CKD Keto Success, Feel free to ask any questions

[rcb0424]

A couple things:

1) got the bulletproof coffee going now. Bought organic butter, I found the irish brand but it was salted, so bought organic brand which didn't say it was grass fed but 'pasture fed'. Got the best coffee beans the grocery store had to offer, from African estates, and already had the coconut oil. Grind up around 4 tbsp of beans, then use half in a keurig refillable cup, and make a large cup of coffee, then repeat. After, blend in 1.5 tbsp of the butter and a tbsp of the coconut oil. Sprinkle cinnamon on top before blending. Blend. Pretty stellar. good taste, and through the first 2 days I've drank it around 7:20-7:30 and I haven't gotten hungry until noon or so.

2) New plan is to end CKD cut this Friday. Eat at maintenance until the following monday, then start a UD2 cut until October.

[bally18]

Amazing progress, that was done within 7 months of keto? With one month of maintenance throw in there?

I'm at work now but I might have to come back and re-read this thread to ask some questions as I am currently 190 and plan on trying to get down to 160 or even 150, which is pretty similar to your own stats pre and post diet.

Repped

[rcb0424]

Amazing progress, that was done within 7 months of keto? With one month of maintenance throw in there?

I'm at work now but I might have to come back and re-read this thread to ask some questions as I am currently 190 and plan on trying to get down to 160 or even 150, which is pretty similar to your own stats pre and post diet.

Repped

Right around 7 months yes with probably 1.5-2 months of maintenance over two separate breaks. I cut originally from 192 to mid 170s from January to middle of march. Then broke until may or so. Then back on from mid April through beginning of June to get into the mid to low 160s. Then most recent from July to now to drop to 153. While I might have lost more staying on the entire time I think the breaks helped with metabolism. I also tried to eat under maintenance on breaks but with regular foods. And I never took any breaks from gym work. Just upped all my lifts once on maintenance. Anyway ask away and I'll try to answer anything I can.

[rcb0424]

photo (1)11.jpg

This is an updated picture from friday. I've been on yohimine hcl caffeine first thing in the morning for about 2 weeks now. probably 8 total sessions. This picture reflects the change from the last picture I posted in my first post, and about 7 total yohimbine hcl fasted cardio sessions. Not a huge difference but I think I'm progressing.

[bally18]

Did you wait the full 2 week (minimum as some people say to go for 3-5 weeks) before having your first carb up?
I have done keto twice before and I have never bothered going for 2 full weeks and I have adjusted to keto fine, just wondering what you did as I may go the full 2 or more weeks without a carb up this time.

What kind of workouts you doing?

Btw, looking great in that new pic. You going to start clean bulking once you get into the 140's? You would look great with some more size.

[rcb0424]

Did you wait the full 2 week (minimum as some people say to go for 3-5 weeks) before having your first carb up?
I have done keto twice before and I have never bothered going for 2 full weeks and I have adjusted to keto fine, just wondering what you did as I may go the full 2 or more weeks without a carb up this time.

What kind of workouts you doing?

Btw, looking great in that new pic. You going to start clean bulking once you get into the 140's? You would look great with some more size.

I always start the diet on a Monday. So I don't go a full two weeks, rather I got 11 full days then carb up on the 12th which is that Friday. Do that to start each cycle and the hardest time is always that first weekend with no carb up. I'd never wait 3-5 weeks. I wouldn't be able to lift anything. It's bad enough by the end of the 11 days for me.

Workouts are splits.

Monday- chest biceps, 4 sets of 10 on flat bench, dumbbell curls, incline bench, hammer curls, and flys.
Tuesday- legs, 4 sets of 10 on squats, leg curls, leg extensions
Wednesday shoulders back, 4 sets of 10 on side and front lateral raises, rows, shoulder press, pull downs, pull ups ( assisted when needed)

Thursday rest and off

Friday deplete circuit style which I laid out a couple posts ago

Saturday off

Sunday cardio

Ab ripper x routine on mon, wednesday, Friday, and Sunday

Thanks for the props on progress. I'm going to try ud2 to drop into the 140s and as close to 10% as I can get BF. then I'm looking into lean gains for a bulk but I admittedly don't know much about it so I'm researching it as an option for now.

[uevenlift]

Im prty deep into ketosis (5 weeks) and im getting ok results,
down to 12%bf(more than likely less) and aim is 7%bf.

ive decided to step it up and start calculating calories..
something ive never done before today and hoping my numbers all add up.
ANY feedback, advice, tips etc will be appreciated


170pounds 12%bf = 158LBM

so...

158g protein x 4cal = 632cal (daily)
1500cal - 630cal (protein) = 870cal remaining.
870cal/9cal(fat) = 96g fat (daily

daily; 158g protein 96g fat >30g carbs.

if i have 4 solid meals this means (39.5g protein & 24g fat) + 2 shakes
or
if i can squeeze in my 5 meals (31.6g protein & 19.2g fat) + 1 shake

Is this correct, and get me to my goal????
(this is prty much what i have already been doing, just with less fat)


(supps= Horleys ice whey, glutamine (with post shake and morning), fiber sachet, fish oil, multi-V, black coffee+ tspn cinnamon for preworkout )

( i have no carbloads or cheatmeals at all)

[rcb0424]

Im prty deep into ketosis (5 weeks) and im getting ok results,
down to 12%bf(more than likely less) and aim is 7%bf.

ive decided to step it up and start calculating calories..
something ive never done before today and hoping my numbers all add up.
ANY feedback, advice, tips etc will be appreciated


170pounds 12%bf = 158LBM

so...

158g protein x 4cal = 632cal (daily)
1500cal - 630cal (protein) = 870cal remaining.
870cal/9cal(fat) = 96g fat (daily

daily; 158g protein 96g fat >30g carbs.

if i have 4 solid meals this means (39.5g protein & 24g fat) + 2 shakes
or
if i can squeeze in my 5 meals (31.6g protein & 19.2g fat) + 1 shake

Is this correct, and get me to my goal????
(this is prty much what i have already been doing, just with less fat)


(supps= Horleys ice whey, glutamine (with post shake and morning), fiber sachet, fish oil, multi-V, black coffee+ tspn cinnamon for preworkout )

( i have no carbloads or cheatmeals at all)

At first glance it looks good. Id actually encourage carb loads. They up metabolism when your cutting calories. Just keep it to 24 hours. As honestly without them if you are doing work in the gym then you'll start to lose it there. Maybe not take them at higher weights but def a lower IMO.

Also you are near the BF that I am and I'm looking into ud2 as a more advanced diet at this point IMO is needed to approach 10% body fat and further single digits.

[uevenlift]

At first glance it looks good. Id actually encourage carb loads. They up metabolism when your cutting calories. Just keep it to 24 hours. As honestly without them if you are doing work in the gym then you'll start to lose it there. Maybe not take them at higher weights but def a lower IMO.

Also you are near the BF that I am and I'm looking into ud2 as a more advanced diet at this point IMO is needed to approach 10% body fat and further single digits.

how often would u encourage the carbloads, every week or 2?
i rly wanna keep my carbs low day to day (excluding carbloads if necessary) so i have no question about being in ketosis, also i push through the tierd weak feeling and still smash a complete session (lifting +hiit)


Holy **** had a brief read into the diet, that is hella complex!!
awesome shock to the body

[rcb0424]

how often would u encourage the carbloads, every week or 2?
i rly wanna keep my carbs low day to day (excluding carbloads if necessary) so i have no question about being in ketosis, also i push through the tierd weak feeling and still smash a complete session (lifting +hiit)


Holy **** had a brief read into the diet, that is hella complex!!
awesome shock to the body

Yea UD2 is specifically for those ppl under 15% bodyfat that are targeting 10% or less. I brings in some concepts to work around the issues that, once you are around 12% or so, your body really fights to burn off the remaining fat.

I personally carb up weekly, from Friday afternoon/night through Saturday night, keeps me strong in the gym, and revs the metabolism back up (I drop calories low during the week).

The concept of ketosis and being in ketosis is overplayed. The diet works b/c calories in vs calories out. I wouldnt so much about being in ketosis as much as I would ensuring protein intake, working out hard in the gym, and making sure your calories are where they need to be.

[bally18]

Thanks for the props on progress. I'm going to try ud2 to drop into the 140s and as close to 10% as I can get BF. then I'm looking into lean gains for a bulk but I admittedly don't know much about it so I'm researching it as an option for now.

I've done ud2.0 before for a short time, it's an amazing diet especially for using to get past that 10%, but it's definitely not at all mentally easy.

I've done IF before and I will do it combined with keto again once school starts and I can workout in the mornings. Personally I love eating big meals and I've found with IF I can eat a bit dirtier post workout and stay pretty lean

[GasGas450]

The concept of ketosis and being in ketosis is overplayed. The diet works b/c calories in vs calories out.

? This is a confusing statement. If it's just a case of calories in vs calories out, why are you in nutritional ketosis instead of simply running a calorie deficit? Are you sure you realize what ketosis is?

[Atavis]

? This is a confusing statement. If it's just a case of calories in vs calories out, why are you in nutritional ketosis instead of simply running a calorie deficit? Are you sure you realize what ketosis is?

Why not? The food's better...

[rcb0424]

? This is a confusing statement. If it's just a case of calories in vs calories out, why are you in nutritional ketosis instead of simply running a calorie deficit? Are you sure you realize what ketosis is?

Haha, yes having read the entire book and basically everything published on it, and having spent mass time in ketosis, I believe I know what ketosis is. I run a ketosis diet bc it is the easiest routine for me to follow and blunts hunger the best, for me. I can't run deficits on a normal diet without being hungry all the time. I can on keto. If person A used a keto diet and cut at a specific deficit and that same person used a regular diet at the same exact deficit and with the same exact training, then the results would practically mirror each other, as long as the person normal dieting got their protein intake (to avoid muscle loss). And like atavis said, why not? The food is good.

[GasGas450]

[QUOTE=rcb0424;937250473] If person A used a keto diet and cut at a specific deficit and that same person used a regular diet at the same exact deficit and with the same exact training, then the results would practically mirror each other, QUOTE]


I wouldn't agree with that. According to Dr Tran Tien Chanh, when in ketosis, if your intake is 900 cal/day, through ketosis your body is then feasting on it's fat reserves at the rate of approx 2,000 cal/day so your body is living off of 2900 cal a day. That would have a significantly different out come than a dieter living off only 900 calories a day period.

And you initial statement about calories in vs calories out suprised me becasue I guess I thought most people that were on ketosis subscribed to Dr Gary Taube's point (author of "Good Calories, Bad Calories") that it's not the quantity of calories you eat but the quality.

However, what you are doing is certainly working for you regardless, congrats, and keep up the hard work.

[Atavis]

I wouldn't agree with that. According to Dr Tran Tien Chanh, when in ketosis, if your intake is 900 cal/day, through ketosis your body is then feasting on it's fat reserves at the rate of approx 2,000 cal/day so your body is living off of 2900 cal a day. That would have a significantly different out come than a dieter living off only 900 calories a day period.

No. If you are eating 900 kcal a day, you are living off 900 kcal a day. Fat reserves are going to be tapped regardless of whether you are in ketosis or not.

And you initial statement about calories in vs calories out suprised me becasue I guess I thought most people that were on ketosis subscribed to Dr Gary Taube's point (author of "Good Calories, Bad Calories") that it's not the quantity of calories you eat but the quality.

Macronutrient intake ratio's do not nullify the need to manipulate calories when trying to lose fat/weight.

If you really believe it does, I would invite you to show us some credible evidence of this being the case...

[rcb0424]

[QUOTE=GasGas450;937351093]

If person A used a keto diet and cut at a specific deficit and that same person used a regular diet at the same exact deficit and with the same exact training, then the results would practically mirror each other, QUOTE]


I wouldn't agree with that. According to Dr Tran Tien Chanh, when in ketosis, if your intake is 900 cal/day, through ketosis your body is then feasting on it's fat reserves at the rate of approx 2,000 cal/day so your body is living off of 2900 cal a day. That would have a significantly different out come than a dieter living off only 900 calories a day period.

And you initial statement about calories in vs calories out suprised me becasue I guess I thought most people that were on ketosis subscribed to Dr Gary Taube's point (author of "Good Calories, Bad Calories") that it's not the quantity of calories you eat but the quality.

However, what you are doing is certainly working for you regardless, congrats, and keep up the hard work.

The progress is what i really care about and would rather not get into the classic argument on this. I didn't quite understand your post. Your body burns at the same rate. Maybe not exact, I haven't read literature on that, but close enough that difference is minimal. Even Lyle McDonald who many agree is an expert on this, says that ketosis isn't necessary at all when dieting and has no added effect.

The diet works for me so I use it I've used it for my cuts over the last 5 years. If I had as much success with other diets than I'd probably use them. It's whatever floats your boat really. In the end, in my opinion, the most important thing with dieting is self discipline and sticking with a plan and making sure protein is high. Fat and carbs are the "fillers" on a diet and can be one real low, one real high, or moderate on both. I will say that breakdowns could possibly play a larger role in lean individuals looking to go lower. I obviously want to believe that since I'm getting near 10% and ! Going to do UD2 bc it's set up is so strict and carb cycles. That said, the large part of dieting population doesn't fall into that category where it's mostly stubborn fat.

[GasGas450]

No. If you are eating 900 kcal a day, you are living off 900 kcal a day. Fat reserves are going to be tapped regardless of whether you are in ketosis or not.


Macronutrient intake ratio's do not nullify the need to manipulate calories when trying to lose fat/weight.

If you really believe it does, I would invite you to show us some credible evidence of this being the case...

One ex. of credible evidence: (Upon posting my message, I received a return message stating that I cannot post links on this highly regulated forum until my post count hits 50, so you'll have to search this:

annals.org/article.aspx?volume=140&issue=10&page=769

With all due respect, am I missing something? (I don't want to engage in any classic arguements either, but I AM here researching nutrition and exercise to be more knowledgeable in regards to my own health and fitness)

Is it not nutritional ketosis 101? If you are not in a state of ketosis, by definition, your body is still relying on glycogen for it's primary source of fuel rather than fat. ..."through significant reduction of carbohydrate intake (typically to less than 50 grams per day), at which point the body makes a fundamental change from relying on glycogen as its main source of energy to relying on fat as the primary source of energy. In particular, the brain shifts from being entirely dependent on glucose, to being primarily dependent on beta-hydroxybutyrate – a so-called “ketone body.” Ketone bodies are chemical structures made by the liver (also somewhat in the kidney) out of fatty acids, primarily."-Dr Peter Attia, EatingAcademy.com

Peter, for example, eats 4500 cal/day and has lost 35 lbs or so and is ripped, even though he now (at this point in his life) execises a lot less than he had time to when he was at 20-25% body fat. (Now at 8%)

This is how I lost 4.5-5.5 lbs a week going to 240 to 185 in 12 weeks last spring without having a chance to do ANY exercise at all other than a bit of landscaping in my yard. (After years of weight lifting and mtn biking and eating fair, I still managed to attain Michelin Man status until I discoverred that I am insulin resistant and could correct that through ketosis )

If your body is in a state of nutritional ketosis, it's what you eat that ultimately matters, not how much you eat.

I agree that what you are doing has worked well for you. It is a complex issue that varies from body to body, no doubt, but there is a basic science behiind it.

[rcb0424]

One ex. of credible evidence: (Upon posting my message, I received a return message stating that I cannot post links on this highly regulated forum until my post count hits 50, so you'll have to search this:

annals.org/article.aspx?volume=140&issue=10&page=769

With all due respect, am I missing something? (I don't want to engage in any classic arguements either, but I AM here researching nutrition and exercise to be more knowledgeable in regards to my own health and fitness)

Is it not nutritional ketosis 101? If you are not in a state of ketosis, by definition, your body is still relying on glycogen for it's primary source of fuel rather than fat. ..."through significant reduction of carbohydrate intake (typically to less than 50 grams per day), at which point the body makes a fundamental change from relying on glycogen as its main source of energy to relying on fat as the primary source of energy. In particular, the brain shifts from being entirely dependent on glucose, to being primarily dependent on beta-hydroxybutyrate – a so-called “ketone body.” Ketone bodies are chemical structures made by the liver (also somewhat in the kidney) out of fatty acids, primarily."-Dr Peter Attia, EatingAcademy.com

Peter, for example, eats 4500 cal/day and has lost 35 lbs or so and is ripped, even though he now (at this point in his life) execises a lot less than he had time to when he was at 20-25% body fat. (Now at 8%)

This is how I lost 4.5-5.5 lbs a week going to 240 to 185 in 12 weeks last spring without having a chance to do ANY exercise at all other than a bit of landscaping in my yard. (After years of weight lifting and mtn biking and eating fair, I still managed to attain Michelin Man status until I discoverred that I am insulin resistant and could correct that through ketosis )

If your body is in a state of nutritional ketosis, it's what you eat that ultimately matters, not how much you eat.

I agree that what you are doing has worked well for you. It is a complex issue that varies from body to body, no doubt, but there is a basic science behiind it.

The basic science is 99.9% behind calories in vs out. So this guy claims to have lost 5.5 lbs a week without doing exercise b/c of ketosis? thats just dumb.

And saying being in 'a state of nutritional ketosis, it's what you eat that ultimately matters, not how much" is ridiculous.

agree to disagree so I can exit this argument that wont solve anything.

[GasGas450]

The basic science is 99.9% behind calories in vs out. So this guy claims to have lost 5.5 lbs a week without doing exercise b/c of ketosis? thats just dumb.

And saying being in 'a state of nutritional ketosis, it's what you eat that ultimately matters, not how much" is ridiculous.

agree to disagree so I can exit this argument that wont solve anything.

That's cool, I don't want to hijack your thread, it's a very worth while piece of work you have put together here, but your thread title does include the phrase, "ask questions".

Just to clarify, it wasn't that guy that lost 5 lbs a week, it was me. (At 47 yrs old, I've completely found my Mojo again). And my friend before me, and a female friend has now lost 38-40 lbs in about 12 weeks and still going thru Labor Day weekend. It's not ridiculous, it's the just the way ketosis works.

Here's to continued health and fitness success, however we may find it. Cheers.

[rcb0424]

That's cool, I don't want to hijack your thread, it's a very worth while piece of work you have put together here, but your thread title does include the phrase, "ask questions".

Just to clarify, it wasn't that guy that lost 5 lbs a week, it was me. (At 47 yrs old, I've completely found my Mojo again). And my friend before me, and a female friend has now lost 38-40 lbs in about 12 weeks and still going thru Labor Day weekend. It's not ridiculous, it's the just the way ketosis works.

Here's to continued health and fitness success, however we may find it. Cheers.

Don't worry about it and feel free to continue to ask questions. Your first post did have a sarcastic tone asking me if I "knew" what ketosis was. Obviously I do.

On the 5 lb weight loss per week, I'd make an educated guess it had to do with water an muscle loss along with fat. Unless you were huge but the stats you posted didn't make that seem like the cas

[NYFDXtreme]

Attachment 4791663Attachment 4791673

Tried to embed but not sure if it works.

A lot to get to here, had to actually switch to a pc from the ipad

1) 5'7, currently 152

2) books, mainly the ketogenic diet, although i must say i got a free version of the book and probably wouldnt pay for it only because there is so much of the information from it available on websites all around. article wise, if you havent gone to, go to [ it is lyle mcdonalds website and click on articles. basically I try and read everything the guy writes. especially on losing fat/dieting.

3) daily diet, well, its quite boring b/c I'm one of those who can eat the same thing over and over again. My meat cuts might change weeky but thats it really, on sundays i go and buy a big package of meat which I cook and eat over the week. Last week looked like this.

Monday-thursday (regular keto diet days)(I work an office 8-4 job)- Morning baked chicken thigh (8 am), 12- can of tuna in water with 1-2 tbsp of mayo w/ olive oil (the mayo that comes with olive oil in it), 5- whey shake with large scoop of peanut butter (dont measure the pb but prob 1.5 tbsp), work out around 6, post workout shake of scoop of whey and half scoop of carb supp (25 g whey, 15 g carb), and then dinner 1-2 chicken thighs, depending on size, and sauteed green beans in olive or cocunut oil with parmesan cheese sprinkled on top.

Sunday, also a keto day but I fast in the first part of it, so I wake up, do fasted cardio, then after 12 some time I have the whey shake with peanut butter, and then regular dinner that night. Def lower calories on sundays.

Friday- deplete workout in afternoon, so I fast until 12, eat a 50 gram carb meal (whatever i can find really, this week it was 4 snackwell fat free devil food cake cookies), then at 3:30 I eat an apple, deplete at 4:45-5:30, then have a post work out shake of 60 gram carb 60 gram protein, then wait an hour and until i Go to bed saturday night I eat whatever I want.

4)Carb up is Friday night starting around 6 until bedtime saturday night

5) Never track carbs so I dont know how many are too many. I can tell you i would never personally follow actual carb up guidelines that some ppl throw around. Its a massive amount and in my opinion I dont think its needed unless you are near a professional body builder or have huge muscles. for a guy like me, its just overkill. I eat whatever I want on carb ups until I'm not hungry. If I think or feel i'm going to far i'll try and slow down some.

6)Main sources of fat, mayo with olive oil, olive oil with cooking, coconut oil with cooking, chicken skin, fat from pork/steak, supplement with fish oil, supp with cla

7) just keep carbs low, I keep them minimal and only come from trace sources unless its my one green veggie a day. when lyle says 100, i believe its more for those that are adapted. Like for me, i am adapted now, so i can probably handle a good 100 during my cut days and still stay in keto where as a noob could def not

8) carb up ends saturday night, sunday do low intesity cardio or some sort of sport that makes me sweat, drink a lot of water, and prob back in sunday night/monday morning

9) short answer, sometimes i do cardio sometimes not, there has been some days i did and somedays i didnt. for the most part of my cut i did a sport on sundays, softball or football, but i didnt need that to get back in keto so quick. and for 95% of my cut i did zero cardio elsewhere. I've just started doing morning fasted cardio b/c i'm trying to drop down to 10% body fat

10) my fat intake i dont think is that high and i dont really worry much about it. I try and eat healthy fats if possible, olive oil, cla, fishoil, coconut oil, and walnuts/almonds

11) keto sticks, yea like i said originally, i use them and a pack lasts a year b/c i really only test weekly to see my time to get back into ketosis. if i'm not drinking water i can get purple readings, if my water is near 100 ounces a day then i'm at the lighter end but still showing in.

articles: i'll read them once i have a little more time.

Hey..awesome notes and advice on your thread..thank you. Have you noticed any bloating during the diet. I'm afraid I'm getting too much sodium when I'm eating protein. Should I concern myself with sodium levels in protein and fats? I'm beginning week two, and so far I show no ketos on my strips.

[rcb0424]

Hey..awesome notes and advice on your thread..thank you. Have you noticed any bloating during the diet. I'm afraid I'm getting too much sodium when I'm eating protein. Should I concern myself with sodium levels in protein and fats? I'm beginning week two, and so far I show no ketos on my strips.

Don't swear the strips. They don't always show especially if your drinking a lot of water. I don't bloat really but you might bc of sodium. I don't eat a lot of processed stuff on the diet so my sodium intake is probably fairly low although I've never actually tracked it.

[Atavis]

One ex. of credible evidence: (Upon posting my message, I received a return message stating that I cannot post links on this highly regulated forum until my post count hits 50, so you'll have to search this:

annals.org/article.aspx?volume=140&issue=10&page=769

With all due respect, am I missing something? (I don't want to engage in any classic arguements either, but I AM here researching nutrition and exercise to be more knowledgeable in regards to my own health and fitness)

Is it not nutritional ketosis 101? If you are not in a state of ketosis, by definition, your body is still relying on glycogen for it's primary source of fuel rather than fat. ..."through significant reduction of carbohydrate intake (typically to less than 50 grams per day), at which point the body makes a fundamental change from relying on glycogen as its main source of energy to relying on fat as the primary source of energy. In particular, the brain shifts from being entirely dependent on glucose, to being primarily dependent on beta-hydroxybutyrate – a so-called “ketone body.” Ketone bodies are chemical structures made by the liver (also somewhat in the kidney) out of fatty acids, primarily."-Dr Peter Attia, EatingAcademy.com

Peter, for example, eats 4500 cal/day and has lost 35 lbs or so and is ripped, even though he now (at this point in his life) execises a lot less than he had time to when he was at 20-25% body fat. (Now at 8%)

This is how I lost 4.5-5.5 lbs a week going to 240 to 185 in 12 weeks last spring without having a chance to do ANY exercise at all other than a bit of landscaping in my yard. (After years of weight lifting and mtn biking and eating fair, I still managed to attain Michelin Man status until I discoverred that I am insulin resistant and could correct that through ketosis )

If your body is in a state of nutritional ketosis, it's what you eat that ultimately matters, not how much you eat.

I agree that what you are doing has worked well for you. It is a complex issue that varies from body to body, no doubt, but there is a basic science behiind it.

Just going to point out what's in your study.

The estimated daily energy intake was 6.14 ± 1.37 MJ (1461.0 ± 325.7 kcal) in the low-carbohydrate diet group and 6.31 ± 0.68 MJ (1502.0 ± 162.1 kcal) in the low-fat diet group.

That is very low calorie for most people.

Now consider the weights of the people involved which you can see here:


Both groups had people ranging from about 70 kg to 150 kg (154-330 lbs in the US). 1500 kcal will result in weight and fatloss in EVERYONE with the original weights regardless of macro intake ratios or ketosis.

Then they follow with this realization:

However, the percentage of total weight loss that was fat mass was similar in the 2 groups (78% in the low-carbohydrate diet group and 74% in the low-fat diet group).

So, in the end they discovered that kcal in vs kcal out is still the largest measureable determinant for fat/weight loss that we can currently find.



I do love that you are willing to research this though.

[Heroboy107]

Why My Keto Always Fail < I Always Feel Dizzy and No Power