Success is based off extraordinary opportunity, not individual merit (discuss)

[eXcelerate]

The products of the events in our lives lead to success, very little is it individual talent or merit.

If anyone is really interested in this, read the book Outliers, it explains how the general public defines successful people based off how hard they worked or some "god given talent". But the author looks deeper into these people, into their lives, where they were born, where they went to school, their education, their influences(a major one), people they've met along the way who gave them work opportunities, etc. It's really interesting and i'm not done reading the book but it's very well written and provides tons of examples of how success is more than just "talent" or hard work.

Edit: I am not saying hard work is not a part of success, but its not the only or largest part. One of the many examples is Bill Gates who coded for thousands of hours on computers in the 90's... sure he put in a lot of work, but he was one of the few given access to high-tech time-sharing computers allowing him to code because he went to a rich high school, when the rest of the world did not have them yet because they were very expensive. And Steve Jobs, who grew up knowing one of the founders from Hewlett-Packerd who helped him in his younger years. That's like aspiring to be a clothes designer and growing up right next to Giorgio Armani.

Edit 2: Lol at those calling me a *******, please grow up and learn to have a serious discussion. I'm not disagreeing with anyone's views, I am merely stating how opportunity plays a critical role in many people's success.

[SilverToothBrah]

not sure what you mean due to the way you have said it in the title and op but I would say all my work in lifting is down to hard work

[cliffsmcgee]

Success is based off of persistence and determination. a willingness to push forward and not be scared of being better than you think you're not.

[RobbinBanks]

agreed OP, human being are products of environment and genetics primarily. even when someone "earns" something, opportunities and other things out of their control likely contributed

[RobbinBanks]

Success is based off of persistence and determination. a willingness to push forward and not be scared of being better than you think you're not.

no its not, the world is full of failures with all of these traits.

[getatmebros]

No hate OP but dont you think maybe thats just wishful thinking?

[eXcelerate]

not sure what you mean due to the way you have said it in the title and op but I would say all my work in lifting is down to hard work

I've been reading the book Outliers, and he talks about how very succesful people are succesful because of the amazing opportunities they have been presented with.

For example Bill Gates went to a rich highschool with the most advanced computer lab in the country. Jobs grew up next to a Hewlet-packerd founder who gave him amazing opportunities that led to his success.

[LiftersHigh]

It's a combination of opportunity and merit.

[trygve]

Success is based off of persistence and determination. a willingness to push forward and not be scared of being better than you think you're not.

That's been my experience. Luck is involved, but a lot of luck consists of having the determination to maintain the course through the rough times until you eventually do end up at the right place and the right time.


I've seen a lot more failure come from people shooting themselves in the foot (often repeatedly) than from bad luck.

[RobbinBanks]

I've been reading the book Outliers, and he talks about how very succesful people are succesful because of the amazing opportunities they have been presented with.

For example Bill Gates went to a rich highschool with the most advanced computer lab in the country. Jobs grew up next to a Hewlet-packerd founder who gave him amazing opportunities that led to his success.

yup, every success can say that at least one factor totally outside of their control was key to their success. that factor coming together is what separates the successful from the merely try-hards

[frank112]

OP you are mostly right. I'd say it's 80% opportunity and 20% work ethic.

Most people get higher level positions early solely because they're lucky enough to be at the right place in the right time.

Like that Director at AMEX who made a thread recently. He admitted he got his biggest boost because someone left the firm and he was the only one that could fill the position in a pinch which in turn catapulted his career when other opportunities were made available.

[RobbinBanks]

Th, but a lot of luck consists of having the determination to maintain the course through the rough times until you eventually do end up at the right place and the right time.

you dont think there are many MANY people who maintain the course to no avail? I'm just thinking in terms of business. Plenty of people who work hard and deserve to have a successful business dont, thats just reality. Not everyone can succeed.

[sellerdoar]

Success is based off of persistence and determination. a willingness to push forward and not be scared of being better than you think you're not.

say that to the persistent and determined 99% of the population who will never do anything exceptional with their lives. for just about anyone who has achieved an extraordinary level of success, you can identify a series of events/attributes entirely out of their control which lead or contributed to that success.

[sellerdoar]

I've been reading the book Outliers, and he talks about how very succesful people are succesful because of the amazing opportunities they have been presented with.

For example Bill Gates went to a rich highschool with the most advanced computer lab in the country. Jobs grew up next to a Hewlet-packerd founder who gave him amazing opportunities that led to his success.

this. everyone read this book.

[RobbinBanks]

say that to the persistent and determined 99% of the population who will never do anything exceptional with their lives. for just about anyone who has achieved an extraordinary level of success, you can identify a series of events/attributes entirely out of their control which lead or contributed to that success.

EXACTLY. I lol when people say that persistence and determination are the key to success, as if there arent thousands of hardworking folk who never amount to anything exceptional for every one who does. The difference is usually circumstance

[RussWheeler]

combo of both OP, simple as that.

/thread

[ymer]

Posters ITT are losers who blame their lack of success on luck.

[coynemoney]

Depends on your definition of success but I tend to agree with the statement. For example, there are tons of talented musicians/song writers out there who play in ****ty bars while there are talentless lucky/connected people who are on the pop charts. Most CEOs of large corporations got there through a combination of hard work and connections with the connections being more important I think.

However, to reach a moderate level of success I think is more based on persistence and determination while elevating to elite levels of success (top 1%) is largely opportunity.

[musculoid]

You can come to a conclusion when you actually become successful.

[eXcelerate]

combo of both OP, simple as that.

/thread

I'm not denying that there's definitely talent and work involved, but many successful people have been given extraordinary opportunities over and over and over.

[PowerOfTruth]

Certainly can be a combination of both. But the dribble in the OP is a liberal post-modern, socialist concoction that has turned into this generations sentiment.

People don't want to WORK for anything anymore. The college grad expects (demands, really) a $50K salary right out of school. Company car, office, two weeks off, etc. etc. The older generations believed in working for those things ("putting in your time"). When they don't get it, as is the case most often, they create this sentiment to cope with the successful people they know. Some call it jealousy, some use fancy words like in the OP.

[F23]

The products of the events in our lives lead to success, very little is it individual talent or merit.

Loser's excuse for failure.

/thread

[trygve]

you dont think there are many MANY people who maintain the course to no avail? I'm just thinking in terms of business. Plenty of people who work hard and deserve to have a successful business dont, thats just reality. Not everyone can succeed.

The answer probably depends on your measure for success. Not everybody ends up with million-dollar salaries or relaxing in a hot tub filled with Rolexes. But of the somewhat-more-than-a-dozen startups I've been involved with (and the others that I've dealt with), it's really come down to maintaining determination and focus and not doing something completely stupid that screws everything up.

The most frustrating thing is that a whole lot of people abruptly run out of steam or do something monumentally and fatally stupid just as they're about to succeed. More people are afraid of success than realize it, so it's a good idea to examine your fears and get a grip on them before venturing out into the entrepreneurial world. I see a lot more self-sabotage than I see bad luck or a lack of opportunity.

[scrace]

success is when luck meets preparation.

have a nice day.

[eXcelerate]

Loser's excuse for failure.

/thread

No, because often we all have opportunities that we pass up that could have led to something successful.

[RichieW]

Hate this ****ing attitude, you can be given all the opportunities in the world but you have to have the determination to follow through with them.

People who sit and bitch about a lack of opportunity haven't worked hard enough to force themselves in to good situations. Of course it's easier for some people, but most who complain about this kind of thing are willing to wallow in self pity and complain about how easy other people have it rather than go out and make their own opportunities.

When I see things like The Pursuit of Happyness, a true story of a guy who becomes homeless and in a year becomes a stock broker, I have little sympathy for those who are willing to sit around and complain rather than put in the hard graft.

[Rhythm825]

"It's not the grades you make, it's the hands you shake."

[RobbinBanks]

Loser's excuse for failure.

/thread

no. Its just true if you look at the world. You think every hardworking person achieves theier goals? not a chance, otherwise there would be 398729989329 more billionaires and s*it

[SilverToothBrah]

is outliers a motivating or demotivating book?

will it help me or give me useless knowledge?

[Driftslut]

Itt, life lessons from people in their late teens and early 20's...


















LOL.