***The Official Atheist and Christian Friendly Discussion***

[2nd_chance]

Just stop already, you keep using the Greek translated word of sozo, which means saved, whole, or healed to fit you narrative of salvation. Jesus never preached that you could only attain "sozo" though believing in him, he would have thought that blasphemous. He preached only repentance and following the laws of Yahweh. He never preached to believe in him, only in Yahweh and to repent. I won't even address John. I understand that you want and need to believe. Just keep in mind that there are more of us that don't don't believe that Jesus was god than do.

Edit: and my debating is just fine. I'm not a one trick pony with only being able to recite the bible.

Seriously bro, you make these wild off-the-mark claims about the Bible and what Jesus said and didn't say and you always have an excuse why you were incorrect. Repentance is the way to salvation. Of course Jesus preached repentance, but to make the claim that Jesus said nothing about salvation is asinine. You see, unlike you, I believe the whole Bible. It's perfectly fine that you don't believe any of it, but don't think you can tell me what it says and doesn't say because you will be wrong.

[OldFartTom]

In an earlier post I suggested that thedickus was being selective -- by which I had suggested he was placing different parts of the Bible in different standings, picking from from synoptic gospels, but treating John differently on the basis it was added later and as the result of changed opinions of early Christians, and Paul's writing were another matter, and if the author was unclear that was worse etc. But he disagreed with that saying he wasn't selective.

I personally place all parts of the Bible (not including apocryphal, but that's a different debate..) in equal standing and as Gospel - cheap pun intended

I think that one difference accounts for much of the difference in our interpretation

[mtpockets]

Just stop already, you keep using the Greek translated word of sozo, which means saved, whole, or healed to fit you narrative of salvation. Jesus never preached that you could only attain "sozo" though believing in him, he would have thought that blasphemous. He preached only repentance and following the laws of Yahweh. He never preached to believe in him, only in Yahweh and to repent. I won't even address John. I understand that you want and need to believe. Just keep in mind that there are more of us that don't don't believe that Jesus was god than do.

Edit: and my debating is just fine. I'm not a one trick pony with only being able to recite the bible.

I am enjoying your comments in this thread.

[7Seconds]

I am enjoying your comments in this thread.

People often wonder why one would argue on the internet and comments like these are a good reason to do it in my view. Because arguing on the internet is typically not done to change the mind of the person you're arguing with. A typical internet debate consists of two opposing people throwing sources at each other and then coming up with sources to contradict the opponent or finding a flaw in your opponent's source. That typically doesn't go anywhere.

But the benefit isn't for any of the people doing the arguing, it's for the people on the sidelines. The goal of public debate has never been to influence the mind of your direct opponent, it's to influence the audience. People who are on the fence or not as entrenched as the debaters can see new insights and are exposed to opposing views.

Just my 2 cents for the day.

[thedickus]

Seriously bro, you make these wild off-the-mark claims about the Bible and what Jesus said and didn't say and you always have an excuse why you were incorrect. Repentance is the way to salvation. Of course Jesus preached repentance, but to make the claim that Jesus said nothing about salvation is asinine. You see, unlike you, I believe the whole Bible. It's perfectly fine that you don't believe any of it, but don't think you can tell me what it says and doesn't say because you will be wrong.

Seriously bro, these claims about the bible aren't wild or off-the-mark at all. They're beliefs held by historians and taught in seminaries. In fact during seminary it's not at all uncommon for students to lose their faith when they confront the truth and the historical inaccuracies in the bible. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired and infallible word of god then do what the ending of Mark suggests and go and handle poisonous snakes. LOL there are plenty of YouTube videos of this going wrong. Historians have known for years that this ending of Mark wasn't in the original text and was added centuries later by scribes, like the adulteress woman story found only in John.

I read your testimony and to me it sounded like you could've been tripping on DMT, it's been known to cause religious experiences in people. Your claim to have never heard of god/Jesus is suspect to me. It's kind of hard to live in this country and not have heard in some way. With the guerrilla marketing campaign the christians have been doing for years in this country. Between xmas carols, billboards, hell it's even on our money, not hearing of any god means you've never read a book, watched a TV show or movie, and pretty much lived a shut in existence in a remote part of the country. I'm not saying it's not possible, just not probable.
Historians think the Moses story could've been caused by someone tripping on DMT from a burning acacia bush and attributed to the Moses character over the centuries before oral tradition was put into writing. Supposed you were born and lived in India instead of the USA and claim to have never heard of any god before. It's most likely if you tripped on DMT your subconscious would trigger Brahma or Vishnu in your drug induced religious experience. Wouldn't it be ironic if the thing you claim saved you from a life of drugs/addiction was an actual drug?

[ChazWood]

People often wonder why one would argue on the internet and comments like these are a good reason to do it in my view. Because arguing on the internet is typically not done to change the mind of the person you're arguing with. A typical internet debate consists of two opposing people throwing sources at each other and then coming up with sources to contradict the opponent or finding a flaw in your opponent's source. That typically doesn't go anywhere.

But the benefit isn't for any of the people doing the arguing, it's for the people on the sidelines. The goal of public debate has never been to influence the mind of your direct opponent, it's to influence the audience. People who are on the fence or not as entrenched as the debaters can see new insights and are exposed to opposing views.

Just my 2 cents for the day.

While I agree that insight is gleaned from content of threads such as this, IMHO its likely not the intent but a byproduct with the principal objective being to reinforce ones own beliefs/ideologies.

but what do I know. You could all be computer bots being run from a giant server in Pakistan and I'm actually talking to myself.

I do know I need more coffee.

[2nd_chance]

Seriously bro, these claims about the bible aren't wild or off-the-mark at all. They're beliefs held by historians and taught in seminaries. In fact during seminary it's not at all uncommon for students to lose their faith when they confront the truth and the historical inaccuracies in the bible. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired and infallible word of god then do what the ending of Mark suggests and go and handle poisonous snakes. LOL there are plenty of YouTube videos of this going wrong. Historians have known for years that this ending of Mark wasn't in the original text and was added centuries later by scribes, like the adulteress woman story found only in John.

I'm thankful for your interest in the Bible. The unbelief of some doesn't sway me in the slightest. As to education, I have both an MBA and a doctorate. I'm glad that you're finding youtube so useful.

I read your testimony and to me it sounded like you could've been tripping on DMT, it's been known to cause religious experiences in people.

To be clear, I find your remarks here to be personally offensive.

Your claim to have never heard of god/Jesus is suspect to me. It's kind of hard to live in this country and not have heard in some way. With the guerrilla marketing campaign the christians have been doing for years in this country. Between xmas carols, billboards, hell it's even on our money, not hearing of any god means you've never read a book, watched a TV show or movie, and pretty much lived a shut in existence in a remote part of the country. I'm not saying it's not possible, just not probable.

I think you need to read better or slower. I never made the claim that I hadn't heard of God. That would be preposterous. I said I didn't know any Christians and had never been to church. Further, no one had ever presented the gospel to me. That has nothing to do with never hearing about God.

Historians think the Moses story could've been caused by someone tripping on DMT from a burning acacia bush and attributed to the Moses character over the centuries before oral tradition was put into writing. Supposed you were born and lived in India instead of the USA and claim to have never heard of any god before. It's most likely if you tripped on DMT your subconscious would trigger Brahma or Vishnu in your drug induced religious experience. Wouldn't it be ironic if the thing you claim saved you from a life of drugs/addiction was an actual drug?

Sigh.

*****

Instead of attacking the beliefs of others (I realize how fun that must be for you) why don't you instead tell us what you believe. Because all I've heard from you is what you don't believe.

[thedickus]

I'm glad that you're finding youtube so useful.

YouTube is full of funny videos, Appalachian snake handlers getting bit is just a small section of it. There's also videos of people speaking in tongues, those are funny too. You should check them out some time. There's also a bunch of cute puppy videos.

To be clear, I find your remarks here to be personally offensive.

Why? Why would you find a naturalistic explanation to a ridiculous claim to be personally offensive? If you do, then that's your problem.

I think you need to read better or slower. I never made the claim that I hadn't heard of God. That would be preposterous. I said I didn't know any Christians and had never been to church. Further, no one had ever presented the gospel to me. That has nothing to do with never hearing about God.

My bad, I tend to gloss over testamonials, they're all pretty much the same...I hit rock bottom, blah, blah, blah...god came over me, blah, blah, blah.

Sigh.

I agree, it just gets so old some times.

Instead of attacking the beliefs of others (I realize how fun that must be for you) why don't you instead tell us what you believe. Because all I've heard from you is what you don't believe.

This is a "friendly" christian/atheist discussion thread. Your beliefs are pretty easily attacked. If I found a "friendly" scientology/atheist discussion thread, their beliefs would be pretty easily attacked also. Not sure why you think yours are any different. As far as my beliefs in religion? I'm guessing you've missed the part about me being an atheist. I have no beliefs. We're here we die, we become worm food. We get put into the ground, our bodies decay and seep into the soil giving earth worms nutrients, it rains, earth worms come to the surface. Birds eat the earth worms, birds fly over fields and crops and poop, the poop helps fertilize more stuff grows. That's the true everlasting life. I'll admit that your idea sounds more appealing, but not so much more appealing than scientologists.

[2nd_chance]

Thanks thedickus. I really wasn’t inquiring about your belief in God but your worldview and purpose for living. But it’s fine to continue to focus on others’.

[2nd_chance]

@thedickus -- by the way, is that your home gym in your avi? I was wondering if public gyms were open in Illinois. I've home gyming for about 5 years and don't think I could go back.

[OldFartTom]

... A typical internet debate consists of two opposing people throwing sources at each other and then coming up with sources to contradict the opponent or finding a flaw in your opponent's source. That typically doesn't go anywhere...

I agree and was why I asked 2nd_chance if it was wise when he re-bumped this thread

[thedickus]

@thedickus -- by the way, is that your home gym in your avi? I was wondering if public gyms were open in Illinois. I've home gyming for about 5 years and don't think I could go back.

Yes it is. I'll post some pics of it in full. Not sure about public gyms being opened, but I think they are. I haven't been to one in over a decade besides a hotel gym.

[dks53593]

Ok I`ll Play......................" You'd think that if Jesus truly thought that he was the son of god" your Words,............ with your simple assumption, you believe he didn`t think he was the Son of God, in actuality the evidence is contrary to your Statement, you sound as if he should have just said, Hey hi folks I`m Yahweh, but that doesn`t take into consideration the Jews of his day, they didn`t have any concept of the Holy Trinity, they only knew God the Father, and not God the Son and Holy Spirit, so in that day, for him to say he was God, would not have made any sense to them and would have been considered blasphemy, it would have been counter productive to Jesus in his efforts to get people to listen to him.

Look at his relationships with the religious leaders, they are revealing, as to who Jesus was and knew who he was, he made a truly radical statement, that it`s not what enters a person that defiles them, but what comes out of his heart, That statement in and of itself sets aside huge portions of the Old testament book of Leviticus, with it`s meticulous rules concerning purity. The Pharisee`s didn`t like his message, they wanted to maintain the Status Quo, but Jesus was in their way, he was a doing a new thing and he was a threat, because he was setting aside divinely inspired Jewish Scriptures and supplant them with his own Teachings.

What about his Relationship with the Roman Authorities ? if he had been an innocuous sage telling little parables, then why have him crucified ? especially during the Passover season, there must have been a Reason for the Sign over his head "King of the Jew`s", either Jesus had made that verbal claim, or someone clearly thought he did .

What about his Miracles? "If I, by the Finger of God, I cast out demons, then you will know the kingdom of God has come upon you, his miracles, he see`s as bringing about something unprecedented, the coming of God`s dominion, he see`s himself as the one in whom and through whom the promises of God come to pass. Jesus taught in a radical new way, he began his teachings with the phrase "Amen I say to you", It means I swear in advance to the truthfulness of what I`m about to say, that was revolutionary during that time, In Judaism you needed the testimony of two witnesses, so one could witness the truth of the other & vice versa, Jesus, instead of basing his teachings on the Authority of others, he speaks of his own authority, he was someone who considered himself to have authority above and beyond what the Old Testament prophets had. He believed and taught that he possessed divine inspiration and had divine authority.

What about when he used the word ABBA when relating to God, that word connotes an intimacy in a relationship between child and his father, in the context as Jesus operated, it was customary for Jews to work around, avoid, having to say the name of God, his name was the most Holy word you could speak and they feared mispronouncing it, ABBA is personal, Jesus using it was the initiator of an intimate relationship that was previously unavailable. It implies Jesus had an intimacy with God that was unlike Judaism had ever seen, heard or witnessed, and Jesus Preached, taught, that only through a relationship with HIM, does this type of prayer language, does a relationship become possible with God.

Jesus referring to himself as the Son of Man, this term, is extremely important in revealing Jesus` messianic self understanding, he wasn`t just someone who did good deeds, nor did he think of himself that way, he thought of himself as unique and supreme, Look up John 1:1-3 & 14, no where in the Bible, does it portray Jesus as uncertain about his identity and mission, no ambiguity and angst, Identity confirmation, yes, at his Baptism, his temptation, at the transfiguration , in the Garden of Gethsemane, those are specific area`s in which God confirmed to him who he was and what his mission was.

Jesus, himself alone, thought and acted as he was the person appointed by God to bring in the climatic saving act of God in Human history, he believed he was the agent of God to carry that out, that he and he alone had the authority, from God, empowered and spoke for God, he did the Work of God as the final Messiah, Mark 10:45

Jesus said "I and the Father are one", he and he lone has the Authority to speak for the Father, to act for the Father, "If you reject me, you`ve rejected the Father", "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father", Jesus believed and taught that People`s eternal destiny hinged on whether or not they believed in him, " if you confess with your Mouth"

an interesting question to ask yourselves, why is there no other 1st Century Jew who has millions, Billions of Followers today ? why isn`t there a John the Baptist movement ? Why, of all the 1st century figures including the Roman Emperors, is Jesus still worshipped today, while others have vanished into history ? It`s because this Jesus, the Historical Jesus, is also the Living God, and that salvation can be found in no other, that`s why he is till around and all others have faded.

There is ample evidence of who Jesus was and claimed to be, some may not want to hear it, see it or believe it, that is their choice

gibberish post, your religion is filled with hate and lies and your candidate Trump won’t concede the election he lost four months ago

[dks53593]

Hey David, nice thread topic. I don't post much on bb.com anymore but still...how did I miss this thread?

I read the NT last year, and now I'm on the OT. It's a much tougher(?) read (for want of a better word), but I have a Bible that offers ''footnotes'' to help decipher the hidden meanings. The languages of the OT and NT don't translate well to modern times, so I think that it's important to underscore when understanding what the teachings were and how we can pick them up now.

Bibles and Trump flags should be destroyed. Your religion is garbage and Trump is garbage.

[2nd_chance]

Bibles and Trump flags should be destroyed. Your religion is garbage and Trump is garbage.

Do you even lift?

[OldFartTom]

gibberish post, your religion is filled with hate and lies and your candidate Trump won’t concede the election he lost four months ago

Come on dks53593 you can do better than that. If you want to Troll you got to either catch people's attention making them think you're serious and rile them up, or make a witty/funny comment that devastates them. Just shouting about Trump election is weakness like you're a beta-Troll.
You need to MTGA (Make Trolling Great Again), get with the program.

[2nd_chance]

It seems that atheists have very little to say about their actual lifestyle and value system. That’s disappointing. I was hoping that there would be more insight into that side of the coin. Why is that?

[supramax]

Do you even lift?

Brutal!

[7Seconds]

It seems that atheists have very little to say about their actual lifestyle and value system. That’s disappointing. I was hoping that there would be more insight into that side of the coin. Why is that?

A combination of empathy, logic, and reason. Throw in a dash of early childhood memories in which I experienced conditions where those traits were lacking, add a very aggressive desire to avoid similar situations. Let simmer for three or more decades, and you've got me.

[2nd_chance]

A combination of empathy, logic, and reason. Throw in a dash of early childhood memories in which I experienced conditions where those traits were lacking, add a very aggressive desire to avoid similar situations. Let simmer for three or more decades, and you've got me.

Thanks. I appreciate the input!

[thedickus]

It seems that atheists have very little to say about their actual lifestyle and value system. That’s disappointing. I was hoping that there would be more insight into that side of the coin. Why is that?

I stay pretty busy with satan worshipping on Mondays, golf league on Tuesdays, child sacrifice meetings on Thursdays, Friday night is date night. You know pretty normal stuff.
I'm pretty sure we're the same as you are. Unfortunately since my stances on social issues are liberal I get lumped in as a democrat. Even though my stances on economics are far more conservative. I try to be nice to people and help them out when needed. I try to look for the good in people, and will give most people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise to me. I volunteered at a food pantry for a while but started to get jaded. My wife keeps me grounded and even at 55 this old dog is still learning new things. Without her calming influence I'd of probably come in here like that dks53593 person did. I may come off as being disrespectful, not my intention. This is honestly the politest I've ever stayed in a prolonged discussion about religion before. I guess the big thing for me is that when I do something nice for someone I'm not doing it to try to curry favor with any god, just because I want to help people. I have no problem with same sex marriages and I'm pro-choice, pretty liberal views. Then again I'm pro death penalty and think pretty much all drugs (aside from PCP type stuff) should be legalized, and I believe in open carry, yet I don't own a gun. My wife has a couple. I personally don't use anything besides alcohol. The few times I've tried the pot I've turned into a raging, violent, a$$. Even worse than normal!

[2nd_chance]

I stay pretty busy with satan worshipping on Mondays, golf league on Tuesdays, child sacrifice meetings on Thursdays, Friday night is date night. You know pretty normal stuff.

Is this like the three things, one is a lie thing except four things and one is a lie? I'm guessing that you don't play golf on Tuesdays!

Good to hear your story.

[Wayne Evans]

A combination of empathy, logic, and reason. Throw in a dash of early childhood memories in which I experienced conditions where those traits were lacking, add a very aggressive desire to avoid similar situations. Let simmer for three or more decades, and you've got me.

That makes some sense.
Although, I didn't express those specifics in my original response back on page 1.

To each their own works for me.
I'll respect anyone's right to have their belief system whether I think it's lofty, delusional, self serving or elitist.

I'd guess we all have our own personal 'emotional comforter' in some form to help get us through our daily lives.
Life is hard....life is not fair....but, life is pretty cool.

Have a great day....

[thedickus]

@thedickus -- by the way, is that your home gym in your avi? I was wondering if public gyms were open in Illinois. I've home gyming for about 5 years and don't think I could go back.

I updated my home gym thread pictures. That's what brought me to this forum to begin with was the home gym discussion. I started posting my workouts in the over 35 workout journals and then this thread got my attention.
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1632857623

[2nd_chance]

I updated my home gym thread pictures. That's what brought me to this forum to begin with was the home gym discussion. I started posting my workouts in the over 35 workout journals and then this thread got my attention.
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1632857623

Very nice setup. This is mine. We basically bought up the equipment from a small commercial gym that was closing. It’s hard to get it all in on one picture but this is it. God has blessed me

[Wayne Evans]

Very nice setup. This is mine.

Excellent....
Yourself and thedickus have some damn fine looking workout rooms and equipment.

Where's deadwoodgregg?........maybe he'll chime in here too.

Back to topic....great pics.

[2nd_chance]

I'd guess we all have our own personal 'emotional comforter' in some form to help get us through our daily lives.

Is yours bacon, Wayne?

[supramax]

Is yours bacon, Wayne?

You want to keep this thread going, do ya?

So, have you thought out this eternity in Heaven thing as far as not working out for eternity?

Or does God have a gym?

[mtpockets]

Nice home gyms guys, some of the best I have seen. Great job!

[Wayne Evans]

Is yours bacon, Wayne?

Ha....you busted me!

Along with 'bacon'?.
My other 'emotional comforters?...I like to write/record my own music, I like to study ancient history and other sciences.
Others may like to paint, read romance novels (shudder) or dive into the organized religion of their choice. (over 4K of those to choose from)
To each their own philosophy and life path.

In thinking about it, I'll be 74 shortly and still wonder how I got this far.
I just thank (insert preferred imaginary entity here) for allowing the creation of 'bacon'.

Still going strong David.

Weekend is upon us weed hoppers.....disfrutar.