p.ts out there.. gaining mass while on a mass building program but a carb deficit?

[El Elyon]

^^again very true as the process slows just like I said, it's very hard to just have both things going on when one requires a deficit and one requires a surplus

Apologies but i think that's flawed.

The SURPLUS needed to build muscle CREATES the DEFICIT needed to burn fat.

[Palermo1]

futuredbny: You can loose weight and put on lean muscle mass. Now the reality of it is the vast majorityof people don't have the time or mental forited to do it. Its nice to look on paper and say this will work its another to do it.
Its not about reduced calorie intake any one who says its that simple is simply not understanding how protiens, carb and fats digest and the caloric energy it takes to digest and transpor them. I blam it on to many people reading fitness mags.
The best wya to look at it you want to know the nutritional value of the calories your taking in.
If it was as simple as a calorie is a calorie then you should be able to gain or loose muscle mass and fat mass by eating twinkes or ho ho's so long as you don't go over your caloric limit.

Not a very good argument considering ho hos and twinkies provide very little micro-nutritional value or protein. Even if you eat the correct Macro-nutrients it is quite hard to gain muscle lose fat. Not sure what the confusion is here?

[Palermo1]

Of course losing fat whilst gaining muscle is possible!

Say i need 3500 cals to fuel, recover and repair my body for that day. I eat 2500 cals because i want to use the 10lbs of fat (or 35,000 calories) as a fuel source too. I eat 2500, my body takes the extra 1000 from the 35,000 i have stored and voila! = I am recover, repaired and have used up 1000 cals of my 35,000 stored.

I don't see what the confusion is about?

I stayed at 185lbs over 8 months. But my bf changed from 24% to 15%. Of course its slower the more muscular and leaner we are but it still happens.

Cause u was fat and the fat transfered into excess energy needed to build muscle. Not sure what you're trying to say here. This is common sense. I believe the argument is about people who are fairly lean already and have been training for several years and not juicing.

Not sure what the confusion is about?

[Cytrainer913]

Say i need 3500 cals to fuel, recover and repair my body for that day. I eat 2500 cals because i want to use the 10lbs of fat (or 35,000 calories) as a fuel source too. I eat 2500, my body takes the extra 1000 from the 35,000 i have stored and voila! = I am recover, repaired and have used up 1000 cals of my 35,000 stored.

In the above statement your body is going to know that the 1000 cals it will take from the body will all be fat, not a chance! You cleaned up your foods to the point there was less fat going in, and healthier things were going on inside and the better hormones were working from within, like GH and test, no cortisol. Your workouts were also an aid in the acute reactions going on to change the body as a whole. If you numbers that you are taking in aren't the best ratios for your body type, then bodyfat will not drop that easy! You did well with your tracking of your foods and i bet this helped out on how you dropped the bodyfat. There are so many more processes that at work on the inside than it being that easy, but keep the good work up.

[bigballin6161]

I chose to stop listening to you once you mentioned the use of supplements and the use of supplements during and post-workout. Any credibility you had just went out the window.

You mean your credibility just went out the window. If you don't understand the importance of what you take during these times, especially when trying to gain muscle while losing fat then you obviously have never done it or have any clue whatsoever on how to do it.

[bigballin6161]

Cause u was fat and the fat transfered into excess energy needed to build muscle. Not sure what you're trying to say here. This is common sense. I believe the argument is about people who are fairly lean already and have been training for several years and not juicing.

Not sure what the confusion is about?

If you know what you are doing it is easier to gain muscle while leaner than if you are fat. You are more insulin sensitive plus your body is able to process nutrients more efficiently.

[bbrock293]

You mean your credibility just went out the window. If you don't understand the importance of what you take during these times, especially when trying to gain muscle while losing fat then you obviously have never done it or have any clue whatsoever on how to do it.

Can you elaborate on what supplement someone would need during training and immediately post training to allow them to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Also, please provide some proof that such supplement and supplement timing would allow this to happen. While you're at it, please explain how my credibility went out the window for challenging you on this ridiculous statement. Most likely you won't respond, or you will just dodge the question in it's entirety and say that I am stupid and know nothing. You made the ignorant statement, now explain it.

[Palermo1]

Can you elaborate on what supplement someone would need during training and immediately post training to allow them to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Also, please provide some proof that such supplement and supplement timing would allow this to happen. While you're at it, please explain how my credibility went out the window for challenging you on this ridiculous statement. Most likely you won't respond, or you will just dodge the question in it's entirety and say that I am stupid and know nothing. You made the ignorant statement, now explain it.

inb4 BCAA

nb4 the lawlz

[bigballin6161]

inb4 BCAA

nb4 the lawlz

Actually your right BCAA is one of them.

During workout- BCAA around 40g=that will depend on BW .44g/kg I believe
- beta alanine+ creatine that is also individual dosage. Some people need more some need less depends how Fast twitch they are.

Post workout -50g whey isololate
20g glutamine
10g glycine

You will lose fat and gain muscle with this protocol if your diet and training are right.

[CertifiedMuscle]

Actually your right BCAA is one of them.

During workout- BCAA around 40g=that will depend on BW .44g/kg I believe

Holy crap....40g of BCAA? Just DURING workout? You do realize that someone consuming about 200g of protein per day only gets about 35g of BCAA in the entire day, right?
Multiple studies show that consuming more than 4.2g of Leucine in a 4-6 hour period provides no additional protein synthesis for hypertrophy. Consuming more than 5g of a BCAA supplement pre/post workout is just a waste of money.

[bigballin6161]

Holy crap....40g of BCAA? Just DURING workout? You do realize that someone consuming about 200g of protein per day only gets about 35g of BCAA in the entire day, right?
Multiple studies show that consuming more than 4.2g of Leucine in a 4-6 hour period provides no additional protein synthesis for hypertrophy. Consuming more than 5g of a BCAA supplement pre/post workout is just a waste of money.

You need way more than 5g of BCAA that aint gonna do ****. Anything under 20g is a waste. Why dont you try what I just outlined. Remember that researchers and studies are usually many years behind what good strength coaches know. Thats a fact.

[a7stringkilla]

This is all so ****ing stupid!!! Threads like this are the reason I dont post in this section. O.P., IF you pass your ACE exam and someone asks you this same question, how are you possibly gonna be able to answer it after reading all this ****?!?! My advise to you would be to bury your nose in some books and learn for yourself because Im sure theres a trainer in your area who can answer it.

[popupwindow]

Actually your right BCAA is one of them.

During workout- BCAA around 40g=that will depend on BW .44g/kg I believe
- beta alanine+ creatine that is also individual dosage. Some people need more some need less depends how Fast twitch they are.

Post workout -50g whey isololate
20g glutamine
10g glycine

You will lose fat and gain muscle with this protocol if your diet and training are right.

You can always spot a poliquin disciple...

[futurebdny]

This is all so ****ing stupid!!! Threads like this are the reason I dont post in this section. O.P., IF you pass your ACE exam and someone asks you this same question, how are you possibly gonna be able to answer it after reading all this ****?!?! My advise to you would be to bury your nose in some books and learn for yourself because Im sure theres a trainer in your area who can answer it.

yea its pretty hard w all the bulll**** going around here lol, nd thanks man im trying to but once again is hard. im still studying nd ive learned alot but im no pro by any means

[tumtum]

well now that i know i was doing it all wrong.. if anyone's not doing anything for the arnold in '15... i'll be winning it so if you're free.. stop by and grab a pic

[Palermo1]

well now that i know i was doing it all wrong.. if anyone's not doing anything for the arnold in '15... i'll be winning it so if you're free.. stop by and grab a pic

You will have some competition . By the time I'm done with this newly found scientific proven to work protocol I'll be 250pounds .05% BF. At 5'5"

[tumtum]

You will have some competition . By the time I'm done with this newly found scientific proven to work protocol I'll be 250pounds .05% BF. At 5'5"

why so fat brah? you know u can burn it as u build it? so you shouldn't get slack like that..

.o2% is as fat as u need to be.. i'm sure there is some supplementation to keep your organs functioning at that level of conditioning

[bbrock293]

Actually your right BCAA is one of them.

During workout- BCAA around 40g=that will depend on BW .44g/kg I believe
- beta alanine+ creatine that is also individual dosage. Some people need more some need less depends how Fast twitch they are.

Post workout -50g whey isololate
20g glutamine
10g glycine

You will lose fat and gain muscle with this protocol if your diet and training are right.

It has been proven that there is NO anabolic window. There is no need for a PWO protein shake. Glutamine is also completely worthless. There is science behind beta alanine and creatine helping workouts so I will give you that. However, BCAA's are worthless. What do you think happens to the aminos that are already in your system when youp begin the workout? If you eat anywhere close to the time you workout, there is no need for BCAA's. I am still back at the old question, how would these help someone to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You are living in 1992. I am assuming you are a millionaire with this tremendous discovery! Please see the following links and leave 1992.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22107883
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21222129
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/
http://www.leangains.com/2011/04/cri...d-on-meal.html

[futurebdny]

[QUOTE=bbrock293;881003381]It has been proven that there is NO anabolic window. There is no need for a PWO protein shake. Glutamine is also completely worthless. There is science behind beta alanine and creatine helping workouts so I will give you that. However, BCAA's are worthless. What do you think happens to the aminos that are already in your system when youp begin the workout? If you eat anywhere close to the time you workout, there is no need for BCAA's. I am still back at the old question, how would these help someone to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You are living in 1992. I am assuming you are a millionaire with this tremendous discovery! Please see the following links and leave 1992.


im sure these supps dnt really help you "build" muscle but do they help in recovery??? which can make you workout the same musclegroup sooner resulting in a better stimulus for muscle growth...qoute me if im wrong

[CertifiedMuscle]

You need way more than 5g of BCAA that aint gonna do ****. Anything under 20g is a waste. Why dont you try what I just outlined. Remember that researchers and studies are usually many years behind what good strength coaches know. Thats a fact.

You are so full of nonsense. A lot of strength coaches use out-dated information, but still seem to get results because their approach is the equivalent of banging down a door with a sledgehammer instead of using a key. Read this and then we'll talk more.

[bbrock293]

[QUOTE=futurebdny;881036321]

It has been proven that there is NO anabolic window. There is no need for a PWO protein shake. Glutamine is also completely worthless. There is science behind beta alanine and creatine helping workouts so I will give you that. However, BCAA's are worthless. What do you think happens to the aminos that are already in your system when youp begin the workout? If you eat anywhere close to the time you workout, there is no need for BCAA's. I am still back at the old question, how would these help someone to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You are living in 1992. I am assuming you are a millionaire with this tremendous discovery! Please see the following links and leave 1992.


im sure these supps dnt really help you "build" muscle but do they help in recovery??? which can make you workout the same musclegroup sooner resulting in a better stimulus for muscle growth...qoute me if im wrong

He stated that you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time by using certain supplements. He then stated this was glutamine (proven to be worthless) creatine, BCAA's (proven to be worthless), and protein. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they help you to recover faster (they do not), you think that if you work the same muscle a little bit sooner that you will build muscle and lose fat? Me doing biceps and back twice in a week vs once will cause muscle gain and fat loss? You absolutely are wrong and that makes no sense. Get it together.

[bigballin6161]

Ok you guys are right. You can't put on muscle while losing fat. I like trainers like you, you guys are good for business.

[KyleAaron]

As always, I welcome non-anonymous coaches and trainers telling us about the results they've helped their athletes and clients get.

Anonymous people calling me "brah" or endlessly referencing studies without any actual client results demonstrated (oh hi there Lyle) are not so helpful.

[bigballin6161]

As always, I welcome non-anonymous coaches and trainers telling us about the results they've helped their athletes and clients get.

Anonymous people calling me "brah" or endlessly referencing studies without any actual client results demonstrated (oh hi there Lyle) are not so helpful.

Ok man I do not want to argue anymore. Can you make someone lose fat while gaining muscle? Its a yes or no question.

[popupwindow]

As always, I welcome non-anonymous coaches and trainers telling us about the results they've helped their athletes and clients get.

Anonymous people calling me "brah" or endlessly referencing studies without any actual client results demonstrated (oh hi there Lyle) are not so helpful.

C'mon Kyle, Lyle doesn't train people and gets out of his depth talking on certain topics, but he's good at what he does for the most part and people who follow his protocols get the results they're promised. They're not for everyone, but you'd be a fool not to try and learn something from him. Results 1(http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the...-loss-handbook) 2(http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the...n-fat-solution) 3(http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20). Rip and Dan John, two people you're a big fan of make regular goofs too, but that doesn't de-value their other advice. No one is 100% good advice, they all have topics they understand and topics they don't, just some know what they don't know better than others.

Ok man I do not want to argue anymore. Can you make someone lose fat while gaining muscle? Its a yes or no question.

Yes, if they're a novice, detrained (previously at a better bodycomp, see 'Body for Life' style reverse transformations), very overweight, on a complex cyclical diet (CKD etc) or on drugs. Is it a good idea? Depends on the context, time frame, goals etc. Always remember too that just because you CAN do something, that doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.

[JulianBee]

Wow this thread is getting out of hand. OP I answered your question in my first post. As far as gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time, we could all benefit from being more open minded. Not everything related to the human body is so cut and dry, black or white. If one naturally trained individual out of 300 million can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, then it is possible. It may be unrealilistic to expect these kind of results for yourself or your clients, but that doesn't make it impossible. Extremely flipping rare, but possible.

[bbrock293]

Ok you guys are right. You can't put on muscle while losing fat. I like trainers like you, you guys are good for business.

I never said this. Stay focused on the topic at hand. Looks like we are done though. It's been real.

[futurebdny]

[QUOTE=bbrock293;881130271]

He stated that you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time by using certain supplements. He then stated this was glutamine (proven to be worthless) creatine, BCAA's (proven to be worthless), and protein. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they help you to recover faster (they do not), you think that if you work the same muscle a little bit sooner that you will build muscle and lose fat? Me doing biceps and back twice in a week vs once will cause muscle gain and fat loss? You absolutely are wrong and that makes no sense. Get it together.

i never stated anything bout building muscle and losing fat at the same time. i was just saying why supplements might work for you! if ur too dumb to even comprehend a normal sentence then you should check ur brain. nd yes u can build muscle while losing fat! do some research

[bbrock293]

[QUOTE=futurebdny;883496371]

i never stated anything bout building muscle and losing fat at the same time. i was just saying why supplements might work for you! if ur too dumb to even comprehend a normal sentence then you should check ur brain. nd yes u can build muscle while losing fat! do some research

I am aware of this, that is why the 1st sentence is "HE stated that you can build muscle and lose muscle...". I guess you missed the he part. I can't comprehend a sentence?

Where did I say you can't build and lose at the same time? I know you can. I was simply stating that supplements would not help the cause. Idiot.

[brodygeorge]

his post includes the phrase "calorie deficit". therefore, no you cannot lose physical fat while gaining muscle unless, as stated, you are new or on the juice.
no more bro science.
/thread