I have now given in to the fact some people just aren't meant to lift heavy

[Jasonk282]

Is that why bodybuilders never squat over 200 lbs?

Guess Ronnie Coleman was doing it wrong.

[Engineer_Guy]

I don't see how staying in the 6-8 rep range is going to keep the OP from ever squatting over 200lbs...

[Farley1324]

I don't see how staying in the 6-8 rep range is going to keep the OP from ever squatting over 200lbs...

I think his lack of food and being-a-pussy will be what does it.

[Engineer_Guy]

I think his lack of food and being-a-pussy will be what does it.

Quite possible.

[Jasonk282]

I think his lack of food and being-a-pussy will be what does it.

pretty much.

[-Lucifer]

*paging CYTX*
CYTX to the podium please

Oh, snap!

In before 25" thighs and a 525+ squat.

[mmafighter1294]

I don't see how staying in the 6-8 rep range is going to keep the OP from ever squatting over 200lbs...

If he cant gain strength in a lower rep range, because he doesn't eat enough, then he wont gain strength in a higher rep range, because he's still not eating enough.

[BringtheNoise]

everyone, sort of, and relatively speaking, CAN: however, buddy, Should they????????

it always comes down to goals: I won't make the usual assumption because of the name of this site, but IF: you are BODYBUILDING: there is far more to building great legs than how much ( in absolute numbers ), you squat....

as a matter of fact: LUCE: go back and look at the last 100 or so posted videos of people squatting, or, better yet, profile pictures of people who insist that squats should be heavy, and just look at the size of their legs: see anything resembling Branch Warren? lol.....

all it comes down to, is that , from a BODYBUILDING point of view, great legs are far more than how much you squat: it is more HOW you squat, and how it fits into an overall great leg routine....

if grunting up poundages that people have no right to be doing in Squats was the answer, this forum would be DELUGED with picture after picture of members with gigantic legs...but that is not the case.....

Drugs change things. If you're not on a bike, you gotta get stronger to get bigger.

[ThickAsABrick]

I think most people here completely missed what John was saying.

[Engineer_Guy]

I think most people here completely missed what John was saying.

A legitimate post got taken out of context? That never happens around here.

[ZoranM]

I think most people here completely missed what John was saying.

s

[-Lucifer]

The OP is not going to gain size even if he does 20 rep squats and goes as heavy as he can. He's doing IF and I have no idea why he'd do that when he only weighs 160 lbs.

[darinaldi]

I think most people here completely missed what John was saying.

Shocked, yes, shocked am I.

[CookAndrewB]

*paging CYTX*

CYTX to the podium please

To be fair, CYTX is working towards being a fitness model and competing as a lightweight strongman. You don't need big legs for either of those things

I think most people here completely missed what John was saying.

Meh, John isn't 330lbs at .07% bodyfat. What does he know?

[hammerfelt]

SL 5x5.

GO!

+1, repped

[Holly2710]

To be honest what I have found to work the best for me is high volume, low rep. I typically do a total of 25-30sets of legs. I see guys who just do a few sets of squats and leg curls expecting their legs to grow. Encorporate a variety of exercises such as lunges (can be done walking with DBs or BBs, on hammer strength shrug machine, smith machine), reverse hamstring extensions, ect.
Todays leg day was:
box squat x5, 8-12
seated leg curl supersetted with romanian deadlift x4, 6-12
smith machine lunges supersetted with glute extensions x5, 6-12
one legged leg press supersetted with abduction machine x4, 8-12
walking DB lunges supersetted with hack squat x3, 12-15
leg extensions x2, 15-20
calf raises x6, 6-12

I love glute work so you wouldn't need to superset exercises with isolation work for the glutes. But this workout has done wonders for adding mass to my legs. My squat went from 125lbs to now 175lbs. Also, I up my carb intake on leg days to ensure I get adequate energy.

[Retardo-pex]

One can not make a better post than these two combined from John.



Numers, numbers, numbers...

Let's assume that OPs way with words led us to believe that he blames low squat numbers for lack of leg size. He is doing something wrong, no doubt about it. But it's not necessarily the numbers.

Ask any bodybuilder when was the time he had most success, most growth. He'll name you a period early in his career. My best for example was the period in which I increased flat BP from 135 to 200. My chest grew insanely, relative to my body at the time, and I have never since, nor will I ever again, achieve so much muscle mass in an equal period of time(it wasn't very short). Same with legs, they blossomed before 225 sets. OP would probably be very happy with anything noticeable in the mirror. Maybe he doesn't want legs for the stage. Can he do it without squattin 315? Hell yes. See quote, it's HOW you train. Screw the numbers, just stimulate. Do higher rep ranges, do all ranges, do it with more good exercises, better schedule, more frequency, more volume.. Several inches can certainly come before giant numbers. Anyone who thinks differently is a rippetoe/"strenght training" brainwashed fool.

When you learn to stimulate/feel the muscle and beat/work around progressive overload in one or more ways, or deliberately not increase working weights even though you can while still growing, you've conquered a giant part of musclebuilding. Is the "method"(shouldn't even be called that) sure to give you results? No. But guess what, neither is the Holy progressive overload.

So:



Maybe. But just maybe only with the numbers.

If this time next year you are NOT at 315x2-3 but you legs are much bigger, now THAT's success.

I don't disagree with you, I'm a very big advocate of training the muscle vs training the lift when speaking of hypertrophy goals. I would be amazed if someone who was eating to grow did not gain significant size on thier legs while addind 100 lbs to thier squat though, assuming the same or better technique. Not saying someone will go from chicken legs to lee priest by adding 100 lbs to a lift but the only way I could see someone not growing from adding 100 lbs to a lift is if they are still eating like a bird.

[1ntensify]

you've always had a way with words.

Lol

[JOHN GARGANI]

You are still not gonna get big thighs squatting 200lbs @ a buck 60...bodybuilding or not.

Is that why bodybuilders never squat over 200 lbs?

both of you are being ridiculous....

to JASON: if you really think that a guy that weight and size cannot increase the size of his thighs squatting 200 pounds, then, my man, you simply don't get it....I won't even argue this point with you anymore, as I have disproven you over the years with all of the people I have trained


and to Farley: of course , many bodybuilders squat more than 200....if you read my comments carefully, you would see that I said it was all relevant and depending on what stage people were in, they might have to squat many hundred of pounds to improve.....

as long as both of you insist on living in the world of absolute numbers in BB, you will miss out on the fine points of what the human body is capable of without trashing it, as many end up doing, chasing the numbers games....

[CookAndrewB]

This is one of those "you got your hypertrophy in my strength training, you got your strength training in my hypertrophy" arguments

I agree that ultimately numbers don't matter. If someone can't squat 500lbs, it doesn't necessarily have any bearing on their ability to grow and develop from an aesthetic aspect. The only thing that matters is that the person is working towards getting stronger. What level their strength is at is of little consequence, truthfully. If they currently squat 45lbs, and they get that up to 105, they will probably see positive results from that gain in strength. Will they look like a highly chemically enhanced 300+lb bodybuilder? No, that's not reasonable, but they will PROBABLY look better. It's a step in the right direction, and that is really what this is all about regardless of your current strength or proficiency.

This does presume that diet/recovery are not an issue and that the building material to grow is available and that proper time is given to build/repair. If those items aren't in line, then you can train all you want and not get significant (or any) results.

You can't ignore the need to get stronger, and you can't assume that no results will be forthcoming until some arbitrary weight lifted is achieved.

[JOHN GARGANI]

You can't ignore the need to get stronger, and you can't assume that no results will be forthcoming until some arbitrary weight lifted is achieved.

thank you so much, buddy, I can always count on you for logic and reasoning!

[midcoastking33]

Progressive overload still stands. You have to do something better eventually even if size is the only goal

[ChairManMao82]

You're probably an ectomorph body type so it's hard for you to gain muscle mass because of your natural lankiness. If you want to see your squat numbers go up, gain serious weight and stop having such a negative pussified attitude about making strength or size gains. You're probably not eating correctly for your body type.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Progressive overload still stands. You have to do something better eventually even if size is the only goal

yes! but in BB, progressive overload can be achieved by many other means BESIDES just raising the weight....

every single movement we do in BB has a lifetime "cap" so to speak: your bench, squat, etc, will NOT go up endlessly throughout your lifting life...

because of that, we have to employ various other means to up the intensity and signal to the body that it needs to continue the compensation process...

[ZoranM]

yes! but in BB, progressive overload can be achieved by many other means BESIDES just raising the weight....

every single movement we do in BB has a lifetime "cap" so to speak: your bench, squat, etc, will NOT go up endlessly throughout your lifting life...

because of that, we have to employ various other means to up the intensity and signal to the body that it needs to continue the compensation process...

Stop it, John.
That is blasphemy. If you are online often enough and post about that often enough, you will be hanged. I have marks on my neck.
BB is just up and down with more weights and food. Nothing artistic about it, no IQ or any other effort required. That is why everyone looks fantastic. They even have striations and graininess.

[CookAndrewB]

Well, John, I'm certain I can find other things to be dogmatic about

The real confusion, as I see it, comes when we talk about "getting stronger." The assumption, almost uniformly, is that this suggestion means raising your 1RM. While I think there is some merit to this pursuit regardless of your end goal (bodybuilding/powerlifting/figure skating) it is unwise to think of this as the only metric that matters. Increasing your 10RM has a lot of merit, as does moving a set weight faster, doing the same number of reps in less time during a set, or even completing a set workout in less overall time; a la crossfit, right?

I would say the "artistic touch" to all of this is a different issue. If a slight flair of the pinky helps you hit your biceps better, then apply that to your exercise performance and selection. Then, with that flair of the pinky bicep curl, work towards increasing your strength in some fashion! You can mix your art and strength training. In many ways powerlifters inherently do this, right? They know the form they need to handle max weight in gear and focus strictly on this. They analyze their weak muscle groups and pick supporting lifts to close any performance gaps. Bodybuilding is no different in this regard. You know what exercises you need to target lagging muscle groups, you use those exercises, and you work to increase strength in those exercises until it is time to shift focus.

I'm telling you, with a little bit of logic we can all get along

[JOHN GARGANI]

Stop it, John.
That is blasphemy. If you are online often enough and post about that often enough, you will be hanged. I have marks on my neck.
BB is just up and down with more weights and food. Nothing artistic about it, no IQ or any other effort required. That is why everyone looks fantastic. They even have striations and graininess.

I know...I just might have to walk around with a Scarlet Letter! lol....


it's just that the previous posters statement about how someone who squats 200 pounds is a rank amateur, just got to me....

I answer a lot of the threads where people ask to evaluate a squat video: in most cases, they are putting up close to, or more than that weight, and 90 percent of the time, they do not have very big legs..nor is the rest of their body that big....

of course, they never wonder about this: "maybe how much I am grunting and cheating to lift, so that I can brag to my friends about what my squat or bench numbers are" is NOT the answer to their problems....

but hey! makes it easier to just go by the numbers and not have to think it out....


if they did, they would start thining along these lines:

The real confusion, as I see it, comes when we talk about "getting stronger." The assumption, almost uniformly, is that this suggestion means raising your 1RM. While I think there is some merit to this pursuit regardless of your end goal (bodybuilding/powerlifting/figure skating) it is unwise to think of this as the only metric that matters. Increasing your 10RM has a lot of merit, as does moving a set weight faster, doing the same number of reps in less time during a set, or even completing a set workout in less overall time; a la crossfit, right?

[SIG4]

I have now given in to the fact some people just aren't meant to lift heavy

I have now given in to the fact some people just aren't meant to lift.

[CookAndrewB]

I answer a lot of the threads where people ask to evaluate a squat video: in most cases, they are putting up close to, or more than that weight, and 90 percent of the time, they do not have very big legs..nor is the rest of their body that big....

of course, they never wonder about this: "maybe how much I am grunting and cheating to lift, so that I can brag to my friends about what my squat or bench numbers are" is NOT the answer to their problems....

but hey! makes it easier to just go by the numbers and not have to think it out....

That is a very common problem, and one that I sometimes struggle with myself if I'm honest. While I'm primarily interested in strength endurance and maximal strength, I frequently find that I have to really monitor my form to make sure I'm not moving weight at the expense of a potential injury down the line. With age, I've found that I would rather take twice as long to hit a goal if it minimizes my risk of injury. While we encourage beginners to take advantage of fast immediate gains, I think we forget to go back and say "ok, that phase is over, now come up with a plan that slows things down and maintains movement integrity." Like it was previously pointed out, our ability to gain has some logical end. Of course, you can extend how long you can make gains if you are continually getting injured and starting over from square one every 2-3 years

So this "move weight at any cost" mentality is 100% driven by the misconception that weight is the single most crucial factor. Good movement is important, and ultimately strength is really only important if you can express it in a way that isn't self destructive.

[Engineer_Guy]

So this "move weight at any cost" mentality is 100% driven by the misconception that weight is the single most crucial factor. Good movement is important, and ultimately strength is really only important if you can express it in a way that isn't self destructive.

Quoted for emphasis. There are so many wanna-be power lifters on these forums. In training a power lifter or weight lifter will emphasize technique first. Yes they have to put weight on the bar and yes they train with a lot of 5's, triples, doubles and singles. But they also want to ingrave the correct motor patterns on their lifts. If their technique breaks down, they are not training the correct pathways. Weight lifters start training with the bar only (sometimes broomsticks if they are very young) and are not allowed to add weight until their technique is flawless. Even bodybuilders apply these principles to their training except they call it mind muscle connection.

This is probably one of the main reasons novices plateue. You can grind away at squats day after day but if you are not using the same exact technique each time, you are in an essence training a seperate lift every time.