A 3x10 same weight
next Workout A 3x11 same weight
next Workout A 3x12 same weight
next Workout A 3x8 but up the weight
Repeat

[Gatorator]

my biggest fear is having an unbalanced physique, and now i'm showing signs of right developing better that than left, is it because i only use mixed grip in deads ( my left hand being underhand 100% of the time), or duo to bad form? (right doing all the work)

tried to lower the weight but i kept stalling in my lifts

any suggestion would be much appreciated.

I know i could just learn from trial and error, but still i would like some reassuring.

and one more question is 2.5lbs increase every workout is progress? or just 5lb ?, or is is it 5lb weekly workouts?

no answer!!, someone please answer, what should i do, i just looked at my back and the right side looks well developed, the left side looks noticeably smaller, and not just the back,all of my body, i will add pics tomorrow or today, please help, i have no one else to ask!

this program barley has any dumbbells workout, getting great gains on this routine but this problem is really stressing me out, i don't want to drop this routine and i don't know what to do to compensate for lagging left side.

[Nosepull]

For my biceps are one of my weakest muscles.
I cant seem to gain much strength in them.

Thinking of doing this JUST for my incline curls as im having trouble upping the weight.
Workout A 3x8 same weight
next Workout A 3x9 same weight
next Workout A 3x10 same weight
next Workout A 3x11 same weight
next Workout A 3x12 same weight
next Workout A 3x8 but up the weight
Repeat

that's a double progression and it's an option if you keep stalling at the same point. I'd give it a shot.

[BuffMaltese]

no answer!!, someone please answer, what should i do, i just looked at my back and the right side looks well developed, the left side looks noticeably smaller, and not just the back,all of my body, i will add pics tomorrow or today, please help, i have no one else to ask!

this program barley has any dumbbells workout, getting great gains on this routine but this problem is really stressing me out, i don't want to drop this routine and i don't know what to do to compensate for lagging left side.

Its very common. The answer usually given is to stick on a routine like this for about a year and don't concern yourself with unbalances until your a intermediate lifter. Apparently they usually work themselves out if not there is apparently some dumbbell work you can do to fix it.

My left arm is vascular and my right isn't, also my my left tricep is a little bigger than the right. I'm right handed and broke my left collar bone about two years ago that healed horribly and took a year to even do a few pushups. I guess the weaker side may have been getting a tougher workout trying to keep up with the stronger side and thats why it has better results. I let it bug me sometimes but I realize that no one notices and its mostly in my head.

[Mrpb]

Hmm kinda leaning towards emp's suggestion but still not sure. Someone break the tie?

Go with what you feel most drawn to.

[Mrpb]

I'm finally jumping on the program I should have started with. I'm currently fasting (8 hours I eat my daily calories, 16 hours I starve), hope this routine doesn't make me faint

Keep in mind that you can do IF with a pre workout meal too. As long as you keep you're eating window to 8 hours. See Leangains.com.

Personally, this is not the kind of workout I would like to do fasted. The 3x5 version for cutting would be alright to do fasted.

[Mrpb]

I switched from 5x5 to 3x5 2 weeks ago mainly because I didn't want to have to eat the caloric surplus necessary to keep 5x5 progression going because I'm going to the beach this coming week and didn't want to gain any fat and I wanted to keep putting weight on the bar because I'm going to be away from the gym for 2 weeks due to vacations starting in a few days. Here's a picture that I took earlier today. I can definitely put on some more muscle, but I have small wrists and a pretty lean frame, and I'd rather be lean than bulky. Hopefully I can put some more muscle on just about everywhere and keep from looking disproportionate or gaining much fat.

Thanks for the pics man. You do look strong. I would have expected more mass for someone with your lifts. Which kind of confirms my previous thoughts that this is still really a strength based routine. Although the fact that you probably bulked very minimally also played a part in it.

What is your bench and press?

[BuffMaltese]

For my biceps are one of my weakest muscles.
I cant seem to gain much strength in them.

Thinking of doing this JUST for my incline curls as im having trouble upping the weight.
Workout A 3x8 same weight
next Workout A 3x9 same weight
next Workout A 3x10 same weight
next Workout A 3x11 same weight
next Workout A 3x12 same weight
next Workout A 3x8 but up the weight
Repeat

Have you started doing curl-ups on Workout A yet? Once I started doing the curl-ups on A and the incline on B I got results pretty fast. For the inclines I used a double progression (adding a rep or 2 to the the sets before increasing the weight 5 lbs).

I actually ended up hurting my elbows from the inclines doing this because a) I started ignoring the resets on this exercise and b) I was going to failure (probably because it was the lightest weight of any of the exercises..IDK) so I had to quit doing them. I do weighted curl-ups for A and B now.

[BuffMaltese]

Keep in mind that you can do IF with a pre workout meal too. As long as you keep you're eating window to 8 hours. See Leangains.com.

Personally, this is not the kind of workout I would like to do fasted. The 3x5 version for cutting would be alright to do fasted.

Your right about doing the 3x5 version fasted, I do it and actually like it after only a couple weeks. He may be okay if he's doing a recomp or a bulk, I tried doing the full version at first on a cut but wasn't able to recover and lost strength on subsequent workouts.

[BuffMaltese]

You also said your nutrition wasn't quite right. What has changed now? If you weren't able to progress as fast or at all on some lifts on maintenance calories, why would you expect to do so while cutting? I don't know, welcome gains, but realize not having them does not mean you're doing things wrong.

I was basically on board with everything except for forcing myself to eat more when I started this program. I had developed very healthy eating habits and I was afraid to mess with them. Turns out I was eating probably at about maintenance on workout days and a surplus on off days looking back now. I was hoping I was going to be in the special group that would gain muscle and lose fat because I was new and have a high bodyfat %. After about three months, I looked better but I knew I didn't really lose any fat. I just decided I would be much happier with my appearance if I got my body fat % down to 12-15% and then started bulking. I also came to the conclusion it is a bad idea to bulk at the high bodyfat % I am at because once you add new fat cells you have them for life. I was just confused I thought I was skinnyfat for a while therefor I should bulk for a year then cut... I'm just a normal guy who has too much fat, it just happens to be all in my belly and love handles.

I'm happy cutting now. Another reason I figured I might as well cut now is because my flexibility level is not where it needs to be still. My form is off on squats and deadlifts and it hard to really go too heavy without the chance of injury. So the time I'm spending cutting is also being utilized to really get my flexibility where it needs to be.

[Litres]

I've been more conservative with my progression on DL's than squats- I had to fix rounding my lower back when I first started. I do break parallel on squats (if that's what you were thinking). I did workout B last night on this program, and my working set on DL's was 295, which I did with ease- I'm fairly confident I could have bumped that up to at least 325ish with no issues.

You could still reap some gains on this program then. You could run this program until you hit 5x5 225lbs/315lbs/405lbs bench/squat/deadlift

[kingkitty0892]

Hypertrophy happens in all rep ranges.

Not saying that you have to train in only the 8-12 range. Everyone needs a mix of all ranges. You will get SOME size in 5 rep range...but not optimal. Just as you will get some strength in the 8-12 range...but not optimal.

Get stronger in the 5 rep ranges and do more volume work in the 8-12 range. I personally train with BOTH ranges in the same workout.

For a beginner though I'd rather they get stronger first and worry about growth/size later...when they can handle heavier loads for more reps.

Agree completely man. Good work.

[tikfes]

For anyone that squats more than 140kg 5x5 please answer this, when i complete my 5x5 on squats then progress to the press or bench press i feel like all my energy has depleted, so i drank powerrade and i felt replenished, however i cannot keep spending 4$ each time i wanna go gym to buy powerrade lol, what should i do, i counted calories lately and i have between 2300-2500

[teishuuk]

For anyone that squats more than 140kg 5x5 please answer this, when i complete my 5x5 on squats then progress to the press or bench press i feel like all my energy has depleted, so i drank powerrade and i felt replenished, however i cannot keep spending 4$ each time i wanna go gym to buy powerrade lol, what should i do, i counted calories lately and i have between 2300-2500

I'd say eat more.. How tall are you? I'm eating around 2500cals and i'm only 5'7" and 35lbs lighter than you..

[tikfes]

183-185, but i only eat that much cause i dont eat any junk food, like mcdonalds or pizza or kfc, idk how to get any higher without eating bad foods

[Mrpb]

For anyone that squats more than 140kg 5x5 please answer this, when i complete my 5x5 on squats then progress to the press or bench press i feel like all my energy has depleted, so i drank powerrade and i felt replenished, however i cannot keep spending 4$ each time i wanna go gym to buy powerrade lol, what should i do, i counted calories lately and i have between 2300-2500

So you're on a caloric deficit, you're ignoring to do 3x5 while cutting, you feel depleted after squatting 5x5, and you feel replenished after ingesting carbs...

Do you still want my advice or have you solved the riddle on your own?

[Mrpb]

183-185, but i only eat that much cause i dont eat any junk food, like mcdonalds or pizza or kfc, idk how to get any higher without eating bad foods

Here's what happens if you eat only Mcdonalds for one month and lift heavy.



But ok, if you believe Mcdonalds and pizza are bad, you can also eat nuts, meat, a whole chicken, milk, peanutbutter etc.

[snova031]

You could still reap some gains on this program then. You could run this program until you hit 5x5 225lbs/315lbs/405lbs bench/squat/deadlift

Thanks, I'll keep at it

[MrSlippery]

I think it might be time for a new thread, with that excellent FAQ in the first or second post.

Pretty sure the post count caps at 10,000 so we are close to needing a new thread. Ideally whoever starts the new thread will keep everything Jason has plus add the FAQ people have made up.

[EmperorRyker]

I'm not sure whether this thread and routine are really worthy of a sticky, though.