Mark Rippetoe explains the main reason why we (the USA) suck at olympic weightlifting

[bcop]

No cliffs. It is a long read, but it is definitely worth it.

http://startingstrength.com/articles...h_rippetoe.pdf

[schabowy90]

Glad to see he's got a lot of awesome WLing champions to back it up.

[scarboro]

Except there are US lifters that can easily match foreign lifters in terms of strength yet the results don't compare. Kendrick Farris is probably stronger than most if not all of his competitors.

[runtocatch]

I know nothing bout olympic weightlifting but that man needs to seriously just go away. BRB gonna phone Klokov up and tell him he needs to be deadlifting more.

[JiP]

I know nothing bout olympic weightlifting but that man needs to seriously just go away. BRB gonna phone Klokov up and tell him he needs to be deadlifting more.

Klokov actually devotes only 1 session a week to the O-lifts and everything else to basic strength lifts like squats/pulls/presses etc.

[J.L.C.]

Klokov actually devotes only 1 session a week to the O-lifts and everything else to basic strength lifts like squats/pulls/presses etc.

Not according to his YouTube channel

[fraverdenstreet]

i wanted to kill myself while reading that article

[JiP]

i wanted to kill myself while reading that article

Maybe you should stop dedicating so much time to all these fancy lifts and your measly 200 squat and do some real lifts?

[tfk44]

Funny how Rippetoe specifically mentions Shane Hamman, who is basically a case study in why he's wrong. US lifters have plenty of power, what they lack is technique.

[WHT_LIGHTNING]

In my brief time in olympic lifting, I think Rip is right.


Wait, seriously, I think he might be right that a lot of local and maybe regional level lifters, hell maybe even some of the people at the lower end of the national level do need to get stronger. They have a great technique, but the strength just is not there.

Not that I am that strong, but I have a lot of technique work to just get my oly lifts to the level of my strength but in the long run, I need a lot of both, lol


BUT

to say that about our top lifters is grossly inaccurate

Mendes (yeah, I said it) squatted freaking 800lbs, pretty strong. Shankle has squatted I think 300kgs, Farris is super strong. I have seen vids of Fleming and Wilson squatting 230kg for reps (3 or 5, can't remember)

[nova6868]

Klokov actually devotes only 1 session a week to the O-lifts and everything else to basic strength lifts like squats/pulls/presses etc.

Interesting. This directly contradicts everything I've read about the modern Russian programming.

[runtocatch]

Interesting. This directly contradicts everything I've read about the modern Russian programming.

Thats because its not true.

[chigiskov]

Thats because its not true.

Can't believe people still believe this

[runtocatch]

Can't believe people still believe this

Neither can I.

[Torrtrefireto]

He tried to say this same stuff in a podcast with Shane there and big guy just sat there bertstare.jpging the entire time at how stupid the concept is. The US lifters probably aren't the strongest in the world, but they are sure a lot stronger than their placings/qualifications demonstrate. I'd bet if you did a macropoll of every lifter in the world the average American's squat/FS/press:classic lifts ratio would be much bigger than the countries who consistently destroy us

[bcop]

Funny how Rippetoe specifically mentions Shane Hamman, who is basically a case study in why he's wrong. US lifters have plenty of power, what they lack is technique.

If you read the article you would see that shane did not train the "powerlifting lifts" for max while he was at the olympic training center. He was not as strong when he was in the olympics as he was when he was a powerlifter. Still stronger than 99.9% of the population, but not 800 squat strong.

[tfk44]

If you read the article you would see that shane did not train the "powerlifting lifts" for max while he was at the olympic training center. He was not as strong when he was in the olympics as he was when he was a powerlifter. Still stronger than 99.9% of the population, but not 800 squat strong.

Slow strength was never the issue, watch any of his lifts and you'll see that. He had plenty of power left in the tank, but his technique was holding him back. Increasing his slow strength further wouldn't have done a thing to help that.

Olympic lifting isn't powerlifting, it's not just a strength game. You have to have speed, technique, and flexibility as well, none of which matter for PL. That's why an OL athlete can go over to PL, forget about those things, and put up big numbers relatively fast whereas most powerlifters have to spend a significant amount of time working on flexibility, speed, and technique to be halfway effective at OL.

[bcop]

Slow strength was never the issue, watch any of his lifts and you'll see that. He had plenty of power left in the tank, but his technique was holding him back. Increasing his slow strength further wouldn't have done a thing to help that.

Olympic lifting isn't powerlifting, it's not just a strength game. You have to have speed, technique, and flexibility as well, none of which matter for PL. That's why an OL athlete can go over to PL, forget about those things, and put up big numbers relatively fast whereas most powerlifters have to spend a significant amount of time working on flexibility, speed, and technique to be halfway effective at OL.

Of course there is technique in oly lifting. But the bottom line is that the people with the best technique do not necessarily win at oly lifting, it is the strongest people that win. The point of the article is that there is too much emphasis placed on technique, and not enough on strength. And the best way to develop strength is by improving on the slow lifts.

Shane would have won in the olympics if he was stronger, even with his technique being what it was. Since he did not train the slow lifts in preparation for the olympics, he was weaker on the platform at the olympics than you realize.

[bcop]

Also keep in mind that what we have been doing for the last 30 years has obviously not been working. And what we have been doing was focusing on technique at the expense of strength.

[Torrtrefireto]

Slow strength was never the issue, watch any of his lifts and you'll see that. He had plenty of power left in the tank, but his technique was holding him back. Increasing his slow strength further wouldn't have done a thing to help that.

Olympic lifting isn't powerlifting, it's not just a strength game. You have to have speed, technique, and flexibility as well, none of which matter for PL. That's why an OL athlete can go over to PL, forget about those things, and put up big numbers relatively fast whereas most powerlifters have to spend a significant amount of time working on flexibility, speed, and technique to be halfway effective at OL.

All of those things matter for PL, just because its not as sweet of a science as Olympic lifting doesn't mean its a brute strength joke

Of course there is technique in oly lifting. But the bottom line is that the people with the best technique do not necessarily win at oly lifting, it is the strongest people that win. The point of the article is that there is too much emphasis placed on technique, and not enough on strength. And the best way to develop strength is by improving on the slow lifts.

Shane would have won in the olympics if he was stronger, even with his technique being what it was. Since he did not train the slow lifts in preparation for the olympics, he was weaker on the platform at the olympics than you realize.

Also keep in mind that what we have been doing for the last 30 years has obviously not been working. And what we have been doing was focusing on technique at the expense of strength.

Do you have any evidence to back up any of these claims:
USA weightlifting programs focus on technique more than strength when compared to more successful weightlifting countries
The strongest person wins

Other than an article written by someone who has never coached anyone to high level weightlifting success? Because they are not true in any sense.

[nova6868]

Some of you don't seem to grasp that slow strength does not directly translate into explosive strength. They have similarities and some amount of cross-over... but they are not the same skill.

Have you trained Olympic lifting for a significant period of time?

[chigiskov]

Also keep in mind that what we have been doing for the last 30 years has obviously not been working. And what we have been doing was focusing on technique at the expense of strength.

I'm not sure there's any credible evidence for this claim. As has been pointed out there are some seriously freaky strong squatters/pullers/pressers in US weightlifting.

[JiP]

Thats because its not true.

Can't believe people still believe this

Ugh, i thought that was just well known about Klokov but cleary am wrong, plz educate me.

[tfk44]

All of those things matter for PL, just because its not as sweet of a science as Olympic lifting doesn't mean its a brute strength joke

Of course, I'm being overly simplistic, but you understood the basic point. OP does not sound as though he has any OL experience or knowledge, but then again, neither does Rippetoe in that article.

[chigiskov]

Ugh, i thought that was just well known about Klokov but cleary am wrong, plz educate me.

Okay I'm not saying you are wrong definitely, but the chance of that being true (and I'm aware he said that in an interview, where he may or may not have been trolling lol or talking about his off season training) are slim to none.

Check this page out for instance: http://www.allthingsgym.com/2012/04/...kayev-profile/

Keep in mind Klokov and the rest of the Russian team train there as well, presumably in the same manner. They joke about Akkaev being allowed to "sleep in a little" but that's the only difference in planning - 2 x training every day, 2 hours per session.

Other proof: Klokov's youtube channel lol

[fraverdenstreet]

im ready to move to russia

[GoJu]

Except there are US lifters that can easily match foreign lifters in terms of strength yet the results don't compare. Kendrick Farris is probably stronger than most if not all of his competitors.

His brute strength is definetly up there but he's sure as hell not stronger than Lu Yong.

[runtocatch]

Olympic lifting isn't powerlifting, it's not just a strength game. You have to have speed, technique, and flexibility as well, none of which matter for PL.

I understand what you are trying to say and it most definately takes more speed, technique, and flexibility to be and Olympic lifter but you most definately need all three of the above to be a successful powerlifter too to some degree.

[runtocatch]

Of course, I'm being overly simplistic, but you understood the basic point. OP does not sound as though he has any OL experience or knowledge, but then again, neither does Rippetoe in that article.

Should have read this before I posted. Sorry bout that.

[Torrtrefireto]

Of course, I'm being overly simplistic, but you understood the basic point. OP does not sound as though he has any OL experience or knowledge, but then again, neither does Rippetoe in that article.

Agreed. The basic premise carries over to PL also actually. Americans PLers focus too much on strength not enough on perfection of movement, and that is why we are almost as bad internationally PL'ing as we are OL'ing