My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[stuntmanhy]

They say the decline is better than the flat. Even Dorian Yates said it in his program.

Do his program then

[Phoenixfires]

I was wondering if rows are better than pullups because people seem to be divided about that issue and rows are used pretty heavily in this program (I'm a huge noob so I was just wondering).

[Litres]

I was wondering if rows are better than pullups because people seem to be divided about that issue and rows are used pretty heavily in this program (I'm a huge noob so I was just wondering).

Rows utilize more muscle fibers overall and therefore muscle gain would be greater. Do not even think of substituting them

[tazui1982]

Rows utilize more muscle fibers overall and therefore muscle gain would be greater. Do not even think of substituting them

Erm, I disagree with you pal, row is for size, back thickness and it's a compound exercise, whereas pull up is a great bodyweight exercise which directly work your lats, 2 different exercises, can't be substituted but if anyone really wanna add pull ups into the program let them add it

[tazui1982]

I was wondering if rows are better than pullups because people seem to be divided about that issue and rows are used pretty heavily in this program (I'm a huge noob so I was just wondering).

Not better, 2 different exercises, don't even compare them. Rows are really good back exercises which helps u add mass and strenght, pullup work your lats and upper back more, if you stick with JasonDB's program than do rows.

[PRico24]

just posted this on his video but maybe some one else can help..
"whats up jason i think im going to start this routine in a month right now im at 275lbx5 squat, 325 DL, and like 165 (weak triceps) can i benefit from this program and how long??
Also i know that you probably don't like a lot of adjustments to your program but i get bad tricep pain (tricep tear) from skulls and cgbp but not from dips can i replace them with dips on all days?
thanks"

[Phoenixfires]

Rows utilize more muscle fibers overall and therefore muscle gain would be greater. Do not even think of substituting them

Thanks for the response. So there's a million different kinds of rows, and I'm doing one where my back is nearly parallel to the ground and I'm pulling the bar along my thighs. It seems kinda easy though even though I'm using more weight (120 lb) than my bench (I have a weak 115 lb 5x5 bench, and my squat is 175 5x5 for comparison). I'm trying to use my lats, but It's kinda confusing which muscle groups are actually working, and I don't really feel it in my lats. Any suggestions?

[Winfamy]

Thanks for the response. So there's a million different kinds of rows, and I'm doing one where my back is nearly parallel to the ground and I'm pulling the bar along my thighs. It seems kinda easy though even though I'm using more weight (120 lb) than my bench (I have a weak 115 lb 5x5 bench, and my squat is 175 5x5 for comparison). I'm trying to use my lats, but It's kinda confusing which muscle groups are actually working, and I don't really feel it in my lats. Any suggestions?

The bar shouldn't be going along your thighs, it should go up and down (not at a ~30 degree angle as it would by following your thighs all the way) and touch your sternum, pretty much the reverse movement of the bench. You'll definitely use your lats a lot more this way.

[MrSlippery]

They say the decline is better than the flat. Even Dorian Yates said it in his program.

Wrong, this routine is laid out how it is for a reason. If you are going to do it stick with the exercises exactly how they are listed. Read back 15-20 pages you will see many people that have been running it for months with huge number gains. it works.

[MrSlippery]

Thanks for the response. So there's a million different kinds of rows, and I'm doing one where my back is nearly parallel to the ground and I'm pulling the bar along my thighs. It seems kinda easy though even though I'm using more weight (120 lb) than my bench (I have a weak 115 lb 5x5 bench, and my squat is 175 5x5 for comparison). I'm trying to use my lats, but It's kinda confusing which muscle groups are actually working, and I don't really feel it in my lats. Any suggestions?

As winfamy said you need to work on form, also what kind of grip are you using? I personally find a wider grip (much like bench press) works the lats much better than shoulder width.

[Broscientist88]

Guys ive been doing this routine for about 3 months and ive made great gains in my legs, not so much upper body, and im really not enjoying it too much. I realize it may be optimal but is there any upper lower/PPL split that i could do? i did lyles previously and liked it.. Thanks.

[SebastianMorar]

Guys ive been doing this routine for about 3 months and ive made great gains in my legs, not so much upper body, and im really not enjoying it too much. I realize it may be optimal but is there any upper lower/PPL split that i could do? i did lyles previously and liked it.. Thanks.

What is it that you don't like?

[Broscientist88]

What is it that you don't like?

Im not a big fan of the rep ranges, i like 6-8 generally feel better with those but thats not a big issue, its more spending 2+ hours in the gym isnt ideal for my schedule. More days with slightly shorter workouts would be ideal.

[BarneyBoom]

Hello. After on-off undisciplined lifting for about a year I started doing Stronglifts 5x5 three weeks ago along with the additional lifts included in this workout and I can already feel that having the structure and system of lifting properly is going to reap rewards.

I've left my gym because it's got no squat rack but I have a month to finish out. I can manage raising the bar for squats off the chest press bench, (which is quite high) but the lack of hyperextension frame / machine is a bigger problem.

I've tried the 'pullthroughs' but I'm having trouble, with too much weight it's pulling me off my feet into the frame, with not enough I'm just sliding up and down for 20 reps.

How do you feel about using the 'lower back' resistance machines? I'm aware that resistance machines are frowned upon but I was wondering with it being such an isolated exercise, that cables are already recommended for, would it be an exception in this case.

Similarly, I've reached full weight on the kneeling cable crunches so I was wondering if the abdominal crunch Resistance machines are a good alternative to the cables.

It's only for a month.

Thanks in advance.

Barney

[SebastianMorar]

Can anyone critique my form for squats and deadlifts?
I occasioanlly get abductors pain during squats, not sure why. I will go below paralell next time too.

[Charlie581]

Can anyone critique my form for squats and deadlifts?
I occasioanlly get abductors pain during squats, not sure why. I will go below paralell next time too.

Squat: Excessive forward leaning, and not necessarily sitting back either. Your basically doing a goodmorning out of the hole

Deadlift: Not too good either. No lockout at the top portion what-so-ever, and after about the second rep you back is rounding a bit more than it should be.

Squat form help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnV7vEi7Sz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao (Multiple parts to this series)

Deadlift form help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nRRlk6264I

[SebastianMorar]

Squat: Excessive forward leaning, and not necessarily sitting back either. Your basically doing a goodmorning out of the hole

Deadlift: Not too good either. No lockout at the top portion what-so-ever, and after about the second rep you back is rounding a bit more than it should be.

Squat form help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnV7vEi7Sz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao (Multiple parts to this series)

Deadlift form help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nRRlk6264I

Thanks. Squat part will hopefully be fixed next session, but about the deadlifts, the lockout part will be fixed easy but the back rounding is what annoys me. Is it my back that keeps rounding after second rep, or is it "only" my upper back? I think I need to do streches because, of all the times I've sat infront of the computer, I've messed it up.

[WhiskeyRitalin]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=153210311

My workout log for this program... if anyone wants a gander!

[iBeastMode207]

Erm, I disagree with you pal, row is for size, back thickness and it's a compound exercise, whereas pull up is a great bodyweight exercise which directly work your lats, 2 different exercises, can't be substituted but if anyone really wanna add pull ups into the program let them add it

Are you telling me barbell rows DON'T work your lats? Please don't make me neg you.

[iBeastMode207]

Can anyone critique my form for squats and deadlifts?
I occasioanlly get abductors pain during squats, not sure why. I will go below paralell next time too.

Squats- Focus on keeping chest up, it will help from the excessive leaning especially the third rep on you look like you're about to fall forward on the ascent.

Deadlifts, get your ass down lower to keep the lower back from rounding too much, it's mostly just your upper back that rounds but sitting back further will help. Like Charlie said you aren't locking out at the top, at the top of the motion you should be squeezing your shoulder blades together.

[iBeastMode207]

Guys ive been doing this routine for about 3 months and ive made great gains in my legs, not so much upper body, and im really not enjoying it too much. I realize it may be optimal but is there any upper lower/PPL split that i could do? i did lyles previously and liked it.. Thanks.

Just by looking at your physique I have to say no. PPL/upper lower are the normal progression after seeing full benefits of a full body....I don't really know what your situation is as far as upper body, are you progressing with the upper body movements?

If the time is an issue then cut the accessory movements...

[tazui1982]

Are you telling me barbell rows DON'T work your lats? Please don't make me neg you.

Lol no pls dun neg me I was saying pullup was working lat more and row is a better mass buider. Neg me tho if i'm wrong.

[Litres]

Thanks for the response. So there's a million different kinds of rows, and I'm doing one where my back is nearly parallel to the ground and I'm pulling the bar along my thighs. It seems kinda easy though even though I'm using more weight (120 lb) than my bench (I have a weak 115 lb 5x5 bench, and my squat is 175 5x5 for comparison). I'm trying to use my lats, but It's kinda confusing which muscle groups are actually working, and I don't really feel it in my lats. Any suggestions?

This program calls for a standard barbell row. Which means your torso is about 45 degrees. Jason suggest to pull the bar straight up and down to the upper abs or lower chest, not along the thighs. This allows you to use more weight. Also, make sure to go all the way down until your lats are stretched and shoulder blades are completely non retracted at the bottom before exploding up.

[tazui1982]

Can anyone critique my form for squats and deadlifts?
I occasioanlly get abductors pain during squats, not sure why. I will go below paralell next time too.

Pls dont sit down so fast on your descent, I did it a few times and my back hurted for like 3 days. Try to control your movement on the way down.
P.s: I'm watching Vikings atm and you dont look like giant to me tho (not srs).

[BuffMaltese]

First workout day after I started my cut did't sleep good and feeling congested (might be getting sick)....all added up to me feeling weak as **** today. Did my usual foam rolling and dynamic stretching before I went to the gym.

So I get to deadlifts. do 5x135, 5x185, 3x225, then I failed first the first time deadlifting at 1x260 (couldn't move the bar second rep). My dumb ass didn't feel like I got a workout so I dropped down to 245 to get my 5 reps in.
Do 1 rep..feels very heavy...second rep.. bam throw out my lower back. So pissed. Didn't even think I was going to be able to rack up the weights and was about to leave.

Few minutes later for some reason I started feeling a little better and actually completed the workout. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do deadlifts on Tues (going to test the waters and drop the weight about 15% if its feeling good)

Feel very discouraged right now, I've really been working hard on mobility/flexibility and form. This has been a pattern with exercising with me, I get really dedicated and then I get injured. I really thought I was doing things right this time. Hopefully this back strain is minor (sure felt just like previous ones I have had where I couldn't even stand up straight and even worse kept coming back every so often from doing things as simple as sprinting... thats my biggest fear right now that this is going to be a reoccurring problem.

[tazui1982]

First workout day after I started my cut did't sleep good and feeling congested (might be getting sick)....all added up to me feeling weak as **** today. Did my usual foam rolling and dynamic stretching before I went to the gym.

So I get to deadlifts. do 5x135, 5x185, 3x225, then I failed first the first time deadlifting at 1x260 (couldn't move the bar second rep). My dumb ass didn't feel like I got a workout so I dropped down to 245 to get my 5 reps in.
Do 1 rep..feels very heavy...second rep.. bam throw out my lower back. So pissed. Didn't even think I was going to be able to rack up the weights and was about to leave.

Few minutes later for some reason I started feeling a little better and actually completed the workout. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do deadlifts on Tues (going to test the waters and drop the weight about 15% if its feeling good)

Feel very discouraged right now, I've really been working hard on mobility/flexibility and form. This has been a pattern with exercising with me, I get really dedicated and then I get injured. I really thought I was doing things right this time. Hopefully this back strain is minor (sure felt just like previous ones I have had where I couldn't even stand up straight and even worse kept coming back every so often from doing things as simple as sprinting... thats my biggest fear right now that this is going to be a reoccurring problem.

Do you have a video of your deadlift usually soreness comes from rounding back, however you said u worked on forms and flexibility than it could be other thing, would be better if you had a video.

[BuffMaltese]

Do you have a video of your deadlift usually soreness comes from rounding back, however you said u worked on forms and flexibility than it could be other thing, would be better if you had a video.

I work on it almost daily (mobility and flexibility). Thing is I still can't do a proper squat either. I'm still using the box. I can't see the point in removing it if I can't do a nice deep balanced body squat even. If I squat without the box I just get cheap reps in.
Deadlift I can almost do perfect form. It's just the last few inches I can't reach the bar without rounding my lower back. I started to deadlift off of a raised platform (like a 45lb plate laying down) to compensate for my lack of reach but I removed them a few workouts ago because the bar was rolling funny when I lowered it. (the plates weren't flat)

So no, my form isn't right yet. It's just taking forever for me to get there on those two lifts. I just can't be going really heavy until I am mobile enough to do them right. Don't get me wrong my form is better than a lot of the **** I see at the gym but I know its not good enough. I just want to lift heavy but it is taking so much time to get the flexibility to do it right. Its very frustrating.

[Broskiez]

I'm not sure if it has been answered already but, can you do cardio on off days like say Tuesday and Thursday if you do weights on Monday, Wednesday and Friday?

[tazui1982]

I work on it almost daily (mobility and flexibility). Thing is I still can't do a proper squat either. I'm still using the box. I can't see the point in removing it if I can't do a nice deep balanced body squat even. If I squat without the box I just get cheap reps in.
Deadlift I can almost do perfect form. It's just the last few inches I can't reach the bar without rounding my lower back. I started to deadlift off of a raised platform (like a 45lb plate laying down) to compensate for my lack of reach but I removed them a few workouts ago because the bar was rolling funny when I lowered it. (the plates weren't flat)

So no, my form isn't right yet. It's just taking forever for me to get there on those two lifts. I just can't be going really heavy until I am mobile enough to do them right. Don't get me wrong my form is better than a lot of the **** I see at the gym but I know its not good enough. I just want to lift heavy but it is taking so much time to get the flexibility to do it right. Its very frustrating.

I just asked my own questions about box squats and the answer was novice trainers should only use box squat to learn the form a few weeks to 1 month,than he/she should get back to free weight squatting because at this stage we need to build up strength and forms not working on explosiveness.
I personally think you shouldnt compare your form with other people. Search youtube for Rippetoe's deadlifts he covered setups for deadlifts really well.

[phrog801]

I just asked my own questions about box squats and the answer was novice trainers should only use box squat to learn the form a few weeks to 1 month,than he/she should get back to free weight squatting because at this stage we need to build up strength and forms not working on explosiveness.
I personally think you shouldnt compare your form with other people. Search youtube for Rippetoe's deadlifts he covered setups for deadlifts really well.

So by the same logic i shouldnt really be going below parallel on my squats then? I think i have/had the same issue with squats as the guy in the vid i lean forward i bit too much especially on the last few reps when going ATG but thats getting corrected slowly.